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blankseplocked No killrights when someone salvages my wreck = reward with no risk.
 
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Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2008.06.28 10:39:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Taritura
This mechanic is totaly f......
If i steal your old car and leave the radio on street "concord" won't do anything.... This is sick.
Let's say you are fisher. You catch some fish and someone steals them from you. "Ok there were dead meet,junk that any one can take ..... "
Except that your comparisons are way off.

They're not stealing your old car – they're collecting ash tray lids from burnt-out wrecks.
They're not taking the fish you just pulled up – they're collecting the left-over bones.

Tenebrion Darkness
Amarr
Castles of STEEL
Castle of STEEL
Posted - 2008.06.28 11:20:00 - [92]
 

CCP introduces salvage. In the begining, a wreck with loot would've needed to be empited before it could be salvaged, thus flaging potential ninja salvagers. Mission runners whined about how their holds were filling up with crap loot, when all they wanted was the salvage.

CCP than changes the mechanic to what we have now. At no time did wrecks ever belong to the pilot that poped them, however a mechanic was in place to discourage others salvaging "your" wrecks (note, empty wrecks have always been open season). So, if you'd like to blame anyone, blame mission runners.

I've never had a problem with ninja salvagers, than again I try and keep to low populated systems. Also, "in theory", one of the reasoning for the change was to increase the amnt of salvage circulating, in an attempt to bring down rig prices.

Khanto Thor
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2008.06.28 11:36:00 - [93]
 

I don't really see what the problem is, think of all the other wrecks you can salvage.

I often leave wrecks behind as I do not have a salvager fitted. These wrecks should be free for anyone to salvage, they should not be worried that they will get aggressed by salvaging them!

Taritura
Caldari
Achozen Dueces TecH
Posted - 2008.06.28 11:42:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Tenebrion Darkness
... So, if you'd like to blame anyone, blame mission runners.



You must be kidding me. I should blame myself for salvage ninja... I f.. me when i hit some bs, for an hour and a sneaky little frigate witch no conseqences salvages my hard worked loot for nothing... I'm quiting eve for some time..
1. Salvage rules are.. CCP must be insane...
2. Lags... Saila umokka... It realy nervs when you wait 2 minutes for lanchers to shoot ...
3. GTC 60d ... Is the only way to make players leave the game so others wouldn't have lags.. Yea you finaly made it i'm quiting.. less lags for others ..
"To simplify the ETC reseller program and attune our product offerings" You whant ot simplify make 1 ship per race .. That would be simple .....
Bye all




Tenebrion Darkness
Amarr
Castles of STEEL
Castle of STEEL
Posted - 2008.06.28 11:51:00 - [95]
 

Edited by: Tenebrion Darkness on 28/06/2008 11:51:30
Originally by: Taritura

You must be kidding me. I should blame myself for salvage ninja... I f.. me when i hit some bs, for an hour and a sneaky little frigate witch no conseqences salvages my hard worked loot for nothing... I'm quiting eve for some time..
1. Salvage rules are.. CCP must be insane...
2. Lags... Saila umokka... It realy nervs when you wait 2 minutes for lanchers to shoot ...
3. GTC 60d ... Is the only way to make players leave the game so others wouldn't have lags.. Yea you finaly made it i'm quiting.. less lags for others ..
"To simplify the ETC reseller program and attune our product offerings" You whant ot simplify make 1 ship per race .. That would be simple .....
Bye all




So sorry you feel that way. If you'd like, I can hold onto all your suff until you come back Wink

MenanceWhite
Amarr
Emi Raaf's Corporation
Posted - 2008.06.28 12:10:00 - [96]
 

From previous observations, internet people using huge amounts of "..."s in their posts usually lack intelligence/maturity.

On topic, the people getting salvage looted can blame themseleves.

Ninja salvagers can do whatever they want-
* scan probes are'nt free
* scanning with probes is'nt instant
* they dont always scan up a mission runner

Mission grinders have themselves to blame
* youre all clustered together im mission hubs
* you never leave highsec

just doing those 2 things reduces the chance of you getting ninja salvaged by soo much.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2008.06.28 12:32:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Taritura
I f.. me when i hit some bs, for an hour
Let's stop right there. It takes you one hour to kill a misison BS?! What the hell are you shooting it with? 75mm:s?
Quote:
and a sneaky little frigate witch no conseqences salvages my hard worked loot for nothing...
First of all, he isn't taking your loot – he's salvaging. If he took your loot, you'd be able to shoot him.

Second of all, it's more difficult (and quite possibly more costly) for him to probe that wreck out than it is for you to produce it.
Quote:
1. Salvage rules are..
Are what? Completely logical? Yes, you're quite right there.
Quote:
2. Lags... Saila umokka... It realy nervs when you wait 2 minutes for lanchers to shoot ...
So don't bunch up with the rest of the lemmings in a crowded system. Go somewhere else – there are plenty of agents available.

TekGriffon
Posted - 2008.06.28 13:57:00 - [98]
 

You're absolutely right. It's reward with zero risk. It doesn't fit into EvE at all. In fact, it completely goes against what EvE is about.

