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Will Nazca
Caldari
The Benjamin Project
Posted - 2009.03.02 13:26:00 - [91]
 

Still no sticky!?

Fitz VonHeise
Eye Bee Em
Stellar Defense Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.02 21:50:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: Lord Fitz
Also 'other' Fitz if you want to go and change post 4...
Updated...
Originally by: Lone Gunman
...added a new EW Battery the "Stealth Emitter Array". Each of the new arrays reduces the Signature radius of the tower by 25%. How much is that going to affect the present POS mechanics?
I'm not sure how effective that array will be. Maybe others have can get you an answer.

Triladir
Gallente
Invictus Australis
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2009.03.04 02:57:00 - [93]
 

Do you have any decent defence setups for Large Caldari Reaction Towers where the silos/reactors are using all the CPU?

Malkavien
Fallen Angel's
White Noise.
Posted - 2009.03.04 08:39:00 - [94]
 

I have a question on Sov when using POS's.

When you have a system that has say Sov 3 and you want to put up another POS to hold a Jump Bridge does that POS need to be online for the normal 5 weeks before it can hold a Jump Bridge or does a new POS automatically get Sov 3 as your alliance currently holds Sov 3 in that system with the original POS ?

Fitz VonHeise
Eye Bee Em
Stellar Defense Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.04 18:17:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: Malkavien
... a new POS automatically get Sov 3 as your alliance currently holds Sov 3..
This is the answer.

Botoxxic
Posted - 2009.03.06 04:10:00 - [96]
 

cant this be sticky?

Mega Builder
Posted - 2009.03.06 18:49:00 - [97]
 

Hi!

I carefully read all of this great topic but still have some questions unanswered. They all are regarding hi-sec research pos.

First of all, I'm planning to use Caldari large tower because it is, as was stated here, best suited for onlining muliple labs. This tower have innate bonuses to missile batteries, but in this thread missiles aren't covered at all in favour of artillery. Is there any reason why missiles should be avoided when building hisec POS defence? If so, is these reasons severe enough that even Tower bonuses didn't overweight them?

Next question, if I chose to go missile way, is there any reason I might want to use Citadel or Torpedo batteries on hisec POS, or only Cruise ones? Perhaps battleships will be slow enough to be hit by Citadels and frigates will be more vulnerable to Torpedoes than Cruises? Or artillery would do it's job better anyway even with no bonuses for it?

Thanks in advance.

Will Nazca
Caldari
The Benjamin Project
Posted - 2009.03.06 19:33:00 - [98]
 

Mega Builder (above) asked my questions for me. I have the same quandary!! Can someone lend some insight here?

Fitz VonHeise
Eye Bee Em
Stellar Defense Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.06 19:49:00 - [99]
 

Edited by: Fitz VonHeise on 06/03/2009 19:55:52

Originally by: Mega Builder
Is there any reason why missiles should be avoided when building hisec POS defence?
Actually I did answer it... but it wasn't highlighted:


Reinforcement Issues

When the pos shield drops to 25% the pos goes into reinforced mode: all cpu based batteries/arrays offline. At this stage the pos uses stront fuel, becomes invulnerable and cannot be targeted. But you can still shoot IF your guns use grid only. (This is why you don't use missle battery's) . The POS modules outside the shield can be shot & incapacitated even if its in reinforced mode. The defenders however can repair those modules and online them again (if they dont use CPU).


I changed the title in original to highlight the reason. Basically your POS will probably be attacked when you are asleep. So all your missiles are huge paperweights. Arty, Railguns, whatever (other then missiles) can always shoot as long as your POS is alive.

Mega Builder
Posted - 2009.03.06 20:06:00 - [100]
 

Edited by: Mega Builder on 06/03/2009 20:22:03
Thanks for quick response Fitz VonHeise!

