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blankseplocked No killrights when someone salvages my wreck = reward with no risk.
 
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Terminus adacai
Caldari
Racey Bee
Posted - 2008.06.30 05:55:00 - [121]
 

Edited by: Terminus adacai on 30/06/2008 05:59:07
/end

Guillame Herschel
Gallente
NME1
Posted - 2008.06.30 16:56:00 - [122]
 

Originally by: Nathanial Victor
If they loot a can i can pwn them.


Bet you can't. And even if you can, I bet you can't pwn the ship they bring next, with their friends. Oh, but then you'll log off.

Quote:

If you think about it, ppl that nija salavge in high sec are getting reward with 0 risk... especially if they are a member of newb corp (as you cant declare war on them).



Hisec mission runner talking about risk vs reward == Lulz in ya face.



Eternal Error
Exitus Acta Probant
Posted - 2008.06.30 17:22:00 - [123]
 

You don't want salvage to flag, then it will become like can flipping, and then more people will do it to try and get easy kills. Then you will come and whine to the forum that people are stealing your salvage and you either died or won't do anything about it.

Nathanial Victor
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.06.30 17:41:00 - [124]
 

Edited by: Nathanial Victor on 30/06/2008 17:43:05
Originally by: Eternal Error
You don't want salvage to flag, then it will become like can flipping, and then more people will do it to try and get easy kills. Then you will come and whine to the forum that people are stealing your salvage and you either died or won't do anything about it.


Originally by: Guillame Herschel
Originally by: Nathanial Victor
If they loot a can i can pwn them.


Bet you can't. And even if you can, I bet you can't pwn the ship they bring next, with their friends. Oh, but then you'll log off.

Quote:

If you think about it, ppl that nija salavge in high sec are getting reward with 0 risk... especially if they are a member of newb corp (as you cant declare war on them).



Hisec mission runner talking about risk vs reward == Lulz in ya face.





hey, how about less lip and more launch? ad hominem, i was talking about it before, its attacking a person or sterotype (or anything really) outside of the actual TOPIC AT HAND
you cant discuss the issue so you just resort to personal attacks?

carebear/newb? i'm whining that i cant kill some npc alt and you say "well if it were 'fixed' you would die and come cry here..."

i dont want to be 'that guy' but at this point i have to say it: my orig char is older than your face and has pvp'd more hours than most your characters have been alive.

tell you what. let me and anyone else (carebear, alt, newb WHATEVER) decide if i want to shoot or not. let me get pwned in the face if i fk it up and get gang rapd. THAT IS WHAT EVE IS SUPPOSED TO BE!! can flipping and ppl fighting and bodies flying? GOOD , moar combat! but for some reason so many of you think thats a bad idea, for reasons you have yet to state.

wah wah mission runners? too safe in high sec? put your money where your mouth is and argue/post to MAKE the environment what it should be, ABLE to have hostilities!!

All you ladies want to moan and groan and dodge the topic. 1/2 of you just pulling stuff out of your arses (welcome to forums, i know) and some of you like that your alts can salvage with no risk. then you want to push the blame on the very mission runners that make your income possible Laughing

/eat me

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2008.06.30 17:57:00 - [125]
 

Originally by: Nathanial Victor
All you ladies want to moan and groan and dodge the topic. 1/2 of you just pulling stuff out of your arses (welcome to forums, i know) and some of you like that your alts can salvage with no risk. then you want to push the blame on the very mission runners that make your income possible
…and you keep dodging the fact that mission running is far less risky, and yet offers far higher rewards. Until you confront that issue, the whole "onoz, they salvage with no risk" argument is entirely hypocritical, and no-one will listen to you.

Gatu
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
Posted - 2008.06.30 18:25:00 - [126]
 

Originally by: Nathanial Victor
Edited by: Nathanial Victor on 30/06/2008 17:43:05
Originally by: Guillame Herschel

Hisec mission runner talking about risk vs reward == Lulz in ya face.



hey, how about less lip and more launch? ad hominem, i was talking about it before, its attacking a person or sterotype (or anything really) outside of the actual TOPIC AT HAND
you cant discuss the issue so you just resort to personal attacks?



More pointedly, it was a tu quoque, which is a type of ad hominem , to be sure, but as I read him he was just pointing out irony and not necessarily arguing whether the game mechanic is good/bad. In that sense, it's a perfectly acceptable contribution.

