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blankseplocked [Request] FIX CTRL-Q as a "get out of pvp free card"
 
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Moostang
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.06.17 09:15:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Moostang on 20/06/2008 05:41:37
Edited by: Moostang on 17/06/2008 09:17:11
Edited by: Moostang on 17/06/2008 09:16:41
As with most other MMORPG games out, please implement a way to gracefully log out instead of simply closing the client.

Reasoning:
Insta logging by means of CTRL-Q or other client closing methods are used as a tactic in PvP. This has become a plague and needs to be cured. Players use it to avoid any risk in tresspassing into hostile space.

My idea for a Solution: (please post your own if you do not agree with mine)

Create a log off timer that allows a user to gracefully log off. Set this timer to 30 seconds or so. What this does is once you select log off, a timer starts that you can see. Once this timer hits zero, the game simply exits. I've played other MMORPG's that require you to "sit" for x amount of time before your character will be removed from the game world.

In order to start the graceful log off you will have to have the following requirements met:

Ship must be going less than 20 m/s.
Must not have an aggression timer.
Must not be cloaked.

The Graceful log off will not apply while in a station or within the shield of a pos (negotiable) as you will log off instantly anyway.

If you do NOT perform the new log off and wait for the timer then your ship will simply perform the standard emergency warp-off but stay in game for 15 minutes, just like if you were already agressed.

This change will ONLY affect those that use logging off as a way to avoid conflicts in hostile space as everyone else will be able to log off normally.

I am not requesting this to get easy kills, I get enough of those as is. I simply would like to have a fair chance to fend off our space against players that invade it but do not want to have any risk or consequences in doing so.







MJ Maverick
IronPig
Sev3rance
Posted - 2008.06.17 09:20:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: MJ Maverick on 17/06/2008 09:20:30
Won't work. Ctrl+Alt+Delete. ugh

Moostang
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.06.17 09:32:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Moostang on 17/06/2008 09:32:12
Edited by: Moostang on 17/06/2008 09:31:44
Originally by: MJ Maverick
Edited by: MJ Maverick on 17/06/2008 09:20:30
Won't work. Ctrl+Alt+Delete. ugh


If it's not graceful, you stay in game for 15 minutes (presuming you're not in station or pos), ctrl alt delete included.

Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr
House of El
Posted - 2008.06.17 09:53:00 - [4]
 

So, if i suddenly have to leave the house in a hurry, I have to wait till the game logs me out???
Ahm, no thanks, this is not WoW. Smile

Amalath Tari
Tau Online Explorator Corp
Posted - 2008.06.17 11:40:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes
So, if i suddenly have to leave the house in a hurry, I have to wait till the game logs me out???
Ahm, no thanks, this is not WoW. Smile

You can't wait 30-60 seconds to logout?
Or you could just ctrl-q right away, but you'd stay in space (at the emergency warp point) for 15 minutes.

It doesn't seem that bad of an idea. And it wouldn't affect most other players, as they could wait the 30-60 seconds, or simply be in station.

Lee ChanKa
WEPRA CORP
White Noise.
Posted - 2008.06.17 11:48:00 - [6]
 

as i sayed in deva post yea i suport this..no nead 15 min 2 stay in space 2 min is inafe for probing ass...so giwe me only 2 min il be hapy..and most of players

regard
lee aka ewqi

Wrangler Al
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.06.17 13:05:00 - [7]
 

This is a good idea...

It will also stop can tippers from tipping a can, logging out then back in with no agression..YARRRR!!

please stop this exploit!!!

Moostang
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.06.17 21:51:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes
So, if i suddenly have to leave the house in a hurry, I have to wait till the game logs me out???
Ahm, no thanks, this is not WoW. Smile



I agree, this game is not WoW. This is a game that is designed around PvP and Ctrl-q'ing is an exploit to escape consequences for purposely going into someone elses house and stealing or peeing on their stuff.