My only guess is that one of the senior balancers is a pathological griefer and wants at least SOME way he can be a douche bag without any risk or consequences.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2008.06.28 14:27:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: TekGriffon
You're absolutely right. It's reward with zero risk. It doesn't fit into EvE at all. In fact, it completely goes against what EvE is about.
…so let's remove missions, since they give even greater rewards at even less risk.

MenanceWhite
Amarr
Emi Raaf's Corporation
Posted - 2008.06.28 14:36:00 - [100]
 

lets remove all roids and exploration stuff in highsec too

Dotard
Minmatar
Kernel of War
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.06.28 14:55:00 - [101]
 


This thread has provided much fuel for our ships.
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.


Ovar Doce
Amarr
Clear Skies Incorporated
Posted - 2008.06.28 15:11:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: Nathanial Victor
Originally by: Haakelen
Because CCP says salvage is not property, only things in cans are.


oh wow. so i'm guessing they ran into some weird bug trying to get the flag applied when programming salvaging.
Instead of making it work like it should they decided to make it a 'feature' and declare the wreck 'public domain'.

Laughing that has to be the silliest, most rediculous thing i've ever heard ccp.

CCP, did you hire a bunch of green behind the ears trial lawyers on board as game developers?? Sounds like instead of fixing an issue you gave up and made up some BS (wouldn't be the 1st time and probably wont be the last).



Actually the bug would be that CCP fragged up when they gave aggro rights to the mission runners when us ninjas loot the dropped cargo containers. That is the mistake which CCP decided not to fix.

Techincally the wreck belongs to the pod pilot that got blown up by you. In 0.0 fleet fights it is not unheard of for an opposing alliance to give back the drop contents of a foes ship back to the original pod pilot. So it is you that is lucky that you at least get aggro if one of us takes your loot.

Zephyr Rengate
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.06.28 15:22:00 - [103]
 

Please add in kill rights for ninja salvaging, just another way for me to get moar isk while ninja salvaging. Please open fire Mr CNR and defend your salvage!

Death4free
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.06.28 15:25:00 - [104]
 

so er if ninja salvaging is no risk for reward whats....carebearing and mining

its almost impossible to die when missioning if u know what ur doin and its impossible to die if ur mining and u know what ur doin

William Pierce
Caldari
Zor Industries
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.06.28 15:50:00 - [105]
 

I agree with the OP. Have any of you ever watched Firefly? Salvage definitely does not belong to the person who found it first Laughing

Mike Seary
Minmatar
Minmatar Industrial Limited
Posted - 2008.06.28 16:57:00 - [106]
 

Dear whiners:

In 0.0 you can shoot anyone you want

/thread

Tyrantus
Posted - 2008.06.28 19:27:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: Mike Seary
Dear whiners:

In 0.0 you can shoot anyone you want

/thread


Indeed, and all the top quality agents are out in 0.0 also so you mission runners can squeeze a few extra isk per hour out of them in the bargain plus blow up any of the bad bad ninja salvaging players with no consequences. Twisted Evil

Mika Meroko
Minmatar
Crayon Posting Inc
Posted - 2008.06.29 05:03:00 - [108]
 

1st thing..

is by game design.. do a search.. Devs WANTS a salvager profession and like things the way it is..

Remember, when it 1st came out, you HAVE to loot (empty the wreck) before you salvage...
they changed it so now you dont need to.

geee, I wonder what direction the dev wants?...


and secound,

I can say the same for running mission in high sec, = no risk (if you know what you are doing)


dont want people salvaging? run missing in low sec, then you can shoot them =P




Ekrid
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2008.06.29 06:31:00 - [109]
 

I'm just going to say that technically the stuff inside the wreck would be up for grabs too, since the wrecks is something that doesn't belong inherently to you, then all parts of objects that wreck contains shouldn't either, like salvaging ships at the bottom of the ocean.

shooting something =/= you own it. But CCP wants players not to get ninja'd without the ability to fight back in the loot aspect at least. consider yourself lucky they do this much for you.

Khorvek
Amarr
Dead Pool Syndicate
Posted - 2008.06.29 06:36:00 - [110]
 

these carebear tears, they are intensely satisfying *licks lips* (we need a smilie that animates salivation and lip licking).

Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Umbra Synergy
Posted - 2008.06.29 06:54:00 - [111]
 

why am I not suprised that this failwhine has attracted Xaen?

Pteranodon
Caldari
Rekall Incorporated
Posted - 2008.06.29 11:19:00 - [112]
 

Get a Maurader. They salvage so fast that the ninja's don't get a look in. Keep the mission open until your salvaging is finished so they can't use MWD to get to your wrecks anytime soon. The 40K tractor range & double speed means you will get your wrecks salvaged faster. I clean up 30 Wrecks looted & salvaged at 40K range in a few minutes-don't know how many minutes- not timed it-but it's very quick.