Quote:

tell you what. let me and anyone else (carebear, alt, newb WHATEVER) decide if i want to shoot or not. let me get pwned in the face if i fk it up and get gang rapd. THAT IS WHAT EVE IS SUPPOSED TO BE!! can flipping and ppl fighting and bodies flying? GOOD , moar combat! but for some reason so many of you think thats a bad idea, for reasons you have yet to state.



I believe this is what low/null sec is for. If you prefer the high sec rule set, you'll need to suffer through some of its less desireable aspects.

Kronos Hopeslayer
Lorentzian Traversable Corporation
Posted - 2008.06.30 18:28:00 - [127]
 

People salvaging my mission wrecks is why I joined a 0.0 space corp, and moved so far into 0.0 space that going back to high sec takes longer then I am bothered to do. It's just not worth the frustration dealing with how much carebears are protected in highsec.

Nathanial Victor
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.06.30 19:03:00 - [128]
 

Originally by: Gatu

I believe this is what low/null sec is for. If you prefer the high sec rule set, you'll need to suffer through some of its less desireable aspects.


thats not really accurate. if one thing makes eve great, is even where its 'safe', its not really. That is the meat & potatoes of the arguement, NOTHING should be completely safe.

Despite what ppl want to suggest here, at least a mission runner has some chance (whether caused by a disconnect, or being stupid) of having his mission boat killed. The salvager cleaning really doesn't (especially if he is an npc corp).

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2008.06.30 19:15:00 - [129]
 

Originally by: Nathanial Victor
Despite what ppl want to suggest here, at least a mission runner has some chance (whether caused by a disconnect, or being stupid) of having his mission boat killed.
…and the salvager faces the exact same risks. I don't think anyone argues that the risk is very very very tiny, but it's still there, and unlike the mission runner, the salvager doesn't come in tanked six ways to Sunday.

Xaen
Caldari
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2008.06.30 19:17:00 - [130]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Nathanial Victor
Despite what ppl want to suggest here, at least a mission runner has some chance (whether caused by a disconnect, or being stupid) of having his mission boat killed.
…and the salvager faces the exact same risks. I don't think anyone argues that the risk is very very very tiny, but it's still there, and unlike the mission runner, the salvager doesn't come in tanked six ways to Sunday.
Except the mission runner is typically risking a 100M+ ship. Half the time the salvage thief if s in a 300K or less ship on a day old alt and doesn't need a tank because the rats are already shooting the mission ship.

So quit trying to find an excuse for your griefing. It's not justifiable.

Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2008.06.30 19:21:00 - [131]
 

Originally by: Tippia
...and unlike the mission runner, the salvager doesn't come in tanked six ways to Sunday.


I both agree and disagree, and this is a nice little loophole.

My disagreement stems from the fact that so many Mission Runners have their Bio read like a Menu for Dennys, with Damage Types of different Rats they might face. Many will fit the appropriate racial hardeners for the task, which leads those who are looking to kill them to fit the proper weaponry on their ships.

Once you know your enemy, it's much easier to kill them. Mission Runner fit with EM/Thermal Hardeners? Ok, hit them with Kinetic/Explosive damage!

So, basically, Mission Runners come in tanked two ways from Sunday.

Cool

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2008.06.30 19:27:00 - [132]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 30/06/2008 19:30:26
Originally by: Xaen
So quit trying to find an excuse for your griefing. It's not justifiable.
Two things:

1. I don't ninja salvage.
2. Even if I did, it wouldn't be griefing.

Oh, and you might want to take a look at how much tackles cost, the cost of the astrometics skills and how long they take to train to become useful…
Originally by: Tchell Dahhn
Once you know your enemy, it's much easier to kill them. Mission Runner fit with EM/Thermal Hardeners? Ok, hit them with Kinetic/Explosive damage!

So, basically, Mission Runners come in tanked two ways from Sunday.
Ok. True enough. Add to that the ability, as discussed in the last couple of post, to speed-tank some of the bigger rats. Or, well… I speedtank battleships in my little BC – works wonders! Can't really speak for those other mission runners. Very Happy

Gatu
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
Posted - 2008.06.30 19:29:00 - [133]
 

Originally by: Nathanial Victor

thats not really accurate. if one thing makes eve great, is even where its 'safe', its not really. That is the meat & potatoes of the arguement, NOTHING should be completely safe.