Waiting 30-60 seconds to properly log off is not hard to do. If you cannot gracefully log off and you're in hostile space then do not go into hostile space as that is just a risk you have to take when trespassing.


gunnar aztek
Gallente
Posted - 2008.06.17 22:23:00 - [9]
 

i support this idea, as long as that a player can not gracefully log off if he is flagged at all (except against rats ?)

Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
Posted - 2008.06.17 22:29:00 - [10]
 

Umm... don't any of you read the other posts?

People are complaining about being lagged or disconnected, and coming back to a wreck and a pod.

Now you're saying if they disconnect, their ship should sit around and "take one for the team". That way, when you do get back, you'll be waking up in a new body.

You can't have it both ways. You can't have a mechanic that gets you out of harms way, and a mechanic that keeps you rooted in that same position, at the same time.

Moostang
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.06.17 23:52:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Moostang on 17/06/2008 23:53:31
Edited by: Moostang on 17/06/2008 23:52:32
Originally by: Marcus Gideon
Umm... don't any of you read the other posts?

People are complaining about being lagged or disconnected, and coming back to a wreck and a pod.

Now you're saying if they disconnect, their ship should sit around and "take one for the team". That way, when you do get back, you'll be waking up in a new body.

You can't have it both ways. You can't have a mechanic that gets you out of harms way, and a mechanic that keeps you rooted in that same position, at the same time.


Please read my post in full before replying. Note the following in my original post:

If you do NOT perform the new log off and wait for the timer then your ship will simply perform the standard emergency warp-off but stay in game for 15 minutes, just like if you were already agressed.

You will STILL perform the standard emergency warp-off, you just wont completely vanish from space like you do now. No one ever suggested that you become "rooted in the same position" as you put it. My request will not affect anyone else except people that use ctrl-q as a tactic to avoid conflict in hostile areas. NPC's do not probe and hunt you after you warp so emergency warping and being in game for 15 minutes will not affect you if you get lagged or disconnected any more than it does now.


Cyberman Mastermind
Posted - 2008.06.18 13:31:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Moostang
My request will not affect anyone else except people that use ctrl-q as a tactic to avoid conflict in hostile areas.

So you want them to ALT-F4, or rip out the network cable?

Imaos
Posted - 2008.06.18 15:00:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Cyberman Mastermind
Originally by: Moostang
My request will not affect anyone else except people that use ctrl-q as a tactic to avoid conflict in hostile areas.

So you want them to ALT-F4, or rip out the network cable?


Hey Mastermind. The effects of ALT-F4, CTRL-Q or ripping the cable would be he same. And I really like the 15min timer after emergency warp out.

Imaos

Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
Posted - 2008.06.18 15:46:00 - [14]
 

Actually... Alt F4 activates one of your modules. Laughing

z0de
The Bastards
The Bastards.
Posted - 2008.06.18 15:49:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: z0de on 18/06/2008 15:52:01
So if my connecting drops I have to sit in space for 15mins?

Moostang
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.06.18 23:28:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Moostang on 18/06/2008 23:32:48
Edited by: Moostang on 18/06/2008 23:30:15
Edited by: Moostang on 18/06/2008 23:28:15
Originally by: z0de
Edited by: z0de on 18/06/2008 15:52:01
So if my connecting drops I have to sit in space for 15mins?


You'll warp 1au off just like you do now, but instead of intantly disappearing from this safespot, you're ship will still be there. This is NO different than if you were agressed, unless you gracefully log off.

Do you believe it is acceptable to use the ability to sever your connection to the internet at a whim as a valid tactic to avoid hostiles in hostile space?

I'm simply asking for a comprimise. A simple 30 or 60 second graceful log off in return for the elimination of the ctrl-q exploit.

Your ship will still perform the emergency warp off to a 1au safe spot from where you previously were, which will still keep you safe from NPC's and anyone without a probe launcher.






Merroki
Posted - 2008.06.19 01:43:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Merroki on 19/06/2008 01:44:57
I would like to add my non-support to this. Regardless of how many WoW clones out there implementing this, I'm a firm believer that the 60s log out mechanic is an incredibly pretentious decision on the part of a game designer. It is basically claiming ownership of a user's time, AFTER said user has signified that they don't want to spend any more.

