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Boz Well
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.06.11 16:48:00 - [1]
 

Hey all. I recently bought myself a new'ish Amarr char with about 13mil sp to play with. I'd been using him as support DPS for missions, in a geddon with sentry drones and beam lasers. I'm keeping the geddon for my support DPS ship, but I'm thinking I wouldn't mind having a ship he can solo in. So, I'm thinking about getting an Abaddon for soloing, and I'm trying to work out the fit. I don't yet have t2 pulse on him, and so I'm planning to go with beam lasers (makes it a bit tight). I threw together what is probably cookie cutter:

[Abaddon, Mission]
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Large Armor Repairer II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Ultraviolet L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Ultraviolet L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Ultraviolet L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Ultraviolet L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Ultraviolet L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Ultraviolet L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Ultraviolet L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Ultraviolet L

Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hammerhead I x5

That fits with 30 grid remaining, and a decent bit of cpu left (126). It's cap stable with ultraviolet lenses, and cap lasts about 4 minutes with multifreq's and repper on. I'm curious though if I am going to have tracking issues with this fit. If I throw on a shadow serp. tracking comp, I lose some cap stability. I could consider removing a hardener and using a CPR perhaps to make up for this, but then I'm not sure how the tank would hold up, haha. Any thoughts? Smile

FT Diomedes
Gallente
Factio Paucorum
Posted - 2008.06.11 16:54:00 - [2]
 

I would drop two of the hardeners. Replace one with a DCU II and the other with a Heatsink II.

Darth Vaders
Caldari
Divine Slaves
Posted - 2008.06.11 19:33:00 - [3]
 

Abaddon has many flaws for PvE unless you know exactly what you are doing.
DPS is crap considering you ll be fighting at around 50KM.
Cap is crap.
Speed/agility is crap.
If you can't solo lvl 4s in Apocalypse with Abaddon you fail for certain too.

Izanaki Kurita
Amarr
Veyr
Posted - 2008.06.11 19:35:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: FT Diomedes
I would drop two of the hardeners. Replace one with a DCU II and the other with a Heatsink II.


I would rather drop one hardener for CPR or if against sansha/bloods one of both for HS and CPR.

If you fit a CPR it also free's you a midslot for TC, which is always nice to have, esp so with beams. Othervice looks good to me, flying pretty much identical fit myself and never had any performance problems.

-Izzy

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2008.06.11 19:44:00 - [5]
 

You'll be happier in the Apoc, IMO.

-Liang

Izanaki Kurita
Amarr
Veyr
Posted - 2008.06.11 19:45:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Darth Vaders
Abaddon has many flaws for PvE unless you know exactly what you are doing.
DPS is crap considering you ll be fighting at around 50KM.
Cap is crap.
Speed/agility is crap.
If you can't solo lvl 4s in Apocalypse with Abaddon you fail for certain too.


DPS is 500ish with my skills, which are still lacking without drones to 50 km, which is pretty fine by me, it melts sanshas fast enough.

Cap holds for bit less than 9min with everything running which is way overboard for running sansha's since youre melting them so fast.

Speed/agility, who really needs if when running missions, just sit around aligned for "oh crap" moments if feel like, I never do.

Abaddon is imo easier to fly than a apoc, since you dont really need to do anything, just turn everything on and watch rats die, its not like they can break your tank, bar very very few missions.

This is assuming ofc you watch what you do and dont aggro the whole pocket at once..

-Izzy

Darth Vaders
Caldari
Divine Slaves
Posted - 2008.06.11 20:06:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Izanaki Kurita
Originally by: Darth Vaders
Abaddon has many flaws for PvE unless you know exactly what you are doing.
DPS is crap considering you ll be fighting at around 50KM.
Cap is crap.
Speed/agility is crap.
If you can't solo lvl 4s in Apocalypse with Abaddon you fail for certain too.


DPS is 500ish with my skills, which are still lacking without drones to 50 km, which is pretty fine by me, it melts sanshas fast enough.

Cap holds for bit less than 9min with everything running which is way overboard for running sansha's since youre melting them so fast.

Speed/agility, who really needs if when running missions, just sit around aligned for "oh crap" moments if feel like, I never do.

Abaddon is imo easier to fly than a apoc, since you dont really need to do anything, just turn everything on and watch rats die, its not like they can break your tank, bar very very few missions.

This is assuming ofc you watch what you do and dont aggro the whole pocket at once..