Despite what ppl want to suggest here, at least a mission runner has some chance (whether caused by a disconnect, or being stupid) of having his mission boat killed. The salvager cleaning really doesn't (especially if he is an npc corp).


As it turns out, salvagers are unsafe in these situations in very much the same way and to the same degree as the mission runners, themselves. That is to say, they can be aggro trained, lose connection, fly stupid, etc. They're in the same place as the mission runners, and usually in much flimsier ships. If you had a mind to, you could easily suicide gank a salvager. Granted, it's still a very minimal level of risk, but it's a level you seem to think is high enough for mission runners themselves.

Whats more, as a salvager who could easily be in an NPC corp doing this job, but who chose to join a corp specializing in this activity *precisely because* it can be and is currently wardecced, I can honestly say that it has never been about reward with no risk.

Chi Quan
Bibkor Enterprises
Posted - 2008.07.06 13:20:00 - [134]
 

Edited by: Chi Quan on 06/07/2008 13:28:59
hahah, suiciding that 1 week alt in a t1 frig while the prober sits well cloaked laughing his behind off watching the pretty concord BSs, that really IS bright

you ninja salvagers are parasites, even worse you are also bullies and griefers, your posts all over this board proove this.

and you have only one defence: CCP
it's not your wit, your ship or even your skills

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2008.07.06 13:34:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: Chi Quan
you are also bullies and griefers
Incorrect.

Dotard
Minmatar
Kernel of War
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.07.06 13:56:00 - [136]
 


Oh waaa waaa waaa....Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

When I go into OPMs (Other Peoples Missions) to salvage I also loot. Not only do I want your salvages and lootz, I want to ransom your ship or make it explode also.

So yeah, just like to lowsec pirates I'm going to choose my fights. Yes, My covert-ops is going to 'passive scan' your ship to see exactly what weapons/mods you got on board to better fit my gank-ship. Yes, I'm going to read up on the mission you are in to know what to tank/shoot. Yes, my salvager ship will be heavily buffer tanked to withstand your alpha strike and GTFU.

If you're an idiot and warp off and return in the exact same ship all the while my BS is chasing you thru every jump gate and you STILL return to the same spot you aggro'd me, well, you're an idiot. Point is; "Don't be an Idiot."

After you aggro me and I warp off to get gank ship, warp off your self, refit to make me go "WTF?!?" when I attack and totally do not expect the tank/damage types you refit to. Shure the hell won't expect a scrammer fitted if I just scanned you and there was not one.

It takes me like 20-25 seconds to swap ships. You could reasonably get refitted and back to the 'gank-spot' before I could get back there and I would be none the wiser.

I have no idea why I'm giving you pointers on how to deal with me. I guess I'm being the idiot. I wasn't going to tell you how to do it, but I got high. I was going to sit back and easy kill you but I was high. Now I'm out my expensive rigged Battleship and I know why....

Because I got high.
Because I got high.
Because I got high.



Nathanial Victor
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.07.06 15:52:00 - [137]
 

mine is way cooler

Dotard
Minmatar
Kernel of War
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.07.06 18:15:00 - [138]
 


Your what is retaining less heat?


Flaming Lemming
Caldari
Puppeteer Press
Posted - 2008.07.06 18:54:00 - [139]
 

TBH, I don't give a flying f*ck is someone Ninja-salvages my crap. But let's be honest..

ninja-salvager = carebear in the truest sense of the word.
After all, they get the reward (salvage) without risk (no aggro flagging)..and people who make a living getting risk-free rewards are carebears, right?

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2008.07.06 19:09:00 - [140]
 

Originally by: Flaming Lemming
ninja-salvager = carebear in the truest sense of the word.
After all, they get the reward (salvage) without risk (no aggro flagging)
True enough, but still: same risks as mission runners (NPCs) with less rewards (no LP, no mission pay, no loot, no standings increase, completely randdom returns)…

…so the mission runners aren't really in a position to complain about the salvagers.