Sure, many hard core players of the game may not mind, but the world is not full of hard core players. And just because WoW and the legion of WoW wannabes do it, does not make it right. This is poor a design, plain and simple.

Kakita Jalaan
Viriette Commerce and Holding
Posted - 2008.06.19 09:58:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Kakita Jalaan on 19/06/2008 09:59:11
Actually, I think this is way more sensible in Eve than in WoW, because in WoW there are no true consequences to PVP or PVE death. But in a game with consequences like Eve, you shouldn't be able to circumvent them that easily.

If you're in a situation where you are in immediate danger unless you're logging off right now (and not in 30 seconds), you shouldn't get out of it as easily as logging off. Eve goes on when you're not looking, I think bringing this point home with a bit more consequence would not hurt the game, and it would at the same time get rid of some annoying "tactics".

Koyama Ise
Caldari
Posted - 2008.06.19 10:47:00 - [19]
 

No this can cause you to get owned in a power outage. Cause people can bring probes.

Elhina Novae
HAMMER -N- SICKEL
Posted - 2008.06.19 11:30:00 - [20]
 

I think the easy fix would be as in many other mmmo's.

Ok firstly, you can be cloaked if you log off, BUT you are not allowed too actually move, also if you got aggression you can't log either. Once you press the log off button a 20 sec timer begins, during this time you can only chat (if you for some reason want too), but you're not allowed too control your ship in any kind of way.

If you CTRL+Q, CTRL+ALT+DELETE then the 20sec timer will also begin, but you won't see what's going on, and this won't work as for escaping PVP.

Kakita Jalaan
Viriette Commerce and Holding
Posted - 2008.06.19 11:37:00 - [21]
 

What happens in competitive online games, say Counter Strike, when one of the players suffers from a power outage, a crashed PC or a crashed program?

I would bet that's a case of "tough ****" for the player, and everybody gets on with business as usual. It's not CCP's responsibility to make sure somebody PC runs without a hickup, and power outages can hit everybody and anybody, it's higher force.

Duhmad IbnRa
Gallente
EvE Dynamo
Posted - 2008.06.19 14:44:00 - [22]
 

i like it, it is simple and effective, one a side note: give drones an emergency warp & dock!!! i hate losing them to rats because of DCs. also, where are the health bars for drones inside drone bays that were promised with the drone nerf?????? Rolling Eyes

Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
Posted - 2008.06.19 15:56:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Duhmad IbnRa
i like it, it is simple and effective, one a side note: give drones an emergency warp & dock!!! i hate losing them to rats because of DCs. also, where are the health bars for drones inside drone bays that were promised with the drone nerf?????? Rolling Eyes


This I've love to see. Our ships go into self-preservation mode, but happen to have a whole squad of drones to float. NPCs tend to shoot them out of the sky, and PCs scoop them up and sell them back to you later.

Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
Posted - 2008.06.19 16:22:00 - [24]
 

/signed, basically

The idea is one I've supported for a long time. The only thing I'd tweak with the OP's version is the timer for "ungraceful logoffs". Unaggressed, I think it should be more like 5 minutes than 15. (It would still be 15 with aggression though.)

Zirconium Blade
Ass Pounding Space Monkeys
Posted - 2008.06.19 17:04:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Zirconium Blade on 19/06/2008 17:06:10
Seems superfluous, seeing as you already stay in the game for a set amount of time (depending on flags etc) when you log off

Edit: I see that you actually just want people who logged off in space to stay for 15 minutes. Oh, go cry about it.

Moostang
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.06.19 21:47:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Moostang on 19/06/2008 21:49:42
Edited by: Moostang on 19/06/2008 21:47:48
Originally by: Zirconium Blade
Edited by: Zirconium Blade on 19/06/2008 17:06:10
Seems superfluous, seeing as you already stay in the game for a set amount of time (depending on flags etc) when you log off

Edit: I see that you actually just want people who logged off in space to stay for 15 minutes. Oh, go cry about it.


You obviously do not have a good understanding of game mechanics. When you log out at this time, you stay in game long enough for your ship to emergency warp and maybe another 10-20 seconds after that. Also, if you hit warp and log off while in warp, you vanish mid warp.

