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Anton Marvik
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2008.06.09 15:34:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Anton Marvik on 09/06/2008 19:55:43

The Random People of the Assembly Hall,

Recognising the Chairperson's responsibilities are crucial to the effectiveness of the CSM,

Noting Further these responsibilities include unbiased judgment, maturity, and professionalism,

Deeply disturbed by the actions of the current chair, Jade Constantine, in CSM Meeting Three and during the time since, including editorializing at the time of the meeting, and muting an elected CSM representative who spoke out against said editorializing,

Further deploring Jade Constantine's failure to take responsibility for said failures as Chairperson, as well as his threatening of further immature and reprehensible actions,

Desiring a successful and effective CSM,

1. Calls upon the CSM to undertake an immediate vote for the removal of Jade Constantine from Chair;

2. Further invites the CSM to duly elect a new Chairperson;

3. Regrets the necessity of these actions;

4. Further reminds the CSM representatives that they are responsible to the entirety of the EVE playerbase to make the CSM a success;

5. Expresses its hope that the CSM will be more successful in the future.



Yeah. I have too much free time. Aside from the manner in which it is written I think it speaks for itself. The thread for CSM Meeting 3, with relevant Jadeisms, can be found here - http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=788122&page=5

If Jade can't take responsibility for her actions, there is no hope that she will avoid those actions in the future, especially as Jade has threatened to be even MORE childish in her future.

Originally by: Jade Constantine
The lesson learned from that last meeting is for the Chair to be firmer, sooner, and take a much more vigorous hand in preventing unrecognized interruptions from the representatives

Rolling Eyes

Jade later responded to criticism about his actions with the following gems,

Originally by: Jade Constantine

What is it with the damned hippy-flower-child-politically-correct mumbo jumbo being spoken on these forums today? Rolling Eyes

99% of the bad feeling comes from people who for one reason or other have decided they want the CSM to fail.


If Jade cannot accept responsibility for his actions, let alone realize why they were wrong in the first place, she is not a sound Chairperson. Period.


Tl;dr The Chair is CRUCIAL, there is limited time for the CSM to get their job done, Jade is a failure as the Chair, needs to be replaced ASAP.

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.06.09 15:45:00 - [2]
 


Here's how you do it.

1. Get your CSM reps to pass the CSM electable chair issue to the constitution in Iceland.
2. Hold the election for chair and hope the CSM reps choose another chair.
3. result.


Anton Marvik
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2008.06.09 15:51:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine

Here's how you do it.

1. Get your CSM reps to pass the CSM electable chair issue to the constitution in Iceland.
2. Hold the election for chair and hope the CSM reps choose another chair.
3. result.




There is nothing indicating in the CSM constitution that if this resolution were to pass it would be invalid. Furthermore, there is nothing indicating in the CSM constitution that an amendment would be necessary to replace the Chairperson.

\o/ Legalese.

Viktor Amand
Posted - 2008.06.09 15:53:00 - [4]
 

i support this wholeheartedly

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2008.06.09 15:55:00 - [5]
 

Quote:
Yeah. I have too much free time.

No ****

Can we just wait a couple meetings before we act like world is going to end?

Erotic Irony
0bsession
Posted - 2008.06.09 15:59:00 - [6]
 

Nah, removing Jade is as counterproductive as allowing the council to simply re-elect chair and members.

Whatever happens CCP will claim it was a success as part of their ham-handed philosophy of player content as king.

Adonis 4174
Posted - 2008.06.09 16:04:00 - [7]
 

I don't expect the CSM would vote Jade out because it would add a whole new layer of stressfulness to their positions if that kind of thing happenned.

Vanessa Vale
Posted - 2008.06.09 16:05:00 - [8]
 

I have not read that thread but I have read the chat logs for the 3rd meeting. And as I progressed I went from blinking to, "this is ****" to literally being left speechless and with a gaping mouth. How can this person be chairman?

Also his behaviour towards Inanna Zuni (which I do not know or have had no contact) is a total shame. Along with Serenity Steele trailing along.

Appalling. And even more so when you realize this is real world behaviour and that has real life names attached to it.

Pnuka
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.06.09 16:16:00 - [9]
 

The fact a goon wasn't muted or warned first is going to really open some eyes I think.

