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Tarminic
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2008.06.17 18:23:00 - [1]
 

Most of the credit for this idea comes from here:
Linkage

Every T1 frigate for each race in EVE has a T2 counterpart - interceptors, assault frigates, covert ops, and Electronic Attack Frigates. However, the mining/cargo frigates have been completely left behind, relegated to use by trial accounts and misplaced purchases. But what role could they perform?

With the advent of Factional Warfare and size-restricted deadspace zones, I think that it's time these poor ships received a T2 hull, a role, and some general love. What role, you ask? Logistics Frigates!


General Design Principles:
-Reduced Signature Radius (Improved survivability, and in line with logistics ships)
-Reduced Mass (T1 cargo frigates are way too heavy for any kind of combat)
-T2 resistances (obviously)
-Marauder-like bonus for remote repair systems (compensates for low slot numbers and improves sustainability)
-Significantly improved sensor range/resolution

Logic Behind Them:
A frigate's biggest weakness is it's vulnerability, obviously. T2 resistances will help a little, but like interceptors, reduced signature radius will also go a long way towards saving them in an engagement. I choose to give them a marauder-style bonus to their repairers because this frees some slots for tanking (further improving survivability) and goes a long way towards cap sustainability as they'll probably be running MWDs for the duration of combat. The reduced mass allows them to actually benefit from using MWDs, though they should still have mass greater than average for their race. If the combination of capacitor reduction and a marauder-style role bonus is too much, you could change it to a 100% bonus to remote repair cycle time.

Now for some juicy examples:

T2 Navitas:
Slot Layout:
3 Low, 3 Medium, 2 High (2 Turret)

T1 Bonuses:
150% bonus to Remote Armor Repair System and Tracking Link range
5% Reduction to signature radius

T2 Bonuses:
10% Reduction to Remote Armor Repair Capacitor Use
5% Bonus to Tracking Link Effectiveness

Role Bonus:
+100% bonus to Remote Armor Repair System Transfer Amount

T2 Bantam:
Slot Layout:
2 Low, 4 Medium, 2 High (2 Turret)

T1 Bonuses:
150% bonus to Remote Shield Transfer and Remote Energy Transfer range
5% Reduction to signature radius

T2 Bonuses:
10% Reduction to Remote Shield Transfer Use
10% Reduction to Remote Energy Transfer Use

Role Bonus:
+100% bonus to Remote Shield Transfer Amount


A good idea? Or another horrible brain abortion from Tarminic?

Cinimrat
Amarr
Black Flame Industries
Posted - 2008.06.17 18:33:00 - [2]
 

Good one Tarminic! I am totally supporting this because I am in now way Tarminic's alt!

Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2008.06.17 18:36:00 - [3]
 

T2ing the cargo frigates might make sense, but logistics frigates generally don't. If anything, I'd like to see it go the other way and have us get logistics battleships. The logistics cruisers don't have much survivability as-is, there's no need to make them even more fragile.

How about something like making them "logistics" ships that actually do logistics, instead of being space medics? Strip out their combat capabilities, and have them be ships designed to carry ammo and cap boosters to the front. Give them a big cargo, the sig radius of an anorexic hummingbird, high agility and warp speeds, and the ability to transfer cargo without needing jetcans(or, at a minimum, the ability to jetcan every 10 seconds instead of every 3 minutes). It's something that wouldn't have a lot of use, in line with the fact that these frigates are crap, but it'd at least be new and interesting, with some possibility of utility.

Bish Ounen
Gallente
Best Path Inc.
Cult of War
Posted - 2008.06.17 18:45:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Bish Ounen on 17/06/2008 21:00:13
Wow Tarminic!

When you get your hands on an idea you RUN with it!

Nicely done!

I appreciate your support for my idea, it's really nice to see one of my general concepts fleshed out a bit more by someone so knowledgeable about Eve in general and fitting in specific. I do hope the CSM's can bring this to CCP as a possibility. It would really help out in FW warfare and fleet battles in general.

Mini-Logistics FTW!

Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2008.06.17 18:48:00 - [5]
 

For the sake of discursive fairness, it should be mentioned there are other good ideas for these frigates doing the rounds, including in the nether regions of the thread Tarminic linked to. My two other top favourites (the one in Tarminic's post rounding off my dream 3) are the Salvager Frigate, and the Gas Harvesting Frigate, both of which borne of the notion that these two "mini-professions" have no specialist ships at all.

Bish Ounen
Gallente
Best Path Inc.
Cult of War
Posted - 2008.06.17 21:00:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Patch86
For the sake of discursive fairness...


Well, this thread is about Logistics frigates. If you want discursive fairness, start your own thread and allow us to discuss your ideas on their own without hijacking someone else's thread.

Nothing personal, I just think those ideas deserve their own threads here to be voted yay or nay on.


Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2008.06.17 22:10:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Bish Ounen
Originally by: Patch86
For the sake of discursive fairness...


Well, this thread is about Logistics frigates. If you want discursive fairness, start your own thread and allow us to discuss your ideas on their own without hijacking someone else's thread.

