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Duhmad IbnRa
Gallente
EvE Dynamo
Posted - 2008.06.16 15:08:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Duhmad IbnRa on 16/06/2008 17:19:42
Ok, i dont know if this has been proposed before but here is what i believe might solve the nano issue:

First: ALL MWDs should be affect by warp scramblers/disrupters/bubbles.
Second: Ships that are supposed to be fast (all t2 frigs /Dictors?/***abond) should get the ability to use an Afterburner of the next bigger ship class.
Third: Ceptors should have their Signature radius bonus turned into a speed and agility bonus (mass reduction bonus maybe?)

This solves the following problems:
AFs become more useful, since they will be much faster without the signature being increased.
All ships that are supposed to be fast, remain fast. with the added bouns of now being fast with a small signature.
All other ships still have the option to be very fast, but tactical useability is reduced.

Edit: comments appreciated...

Najri
Got Buddha
Posted - 2008.06.16 17:24:00 - [2]
 

A simple solution to nano-abuse would be a longrange webbifying-smartbomb.

As mentionned in my pirate's ideas post

Duhmad IbnRa
Gallente
EvE Dynamo
Posted - 2008.06.16 17:44:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Najri
A simple solution to nano-abuse would be a longrange webbifying-smartbomb.

As mentionned in my pirate's ideas post


no, sorry, your webbing smartbomb would make minmatar ewar frigs and recons obsolete and all speed dependent ships flying coffins..

my approach keeps speed dependent ships the way they are and doesnt make webbing ships useless, it simply changes the skill and modules required, while making ships that are not supposed for nano tactics less useful as such in empire and lesser useful in 0.0. The player still decides for himself though (therfore its not a nerf).

Claude Costello
Posted - 2008.06.16 19:26:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Claude Costello on 16/06/2008 19:29:33
Why not do something different ... fixed speed bonus for mwd like:

1mn mwd = 2000m/s
10mn mwd = 1000m/s
100mn mwd = 500m/s

and all other speed mods only affect the base speed, not the mwd bonused speed. CCP could then add some nice bonus modifiers to ships that are supposed to go fast. Like interceptors get a 25% bonus to mwd speed per level. etc. pp.

problem solved Twisted Evil

Duhmad IbnRa
Gallente
EvE Dynamo
Posted - 2008.06.16 19:46:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Claude Costello
Edited by: Claude Costello on 16/06/2008 19:29:33
Why not do something different ... fixed speed bonus for mwd like:

1mn mwd = 2000m/s
10mn mwd = 1000m/s
100mn mwd = 500m/s

and all other speed mods only affect the base speed, not the mwd bonused speed. CCP could then add some nice bonus modifiers to ships that are supposed to go fast. Like interceptors get a 25% bonus to mwd speed per level. etc. pp.

problem solved Twisted Evil


too much uniformity if you ask me...


Duhmad IbnRa
Gallente
EvE Dynamo
Posted - 2008.06.17 13:46:00 - [6]
 

considering the outcry about nano going to be nerfed in the near future i had hoped for more constructive input early up, so that the devs don't do a 'zulupark' again...

instead, noobs post about 'med slot warpcore stabs' and similar nonsense, spamming this forum....

Almost feels like CAOD.. Rolling Eyes

Angelica Tharax
Caldari
Farstriders
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2008.06.20 08:13:00 - [7]
 

The basic premise is interesting- and something I've been thinking about as well.
My idea was limited to warp disruption bubbles though and left out disruptors and the changes to the "fast ship" class.

The Problem I see with allowing the vaga to mount an 100MN AB is that you've just created a 5km/s+ monster that is utterly unhittable with almost all the weapons in the game because it also has a 115m2 signature radius.
In fact, implementing your entire change would be a buff to nanoships, unfortunately.

Jalif
Minmatar
Snuff Box
Posted - 2008.06.20 08:49:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Jalif on 20/06/2008 09:04:19
Edited by: Jalif on 20/06/2008 08:49:04
Originally by: Duhmad IbnRa
Edited by: Duhmad IbnRa on 16/06/2008 17:19:42
Ok, i dont know if this has been proposed before but here is what i believe might solve the nano issue:

First: ALL MWDs should be affect by warp scramblers/disrupters/bubbles.
Second: Ships that are supposed to be fast (all t2 frigs /Dictors?/***abond) should get the ability to use an Afterburner of the next bigger ship class.
Third: Ceptors should have their Signature radius bonus turned into a speed and agility bonus (mass reduction bonus maybe?)

This solves the following problems:
AFs become more useful, since they will be much faster without the signature being increased.
All ships that are supposed to be fast, remain fast. with the added bouns of now being fast with a small signature.
All other ships still have the option to be very fast, but tactical useability is reduced.

