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Fitz VonHeise
Eye Bee Em
Stellar Defense Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.28 00:12:00 - [151]
 

Originally by: Malshuraan
Edited by: Malshuraan on 27/11/2009 03:44:58
Your a legend! Just a small question would't using Lasors be more powerful as they get bonus from the tower? and Cant battleships come though connecting class2 wormholes?
Yes use lasers instead.
And those who have lived in a C1 tell us if BS's can get in.

Michael Caldar
DangerZone Inc.
Posted - 2009.12.03 12:53:00 - [152]
 

Just wondering how often POSes get attacked in WH space (thinking about Classes 1-3)?

My reasoning (which is by no means perfect) would be:

- ok, we hit it with everything we've got... oh bummer, now it's in re-inforced mode (invincible)...
- oh bummer, now we have to wait until DT...
- oh bummer, now the wormhole we came through is about to collapse (too many ships came through)
- oh bummer now the whole attacking fleet finds itself out of ammo and many-many jumps away from their "home base"...

What's the point in seeking out/attacking a POS in a wormhole? No moon mining, so you're not trying to "get in the profitable action", the bulk of what the tower will drop (if any) would be the fuel...ugh

Fitz VonHeise
Eye Bee Em
Stellar Defense Alliance
Posted - 2009.12.03 18:49:00 - [153]
 

Originally by: Michael Caldar
Just wondering how often POSes get attacked in WH space (thinking about Classes 1-3)?
There are more attacked then you might expect.

I know that WI made a point of searching out WH's with the expressed purpose of popping POS's for what would drop. (Or searching for Orca/Rorquals to kill) If you have no stong in your POS then you've made it easy for them. If you do have stong then they have to dedicate a team of BS's to stay in your hole to kill your POS after it comes out of reinforcement. (So WH dwellers should think about making any WI hole go critical as soon as you find it)

Class 5-6 have another problem: Other WH corps that can bring in a Dread to kill your POS. I've read that there are certain corps that can and have done this to other WH dwellers. Usually it is more because they don't like the other corp... but sometimes it is just for what can drop. Corps can make billions in WH's and if you don't take the stuff out... what can drop makes killing a POS worth while.

I've gone into some C6's and have found multiple Carriers and Dreads though. So good luck killing those POS's off! Smile

If you have stuff that you donít want to loseÖ then make sure your POS has so many defenses they donít want to mess with you.

All our POS's have so many ecm that most ships brought wouldnít even be able to shoot or rep each other.

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2009.12.03 19:23:00 - [154]
 

Projectile ammo has changed, so you might want to top-off your guns!

* Small AutoCannon Battery (750 m3 / 0.0125): 60,000 rounds
* Small Artillery Battery (50 m3 / 0.0125): 4,000 rounds
* Medium AutoCannon Battery (1,000 m3 / 0.0250): 40,000 rounds
* Medium Artillery Battery (65 m3 / 0.0250): 2,600 rounds

For AutoCannons on a RoF bonused tower, that's over 65 hours of shooting! Artillery lasts only about 13 hours though.



Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2009.12.03 19:41:00 - [155]
 

Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 03/12/2009 19:41:15
Originally by: Fitz VonHeise
Originally by: Malshuraan
Edited by: Malshuraan on 27/11/2009 03:44:58
Your a legend! Just a small question would't using Lasors be more powerful as they get bonus from the tower? and Cant battleships come though connecting class2 wormholes?
Yes use lasers instead.
And those who have lived in a C1 tell us if BS's can get in.

In the months I lived in a C2, just this week we had our first outgoing C6. Usually higher class wormholes are incoming, so bigger ships can't get in.

So yes it is possible, but rather rare, and risky for the big ship to enter a system it may not be able to get out of.


Ludacrys
Posted - 2009.12.17 13:07:00 - [156]
 

what defenses would you put on a caldari large tower running a simple reaction + complex reaction on the same tower?
ive got:
1 simple reactor
1 complex reactor
5 silos

im thinking:
online:
8x ECM
2x energy neut
1x warp disrupt

and either:
7x medium pulses
or
13x small railguns

what do you think?
also what guns should i anchor but keep offline?

Fitz VonHeise
Eye Bee Em
Stellar Defense Alliance
Posted - 2009.12.17 19:03:00 - [157]
 

Originally by: Ludacrys
what defenses would you put on a caldari large tower
You need to specify locatation of the tower.

In low sec?
In 0.0 space that alliance has secured?
In unsecured 0.0 space.
In a Worm Hole? (C1-C3 or C4-C6?)

Each can have a bit different setup.