Ok, as I understand the fact that artillery contine to shot when pos is reinforced is basically the only reason to prefer it over missiles, am I correct?
Actually I was more afraid of arguments like "missile batteries are unable to deal with non-capital agressors as effectively as artillery", am I safe to assume this is not the case?

Also, for those of us who still decide to stick with missiles, any thoughts on possible usability/necessity of Citadel & Torpedo batteries in hisec?

Will Nazca
Caldari
The Benjamin Project
Posted - 2009.03.06 20:14:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: Fitz VonHeise
Edited by: Fitz VonHeise on 26/08/2008 00:30:55

Smaller POS's To Stage For Mining Roids

Try this for a small Domination/Angel tower:
(For the arty bonus's, and yes you can substitute Minmatar tower instead)

With two webers any ship should be slowed enough for medium batteries to take out.

Angel Control Tower Small
2x Ion Field Projection Battery
2x Phase Inversion Battery
2x Spatial Destabilization Battery
1x White Noise Generation Battery
4x Medium Artillery Battery
2x Stasis Webification Battery
1x Warp Scrambling Battery

You would have corp hangers or other items offline to online as needed.




I tried this fit on an Small Angel tower and I come up a little short on the PG.
1110000 of 1093750

Any idea what might cause this or if not, what would be the mod to drop?

Thanks!

Fitz VonHeise
Eye Bee Em
Stellar Defense Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.06 21:53:00 - [102]
 

Edited by: Fitz VonHeise on 06/03/2009 22:25:43

Originally by: Mega Builder
.. am I safe to assume this is not the case?
Not the case. They are as effective and any one using missiles normally will be. (i.e. if ships are nano'd you won't hit them)

Originally by: Will Nazca
what would be the mod to drop?
Stasis Web. (You have two)
And I'll fix mine too.
Thanks!

Ragol nTar
Posted - 2009.03.17 12:11:00 - [103]
 

Oh yes, thats a thread ive searched a long time for !
Very very good.
Though my head is pumped up to a big big calabash, I still have a question to the positioning of the guns:
I read 2 strategies:
1. place them around the POS. So the attacker cant target them without moving, which gives the defense time to lock them .
2. place them in one place. So, the short range guns can fight against frigates, which are attacking the guns.
What is the best solution ?

Ahro Thariori
Posted - 2009.03.31 14:33:00 - [104]
 

Hi,

despite having been warned (the cpu/RM issue), I took a look at missile batteries. The Caldari tower and the batteries themselves give some nice boni, and I wouldnt have tracking issues. Here it is:

Caldari Tower:
25% bonus to Missile Batter Rate of Fire
50% bonus to Missile Velocity

Cruise Missile Battery:
350km Activation Proximity
2x Missile Velocity Bonus
2.5x Missile Flight Time Bonus
1x Missile Damage Bonus
50% Explosion Velocity Bonus
-75% Explosion Radius Bonus
24s Rate of Fire

Torpedo Battery:
350km Activation Proximity
2.5x Missile Velocity Bonus
5x Missile Flight Time Bonus
2.5x Missile Damage Bonus
50% Explosion Velocity Bonus
-25% Explosion Radius Bonus
24s Rate of Fire

Cruise Missile:
3,750m/s Max Velocity
20s Max Flight Time
69m/s Explosion Velocity
300m Explosion Radius
300HP Damage

Torpedo:
1,500m/s Max Velocity
6s Max Flight Time
71m/s Explosion Velocity
450m Explosion Radius
450HP Damage

Medium Autocannon Battery:
90km Activation Proximity
15km Optimal Range
63km Accuracy Falloff
0.03456 Trackingspeed
400m Sig Resolution
43x Damage Modifier
7.88s Rate Of Fire

Medium Artillery Battery:
330km Activation Proximity
280km Optimal Range
246km Accuracy Falloff
0.002566845 Trackingspeed
400m Sig Resolution
67x Damage Modifier
23.65s Rate Of Fire