Darius JOHNSON
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.06.09 16:26:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Darius JOHNSON on 09/06/2008 16:26:08
Originally by: Anton Marvik


There is nothing indicating in the CSM constitution that if this resolution were to pass it would be invalid. Furthermore, there is nothing indicating in the CSM constitution that an amendment would be necessary to replace the Chairperson.

\o/ Legalese.


I'll add to that by noting that there is no CSM Constitution. It's a word that was tossed out and made up at the last meeting. There is also nothing preventing a chairman from stepping down. As a matter of fact it may actually be explicitly written into the founding document with a vote for the new chairman as an obvious fallback. I do not have the document in front of me so the above may be partially inaccurate, but I find it a tad disingenuous that one would refer to the documentation in this instance when we can "fill in the blanks" when it comes to assigning one's self undefined powers.

In other words this is all possible today without a doubt. As a matter of fact that was also mentioned during yesterday's meeting.

Theel Maas
The Praxis Initiative
Majesta Empire
Posted - 2008.06.09 16:36:00 - [11]
 

No. Vote differently next time.

Drago Vanguard
Vanguard Corporation

Posted - 2008.06.09 16:40:00 - [12]
 


Theramin Dogon
Gallente
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.06.09 17:18:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Erotic Irony
Nah, removing Jade is as counterproductive as allowing the council to simply re-elect chair and members.

Whatever happens CCP will claim it was a success as part of their ham-handed philosophy of player content as king.
Why would you have to re-elect anyone? Just give the person with the second-most votes (Hardin) the chair and give the first alternate a seat on the council.

Erotic Irony
0bsession
Posted - 2008.06.09 17:21:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Theramin Dogon
Originally by: Erotic Irony
Nah, removing Jade is as counterproductive as allowing the council to simply re-elect chair and members.

Whatever happens CCP will claim it was a success as part of their ham-handed philosophy of player content as king.
Why would you have to re-elect anyone? Just give the person with the second-most votes (Hardin) the chair and give the first alternate a seat on the council.


The re-elect idea was a Jade proposal that seems to be all the rage. v0v

Ulstan
Posted - 2008.06.09 17:55:00 - [15]
 

Frankly, all 'please remove the chair we don't like them' petitions should be tossed out on principle.

As long as there is a mechanism for the CSM itself to choose elect the chair of their choosing, it's silly to have endless petitions from aggrieved players to remove whoever happens to be chair at the moment.

Allaria Kriss
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2008.06.09 18:06:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Ulstan
Frankly, all 'please remove the chair we don't like them' petitions should be tossed out on principle.

As long as there is a mechanism for the CSM itself to choose elect the chair of their choosing, it's silly to have endless petitions from aggrieved players to remove whoever happens to be chair at the moment.


There isn't one.

Ethaet
Gallente
Aliastra

Posted - 2008.06.09 18:27:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Ethaet on 09/06/2008 18:28:47
After reading the chatlog, I support this. 'Warning' and then muting people for no reason is not right unless there is a valid reason.

I maybe just be paranoid, but anyone notice this was between two of the RPers on the CSM?
Keep your RP sentiments out of the CSM.

Baron Levian
Amarr
Bloodveil
BLOOD EMPIRE
Posted - 2008.06.09 18:30:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Ethaet
Edited by: Ethaet on 09/06/2008 18:28:47
After reading the chatlog, I support this. 'Warning' and then muting people for no reason is not right unless there is a valid reason.



Inanna Zuni
Minmatar
The Causality
Electus Matari
Posted - 2008.06.09 18:32:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Pnuka
The fact a goon wasn't muted or warned first is going to really open some eyes I think.


One person has commented to me that they wondered whether that was because I have made it very clear I am not on the CSM as a representative of my corp / alliance and so wouldn't wardec Jade's lot.

"You might say that, I couldn't possibly comment" is all I can say.

IZ

Heartstone
Aliastra
Posted - 2008.06.09 18:54:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Inanna Zuni

One person has commented to me that they wondered whether that was because I have made it very clear I am not on the CSM as a representative of my corp / alliance and so wouldn't wardec Jade's lot.

"You might say that, I couldn't possibly comment" is all I can say.



