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blankseplocked Nano's aren't the problem, Stasis webifiers ARE!
 
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Kale Kold
Mindless Griefing
Posted - 2008.06.23 23:01:00 - [1]
 

Since the Faction War expansion nano fitted ships have increased ten fold. Trying to catch 'em is severly limited due to the absolute downright inadequate range of Stasis Webifiers. Just one pulse of a Micro Warp Drive and your webs are completely useless as their inertia carries them out of range in seconds.

I know some recons get a bonus to the range of webs, but, c'mon, recons always go pop first in any fight, thus totally negating their effect on a nano fleet.

CCP, please increase the range of webs to 24k to match the distrupters.

Thankyou.


Lorna Loot
Caldari
NibbleTek
Posted - 2008.06.23 23:06:00 - [2]
 

MOAR THREADS!!!!!


baltec1
Posted - 2008.06.23 23:12:00 - [3]
 

Just give us a new line of ships with the hugginns web range bonus for the other 3 empires. No nerfs and new ships, what can possibly be bad about that!


And seriously I am no fan of nano but even I think all these nano posts are getting to be too much...

VicturusTeSaluto
Gallente
Metafarmers
MeatSausage EXPRESS
Posted - 2008.06.23 23:13:00 - [4]
 

lol nub. Use a claymore in your half-assed fleet, and then train overloading. You get a highly long range web without faction webs or recons.

Kale Kold
Mindless Griefing
Posted - 2008.06.23 23:18:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto
lol nub. Use a claymore in your half-assed fleet, and then train overloading. You get a highly long range web without faction webs or recons.

Hmmm... the claymore has no web bonuses so i may as well fit an ibis with webs and overload them for a fantastic 13k range! Shocked Yeah that should do it! Oh wait... Rolling Eyes

Haakelen
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.06.23 23:19:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Kale Kold
Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto
lol nub. Use a claymore in your half-assed fleet, and then train overloading. You get a highly long range web without faction webs or recons.

Hmmm... the claymore has no web bonuses so i may as well fit an ibis with webs and overload them for a fantastic 13k range! Shocked Yeah that should do it! Oh wait... Rolling Eyes


Hint: Skirmish Warfare Link - Interdiction Maneuvers

Tamia Clant
New Dawn Corp
New Eden Research.
Posted - 2008.06.23 23:19:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Kale Kold
Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto
lol nub. Use a claymore in your half-assed fleet, and then train overloading. You get a highly long range web without faction webs or recons.

Hmmm... the claymore has no web bonuses so i may as well fit an ibis with webs and overload them for a fantastic 13k range! Shocked Yeah that should do it! Oh wait... Rolling Eyes


Claymore can fit warfare link mods though, one of them increases the range of your stasis webifiers.

Kale Kold
Mindless Griefing
Posted - 2008.06.23 23:25:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Kale Kold on 23/06/2008 23:25:40
Originally by: Haakelen
Hint: Skirmish Warfare Link - Interdiction Maneuvers

So months of training for command ships and months more for warlinks in order to take down ships that require half the training and are half the cost? Hmmm. something sounds like it needs balancing... and thats if you can lock them before they warp!!!

Haakelen
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.06.23 23:26:00 - [9]
 

Kale Kold thread


why did I post in

Kale Kold
Mindless Griefing
Posted - 2008.06.23 23:26:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Haakelen
Kale Kold thread


why did I post in

Obvious troll is obvious!

James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.06.23 23:27:00 - [11]
 

Actually, I think 'fixing' nanoships, is as simple as making precision heavy missiles actually able to hit something vaguely fast for sensible amounts of damage.

Haakelen
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.06.23 23:27:00 - [12]
 

I'm the troll

yes

You can put the link on a drake if you want, it won't work as well but every little bit helps.

Havohej
Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
Posted - 2008.06.23 23:38:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Kale Kold
Edited by: Kale Kold on 23/06/2008 23:25:40
Originally by: Haakelen
Hint: Skirmish Warfare Link - Interdiction Maneuvers

So months of training for command ships and months more for warlinks in order to take down ships that require half the training and are half the cost? Hmmm. something sounds like it needs balancing... and thats if you can lock them before they warp!!!


So months of training for HACs and/or Recons and months more to max out Navigation skills, rigging skills, gunner skills, missile skills and drone skills in order to be an effective nanoHAC/Recon pilot in order to take down noobs with less than half the training and paid less than a third of the cost of my nanoHAC/Recon? Hmmm, something sounds like it's balanced... and that's if you can learn how to play the game instead of whining about how somebody is better than you!!!