Ludacrys
Posted - 2009.12.17 22:44:00 - [158]
 

its low sec

Ludacrys
Posted - 2009.12.19 10:54:00 - [159]
 

bump for info :(

Viktor Villiance
Caldari
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2009.12.20 03:08:00 - [160]
 

Sticky please? This is absurdly useful.

Fitz VonHeise
Eye Bee Em
Stellar Defense Alliance
Posted - 2009.12.22 22:35:00 - [161]
 

Edited by: Fitz VonHeise on 22/12/2009 22:57:29

Originally by: Ludacrys
its low sec
sorry... busy for holiday.

Here is one that I came up with. What is listed is after you offline every other reaction array. And yes you want some extras of all items... and more of the disrupters too.


Caldari Large Control Tower

2x Energy Neutralizing Battery (Online)
2x Large Artillery Battery (Online)
10x Medium Artillery Battery (Offline)
2x Medium AutoCannon Battery (Online)

Explosion Dampening Array (Online)
Photon Scattering Array (Online)

4x Ion Field Projection Battery (Online)
3x Phase Inversion Battery (Online)
3x Spatial Destabilization Battery (Online)
10x White Noise Generation Battery (Online)
Warp Disruption Battery (Online)
2x Warp Scrambling Battery (Online)
----------------------------------------------
CPU Usage: 1650 / 7500 (22.00%)
PG Usage: 2730000 / 2750000 (99.27%)
----------------------------------------------
Fitting generated using My POS by Cassandra's Light.


Caldari towers are light on grid so are not going to have as many guns online as other towers. If you in low sec you can expect to be attacked by dreads and you will need a fleet to save this tower if someone really wants to take it out. And if they come in BS's you will need to offline your large arty and online the medium ones.

Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.12.22 22:42:00 - [162]
 

Originally by: Fitz VonHeise

pos fitting




I don't know if you put enough White Noise arrays on there.

Fitz VonHeise
Eye Bee Em
Stellar Defense Alliance
Posted - 2009.12.22 22:53:00 - [163]
 

Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: Fitz VonHeise

pos fitting
I don't know if you put enough White Noise arrays on there.
Your right... Smile

A caldari tower would not be my first choice for a tower that might be attacked but White noise will stop some of the afk amarr bs's with lasers.

Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.12.22 22:57:00 - [164]
 

Originally by: Fitz VonHeise
Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: Fitz VonHeise

pos fitting
I don't know if you put enough White Noise arrays on there.
Your right... Smile

A caldari tower would not be my first choice for a tower that might be attacked but White noise will stop some of the afk amarr bs's with lasers.


Is that really what low-sec pirates do these days? AFK anything? Wouldn't that be a mite... dumb?

Dalia Cloud
Posted - 2009.12.29 11:43:00 - [165]
 

Small question, can't find a way to do it...
When anchoring is it possible to rotate the structures inside the POS ?

Sorry about this slight *off-topic*
Thanks

Paraiyan
Caldari
Bukah Innovations
Posted - 2009.12.30 01:52:00 - [166]
 

Do warp scrambling batteries turn off MWDs like their module counterparts?

Ahro Thariori
Posted - 2010.01.01 19:43:00 - [167]
 

Edited by: Ahro Thariori on 02/01/2010 11:07:22
Originally by: Fitz VonHeise

High Sec Death Star (W/Hardeners)

Large Amarr Control Tower

2x Advanced Mobile Laboratory (Online)
2x Mobile Laboratory (Online)
Ballistic Deflection ArFar Wandererray (Online)
Explosion Dampening Array (Online)
10x Ion Field Projection Battery (Online)
10x Phase Inversion Battery (Online)
10x Spatial Destabilization Battery (Online)
20x White Noise Generation Battery (Online)
10x Medium Artillery Battery (Online)
4x Medium AutoCannon Battery (Online)
2x Warp Disruption Battery (Online)
4x Warp Scrambling Battery (Online)



So that are 70 batteries you online when war-decced and offline afterwards ^= 2x 3h of tedious mechanics. Wouldnt it be more time efficient to field just a few batteries for small-corp wardecs and take down the tower for larger decs?

Originally by: Fitz VonHeise

With only 2 pos gunners you might kill a few ships but if 30-50 BS's attack your POS it is going to go down



What about timezone issues? So far, everytime our POS has been attacked we were asleep. That makes zero gunners. In Reinforced though (when one might make time) all that shiny ECM (and even worse: warp scramblers) isnt available. Only your 16 guns. These wont kill a large RR'ed BS gang, will they?

