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blankseplocked No killrights when someone salvages my wreck = reward with no risk.
 
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2008.06.27 20:27:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Xaen
Oh, you thought I was going to fight you in my mission ship?


Explain how you're getting away? You're scrammed and webbed. Last time I checked, most Mission Ships weren't speedtanked.

Rolling Eyes

Xaen
Caldari
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2008.06.27 20:31:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Tchell Dahhn
Originally by: Xaen
Oh, you thought I was going to fight you in my mission ship?


Explain how you're getting away? You're scrammed and webbed. Last time I checked, most Mission Ships weren't speedtanked.

Rolling Eyes

Are you completely braindead?

1) You steal from wreck.
2) I get aggro rights to you (you don't get aggro rights to me - that's how it works slappy).
3) I warp out and come back in something nasty.
4) ????
5) profit!

Gatu
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
Posted - 2008.06.27 20:36:00 - [63]
 

Edited by: Gatu on 27/06/2008 20:37:28
Edited by: Gatu on 27/06/2008 20:36:51
Originally by: Xaen

1) You steal from wreck.
2) I get aggro rights to you (you don't get aggro rights to me - that's how it works slappy).
3) I warp out and come back in something nasty.
4) ????
5) profit!



So... what happens when you get back, the wrecks are gone and so is the ninja? (Hint: it should be listed under part 4 of your "how to outsmart a ninja salvager just as soon as ccp fixes the rules" masterplan)

Edit: close quotes ftl.

Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2008.06.27 20:40:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Xaen

Are you completely braindead?

1) You steal from wreck.
2) I get aggro rights to you (you don't get aggro rights to me - that's how it works slappy).
3) I warp out and come back in something nasty.
4) ????
5) profit!



Hmm. So, let me get this right... I steal your loot, and you don't shoot me, but rather, warp out. You're thinking that I'm going to just stay within range to see what you're bringing back?

Pro Tip: Check my Corp Name. I do this for a living, and I sure as hell don't make the noob moves you're accusing me of.

Last time I checked, Mission Runners usually fly their Missions in their version of 'something nasty'. Sure, there might be those who have a PvP ship in reserve, but most are just carebearing it up in their PvE fit ships.

Even if you do return to omgwtfpwn my little salvaging frigate (sub-500k, btw) in your "OMG I'm so freaking Uber" ship of Doom, I'm still returning to make your life miserable.

Hope you have insurance.

Cool

Xaen
Caldari
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2008.06.27 20:48:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Gatu
Edited by: Gatu on 27/06/2008 20:37:28
Edited by: Gatu on 27/06/2008 20:36:51
Originally by: Xaen

1) You steal from wreck.
2) I get aggro rights to you (you don't get aggro rights to me - that's how it works slappy).
3) I warp out and come back in something nasty.
4) ????
5) profit!



So... what happens when you get back, the wrecks are gone and so is the ninja? (Hint: it should be listed under part 4 of your "how to outsmart a ninja salvager just as soon as ccp fixes the rules" masterplan)

Edit: close quotes ftl.

So you can loot 50 wrecks from 20km to 70km away in the 90 seconds it will take me to switch ships?

I didn't think so!

Amastat
Caldari
Blue Ring Defence
Posted - 2008.06.27 20:55:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Xaen
Originally by: Gatu
Edited by: Gatu on 27/06/2008 20:37:28
Edited by: Gatu on 27/06/2008 20:36:51
Originally by: Xaen

1) You steal from wreck.
2) I get aggro rights to you (you don't get aggro rights to me - that's how it works slappy).
3) I warp out and come back in something nasty.
4) ????
5) profit!



So... what happens when you get back, the wrecks are gone and so is the ninja? (Hint: it should be listed under part 4 of your "how to outsmart a ninja salvager just as soon as ccp fixes the rules" masterplan)

Edit: close quotes ftl.

So you can loot 50 wrecks from 20km to 70km away in the 90 seconds it will take me to switch ships?

I didn't think so!


Don't bother - It's impossible to change another's opinions or stance on a issue, or even get at least one rational, logical, and meaningful statement or admittance, when they are so addicted to being on easy street - people don't like/dread/fear change - it's like asking them to cut off one of their legs; they won't do it.