-Izzy


with max skills

Abaddon with 8 mega modulated beams and Ultraviolet Navy L hits at 53+20 for 510 dps

Apocalypse with 7 mega modulated beams (Gama Navy L) and 1 dual modulated heavy beam (xray navy L) reaches 52+20 for 544 dps can mount an ABII and still run everything for ever. The missions will be faster because traveling time between acceleration gates due to ABII will be shorter. No i don't use the ABII just to do that but i can't reveal you what other purpose serves me here. Cool


Izanaki Kurita
Amarr
Veyr
Posted - 2008.06.11 20:33:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Darth Vaders

with max skills

Abaddon with 8 mega modulated beams and Ultraviolet Navy L hits at 53+20 for 510 dps

Apocalypse with 7 mega modulated beams (Gama Navy L) and 1 dual modulated heavy beam (xray navy L) reaches 52+20 for 544 dps can mount an ABII and still run everything for ever. The missions will be faster because traveling time between acceleration gates due to ABII will be shorter. No i don't use the ABII just to do that but i can't reveal you what other purpose serves me here. Cool




Well with my skills (BS 4, LET 4, Supports mostly at 4 aswell) I do 451 dps to 48+19 with X-Ray on without drones, 519 with navy crystals, whereas on Apoc, its 405 with Gamma and 466 with AN Gamma. Similar cap stability and tank on both, but granted apoc goes faster as you can fit that AB ;)

With All V char geddon comes slightly ahead as you can fit pulses with locusts to push the optimal high enough.

-Izzy

Kebast
Posted - 2008.06.11 20:38:00 - [9]
 

With the recent change to the Apoc the above post is probably correct. I use a T2 mega Pulse setup with AB on my Abaddon and love it, but until you can do that you might be better served with the Apoc. Unless you aren't tanking and can throw a Targeting Computer and 3 heat sinks on there.

Izanaki Kurita
Amarr
Veyr
Posted - 2008.06.11 20:42:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Kebast
Unless you aren't tanking and can throw a Targeting Computer and 3 heat sinks on there.


Isnt that standard on every Abaddon fit against Sansha/BR? ;)

La5eR
Amarr
Infinite Improbability Inc
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2008.06.11 20:43:00 - [11]
 

[Abaddon, Mission Guristas LG]
Large Armor Repairer II
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L

Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I

Vespa II x5
Hornet II x5

Gank: 563 DPS
Tank: 1100 DPS



Izanaki Kurita
Amarr
Veyr
Posted - 2008.06.11 20:51:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: La5eR
[Abaddon, Mission Guristas LG]
Large Armor Repairer II
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L

Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I

Vespa II x5
Hornet II x5

Gank: 563 DPS
Tank: 1100 DPS





Umm, no damage mods? Who needs 1100 dps tank when less than 500 is more than enough for any mission (Well, barring AE bonus room)
Two LARs on resistance bonused BS is pretty overkill IMO, as is that high cap recharge. If missioning against Guristas, even low skilled Raven is better than Amarr ships, sadly ;(

In missions, gank is always the best tank ;)


Boz Well
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.06.11 22:13:00 - [13]
 

Sorry to make a post and then not follow it, haha. Had my nose in a book for the past few hours with a practice exam.

I'll map out an apoc fit and see how that looks. I'll have t2 pulse on this char soon (tm), and the abaddon looked pretty nice with pulse+scorch. The only real concern I had with my original fit was the lack of a tracking mod. The apoc I imagine will have a bit less tank, but the improved cap might help me fit a tracking comp more easily, and perhaps use better crystals due to the range boost.

I'm off to play with apoc setups, but if anyone has one that they like (non-t2 laser ones for now plz, haha), feel free to post. Wink

ArchBishop Stealth
Posted - 2008.06.11 22:21:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Izanaki Kurita
Originally by: La5eR
[Abaddon, Mission Guristas LG]
Large Armor Repairer II
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L

Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I

Vespa II x5
Hornet II x5

Gank: 563 DPS
Tank: 1100 DPS





Umm, no damage mods? Who needs 1100 dps tank when less than 500 is more than enough for any mission (Well, barring AE bonus room)
Two LARs on resistance bonused BS is pretty overkill IMO, as is that high cap recharge. If missioning against Guristas, even low skilled Raven is better than Amarr ships, sadly ;(

In missions, gank is always the best tank ;)




Was gonna say, that cap setup is hugely over stated. If you need all that and you're only running Mega Pulses you should double check your cap skills. That is rediculous IMO.