Nothing personal, I just think those ideas deserve their own threads here to be voted yay or nay on.




No. No point spreading several ideas in a discussion about the leftover T1 frigs into several threads, when this thread isn't likely to be overly active anyway. Discussion is discussion, mon ami, and I plan on discussing every aspect of the idea in the OP- including it's alternatives.

Sovereign533
Caldari
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2008.06.17 22:53:00 - [8]
 

me like

Madam Kaktar
Jenova's Witnesses

Posted - 2008.06.18 01:25:00 - [9]
 

Coming up with a new ship type just to create a tech 2 version of a hull that hasn't been used yet usually ends badly. But this is a good idea.

Supported, but I'd like to see them differentiated from cruiser sized logistics in some way other than size.

Destovel
Posted - 2008.06.18 09:11:00 - [10]
 

I support this idea even though I don't think CCP will get the idea of what people actually want!

I was thinking that an anti-drone frig would be a good idea. A really fast ship with very high tracking speed bonuses but putting out less damage than a normal frig.

I donno, just an idea.

OrcishMonkey
Caldari
Domini Umbrus
DEFI4NT
Posted - 2008.06.18 09:33:00 - [11]
 

A Logistics frigate is a good idea but id like to take and do a different type of logistics support role. Since youve already got the cruiser sized "medics" i suggest you make the frigate version one that gives bonuses to various types of support not currently being bonused or being so but not used very often by any other ship such as remote sensor boosting, projected ECCM, tracking link, target painting. Make them essentially a little "Buff" mobile. It would give these forgotten frigs a role not filled by any other and maybe bring to use mods that arnt widly used atm.

Marus Safeld
Caldari
Trojans
Pride - Honor - Duty
Posted - 2008.06.18 10:47:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
... The logistics cruisers don't have much survivability as-is, there's no need to make them even more fragile. ...

Have you ever flown one? My corp flies them in duo's and they can soak up massive amounts of damage that way.
FC's have to decide whether to put their firepower onto 1 of them while having their fleet size reduced or trying to simply outdamage the repair amount of both of them.


A logistics frig would help in roaming gangs as currently cruisers defenitly lack when it comes to keeping frigates in shape.

Especially armor repairers have the problem that by the time you lock your target and have gone throu a cycle it is already gone. The use of maintenance drones doesn't help much either as usaly the frigates are simply too fast for them.

Logistics frigates with a decent bonus to repair range and a reduction in repper duration could provide effective repairs to frigates.

Barbaro55a
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.06.18 11:40:00 - [13]
 

Yer, me wants - but three high slots to run a small NOS as well as reps.

Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2008.06.18 17:06:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Marus Safeld
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
... The logistics cruisers don't have much survivability as-is, there's no need to make them even more fragile. ...

Have you ever flown one? My corp flies them in duo's and they can soak up massive amounts of damage that way.
FC's have to decide whether to put their firepower onto 1 of them while having their fleet size reduced or trying to simply outdamage the repair amount of both of them.


A logistics frig would help in roaming gangs as currently cruisers defenitly lack when it comes to keeping frigates in shape.

Especially armor repairers have the problem that by the time you lock your target and have gone throu a cycle it is already gone. The use of maintenance drones doesn't help much either as usaly the frigates are simply too fast for them.

Logistics frigates with a decent bonus to repair range and a reduction in repper duration could provide effective repairs to frigates.


No, but I'll be skilled into them in about two weeks. And my first comment was a bit dismissive - in small gangs they're just fine(see the Alliance Tournaments, for the most obvious example), but every account I've heard from people who use them is that once you get circa 20 on the opposing side, logistics cruisers just pop instantly. This is apparently why carriers get used for remote rep in fleets - they have the HP to take some hammering, even if they're less efficient in most senses of the word. I admit, this is second-hand, but it fits well with what I know of how everything works. But that said, how long could a logistics frigate survive even against a small gang? Rare is the frigate with more than a few thousand EHP, and it doesn't take much to pop that. You might keep frigates in shape a bit better, but your logistics ships will pop any time somebody breathes on them hard.

steejans nix
Amarr
Black Core Federation
Posted - 2008.06.19 07:11:00 - [15]
 

A good sugestion for a t2 version but personally i'd like to see a mini blockade runner, something more in keeping with it's T1 role which is basically a non combat vessel.

Would be great for hauling small stuff into low sec and would give the trader's and producers some reason to train frig 5.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong

Posted - 2008.06.19 08:11:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: MotherMoon on 19/06/2008 08:20:02
Edited by: MotherMoon on 19/06/2008 08:17:47
your post might be a little to late, but as a logtiiscs pilot I'm all for this. With FW it would be nice to fit in those gates :P

However lets think outside the box here tarminic, for one lets NOT make him tiny logtisics ship, yet have them serve the same goal. what the hell am I talking about? well I'll tell you:P

New module remote resistance amps

Basically a module that increases the targets Resistances! stacking nerf of course?
Or not just an idea :P

Another idea is to increase the mass 200% so that they don't go as fast but give them a 10-15% reduction to sigradius per level. maning they don't go fast but it takes a long time to lock them? hmm I don't know about that one :P

Also instead of 150% to range lets keep the long range to the cruiser put it down to 100%. 40km range for a frigates reps is awesome, doesn't need to be 60km.