Xaen
Caldari
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2008.06.27 21:03:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Tchell Dahhn
Hmm. So, let me get this right... I steal your loot, and you don't shoot me, but rather, warp out. You're thinking that I'm going to just stay within range to see what you're bringing back?
You have approximately 90 seconds to get away from the warp in point before I return. Even with a MWD destroyer you're looking at 100km tops. And there's no reason to go that far as you'll be way past any of the wrecks. So more than likely you're going to be within 50km of the warpin.

In deadspace my vagabond covers 1679m/s. How fast is your destroyer?Twisted Evil

Originally by: Tchell Dahhn
Pro Tip: Check my Corp Name. I do this for a living, and I sure as hell don't make the noob moves you're accusing me of.
That's funny coming from a ****y amateur. Especially when you're accusing me of the same.

Originally by: Tchell Dahhn
Last time I checked, Mission Runners usually fly their Missions in their version of 'something nasty'. Sure, there might be those who have a PvP ship in reserve, but most are just carebearing it up in their PvE fit ships.
Last time I checked I mission in a drake on my main, Golem on my alt. And I have several pvp ships in reserve this very moment. I don't do stupid **** like engage players in mission ships, especially a drake. In fact, the only reason I use a drake is the omgafktank that lets me aggro the whole room on purpose.

Originally by: Tchell Dahhn
Even if you do return to omgwtfpwn my little salvaging frigate (sub-500k, btw) in your "OMG I'm so freaking Uber" ship of Doom, I'm still returning to make your life miserable.
Good, it'll be fun to fight the ship you think is so badass.

Originally by: Tchell Dahhn
Hope you have insurance.

Cool

Hope you fit something nice for me.Twisted Evil

Actually, I don't mission in Motsu anymore. In fact, I hardly ever mission on this character at all, excepting the ole faction grind for Minmatar. And my alt doesn't mission in motsu either.

So this is all pretty academic really.

And TBH, I would enjoy the pvp encounters resulting from aggro rights from salvage ***gotry more than I would care about protecting my salvage.

Nathanial Victor
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.06.27 21:05:00 - [68]
 

again, getting pretty off topic about presuming its better a mission runner wouldn't want kill right, discussing the flaws of ppls setups if they even HAD the kill right, blah blah...

how does this sound? salvager touches my wreck, i get kill rights, i target. one of 2 things then happens, he dies or he runs off, either way i have accomplished my goal, salvager is not stealing my stuff.

if he wants to show up for a fight over salvaging, let him. viola, we suddenly have some trace of a risk vs a reward.



Originally by: Quelque Chose
The Great Whine Cycle:


what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. Laughing

Xaen
Caldari
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2008.06.27 21:06:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Nathanial Victor
again, getting pretty off topic about presuming its better a mission runner wouldn't want kill right, discussing the flaws of ppls setups if they even HAD the kill right, blah blah...

how does this sound? salvager touches my wreck, i get kill rights, i target. one of 2 things then happens, he dies or he runs off, either way i have accomplished my goal, salvager is not stealing my stuff.

if he wants to show up for a fight over salvaging, let him. viola, we suddenly have some trace of a risk vs a reward.



Originally by: Quelque Chose
The Great Whine Cycle:


what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. Laughing
FYI, he probably has a pvp ship in reserve. If you engage in your mission ship you're a freaking moron.

Nathanial Victor
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.06.27 21:09:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Xaen


And TBH, I would enjoy the pvp encounters resulting from aggro rights from salvage ***gotry more than I would care about protecting my salvage.


yes. anything that promotes combat in eve is good
anything that promotes a free ride in eve is bad.

as for the above, engaging in mission ships. that a pilots call at the time whether to bug out and get a pvp ship or not. either way its silly to try and break it down to 'what ifs' and scenarios. makes as much sense as 'what if 1v1' thread.

its the principle of the matter, that i think we can agree on

Quelque Chose
New Eden Roller Disco Supply
Posted - 2008.06.27 21:16:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Nathanial Victor


what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. Laughing


On the contrary, sir. My idiotic response was coherent, completely logical and as concise as I could make it. I suppose I should also point out that unless you're using text- to- speech you didn't actually listen to it. You're not a subvocalizer are you?