Ahro Thariori
Posted - 2010.01.02 20:08:00 - [168]
 

Originally by: Tau Cabalander

Reports from testers on Sisi indicate:

* Battery range is measured from the tower.



So it can be infered that there is no need to put guns neatly on all sides of the tower (rectangle, hexagon, pole, pyramid, cube, ... style)? How comes that everyone does it if it has no effect?
And what about ECM batteries? The same?

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2010.01.02 21:46:00 - [169]
 

Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 02/01/2010 22:09:56
Originally by: Ahro Thariori
Originally by: Tau Cabalander

Reports from testers on Sisi indicate:

* Battery range is measured from the tower.



So it can be infered that there is no need to put guns neatly on all sides of the tower (rectangle, hexagon, pole, pyramid, cube, ... style)? How comes that everyone does it if it has no effect?
And what about ECM batteries? The same?

You want to spread them out so that an attacking fleet doesn't just warp-in and smartbomb them (not an issue in hisec of course). Otherwise to force them to move around rather than to be in optimal range of everything.

Also nobody has verified if tracking is from the tower, as far as I know at least.

ECM batteries have a 200 km optimal, and 100 km fall-off. Players have a 249 km hard target-lock limit. If it is on the grid, an ECM battery can reach it.


Fitz VonHeise
Eye Bee Em
Stellar Defense Alliance
Posted - 2010.01.03 02:17:00 - [170]
 

Originally by: Ahro Thariori
Wouldnt it be more time efficient to field just a few batteries for small-corp wardecs and take down the tower for larger decs?
I never take down a pos once wardec'ed. They will probably be watching for you to offline it and scoop it before you. I would rather them take the time to kill it then "give" it to them. Razz

Fitz VonHeise
Eye Bee Em
Stellar Defense Alliance
Posted - 2010.01.03 02:24:00 - [171]
 

Edited by: Fitz VonHeise on 03/01/2010 02:38:28

Originally by: Ahro Thariori
What about timezone issues? So far, everytime our POS has been attacked we were asleep. That makes zero gunners. In Reinforced though (when one might make time) all that shiny ECM (and even worse: warp scramblers) isnt available. Only your 16 guns. These wont kill a large RR'ed BS gang, will they?
True all CPU dependent arrays go offline during reinforcement.

What you are hoping for is for them to not even try to attack knowing they will need to get a LOT of ships (ie bodies) there to be able to shoot... as the ECM will continually be breaking their lock. And even so they will be sitting there for a long time trying to kill this pos. (depending on how many ships they do bring)

Once into reinforcement... you need to go to plan B...

which is either a fleet to catch and kill the ships.. or my one off tanking/warp jamming ship: while your gunners kill the one ship that is caught. If they are shooting at your ships... they are not shooting your tower. (See below post)

If they really want to kill the tower they will.
But you can have fun and take as many with you as you can. Wink

Fitz VonHeise
Eye Bee Em
Stellar Defense Alliance
Posted - 2010.01.03 02:39:00 - [172]
 

When You Donít Have A Large Fleet
Or How To Kill Ships With Just A Few Guys

Depending on how large a group you can get together will depend on how much you can hurt the attackers. If you can put together a 6-8 man BS fleet it is possible to totally wipe out their fleet. You need to be able to warp jam their ships or they will fly off when you target them. (I know by personal experience)


Here Is How To Kill An Enemy Fleet

You need "throwaway" T1 tanking BS's with smart bombs. (Rohks are great as you can have 8 SBs) You do not need to shoot anything with your ships: That is what your POS guns will do.

Many times to take out POS's the enemy fleet will bring Remote Repping BS's. They will rotate close to each other around one Ďanchorí ship. You can use this to your advantage if you have 5-7 ships. If they have been coming around & you know they fly a lot of a certain faction then you setup your BSís with SBs to hit where their resists are weakest. If they fly mostly PvP ships you will hit them in armor & usually explosive or kinetic. If they are bring torp ravens then pick em. You setup tanking BS's that are tanking that same resist that you are attacking. (as all your ship SBs will be hitting your ships too)

So you get your fleet of BS's off at a safe spot. You can make it just offgrid about 1,500k from POS so it is just a short jump. Have them all align to POS. (Yes moving toward POS) The FC/SC will have finger ready to warp fleet to cloaked ship.

Someone at the POS watches the enemy fleet. He waits till the enemy ships start rotating around each other. You get one T1 cloaking guy close to their fleet. What he is going to do is MW drive into the middle of this swirling fleet. So, just before your cloaked ship is uncloaked, he MWDs into middle of enemy fleet & tell BSís to warp to him when he does.