Calacheng
Caldari
Posted - 2008.07.07 02:08:00 - [141]
 

Originally by: Chi Quan
you ninja salvagers are parasites, even worse you are also bullies and griefers, your posts all over this board proove this.

and you have only one defence: CCP
it's not your wit, your ship or even your skills

Originally by: Flaming Lemming
ninja-salvager = carebear in the truest sense of the word.
After all, they get the reward (salvage) without risk (no aggro flagging)..and people who make a living getting risk-free rewards are carebears, right?


These are the facts that you carebear salvage thieves cannot deny if you are intelligent, if your not intelligent it doesn't matter what you say. You just want to hug highsec because it makes you feel safe and warm in Concorde's arms. You can't have risk-free stealing in lowsec or 0.0, that's why you stay in highsec stealing and griefing.

Case Kovaks
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2008.07.07 09:13:00 - [142]
 

You can always WarDec us if you want to shoot us. I dont see the problem unless you are hiding behind a NPC corp.

Additionally its not stealing as otherwise concord would concordokken us and its not griefing as to grief you do not profit from the transaction and we make lots and lots of Isk.

Spineker
Caldari
Posted - 2008.07.07 09:17:00 - [143]
 

Originally by: Donkee Punch
If you get a Rogue salvager.. target your wrecks and pop em right in the salvagers face.. Better that than have these little dipsticks steal you're hard earned salvage.




This is what I do. i will blow the whole damn room up before giving it to anyone. At least I made them waste their time getting out to the loots

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2008.07.07 10:13:00 - [144]
 

Make it so that you get kill rights if they salvage a wreck you created while you are still on the grid. It doesn't seem to make sense that CONCORD would allow someone to attack over loot, but not over salvage.
But, make it so that when you leave the grid the salvage becomes FFA, so salvaging can be done in safety to some degree.

Roshan longshot
Gallente
Ordos Humanitas
Posted - 2008.07.07 11:03:00 - [145]
 

Now I know where the big influx of scavengers came from....You big dummies.

Do I mind them 'helping themselves'? Nope






Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2008.07.07 13:30:00 - [146]
 

Originally by: Calacheng
You can't have risk-free stealing in lowsec or 0.0, that's why you stay in highsec stealing and griefing.
Likewise, if you go into lowsec or 0.0 and run your missions there, you are free to blow the salvagers away, but you like your risk-free missioning too much.

Oh, and as it happens, ninja salvagers aren't stealing or griefing.

Calacheng
Caldari
Posted - 2008.07.08 01:28:00 - [147]
 

Taking something without permission is stealing. Wreck ownetrship belongs to the player who destroyed the ship and taking anything from it without permission is called stealing.

We all know that CCP screwed up the salvaging rights and ninja salvagers exploit it to the fullest while CCP tries to hide their mistakes under the "working as intended" cover. I bet that if CCP fixes this thing then ninja salvagers start to whine on the forum about not being able to salvage completely without risk anymore.


Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2008.07.08 01:56:00 - [148]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 08/07/2008 01:57:17
Originally by: Calacheng
Taking something without permission is stealing.
…thus salvaging isn't stealing.
Quote:
Wreck ownetrship belongs to the player who destroyed the ship and taking anything from it without permission is called stealing.
Yup. That's why you get flagged if you take the cargo.
Quote:
We all know that CCP screwed up the salvaging right
Prove it.

Oh, and salvaging isn't "completely without risk" either.

Calacheng
Caldari
Posted - 2008.07.08 04:32:00 - [149]
 

Oh please. now you're just trolling because you have no arguments left, you only repeat yourself.

Originally by: Tippia

…thus salvaging isn't stealing.

Salvage does not just appear from nowhere. It is extracted from the wreck which is owned by the player who destroyed the ship
and so it is stealing.

Quote:
Prove it.

These ninja salvaging posts prove it. If there was nothing wrong with it there wouldn't be any arguing or disagreement about it.
Also if it were inline with other wreck related ownership like not being able to use tractor beams on wrecks that belong to someone else or getting flagged by stealing loot then it would work correctly.

Quote:
Oh, and salvaging isn't "completely without risk" either.

Again repeating like an old broken record player. Laughing



Marion Rendois
Posted - 2008.07.08 04:49:00 - [150]
 

Solutions to ninja salvaging problem:

  1. Salvage faster

  2. Don't run missions

  3. Ninja salvage



For example run mission with friend who salvage wrecks while helping blow stuff up.


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