Fusion L:
Range Bonus -25%
32HP Exp
8HP Kin

Applied Boni:
=============


Cruise Missile:
11,250m/s Max Velocity
50s Max Flight Time
103m/s Explosion Velocity
75m Explosion Radius
300HP Damage
19.2 Rate of Fire

Torpedo:
5,625m/s Max Velocity
30s Max Flight Time
106.5m/s Explosion Velocity
337.5m Explosion Radius
1125HP Damage
19.2 Rate of Fire

Autocannon Fusion L:
11.25km Optimal Range
47.25km Accuracy Falloff
376HP Exp
1504HP Kin
7.88s Rate Of Fire

Artillery Fusion L:
210km Optimal Range
184.5km Accuracy Falloff
536HP Exp
2144HP Kin
23.65s Rate Of Fire

Now, first of all I guess that the information I got from that guide that Medium Batteries take L ammo must be wrong. Second of all, what's up with the incredible low damage of the cruise missile bat? Is the damage mod shown online not the one used? Could someone comment on that?

- Ahro

Ahro Thariori
Posted - 2009.03.31 14:52:00 - [105]
 

Edited by: Ahro Thariori on 31/03/2009 15:02:27
Edited by: Ahro Thariori on 31/03/2009 14:53:54
it's always great to answer your post yourself Very Happy

Powergrid is the key. I can anchor 3.38 Cruise Missile Bats for the powergrid of one medium AC Bat and 2.53 Torpedo Bats for one medium Arty Bat. That brings Torps, ACs, Artys in line. Still the Cruises seem to be a little underpowered. Also of consideration: I can only control so many guns, being able to have 3.38x/5.06x cruise missiles online doesn't help alot if the damage is spread all over the place.

I would deem cruise missiles fit for random high-sec wardecs and initial attacks (when you are asleep anyways): they have no tracking issues, low explosion radius (good vs inty), incredible range. Targets will ofc warp-out (if not pointed by sheer accident), it just forces them to change setup from gank to tank, is good against sniping and speed tanking. They are so cheap fuel wise you can even have some online all the time (for when you don't log in daily to check for wardeccs) - you should ofc be back before your stront runs out. Then you online and man the ACs/Artys.

Ahro Thariori
Posted - 2009.03.31 15:46:00 - [106]
 

Edited by: Ahro Thariori on 31/03/2009 16:09:09


Considering all that was written, this is what I will do:

Large Caldari High-Sec POS:
===========================
When war-decced:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(this one really depends on how many labs you can spare and whether you think the wardec'ing corp poses a threat at all (Zzz has a history of random wardecs by <5 man corps))

?x Adv Lab
?x Lab
?x Assembly Array
2-3x Photon Scattering Array (Shield Hardener)
2-3x Explosion Dampening Array (Shield Hardener)
1-2x Balistic Deflection Array (Shield Hardener)
0-1x Heat Dissipation Array (Shield Hardener)
1-2x Ion Field Projection Battery (ECM)
1-2x Phase Inversion Battery (ECM)
1-2x Spatial Destab Battery (ECM)
1-2x White Noise Generation Battery (ECM)
1-2x Warp Disruption Battery (150km)
0-4x Warp Scrambler Battery (75km, but alot easier on the pg, mind the positioning though!) [1]
?-8x Cruise Missile Battery
?-4x Torpedo Battery

When attacked (if online to man the guns and change the setup at all):
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
labs, assembly arrays offline
missile offline
some hardeners offline (frees pgs for guns)
more ECM, Disruption online
Artys, ACs online, e.g.:
1x Photon Scattering Array (Shield Hardener)
1x Explosion Dampening Array (Shield Hardener)
2x Ion Field Projection Battery (ECM)
2x Phase Inversion Battery (ECM)
2x Spatial Destab Battery (ECM)
2x White Noise Generation Battery (ECM)
2x Warp Disruption Battery
2x Stasis Webification Battery
6x Medium Artillery Battery
5x Medium AutoCannon Battery