Whist I personally think Jade was incorrect for a number of reason to mute you I would like to take this particular opportunity to ask you to leave that area well alone. If the Goons or any other alliance/corp represented on the CSM decided to war dec Star Fraction for a slight on the CSM I would expect most of the allaince would do two things. First laugh at people not being able to keep out of game activites out of game and secondly cheers for a free war. And whilst you may wish to quote a certain 80's TV show in regards to your opinion on this subject it is quite clear what you are implying by bringing it up.

Furtheremore I personally feel that the ones at fault is mostly CCP for not providing the CSM will more structure before deploying it as I think most of the arguements, diagrements and time wasting of the last couple of weeks can clearly be placed at thier door for the lack of support in creating this council in regards to the procedural side of the CSM. If there had have been more of it in place the CSM could have got on with representing the people who voted for them straight out the gate rather than it having to spend all this time bickering about simple matter of internal policy.


Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.

Posted - 2008.06.09 19:22:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Heartstone
Furtheremore I personally feel that the ones at fault is mostly CCP for not providing the CSM will more structure before deploying it as I think most of the arguements, ...


They are not at fault, they are to be _thanked_ for not providing said structure. We're here for the entertainment, not to watch boring meetings about PG boosting the Nyx.

Oh, and a thumbs up for removing Jade from the chair contrary to my vote at the election. For the entertainment value. ^_^

lecrotta
Minmatar
lecrotta Corp
Posted - 2008.06.09 19:34:00 - [22]
 



Establish a rule of law and a code of behavior before removing anybody.

NOT supported.

Christy Walton
Caldari
Bloodveil
Posted - 2008.06.09 19:53:00 - [23]
 

Remove him and maybe we could start to see CSM with better eyes.

Teh Doylan
Caldari
DarkStar 1
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.06.09 20:23:00 - [24]
 

I second this

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.06.09 20:28:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Inanna Zuni
Originally by: Pnuka
The fact a goon wasn't muted or warned first is going to really open some eyes I think.


One person has commented to me that they wondered whether that was because I have made it very clear I am not on the CSM as a representative of my corp / alliance and so wouldn't wardec Jade's lot.

"You might say that, I couldn't possibly comment" is all I can say.

IZ




Yeah you are having a laugh to be honest. To say we'd welcome a wardec from the silly goons would be understating the case. There is no force in this game scares us in Empire Wars Inanna. So cut the silly insinuations - it makes you look foolish.


Yorda
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.06.09 20:30:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Yorda on 09/06/2008 20:41:32
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Inanna Zuni
Originally by: Pnuka
The fact a goon wasn't muted or warned first is going to really open some eyes I think.


One person has commented to me that they wondered whether that was because I have made it very clear I am not on the CSM as a representative of my corp / alliance and so wouldn't wardec Jade's lot.

"You might say that, I couldn't possibly comment" is all I can say.

IZ




Yeah you are having a laugh to be honest. To say we'd welcome a wardec from the silly goons would be understating the case. There is no force in this game scares us in Empire Wars Inanna. So cut the silly insinuations - it makes you look foolish.




Jade brings up a valuable point. In empire wars the enemies can just sit in the stations and there's really nothing you can do about it (in 0.0 you can blow up the pos and just take the station).

I think we need to rectify this by making all outposts destructible.

Martin VanBuren
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.06.09 20:31:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Erotic Irony
Originally by: Theramin Dogon
Originally by: Erotic Irony
Nah, removing Jade is as counterproductive as allowing the council to simply re-elect chair and members.

Whatever happens CCP will claim it was a success as part of their ham-handed philosophy of player content as king.
Why would you have to re-elect anyone? Just give the person with the second-most votes (Hardin) the chair and give the first alternate a seat on the council.


The re-elect idea was a Jade proposal that seems to be all the rage. v0v


Before Jade thought he would win he said whatever chairman got elected should step down and put it to a vote. After he won he said it was not within the chairman's scope to determine whether or not he could resign (wtf?????) and that CCP would have to rule on it.


In conclusion, I support this measure

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.06.09 20:31:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Yorda

In empire wars the enemies can just sit in the stations and there's really nothing you can do about it...


Lol you wish.

Martin VanBuren
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.06.09 20:32:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine
it makes you look foolish.




As compared to stealth bomber fleets attacking dreadnoughts?

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.06.09 20:52:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Martin VanBuren
Originally by: Jade Constantine
it makes you look foolish.




As compared to stealth bomber fleets attacking dreadnoughts?



That makes us look disco

Jealous!


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