Tamia Clant
New Dawn Corp
New Eden Research.
Posted - 2008.06.23 23:40:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Kale Kold
Originally by: Haakelen
Hint: Skirmish Warfare Link - Interdiction Maneuvers

So months of training for command ships and months more for warlinks in order to take down ships that require half the training and are half the cost? Hmmm. something sounds like it needs balancing... and thats if you can lock them before they warp!!!


I can understand constructive criticism but this "omg I need to train more skills than my target" bullcrap is senseless. Do you also whine that you need a destroyer to kill a frigate? Or a battleship to destroy a battlecruiser?

And don't throw the "oh, but you can kill a frigate with a frigate" speech at me, because that also applies to nanoships.

Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Heretic Army
B A N E
Posted - 2008.06.23 23:52:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Kale Kold
Edited by: Kale Kold on 23/06/2008 23:25:40
Originally by: Haakelen
Hint: Skirmish Warfare Link - Interdiction Maneuvers

So months of training for command ships and months more for warlinks in order to take down ships that require half the training and are half the cost? Hmmm. something sounds like it needs balancing... and thats if you can lock them before they warp!!!


No, they work on battlecruisers too. Having a pilot skilled for leadership isnt a bad idea for any gang, and the warfare links are blatantly overlooked in the dps-frenzy of the eft-warriors.

Amy Wang
Posted - 2008.06.23 23:54:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Amy Wang on 24/06/2008 00:06:33
Originally by: James Lyrus
Actually, I think 'fixing' nanoships, is as simple as making precision heavy missiles actually able to hit something vaguely fast for sensible amounts of damage.


I find it an often overlooked fact in these discussions that all turret based nano ships need to slow down to actually hit anything, basically if they can hit you you can hit them unless you are using way bigger guns.

Take the vagabond for example, if it wants to do any damage with its guns it needs to turn the mwd off (which it cant run for more then a few cycles anyway) and then a lot of medium sized guns, heavy missiles and even cruise missiles can hit it just fine. In fact a vagabond facing say a drake or a cruise raven that has only a semi decent tank will simply not be able to kill it before it either has to run or die (apart from the fact that a decently tanked raven or drake can tank a vaga forever but thats another story).

Problems arise if the nano ship uses trackingless weapon systems like drones (best example is prolly the nano Ishtar which incidentally also has the highest effective dps of all hacs when nanod) or missiles. Those weapon systems can do damage while the ship using them is going way too fast to get hit with anything which arguably is a tad unbalanced.

But then again, you can alway shoot the drones to counter that and specialized missile ships are less suited to be nanod due to lack of low slots (if the cerb had more lows and could have a fast perma-mwding loadout like the Ishtar can I very much doubt we would read so many caldari wines btw Laughing).

Esmenet
Gallente
Posted - 2008.06.23 23:58:00 - [17]
 

Nanos are not the problem, neither is webs. Its militia pilots that is the problem.

Jack Jombardo
Amarr
Cosmic Allianz
Posted - 2008.06.23 23:59:00 - [18]
 

Huugin with 24km baserange webber anybody?

Haakelen
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.06.24 00:02:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Jack Jombardo
Huugin with 24km baserange webber anybody?


The man brings up a very good point, Kale.

Kale, what happens with faction and officer webs? What happens with overheating? What happens with the afformentioned warfare links you think are unreasonable to train for? You do realize that someone with Domi webs, overheated, with a maxed claymore in fleet (not unreasonable, at all, anymore), they'd probably be able to web out to 200km?

No.

Flipout
Gallente
Posted - 2008.06.24 00:02:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Kale Kold
Since the Faction War expansion nano fitted ships have increased ten fold. Trying to catch 'em is severly limited due to the absolute downright inadequate range of Stasis Webifiers. Just one pulse of a Micro Warp Drive and your webs are completely useless as their inertia carries them out of range in seconds.

I know some recons get a bonus to the range of webs, but, c'mon, recons always go pop first in any fight, thus totally negating their effect on a nano fleet.

CCP, please increase the range of webs to 24k to match the distrupters.

Thankyou.




Alright! Perfect idea! Then while we are at it lets just take interceptor's out of the game since they will be useless!

Hell yeah!

Bloody Rabbit
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.06.24 00:05:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Havohej
be an effective nanoHAC/Recon pilot in order to take down noobs with less than half the training and paid less than a third of the cost of my nanoHAC/Recon? Hmmm, something sounds like it's balanced... and that's if you can learn how to play the game instead of whining about how somebody is better than you!!!