However, please don't interrupt your fit of moral outrage just for my sake. By all means, continue. Cool

JanoMark
ANZAC ALLIANCE
IT Alliance
Posted - 2008.06.27 21:23:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Xparky
Originally by: "Nathanial Victor"

If you think about it, ppl that


run missions


in high sec are getting reward with 0 risk... especially if they are a member of newb corp (as you cant declare war on them).




Fixed that for you.


This.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2008.06.27 21:28:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Nathanial Victor
anything that promotes a free ride in eve is bad.
So you're saying we should do away with missions then?
After all, they offer the same risk, for higher rewards, with less work, than ninja salvaging…

Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.06.27 21:34:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Nathanial Victor
Edited by: Nathanial Victor on 27/06/2008 21:11:03
?

Whats up with that? If they loot a can i can pwn them. If they salvage a wreck i can't.

Is there some programing reason this isn't the same and its really hard to fix? (i'd find that hard to believe).
Is it intentional?

If you think about it, ppl that nija salavge in high sec are getting reward with 0 risk... especially if they are a member of newb corp (as you cant declare war on them).

Anyone want to clear this up for me? Am i missing something?

----------

edit: thanks for the clarification. This thread is now about discussing the ridiculous policy that wreck and their salvage is public domain while the loot inside of them is not.

Very Happy


It's because you're an abject failure, a.k.a. a carebear. If you were in 0.4 or lower, you would be able to shoot them regardless of what they're doing to your wreck.

Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.06.27 21:35:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Nathanial Victor
anything that promotes a free ride in eve is bad.
So you're saying we should do away with missions then?
After all, they offer the same risk, for higher rewards, with less work, than ninja salvaging…


No. After 60 days, kick players out of the NPC noob corps and into an NPC holding corp that is able to be war decced. Problem solved.

Xaen
Caldari
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2008.06.27 21:38:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Nathanial Victor
anything that promotes a free ride in eve is bad.
So you're saying we should do away with missions then?
After all, they offer the same risk, for higher rewards, with less work, than ninja salvaging…


No. After 60 days, kick players out of the NPC noob corps and into an NPC holding corp that is able to be war decced. Problem solved.
Good bye money maker alts, good bye newbies, good bye carebears, good bye CCP solvency.

Fool.

Amastat
Caldari
Blue Ring Defence
Posted - 2008.06.27 21:41:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Nathanial Victor
again, getting pretty off topic about presuming its better a mission runner wouldn't want kill right, discussing the flaws of ppls setups if they even HAD the kill right, blah blah...

how does this sound? salvager touches my wreck, i get kill rights, i target. one of 2 things then happens, he dies or he runs off, either way i have accomplished my goal, salvager is not stealing my stuff.

if he wants to show up for a fight over salvaging, let him. viola, we suddenly have some trace of a risk vs a reward.



Originally by: Quelque Chose
The Great Whine Cycle:


what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. Laughing


Well you arn't making any sense - if pro-salvage thief think that kill rights wouldn't be a problem for them, and that the mission runner has the wrong/flawed setups - then theres no argument and we should all be in agreement.

We aren't in agreement however, why this is?

It's because some people are absolutely happy with no risk, all this talk and debate is just a way to talk away from the matter at hand. However, this is all really pointless anyways.

The only real way salvage mechanics might be changed is if a political party is formed and enough support gets a voice on CSM, a voice that CCP will be forced to no longer ignore.

CCP has intentionally ignored this topic for a while, and they will always do so, until it's significant enough where they will have to listen wither they like it or not.

Amastat
Caldari
Blue Ring Defence
Posted - 2008.06.27 21:48:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Nathanial Victor
Edited by: Nathanial Victor on 27/06/2008 21:11:03
?

Whats up with that? If they loot a can i can pwn them. If they salvage a wreck i can't.

Is there some programing reason this isn't the same and its really hard to fix? (i'd find that hard to believe).
Is it intentional?

If you think about it, ppl that nija salavge in high sec are getting reward with 0 risk... especially if they are a member of newb corp (as you cant declare war on them).

Anyone want to clear this up for me? Am i missing something?

----------

edit: thanks for the clarification. This thread is now about discussing the ridiculous policy that wreck and their salvage is public domain while the loot inside of them is not.

Very Happy


It's because you're an abject failure, a.k.a. a carebear. If you were in 0.4 or lower, you would be able to shoot them regardless of what they're doing to your wreck.