Reinforced Mode:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
almost all modules offline (no cpu!)
8x Medium Artillery Battery
8x Medium AutoCannon Battery

Shopping List (including spares):
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
3x Photon Scattering Array (Shield Hardener)
3x Explosion Dampening Array (Shield Hardener)
2x Balistic Deflection Array (Shield Hardener)
1x Heat Dissipation Array (Shield Hardener)
3x Ion Field Projection Battery (ECM)
3x Phase Inversion Battery (ECM)
3x Spatial Destab Battery (ECM)
3x White Noise Generation Battery (ECM)
3x Warp Disruption Battery
3x Stasis Webification Battery
8x Cruise Missile Battery
4x Torpedo Battery
12x Medium Artillery Battery
12x Medium AutoCannon Battery

[1] some more reasoning on the topic of warp disruption vs warp scrambler: powergrid-wise you can fit four scramblers for one disruptor. Now, if you man the POS guns and call primaries (as detailed by the OP in one of the first posts), there is is no point in having more than two warp anythings, thus you should choose disruptors. But if you cant be bothered to defend the POS until reinforced, I argue that substituting one of the two disruptors with four scramblers spread evenly around the POS would greatly increase the chance of actually catching and popping ships

Fitz VonHeise
Eye Bee Em
Stellar Defense Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.31 18:05:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: Ahro Thariori
Now, first of all I guess that the information I got from that guide that Medium Batteries take L ammo must be wrong.
No the mediums arty's do take L ammo; small take medium and the large arty's take XL ammo. Why? Ask CCP. Rolling Eyes

Your comments about missile batteries make sense. If you have the isk and time to place then go ahead. (But I still like Minmitar towers and will use arty)

Lady Valory
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2009.03.31 22:14:00 - [108]
 

Can we get some drug manufacturing POS set ups?


Ronha Ottrit
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.04.04 20:13:00 - [109]
 

Hello all, great thread!

I'm looking into setting up a Shadow Medium tower to protect a moon in somewhat hostile space (although they don't have a capital force to take it down from what i've seen) and i'm looking for some tips as i'm at a bit of a loss on how to set it up.

I think mainly whats throwing me off is someone said I needed neuts, and they take up a lot of grid and I end up with barely any guns after the disrupters and webs. I would appreciate some recommended setups to remedy.

Mealtrom
Posted - 2009.04.06 01:47:00 - [110]
 

Edited by: Mealtrom on 06/04/2009 09:19:01
Edited by: Mealtrom on 06/04/2009 02:30:31
Edited by: Mealtrom on 06/04/2009 01:58:43
Here's a few niggling questions I've had for a while. Apologies if any of this is asked/answered.

1. For highsec defenses why not employ mass ECM jamming? Without the immunity of capital ships its effectively impossible to avoid jamming from a host of dread guristas ECM batteries, or even normal ones. It might not kill anything but seeing as how most highsec wardecs are the product of naked opportunism it still serves as a great deterrent till you can get a defensive force over to gank the attackers. I would pose this as a great defense for low manpower corps that can't be at their POS 24/7.

2. Why no love for rail guns? I realize projectile turrets' obvious superiority for fitting on domination towers and I appreciate their raw hull splitting power but rails have their virtues too. They have better tracking, substantially faster refire, and a medium rail battery hits that sweet spot optimal that sniper teams like to operate at.