When you jump through a gate and there are hostiles there, a simple ctrl q will save you most of the time unless you're in a ship that doesnt have enough hp buffer to keep you alive for the matter of seconds you stay in game.

If you tackle someone fair and square and they hit ctrl q, it will save them most of the time unless they're in a ship that doesnt have enough hp buffer to keep them alive for the matter of seconds you stay in game.

This is a huge exploit, plain and simple. I am confused at anyone that supports an exploit unless you're one of the ones using it. No one should have a "get out of danger free" card.

I'm completely flexible about the timers in my original post. I threw those numbers in to give players a better understanding of what the problem and possible solution is.

Modified solution:
For instance, a 30 second graceful logoff timer would be acceptable. And if you dont gracefully log out, you only stay in game for 5 minutes after you ctrl q out. However, the way aggression currently works would need to be changed as well. I believe that whether you are shooting OR SHOT AT, the 15 minute aggression timer should apply. That way, if you jump into a hostile gate camp, or if someone finds you and tackles you, and you hit ctrl q, it WILL NOT SAVE YOU because the 15 minutes aggression timer will start which keeps you in game for 15 minutes.

If you agree with the idea, reply. If you disagree with this idea, reply and explain why and let's discuss an alternative that will be a fair comprimise to squash this exploit.


annab
Amarr
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2008.06.19 23:24:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: annab on 19/06/2008 23:31:07
Personally the log off problem can be solved alot better than the graceful log off.

1. If your warp jammed you can't warp. Logged on or off. Simply the emergency warp out is jammed and your ship will try to move away. The ship will be able to use AB or MWD. If out of range you go to warp.

2. If your in warp and log. You warp to the location and then start a emergency warp out. If you hit a bubble or someone jams you see 1.





Merroki
Posted - 2008.06.19 23:40:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Merroki on 19/06/2008 23:42:52
I support annab's suggestion.

I also find this whole "graceful log off" to be pretty ironically named, as I consider the game just closing (as now) and have mechanics that don't break when the player chooses to quit to be much more graceful than needing a 30-60s crutch to fix the game.

Anyway, a line has to be drawn somewhere between game fairness and user inconvenience, and it isn't like the line hasn't already been drawn..

Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
Posted - 2008.06.19 23:52:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: annab

Personally the log off problem can be solved alot better than the graceful log off.

1. If you're warp jammed you can't warp. Logged on or off. Simply the emergency warp out is jammed and your ship will try to move away. The ship will be able to use AB or MWD. If out of range you go to warp.

2. If you're in warp and log. You warp to the location and then start a emergency warp out. If you hit a bubble or someone jams you see 1.


This sounds perfectly logical.

Moostang
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.06.20 05:28:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Moostang on 20/06/2008 05:43:55
Edited by: Moostang on 20/06/2008 05:42:20
Originally by: annab
Edited by: annab on 19/06/2008 23:31:07
Personally the log off problem can be solved alot better than the graceful log off.

1. If your warp jammed you can't warp. Logged on or off. Simply the emergency warp out is jammed and your ship will try to move away. The ship will be able to use AB or MWD. If out of range you go to warp.

2. If your in warp and log. You warp to the location and then start a emergency warp out. If you hit a bubble or someone jams you see 1.




.1: That is currently how it is but within 30 seconds (maybe 60) your ship will disappear because GETTING attacked does not cause any aggression timers to activate. So if a bs jumps into through a gate into a few ceptors or other low dps ships, they wont be able to kill them before the ship disappears. There needs to be an aggression timer when getting attacked.

.2: This is a good start but will not fix anything for people that simply ctrl q in a belt or ss when a hostile jumps into system. They will emergency warp and instantly vanish within a few seconds of exiting warp. If NPC's caused the aggression timer to activate it would be an acceptable comprimise. That way if they log out in a belt, such as alot of farmers do, they'll be probe-able for the standard 15 minute aggression timer.

Note: Updated thread title to reflect the goal of this thread.


 

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