^^^ this Laughing

I love how people/alts defend ninja salvager's and accuse carebears as having too much money for low risk, where it turns out the guys they are defending are actually practicing the most risk-free profession in the game - even more soft than mission running.

All the yarrs should be bashing the ninja salvager's for being the bigger of rich-cowards, not as much the carebears - the carebears you can at least shoot some of the time.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2008.06.27 21:54:00 - [79]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 27/06/2008 21:55:13
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
No. After 60 days, kick players out of the NPC noob corps and into an NPC holding corp that is able to be war decced. Problem solved.
Funny that. All the ninja salvagers I've come across have been in PC corps…

Also, what would it solve, seing as how ninja salvaging isn't a problem?

Amastat
Caldari
Blue Ring Defence
Posted - 2008.06.27 21:55:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
No. After 60 days, kick players out of the NPC noob corps and into an NPC holding corp that is able to be war decced. Problem solved.
Funny that. All the ninja salvagers I've come across have been in PC corps…


I've noticed this too. That would be a cool thing to have, but cow's will fly before then...

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2008.06.27 22:07:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Amastat
That would be a cool thing to have, but cow's will fly before then...
So quite soon™ then?

Amastat
Caldari
Blue Ring Defence
Posted - 2008.06.27 22:14:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Amastat
That would be a cool thing to have, but cow's will fly before then...
So quite soon™ then?




LaughingLaughingLaughing

Aphoticus
Posted - 2008.06.27 23:05:00 - [83]
 

Um...aside from the debate, has anyone concidered why the OP is not salvaging while engaged in combat?

I always have my tractor beams going; I got junk flying all around me as I battle and salvage it while on the go.

Chi Quan
Bibkor Enterprises
Posted - 2008.06.27 23:45:00 - [84]
 

cause u cant tractor and salvage from 40+ km maybe? you can approach the wrecks yes, but
1. bs speed is not much
2. high slots = weapons to break bs tanks
3. it totally frags up tactical positioing

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2008.06.28 08:12:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: Chi Quan
cause u cant tractor and salvage from 40+ km maybe? you can approach the wrecks yes, but
1. bs speed is not much
Fit an AB?
Quote:
2. high slots = weapons to break bs tanks
Mission BS tanks can be broken with four medium weapons.
Quote:
3. it totally frags up tactical positioing
It's a mission. The NPC are dumb as nails. They'll come to you and sit at the same distance no matter what your positioning is.

Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
Posted - 2008.06.28 08:43:00 - [86]
 

FFS CCP needs to SORT OUT THEIR SEARCH FUNCTION OR BAN PEOPLE FOR MAKING THREADS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2008.06.28 08:48:00 - [87]
 

I really wish someone on CCP would say something useful like "there aren't supposed to be ownership rights on salvage" that I could just copy paste in to these threads. Honest to go, I'm losing the will to actually post a sensible argument for the billionth time.

Marlenus
Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
Posted - 2008.06.28 09:02:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Patch86
I really wish someone on CCP would say something useful like "there aren't supposed to be ownership rights on salvage" that I could just copy paste in to these threads. Honest to go, I'm losing the will to actually post a sensible argument for the billionth time.


You mean, like this:

Originally by: GM Faolchu
Salvaging other peoples wrecks…. This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage.

Eve is a harsh place you won’t always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn’t matter who just blew it up.


I've even got it here in "ready to paste" BB format.

Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2008.06.28 09:28:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: Marlenus
Originally by: Patch86
I really wish someone on CCP would say something useful like "there aren't supposed to be ownership rights on salvage" that I could just copy paste in to these threads. Honest to go, I'm losing the will to actually post a sensible argument for the billionth time.


You mean, like this:

Originally by: GM Faolchu
Salvaging other peoples wrecks…. This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage.

Eve is a harsh place you won’t always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn’t matter who just blew it up.


I've even got it here in "ready to paste" BB format.



Totally saved...

Taritura
Caldari
Achozen Dueces TecH
Posted - 2008.06.28 10:08:00 - [90]
 

Edited by: Taritura on 28/06/2008 10:10:37
This mechanic is totaly f......
If i steal your old car and leave the radio on street "concord" won't do anything.... This is sick.
Let's say you are fisher. You catch some fish and someone steals them from you. "Ok there were dead meet,junk that any one can take ..... " Or better i wreck my car and any one ....
What next maybe can "salvaging"... .


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