3. Are there any subcapital applications for citadel launchers or am I just dreaming?

In keeping with these ideas here's a rather unconventional highsec lab defense setup I've been tinkering with. It isn't capable of the kind of withering firepower a deathstar is, but it is much more capable of taking care of itself for extended periods without supervision and manned gunnery. Its guns can continuously fire for over 8 hours and jamming buys critical time for a defense to be scrambled. And before you mention yes it uses missiles but frankly if a corporation has the means and willpower to put this into reinforced there's not much I can do to stop them anyhow. Comments/rage welcome. :)

Care Bear Death Stare

Dread Guristas Medium Tower
  • Shadow Warp Disruption Battery x1

  • Domination Stasis Webification Battery x1

  • Shadow Medium Railgun Battery x4

  • Dread Guristas Cruise Missile Battery x6

  • Dread Guristas Ion Field Projection Battery x6

  • Dread Guristas Phase Inversion Battery x6

  • Dread Guristas Spatial Destabilization Battery x6

  • Dread Guristas White Noise Generation Battery x6


----------------------------------------------
CPU Usage: 1515 / 3750 (40.40%)
PG Usage: 1368000 / 1375000

ECM puts out obscene amounts of broad spectrum jamming at 200 km and even a substantial amount out to 300, far beyond any battleships sniping capabilities. Even with stacked ECCMs it will be difficult if not impossible to overcome it completely. The rail/missile mix puts out a good blend of damage types that while insufficient to kill a large group of attackers will lay down respectable enough firepower to break small groups and force larger ones to tank. Warp disruptor/web are there to put the fear of god in smaller ships and cause they look shiny. So there you go.

Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
Posted - 2009.05.13 10:00:00 - [111]
 

First i would like to say thank you to the OP for such a great collection on POS information. I have skim read it and copied out what I think I need to read over.

I have been doing a lot of research at the moment, but would love some advice on setting up a POS to act as a staging post for a WH base. Was only intending on going to an easy WH to start with as it will probably be two people. (may park one or two alts in the WH, for gunnery or a backup prober).

While there we will be doing a mixture of mining high end roids and probing out exploration sites to plunder.

I will be continuing with my research but am a little worried as this will be my first experience with anything to do with a POS.

Any advice would be welcome.... a POS setup would be amazing!

Fitz VonHeise
Eye Bee Em
Stellar Defense Alliance
Posted - 2009.05.13 18:06:00 - [112]
 

Originally by: Ronha Ottrit
I needed neuts, and they take up a lot of grid and I end up with barely any guns ...
They do take up a lot of grid... but at least two Online are needed.
This will make Cap fleets think twice or cause them to have to bring more force.
Originally by: Mealtrom
1. For highsec defenses why not employ mass ECM jamming?

2. Why no love for rail guns?

3. Are there any subcapital applications for citadel launchers or am I just dreaming?
1. I like lots of ECM as well.
You just need a balance of guns and ECM.

2. Rail guns can work too.
Just use appropiete towers for bonus's and subsitute rails for arty.
(I just happen to like arty)

3. Dreaming...
they are to slow and small sig ships never get hit hard.
Originally by: Jint Hikaru
would love some advice on setting up a POS to act as a staging post for a WH base.
Other then issues with getting the pos, batteries and fuel into the WH the staging towers I have listed will work just fine in WH space as normal space.

Stan Jens
Gallente
KaaiiNet Holding Executor Corp
Posted - 2009.05.15 08:36:00 - [113]
 



Does remote sensor boosting on the pos guns work? ie reduce lock time, scan res?


Fitz VonHeise
Eye Bee Em
Stellar Defense Alliance
Posted - 2009.05.15 18:00:00 - [114]
 

Edited by: Fitz VonHeise on 15/05/2009 18:10:26

Originally by: Stan Jens
Does remote sensor boosting on the pos guns work? ie reduce lock time, scan res?

No attribute you train will effect the POS guns.
The only thing that effects pos guns is what type of POS tower you buy.
The bonus's are listed for each type.

EDIT: The only training that effects anything is Star Base Defense Management. And that (per level) allows you to control one more battery or array up to a max of five.