Edit: comments appreciated...


I like your idea very much. Specially the MWD should be affected by those modules you mentioned because it is a micro WARP drive. SO fitting a MWD won't be a necesary module to fit on every single ship.

EDIT 2: Just watch, a very good & solid idea has broughed out. But just watch, this topic will die out in a day, like any good idea which can improve eve.

EDIT: /SIGNED

The Tzar
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2008.06.20 13:08:00 - [9]
 

It's been said before but look at the reason why some area's are so nano-prevelant.

Hi and losec are fine for nano's as they can't survive gate guns for very long and have to bug out.

Nullsec would use more non-nano ships if hotdropping wasn't so common. I for one would always fly a BS if it wasn't a constant fear of being cap blobbed.

Introduce mobile cyno jammer's as a module for HIC's and watch people leave their nano's at home for more classic EvE-style slugfest with damage boats.

After all, everyone wants to be at the top of the killmail Very Happy

Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2008.06.20 19:47:00 - [10]
 

NOT signed.

Not every ship fitting a MWD is a nano-ship - far from it. Null only goes so far with blasters, and do you remember the minor threadnought about Raven vs Megathron when that change occured? Now you're trying to tell me that giving ships a 24km blaster-ship 'web' is a good idea for the game? Do you even fly your racial ships?

Also, MWD is the only thing that can save you if you hit a bubble. Just read the many archived discussions about web bubbles and why they are bad.

Jalif
Minmatar
Snuff Box
Posted - 2008.06.20 21:35:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin
NOT signed.

Not every ship fitting a MWD is a nano-ship - far from it. Null only goes so far with blasters, and do you remember the minor threadnought about Raven vs Megathron when that change occured? Now you're trying to tell me that giving ships a 24km blaster-ship 'web' is a good idea for the game? Do you even fly your racial ships?


What the helll do you mean, do you even fly your racial ships?
If anybody would destroy a mega they would have to get close anyway.
If they don't get close they either use nano, or sniping & your are screwed anyways, in current system & in this system.

Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin
, MWD is the only thing that can save you if you hit a bubble. Just read the many archived discussions about web bubbles and why they are bad.


Your own bloody fault you don't use scouts?

Valandril
Caldari
Ex-Mortis
Posted - 2008.06.20 21:43:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Jalif
Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin
NOT signed.

Not every ship fitting a MWD is a nano-ship - far from it. Null only goes so far with blasters, and do you remember the minor threadnought about Raven vs Megathron when that change occured? Now you're trying to tell me that giving ships a 24km blaster-ship 'web' is a good idea for the game? Do you even fly your racial ships?


What the helll do you mean, do you even fly your racial ships?
If anybody would destroy a mega they would have to get close anyway.
Especialy ravens, "keep at range 22, scram, nuke till he die" leaving any blasthron w/o smallest chance.
So what the hell do you mean ?

by the way, all those supposed "nano fixes" are more stupid/imbalanced than nano itself.

Jalif
Minmatar
Snuff Box
Posted - 2008.06.20 23:12:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Valandril
Originally by: Jalif
Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin
NOT signed.

Not every ship fitting a MWD is a nano-ship - far from it. Null only goes so far with blasters, and do you remember the minor threadnought about Raven vs Megathron when that change occured? Now you're trying to tell me that giving ships a 24km blaster-ship 'web' is a good idea for the game? Do you even fly your racial ships?


What the helll do you mean, do you even fly your racial ships?
If anybody would destroy a mega they would have to get close anyway.
Especialy ravens, "keep at range 22, scram, nuke till he die" leaving any blasthron w/o smallest chance.
So what the hell do you mean ?

by the way, all those supposed "nano fixes" are more stupid/imbalanced than nano itself.


A Megatron flies faster then a Raven so a Mega would be able to get close range.
Also take in count if you arive at the raven you still have a few sec to MWD to him & get closer until he activetes his scram.
What you can also do is get out of scram range (because you are faster) & get out, or MWD into him & still pwn him?
With this system you would be able to fit a AB & still get closer to the raven cause if a raven fits a MWD/AB its tank will be **** & no matter if you are 1000m or 10000m from him, you will destroy his tank rather fast.

Valandril
Caldari
Ex-Mortis
Posted - 2008.06.20 23:25:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Valandril on 20/06/2008 23:28:25
Originally by: Jalif
Originally by: Valandril
Originally by: Jalif
Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin
NOT signed.

Not every ship fitting a MWD is a nano-ship - far from it. Null only goes so far with blasters, and do you remember the minor threadnought about Raven vs Megathron when that change occured? Now you're trying to tell me that giving ships a 24km blaster-ship 'web' is a good idea for the game? Do you even fly your racial ships?