EDIT:final note, it would be nice to see a hacking,slavaging,and mining frigate for these guys too, you know to stay true to the role of the tech 1 hull... oh wait right cruiser hull :P nvm, anyways, a frigate with say 300% to mining amount but only one turret hardpoint, and 300% to slavaging and such would be awesome.

Lil'Bunneh FoFo
THE FINAL STAND
Posted - 2008.06.19 08:24:00 - [17]
 

Supportin this

Bish Ounen
Gallente
Best Path Inc.
Cult of War
Posted - 2008.06.20 17:27:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Lil'Bunneh FoFo
Supportin this


Thanks!

BTW, Your sig is very disturbing to me. I find it deeply unsettling in ways I cannot explain.

;)

Foulque
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2008.06.20 17:55:00 - [19]
 


TimGascoigne
Sebiestor Tribe

Posted - 2008.06.20 18:28:00 - [20]
 

nice

marie blueprint
Posted - 2008.06.23 09:22:00 - [21]
 

good idea

Tamia Clant
New Dawn Corp
New Eden Research.
Posted - 2008.06.23 21:10:00 - [22]
 

Looks good.Very Happy

Havohej
Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
Posted - 2008.06.24 03:59:00 - [23]
 

I would sooo fly a T2 Logistics frigate in small gang work.

I was forum banned when you first posted this, but I'm unbanned now and supportin' as hard as I can.

Setana Manoro
Gallente
Firefly Inc.
Posted - 2008.06.24 14:48:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Tarminic
Most of the credit for this idea comes from here:
Linkage

Every T1 frigate for each race in EVE has a T2 counterpart - interceptors, assault frigates, covert ops, and Electronic Attack Frigates. However, the mining/cargo frigates have been completely left behind, relegated to use by trial accounts and misplaced purchases. But what role could they perform?

With the advent of Factional Warfare and size-restricted deadspace zones, I think that it's time these poor ships received a T2 hull, a role, and some general love. What role, you ask? Logistics Frigates!


General Design Principles:
-Reduced Signature Radius (Improved survivability, and in line with logistics ships)
-Reduced Mass (T1 cargo frigates are way too heavy for any kind of combat)
-T2 resistances (obviously)
-Marauder-like bonus for remote repair systems (compensates for low slot numbers and improves sustainability)
-Significantly improved sensor range/resolution

Logic Behind Them:
A frigate's biggest weakness is it's vulnerability, obviously. T2 resistances will help a little, but like interceptors, reduced signature radius will also go a long way towards saving them in an engagement. I choose to give them a marauder-style bonus to their repairers because this frees some slots for tanking (further improving survivability) and goes a long way towards cap sustainability as they'll probably be running MWDs for the duration of combat. The reduced mass allows them to actually benefit from using MWDs, though they should still have mass greater than average for their race. If the combination of capacitor reduction and a marauder-style role bonus is too much, you could change it to a 100% bonus to remote repair cycle time.

Now for some juicy examples:

T2 Navitas:
Slot Layout:
3 Low, 3 Medium, 2 High (2 Turret)

T1 Bonuses:
150% bonus to Remote Armor Repair System and Tracking Link range
5% Reduction to signature radius

T2 Bonuses:
10% Reduction to Remote Armor Repair Capacitor Use
5% Bonus to Tracking Link Effectiveness

Role Bonus:
+100% bonus to Remote Armor Repair System Transfer Amount

T2 Bantam:
Slot Layout:
2 Low, 4 Medium, 2 High (2 Turret)

T1 Bonuses:
150% bonus to Remote Shield Transfer and Remote Energy Transfer range
5% Reduction to signature radius

T2 Bonuses:
10% Reduction to Remote Shield Transfer Use
10% Reduction to Remote Energy Transfer Use

Role Bonus:
+100% bonus to Remote Shield Transfer Amount


A good idea? Or another horrible brain abortion from Tarminic?


I think you finally snapped. o.0

Straight Chillen
Gallente
Solar Wind

Posted - 2008.07.03 20:03:00 - [25]
 

sound and reasonable idea

Doc Extropy
Gallente
Cruentus Invicta
The Covenant Alliance
Posted - 2008.07.04 00:12:00 - [26]
 

Yeah, would be a nice addition.

2 remote reppers? :D

/me is a fan of spider gangs.

Elektrea
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.07.04 00:19:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Elektrea on 04/07/2008 00:19:28
Its good to have variety Smile

Hae t'Redd
Isonami Syndicate

Posted - 2008.07.07 16:56:00 - [28]
 

Excellent idea

Tzujeih
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.07.07 18:51:00 - [29]
 


nathaniel flanders
Posted - 2008.07.07 20:49:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Elektrea
Edited by: Elektrea on 04/07/2008 00:19:28
Its good to have variety Smile


this.


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