High Sec RAILGun Death Star (W/Hardeners)

Shadow Large Control Tower
(What POS Has Online After WarDec Starts Before They Attack)

2x Photon Scattering Array
2x Explosion Dampening Array
1x Thermal Dissipation Array
3x Ion Field Projection Battery
3x Phase Inversion Battery
3x Spatial Destab Battery
3x White Noise Generation Battery
1x Stasis Webification Battery
2x Warp Disruption Battery
10x Medium Railgun Battery
2x Medium AutoCannon Battery
4x Small Railgun Battery

What We Should Have Anchored But Not Online:
1 Component Assembly Array (Storage. Online as needed)
3 Warp Disruption Batteries (extra for when an active one is destroyed)
3 Stasis Webifiers (extra)
7 Medium Railgun Battery
4 Medium Auto Arty
3x Small Railgun Battery
1x Ion Field Projection Battery
1x Phase Inversion Battery
1x Spatial Destab Battery
1x White Noise Gener Battery

When Attacked You:
Offline
1x Photon Scattering Array
1x Explosion Dampening Array
1x Thermal Dissipation Array

Online
2x Medium Railgun Battery
1x Small Railgun Battery


When CPU Batteries Offline You Online:
3x Medium Railgun Battery
2x Medium Auto Arty


This is a far superior setup then the DG. You will have a lot more DPS going downrange. I still like to have a few Auto Arty as they are very good for close in work and have a high rate of fire. Below shows you what you will have online after your POS is in reinforcement. You should have a fantastic alpha strike on any BS and insta pop them.


High Sec Death Star

Shadow Large Control Tower
(What POS Has Online After POS Goes Into Reinforcement)

15x Medium Railgun Battery
4x Medium Auto Arty
5x Small Railgun Battery

Jotobar
Posted - 2009.06.26 12:44:00 - [115]
 

These seem pretty expensive. We're establishing ourself in a region where there's a very real chance we'll get stomped. The cyno jammer tower suggested is 3.8bil Without the offline modules. Is this really cost efficient?

Can you suggest more cost effective alternatives?

Seragon
Caldari
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
Initiative Mercenaries
Posted - 2009.06.26 17:51:00 - [116]
 

Originally by: Jotobar
These seem pretty expensive. We're establishing ourself in a region where there's a very real chance we'll get stomped. The cyno jammer tower suggested is 3.8bil Without the offline modules. Is this really cost efficient?

Can you suggest more cost effective alternatives?


Just replace all the faction stuff with non faction and drop some guns to make it fit. It won't be as good, but it will be more 'cost efficent'. A non faction deathstar is actually fairly cheap, and to be honest, will still kill a lot of ships if it's gunned. But if it's not, it'll die maybe 2 minutes sooner.

Fitz VonHeise
Eye Bee Em
Stellar Defense Alliance
Posted - 2009.07.11 14:20:00 - [117]
 

Originally by: Seragon
Just replace all the faction stuff with non faction and drop some guns to make it fit. It won't be as good, but it will be more 'cost efficent'. A non faction deathstar is actually fairly cheap, and to be honest, will still kill a lot of ships if it's gunned. But if it's not, it'll die maybe 2 minutes sooner.
Dead on.

Amber Valetta
Posted - 2009.07.22 17:48:00 - [118]
 

Hi guys - Any tips on what kinda of ammo to use for a High Sec POS using Med Autocanons & Med Artillery.

Thanks,

Amber :)

Arous Drephius
Posted - 2009.07.22 18:36:00 - [119]
 

Originally by: Amber Valetta
Hi guys - Any tips on what kinda of ammo to use for a High Sec POS using Med Autocanons & Med Artillery.

Thanks,

Amber :)


IIRC the POS guns aren't affected by ammo range penalties, so go with the hardest-hitting ammo spread that does all damage types.

Fitz VonHeise
Eye Bee Em
Stellar Defense Alliance
Posted - 2009.07.22 20:17:00 - [120]
 

Originally by: Amber Valetta
what kinda of ammo to use for a High Sec POS using Med Autocanons & Med Artillery.
" So if you use two types of rounds like Phased Plasma and EMP you will be hitting across multiple damage types which is harder for ships to harden against."


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