Melkisadek
M'8'S
Posted - 2008.06.29 13:41:00 - [113]
 

Edited by: Melkisadek on 29/06/2008 13:42:36
the problem with all this is that the original game mechanics were changed to satisfy carebear miners

jetcans were never supposed to be used for mining - when people started to use them other ebil peeps decided to steal the contents

cue whinesville arizona

CCP changed the mechanic to allow the miner to PEW PEW the ore thief

as a consequence of this, cans in missions also got flags (and in static complexes which was another unforseen PITA)

when wrecks were developed they were tied to the loot in the container but this meant a lot of wrecks went un-salvaged

as this was another unforseen consequence of the can flagging CCP decided to fix it

they didn't change it to aid salvage ninjas - they put it back to how it would have been had they not caved in to jetcan flag pressure (which they should have never done in the first place)

the most simple solution to all of this is to make all of EVE 0.0 - however that would prevent new players getting a start in the game and would be business suicide

so we're left with a semi working system that allows carebears to make vast amounts of isk in relative safety but leaves them susceptible to salvage ninjas - hardly too big a price to pay when you consider the alternatives

i don't see many mission runners campaigning for all lvl 3+ missions to be moved to lowsec so they can defend their wrecks

shows how much it means to them i spose...

Zombie Network
Perkone
Posted - 2008.06.29 17:51:00 - [114]
 

In the interest in fairness, if we are to introduce and element of risk/reward for the professional salvager, we should do the same for the Mission running salvager as well since they also seem able to claim salvage without any additional risk.

I propose that when two players activate salvagers on the same wreck they enter into a concord sanctioned salvage dispute - the wreck becomes unsalvagable and both players enter into the negotiation phase of the dispute. The goal of the negotiation phase is to persuade the other party to disable their salvage module on the disputed wreck so it may be salvaged, to aid in negotiation both players will be aggressed on the other.

You want to claim salvage rights? Bring your dispute to the 'negotiating' table.

Trathen
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.06.29 18:16:00 - [115]
 

Edited by: Trathen on 29/06/2008 18:17:33
Compare the income from risk-free level 4 mission running to the income from risk-free ninja salvaging then kindly STFU.

To be fair, I'm sure plenty of ninja salvagers would be happy to "defend" themselves.

JanoMark
ANZAC ALLIANCE
IT Alliance
Posted - 2008.06.29 18:22:00 - [116]
 

Edited by: JanoMark on 29/06/2008 18:23:55
/me lulz at all the mission runners whining about ninja salvagers

P.S. No I don't have a salvager alt, so stfu

P.P.S.
Quote:
Dear whiners:

In 0.0 you can shoot anyone you want

/thread

This.

Kel Nissa
Posted - 2008.06.29 19:02:00 - [117]
 

The ninja defending aspect is bull****.

When the salvaging guy wants a fight he just needs to steal the loot.

Nathanial Victor
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.06.29 21:54:00 - [118]
 

so, just to make sure i've got all this:

-the wreck and salvage isn't the mission runners, but the loot and can is (this logic is so bright i need sunglasses)

-the salvagers are cleaning stuff no one wants (well except them amirite?)

-mission runners have no risk at all so they need to stfu (lets ignore that they can die. Risk is minimal but it is there. A full agro spawn and get scrammed OR actually engage someone that loots their can, and with some logic also salvaging their wreck).

-all mission runners do nothing but run missions, dont really play eve, cant possibly use missions as a source of income AND pvp. thusly they need to STFU

-blame mission runners for being in high sec to begin with.

-probes are expensive.

-missions are the issue. they are LESS risk than salvaging in high sec w/ an npc alt (well thats a lie, but hey whatever)

-CCP made a mistake allowing us to get aggro on cans, they have only corrected that error with wrecks (though they left the policy w/ cans? yeah, thats a tall one too)

-its almost impossible to die missioning. so we will squint our eyes and just say 'little risk' is 'no risk' and conclude its 'less risk' than salvaging and actually worse than salvaging for the game.

-Firefly is an awsome show

-go to 0.0 and stop talking about high sec policies.

-salvaging is a profession. (somehow this ='s what we are talking about) ie: titan pilots are a profession == remote DD is not overpowered. (keep those sunglasses on, the bright minds are out today)

- we are lucky we can get aggro rights on cans. we should leave it at that

-the problem is aggro rights are there to satisfy carebears (couldn't possibly be there to promote combat?), the last part of this logic ended up that all eve should be 0.0. tl;dr

-we shouldn't have aggro rights, but theere should be a "concord sanctioned salvage dispute... both players will be aggressed on the other" (hrm, we could just have kill rights and this happens when one engages the other.

-salvaging doesn't make any isk compared to the rest of the mission, STFU

-lulz about mission runneres whining


lots of ppl suggesting this is a failthread.
i'd have to say looking at some of these responses I agree.

outside of the ad hominem and the down right rediculous it sounds like ccp either needs to drop aggro rights on cans all together, or make cans and wrecks work the same. or we need to make everywhere 0.0, or HAVE high sec but make no one live there. Neutral


















Tyrantus
Posted - 2008.06.30 04:39:00 - [119]
 

Originally by: Nathanial Victor
-Firefly is an awsome show


Agreed! Very Happy

Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Umbra Synergy
Posted - 2008.06.30 05:03:00 - [120]
 

that "flawed" logic you so disagree seems ot be getting more support than your "superior" ideas

maybe someone elses logic is flawed? Laughing


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