There is your problem,
My crow is 25 million to fit
My recon is 150 million to fit

Thats a good 6 to 1 in cost but my recon can't be killed by an indy.

Armoured C
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2008.06.24 00:17:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Quelque Chose
Dear OP:

Please die in a fire.

Thanks,
Your Pals at New Eden Roller Disco Supply


epic lolified

Benedic
Posted - 2008.06.24 00:18:00 - [23]
 

Why stop at 24? Over 9000 tbh.

Dallas23
Posted - 2008.06.24 00:27:00 - [24]
 

personally I do not think there is any issure with nanos, overdrives, or even inertia stabs.
what needs to be fixed is micro warp drives.
possible fixes:
-treat mwd like warp, no targeting or being targeted.
-increase acceleration time to speed boost multiplier, mwd gives
600% then have it take that much longer to accelerate.
-remove inertia in the same way that the heavy interdictor suffers
when turning on a warp disruption generator.

these are jsut some suggestions any change would need to be tested so it does not become another issue in of it self.

Tankn00blicus
Cosmic Vacum Cleaners
Posted - 2008.06.24 01:28:00 - [25]
 

Buffing web would def make nanos more balanced, but guess what ship you just made completely useless... the hit-and-run vagabond, which is legit unlike ships such as the hit-while-running nanoomgwtfbbqishtar.

Atomos Darksun
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.06.24 01:38:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Quelque Chose
Dear OP:

Please die in a fire.

Thanks,
Your Pals at New Eden Roller Disco Supply
This.

Jmanis Catharg
Caldari
Dusk Blade Logisitcals
Posted - 2008.06.24 01:45:00 - [27]
 

Didn't webs used to have a 20k range?

overcorpse
Posted - 2008.06.24 02:04:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Haakelen
Originally by: Jack Jombardo
Huugin with 24km baserange webber anybody?


The man brings up a very good point, Kale.

Kale, what happens with faction and officer webs? What happens with overheating? What happens with the afformentioned warfare links you think are unreasonable to train for? You do realize that someone with Domi webs, overheated, with a maxed claymore in fleet (not unreasonable, at all, anymore), they'd probably be able to web out to 200km?

No.


So everyone should train up minmatar recons to stand a resonable chance of killing nanos.

Yup everything here looks balanced alrightRolling Eyes

El Mauru
Amarr
Interwebs Cooter Explosion
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2008.06.24 02:05:00 - [29]
 

Actually- I like that idea :-P

Put in webs with about 1.5 to 2.5 times the range but half the velocity modifier.

That way a single ships with one or even two of these "new" webs would not really be able to stop an experienced nano-pilot, but several of them might.

It also wouldn't make the hugin/rapier obsolete (actually- they'd end up overpowered :-S), but would make the whole nano-affair a bit more challenging.

ShardowRhino
Caldari
Torque Theory
Posted - 2008.06.24 02:08:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Havohej
Originally by: Kale Kold
Edited by: Kale Kold on 23/06/2008 23:25:40
Originally by: Haakelen
Hint: Skirmish Warfare Link - Interdiction Maneuvers

So months of training for command ships and months more for warlinks in order to take down ships that require half the training and are half the cost? Hmmm. something sounds like it needs balancing... and thats if you can lock them before they warp!!!


So months of training for HACs and/or Recons and months more to max out Navigation skills, rigging skills, gunner skills, missile skills and drone skills in order to be an effective nanoHAC/Recon pilot in order to take down noobs with less than half the training and paid less than a third of the cost of my nanoHAC/Recon? Hmmm, something sounds like it's balanced... and that's if you can learn how to play the game instead of whining about how somebody is better than you!!!


FAIL!!!!!!!!!!!
Lets not forget the fact that others ALSO use nav,rigging,gunnery ,missle and drone skills! All so we can't hit someone that can decide to warp off when they like. Also,no one is forcing you to sink X amount of isk in order to counter 99.9% other configs.

We can easily turn it around and say that if you learned to play the game you wouldn't need to drop so much isk into a ship to have a chance. We could say your a complete noob since your using what is equal to a ship full of unnerfed warpstabs.

1 kind of setup shouldn't be effective against all but 1 t2 ship of a specific race. Especially when theres various nano ship set ups.

Also it makes no sense that no one would come out with weapons and mods to counter this nanononsense. If anything Amarr and Caldari should be the ones with ships that get web range bonuses due to the fact that the other sides have ships meant for speed.

Again CCP should come out with various range and sizes of webs. Of course scripts would also help.


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