Once your fleet arrives they start SBís. (The enemy drones will insta pop) YARRRR!! Your BS's should be able to get 6-7 smart bombing cycles before they start to die.

Your BSís target & warp jam ships. Have arty start killing what they can. Have a group of 4 guns target one jammed ship & have another group hit a 2nd jammed one. It will require some coordination between ships & gunners but you should melt ships quickly.

There is a very good chance that you will kill most of their ships. This has been used effectively against HAC fleets where 3-4 SBíing ships have totally wiped out a 70-90 man fleet. The concept will work with BS's too if you have enough DPS in the SBís. Those who are good at math can run the numbers to see how many SB BS's you would really need. I am guessing 6-8.


What if you only have 5-8 guys
& most of them are manning the guns?

Again setup a really good tanking SBíing BS. (In fact make 4-6 of them & have them floating inside your POS)

You have your BS guy off at a safe spot & moving towards the tower. You will still need a cloaking ship to get close to their BS's. He called out for your BS to warp to your cloaked ship (move it out of way so it lives).

Once ship lands it jams 1 enemy ship. Your guns on tower target & kill that ship. If your ship is still alive, it jam another: guns kill that ship. Keep going till your BS dies. The other thing that BS does is to wait 10-15 seconds till all drones are attacking then lights off all smart bombs & kills drones. :o)

When the BS diesÖ the BS guy has selected a planet to warp to & clicks the insta warp button at the top of overview screen. (I know most people just ignore those). The guy flys to moon, then fly back to POS to pick up another BS. He goes back to SS & keep doing this, killing their ships one or two off.

Yes it will be a war of attrition. (Insure all BSís) Make your kills count. Make them pay for coming to kill your tower. And have fun doing it!! Twisted Evil

Ahro Thariori
Posted - 2010.01.03 09:19:00 - [173]
 

Originally by: Tau Cabalander
Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 02/01/2010 22:09:56
Originally by: Ahro Thariori
Originally by: Tau Cabalander

Reports from testers on Sisi indicate:

* Battery range is measured from the tower.



So it can be infered that there is no need to put guns neatly on all sides of the tower (rectangle, hexagon, pole, pyramid, cube, ... style)? How comes that everyone does it if it has no effect?

You want to spread them out so that an attacking fleet doesn't just warp-in and smartbomb them (not an issue in hisec of course). Otherwise to force them to move around rather than to be in optimal range of everything.



Sure, spreading out is required. But not "neatly" (in such a geometric fashion that you cover all surrounding space with gun love (if distance was measured from batteries)). Imho, this makes anchoring easier (less planning).

Btw: why isnt smartbombing an issue in hisec? Non-corp alt warping in, thereby triggering Concord? Or a hardcoded mechanic?

Quote:

Also nobody has verified if tracking is from the tower, as far as I know at least.



I am currently voting to wardec my POS corp with an alt corp and I will try to verify what has been said and tracking if I can.

Ahro Thariori
Posted - 2010.01.03 09:24:00 - [174]
 

Edited by: Ahro Thariori on 03/01/2010 09:25:15
Originally by: Fitz VonHeise
Originally by: Ahro Thariori
Wouldnt it be more time efficient to field just a few batteries for small-corp wardecs and take down the tower for larger decs?
I never take down a pos once wardec'ed. They will probably be watching for you to offline it and scoop it before you. I would rather them take the time to kill it then "give" it to them. Razz


I expect them to be sleeping some time during the day. But you are right, I lost a small POS once in that fashion in lowsec after trying gun control (should have gone Sisi).

Porban
Posted - 2010.01.04 00:16:00 - [175]
 

Fitz, I want to setup my own POS in a C2/C3 wormhole - to do some mining and ratting. I think I need to go with a large POS (for the Intensive Refining Array) as it only takes 10 minutes to fill a smaller refining Array - and then you have to wait 1.5 hours for refining to finish.

What setup would you recommend for a two-man corp (me and my alt)? I want to discourage attackers as much as possible as I don't plan on being able to put up much of a defense if attacked.

Apart from defensive ECM batteries etc., the only modules at the POS would be a corp hanger array, a ship assembly array and a refining array.

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2010.01.04 08:27:00 - [176]
 

Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 04/01/2010 08:30:47
Originally by: Porban
Fitz, I want to setup my own POS in a C2/C3 wormhole - to do some mining and ratting. I think I need to go with a large POS (for the Intensive Refining Array) as it only takes 10 minutes to fill a smaller refining Array - and then you have to wait 1.5 hours for refining to finish.