Izanaki Kurita
Amarr
Veyr
Posted - 2008.06.11 22:30:00 - [15]
 

For Apoc, id probably go in the lines of;

7x Mega Modulated Beam, 1x Dual Modulated Beam
2x CR II, TC II, one whatever, be it CR or AB or whatever
3x HS II, LAR II, 3x Specific Hardener
3x CCC

Change around the low slots for CPRs,hardeners etc until you find a suitable fit for your taste and your skills.

-Izzy

La5eR
Amarr
Infinite Improbability Inc
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2008.06.12 00:26:00 - [16]
 

ArchBishop Stealth youre retared, even with energy management V, Energy Systems Operation V, and Controlled Bursts V you STILL run into cap issues, this just seals the deal, unless you want to put in an officer mod youre not going to solve the cap issue.

Heres a slightly modified version for your ******ed thinking

[Abaddon, Mission Guristas LG]
Large Armor Repairer II
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Capacitor Power Relay II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Mega Pulse Laser II, Xray L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Xray L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Xray L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Xray L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Xray L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Xray L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Xray L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Xray L

Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I

Vespa II x5
Hornet II x5

Gank: 525 DPS
Tank: 1100 DPS.

Next time pull up EFT before you open your "fingers".

Elhina Novae
HAMMER -N- SICKEL
Posted - 2008.06.12 00:32:00 - [17]
 

Level 4 Missionrunner Apocalypse:

8 x Mega Modulated Pulse I w/ Amarr Navy Multifrequency/Xray/Standard

1 x Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer
3 x Cap Recharge II

1 x Large Armor Repair II
3 x Sansha Heat Sink
3 x Active Hardener, or 2 x Active Hardener II / 1 x Tracking Enhancer II

1 x Capacitor Control Circuit I
2 x Energy Locus I

Using this myself without a problem. Change the faction stuff for T2 if you don't want em.

Raniss
Posted - 2008.06.12 00:38:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Raniss on 12/06/2008 00:38:41
Originally by: La5eR

...personal insults...

[Abaddon, Mission Guristas LG]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I


Next time pull up EFT before you open your "fingers".


You can start feeling stupid now.

La5eR
Amarr
Infinite Improbability Inc
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2008.06.12 00:42:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: La5eR on 12/06/2008 00:44:41
Edited by: La5eR on 12/06/2008 00:44:16
If you want you could throw an HSII in there instead, with Energy mgmt IV, EOS V, and CB V you gain .1 cap/sec.


Kebast
Posted - 2008.06.12 01:50:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Kebast on 12/06/2008 01:53:41
Originally by: La5eR
ArchBishop Stealth youre retared, even with energy management V, Energy Systems Operation V, and Controlled Bursts V you STILL run into cap issues, this just seals the deal, unless you want to put in an officer mod youre not going to solve the cap issue.

Heres a slightly modified version for your ******ed thinking

1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
...


That's still WAY overkill. Here's my setup:
[Abaddon, Shadow]
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Damage Control II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

100MN Afterburner II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800

Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Gamma L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Gamma L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Gamma L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Gamma L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Gamma L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Gamma L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Gamma L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Gamma L

Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Auxiliary Nano Pump I

Hammerhead II x5
~ 600 tank vs Sansha
~ 840 DPS with my skills
~ 750 DPS using Scorch

Switch out the Resist mods / add a third Heat Sink depending on the mission.

Boz Well
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.06.12 02:27:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Elhina Novae
Level 4 Missionrunner Apocalypse:

8 x Mega Modulated Pulse I w/ Amarr Navy Multifrequency/Xray/Standard

1 x Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer
3 x Cap Recharge II

1 x Large Armor Repair II
3 x Sansha Heat Sink
3 x Active Hardener, or 2 x Active Hardener II / 1 x Tracking Enhancer II

1 x Capacitor Control Circuit I
2 x Energy Locus I

Using this myself without a problem. Change the faction stuff for T2 if you don't want em.


Without scorch crystals, don't you run into serious range issues? When I first bought this character I tried pulse, but I benched them until I trained up t2's for the scorch. I've enjoyed beams in a support role, although the fitting is a bit rough.

I did a bit of EFT warrioring and it's looking like I can't fit 8 meta4 beams without an implant or throwing something goofy in the low slots (or using a 1/3% grid rig, which might work). I was thinking something along these lines, if I went with an implant:

[Apocalypse, Mission-Kaer]
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Large Armor Repairer II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Xray L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Xray L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Xray L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Xray L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Xray L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Xray L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Xray L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Xray L

Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hammerhead I x5

Skyren
Van Diemen's Demise
Phalanx Alliance
Posted - 2008.06.12 03:16:00 - [22]
 

For sansha missions you don't need that second EM hardener - it's overkill and you're better off with the extra heat sink for more damage.