What the helll do you mean, do you even fly your racial ships?
If anybody would destroy a mega they would have to get close anyway.
Especialy ravens, "keep at range 22, scram, nuke till he die" leaving any blasthron w/o smallest chance.
So what the hell do you mean ?

by the way, all those supposed "nano fixes" are more stupid/imbalanced than nano itself.


A Megatron flies faster then a Raven so a Mega would be able to get close range.
Also take in count if you arive at the raven you still have a few sec to MWD to him & get closer until he activetes his scram.
What you can also do is get out of scram range (because you are faster) & get out, or MWD into him & still pwn him?
With this system you would be able to fit a AB & still get closer to the raven cause if a raven fits a MWD/AB its tank will be **** & no matter if you are 1000m or 10000m from him, you will destroy his tank rather fast.
Wohooo again instead discussing point, somoene just nitpick an example \o/
And only one person earlier pointed me 10m/s advantage as something huge in megat vs raven, and that was bloody lvl4 carebear.
And yea, ab blasterboats ftw \o/

Hellaciouss
Genco
Posted - 2008.06.21 02:16:00 - [15]
 

Add scripts to webifiers that increase range but decrease the slow % to 25 out to 25km.

Rapiers still hold their higher web range and higher web % at range.

PROBLEM EFFIN FIXED! and damned easy to do to boot.

JVol
Amarr
The IMorral MAjority
Posted - 2008.06.21 07:10:00 - [16]
 

IMO< Nannos are a great addition to eve, they give not so good PvP'ers a leg up in combat. Should they be nerfed? Hell no !! Heres the answer(s).


1) make neuts and webs have more trainable skills. Skills to increase their range, their drain/web percentage. Sick of nanof*gs?? Then you spend a bit of time getting your t1 web/neut to hit 15-17km before you overheat it. THEN when the gents who scream, "FIT A WEB/NEUT if you wanna kill nannos" actually have something instead of the useless hollow advice they generally spout. What good is a neut or a web that only reaches 12-13km when they orbit you from 19km plus? Useless!! It would make a one v one's in BC sized ships and smaller viable again. At this time only heavy neuts are viable, that means CCP is saying you need a BS to counter a nano cruiser. unbalanced in any stretch of the imagination

Currently if your caught by a nano ishtar in your 'tank' ishtar( replace 'ishtar' with any other ship in the game if you like that can be nannoed, same outcome ) your just dead, your web or your neut you so wisely fit is useless,(unless of course your using rare faction gear) and the nano knows this. Ships of the same class and race should not be invulnerable to each other just because of their speed.

2) Give the missiles that were designed to kill fast movers enough love to actually harm fast movers, either outright buff them or add skills to further increase expl velocity ect.


3) Seems to me nanos are here to stay. like it or not. If you guys are going to get what you want, = game balance, stop asking for what CCP clearly doesn't want to give and start asking for what they what they are more likely to give... skill sets designed to ACTUALLY counter an obvious imbalance.

Once a guys be-bopp'n thru the belts in his '********' ( place any ship under BS here )and gets jumped by a nano version of his same ship AND his training and fitting ACTUALLY either help him kill or escape his nanno counterpart without having to have a hugin/rapier/hyena in his back pocket you will see this nanno trend dry up to a large extent.

Now, BATHE YOUR WOMEN AND BRING THEM TO ME!! JVOL has spoken! :)

Duhmad IbnRa
Gallente
EvE Dynamo
Posted - 2008.06.21 13:03:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin
NOT signed.

Not every ship fitting a MWD is a nano-ship - far from it. Null only goes so far with blasters, and do you remember the minor threadnought about Raven vs Megathron when that change occured? Now you're trying to tell me that giving ships a 24km blaster-ship 'web' is a good idea for the game? Do you even fly your racial ships?

Also, MWD is the only thing that can save you if you hit a bubble. Just read the many archived discussions about web bubbles and why they are bad.


sorry but if you hit a bubble solo, you wont escape unless you cloak up, if you hit it with a bigger gang you just jump through and kill what you can catch, if you hit it with a smaller gang you reroute or suicide. MWDing out of a bubble is more a convenience than a must.

secondly warp scramblers/disrupters wouldnt be webbers, because webbers reduce your speed almost instantly, while scramblers/disrupters would forcibly turn your mwd off, so you would still have inertial to go on, and from my experience, once u r past the 20k distance you dont need another mwd cycle to get face to face with ur target.

but since i can understand your concern, how about giving t2 mwds with these changes 1 point of warpcore strength? if you fit t1 u are ****ed, but with t2s only bubbles and scramblers (7k) can hurt you...


 

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