What setup would you recommend for a two-man corp (me and my alt)? I want to discourage attackers as much as possible as I don't plan on being able to put up much of a defense if attacked.

Apart from defensive ECM batteries etc., the only modules at the POS would be a corp hanger array, a ship assembly array and a refining array.

For mining, you really don't want to live in a system, rather be nomadic; mine and move on.

With that in mind, I'd go with a medium tower, and fill the grid with small and medium weapons. Skip ECM and shield hardeners as they are very bulky to haul to the next mining system. Lasers destroy the active crystal when unanchored, so Minmatar with projectile batteries that can be unloaded and moved would be better than Amarr.

If you do plan to stay in one system, then mining the connecting systems is the only way, and because of mass limits you'll need a high class system or you'll pop the wormhole long before you mine out just the ABC.


Ahro Thariori
Posted - 2010.01.04 21:48:00 - [177]
 

preliminary results (thanks to can-flipping):

test setup
large caldari control tower
batteries on both sides
controlled guns
(while I took control no other batteries fired/ecm'ed, but once I released control the AI took over. One corp(but flagged)- osprey killed in action)

warp disruptor batteries
cannot target if ship is farther than 150km from the battery(!) - regardless of tower distance

guns
medium ac:
sig res 400mm
optimal 15
fall-off 63
ammo: 0% range increment

target ship:
sig radius 240mm
speed 0.0 m/s

hits:misses @gun distance (tower distance)
5:35 @78 (tower: 103)
10:30 @141 (tower:103)

17:23 @42 (tower: 78)
19:21 @120 (tower: 78)

37:3 @15 (tower: 51)
32:8@94 (tower: 51)

Will test different ammo and ship soon-ish.

Ahro Thariori
Posted - 2010.01.06 11:07:00 - [178]
 

ok, next batch of results:

test setup
large caldari control tower
batteries on both sides
controlled guns

guns
medium ac:
sig res 400mm
optimal 15
fall-off 63
ammo: -50% range increment
max range: (opt+2xfall-off)*50% = 70,5

target ship
sig radius 524mm
speed 0.0 m/s

results
hits:misses @gun distance (tower distance)
18:22 @36 (tower: 72)
19:23 @115 (tower: 72)

3:14 @67 (tower: 102)
4:21 @145 (tower: 102)

Ahro Thariori
Posted - 2010.01.06 11:18:00 - [179]
 

Edited by: Ahro Thariori on 06/01/2010 11:19:06
and another one:
guns
medium ac:
sig res 400mm
optimal 15
fall-off 63
ammo: +60% range increment
max range: (opt+2xfall-off)*160% = 225,6

target ship
sig radius 524mm
speed 0.0 m/s

results
hits:misses @gun distance (tower distance)
0:17 @187 (tower: 144)
0:15 @108 (tower: 144)

Conclusion
Range bonus/malus from ammo doesn't apply, distance seems to be measured from tower. Or is it?
(note to self: test if dps bonus from ammo applies)

Moved gunner away from tower, result:
1:44 (tower:144, gunner: 129). 144 > opt+2xfall-off. Conclusion: distance may be measured from gunner. Than again 1:44 isnt that significantly different from 0:17 or 0:15, statistically speaking. CBA to runner larger sample size though.
(note to self: trying guns with larger optimal might help to dicide this one).

Regarding tracking
Looking at the formula here http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Turret_damage, I assume that the same distance (from tower or gunner) is applied twice rather than once measured from gun and once measured from tower (or gunner). For completeness sake, I'm going to try to somehow test this on my tower though. Suggestions for the test-setup?

Ahro Thariori
Posted - 2010.01.06 14:00:00 - [180]
 

Edited by: Ahro Thariori on 06/01/2010 14:03:03
and another one:
target ship
sig radius 524mm
speed 0.0 m/s

guns
artie:
sig res 400mm
optimal 280
fall-off 246

ammo
4 HP EXP
16 HP KIN
60% range bonus

result
hits:misses @gun distance (tower distance)
20:0 @245 (tower: 290, gunner: 274)
1712 raw dmg

ammo
8 HP KIN
40 HP THERM
-50% range bonus

result
16:4 @250 (tower: 290, gunner: 274)
3228 raw dmg

Conclusion
This test suggest that distance is measured from tower (gunner is within optimal - given that optimal and fall-off aren't mixed up on arties). This conflicts with a previous result (where tower was out of opt+2xfall-off range). Damage bonus from ammo is clearly applied. Still, range bonus isnt (otherwise dist > opt+fall-off => >50% miss-chance).


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