I've been switching around lately between Abaddon, Apoc, Navy Apoc and Paladin and I must admit I'm really liking using an apoc with pulses.

Stuart Price
Caldari
FLA5HY RED
The Defenders of Pen Island
Posted - 2008.06.12 03:25:00 - [23]
 

I'd probably go for something like this to start with:

8 x Megapulse II
4 x Cap Recharger II
1 x LAR II
1 x MAR II <-- yes really, a medium one
3 x Active hardeners
1 x CPR II
1 x HS II

3 x CCC
5 x Hammerhead II

With max skills, it permaruns everything for craploads of tank, 742dps with scorch. I'd then tailor it to the mission, more heatsinks for missions that don't need so much tank etc. But this would be the baseline I'd build from.

AstroPhobic
Minmatar
Holding Corp
Posted - 2008.06.12 03:37:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Stuart Price
I'd probably go for something like this to start with:

8 x Megapulse II
4 x Cap Recharger II
1 x LAR II
1 x MAR II <-- yes really, a medium one
3 x Active hardeners
1 x CPR II
1 x HS II

3 x CCC
5 x Hammerhead II

With max skills, it permaruns everything for craploads of tank, 742dps with scorch. I'd then tailor it to the mission, more heatsinks for missions that don't need so much tank etc. But this would be the baseline I'd build from.



Personally I've never flown a gankboat for missions, but according to turret missioners: 2 damage mods or GTFO. Personally I'd use 3. Replacing that MAR with a heatsink would probably save you some time anyway/

d3vo
Posted - 2008.06.12 03:42:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: d3vo on 12/06/2008 03:44:14
i run with this
works fine...
6 tachyons modulated
4 cap rechargers II
1 lar II
4 specific hardners II
2 hs II
3 ccc
5 hammerheads I

p.s. sometimes, for the two high slots i either fit 2 medium pulses II or 2 tractor beams

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2008.06.12 05:19:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Darth Vaders
Abaddon has many flaws for PvE unless you know exactly what you are doing.
DPS is crap considering you ll be fighting at around 50KM.
Cap is crap.
Speed/agility is crap.
If you can't solo lvl 4s in Apocalypse with Abaddon you fail for certain too.


730 at 52km with megapulse scorch and a tracking comp. Twisted Evil

yep crap damage indeed

although yea, the cap has issue, and shes big and slow. Laughing

Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Posted - 2008.06.12 05:58:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Darth Vaders
If you can't solo lvl 4s in Apocalypse with Abaddon you fail for certain too.


This. Forget Abaddon.

Julio Torres
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas.
Posted - 2008.06.12 08:59:00 - [28]
 

Apoc, much better ship.
Cap Efficient
High DPS (Can run with Mega Pulses)

Because of this, you can run with 1 less HS and put on a EAMN instead. In effect, that gives you similar bonuses the Abbadon got in addition to the Apoc's.

Abbadon got higher reists, and a nice dmg bonus.
But it doesnt have the cap to use the dmg bonus, you must fit for cap stability and losing mods a Apoc/Geddon would use on dps/tank.

Maybe the Abbadon is a more skill efficient ship for low sp pilots.

Julio Torres
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas.
Posted - 2008.06.12 09:01:00 - [29]
 

You have to look at Apoc's optimal bonus as a range bonus.
Allows you to use Pulses instead of Beams or Run with short range lenses where a Abbadon/Geddon must use medium/long range lenses. (As a bonus, many short range lenses uses less cap)

Izanaki Kurita
Amarr
Veyr
Posted - 2008.06.12 10:17:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Izanaki Kurita on 12/06/2008 10:18:27
Bah my reply didnt post..

As I was saying, seems like BS 5 is when Apoc starts shining over Abaddon really. With that you can reach 50km optimal with XR lenses which appears to be close to the break even point in dps.

The added cap stability of Apoc also allows to keep similar tank and 3 damage mods of the Abaddon.

And as targets get closer, Apoc gets even better as you can fit higher damage crystals and pulse tracking keeps up with those fast orbiting ships.

Seems that Apoc is better with high skills than Abaddon.

Well, seems like you managed to turn me for Apoc aswell, guess I have to go train energy weapon rigging and set one up.. ;)

-Izzy


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