open All Channels
seplocked Assembly Hall
blankseplocked [ISSUE] Modify LOCAL chat
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7

Author Topic

Hottie McGee
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.07.31 19:21:00 - [121]
 

Edited by: Hottie McGee on 31/07/2008 19:22:17
I love this idea. This would have covop frigates in higher demand, and can let said covops and recons scout without being known. having it be in 'delayed' mode would still allow people to talk to each other, but their presence would still be hidden until they decide to reveal it.

Harrii Karrie
Posted - 2008.07.31 19:49:00 - [122]
 

No local, so when my mate jumps into a system I.m in, someone whom I may not seen for a while,who is in a different corp or alliance, and we may even be at war with each other.Means we can no longer pass the time of day with plesantries or smack. How against the ethos of EVE. Friendships begin and are formed through the local channel.No longer being able to exchange a few words with passing pilots is a massive down side to losing local.
A second is when chasing enemy gangs it will be harder to track them down and follow because not every alliance has the numbers of goonswarm who could in therory place a covert ops pilot on every gate to moniter commings and goings.
I believe local is a vital aspect of this game.

Hottie McGee
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.07.31 20:36:00 - [123]
 

Originally by: Harrii Karrie
No local, so when my mate jumps into a system I.m in, someone whom I may not seen for a while,who is in a different corp or alliance, and we may even be at war with each other.Means we can no longer pass the time of day with plesantries or smack. How against the ethos of EVE. Friendships begin and are formed through the local channel.No longer being able to exchange a few words with passing pilots is a massive down side to losing local.
A second is when chasing enemy gangs it will be harder to track them down and follow because not every alliance has the numbers of goonswarm who could in therory place a covert ops pilot on every gate to moniter commings and goings.
I believe local is a vital aspect of this game.



if you read the thread, you'd see that people have suggested using constellation chat as auto-updating and you can chat in there.

Harrii Karrie
Posted - 2008.07.31 20:47:00 - [124]
 

Dont have constalation channel active, have enougth without it.

Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
Posted - 2008.07.31 21:20:00 - [125]
 

Edited by: Marcus Gideon on 31/07/2008 21:20:35
Originally by: Harrii Karrie
Dont have constalation channel active, have enougth without it.


That's as useful an argument as the other folks who say "If you don't like Local, then turn it off".

The point is... Constellation chat spans too great a distance as far as people are concerned. They don't use it because they don't want to juggle all the conversations to look for anyone speaking directly to THEM.

Local covers that area, right there... so you can gab with whoever you like. And if you happen to notice someone threatening, then you can take appropriate action.

What isn't factored in, is the ships onboard sensors. There's no particular reason WHY you should know the instant someone Jumps into the area. I don't think that ships have little beacons that ring the doorbell and cry out "Honey, I'm home!"


But that's exactly what we're calling a problem, when a spy wants to sneak unseen into enemy territory to spy on the gathering fleet.

"I'll just creep up to this Gate. Hopefully no one is on the other end. Either way, I'll Cloak as soon as I get there, and sneak up to viewing range of their POS. Just gotta make this Jump first..." ***HONEY!!! I'M HOME!!!***


So taking Local away from everyone who is abusing it as a tactical intel tool... really shouldn't affect you who are only looking to gab with friends. You can just as easily ask "Anyone around here know where to find a Villard Wheel?" without seeing the faces of the people who will want to hurt you for asking.

And as for knowing if friends or enemies are nearby... there's that little button for "Onboard Scanner" too. Very Happy

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2008.07.31 21:20:00 - [126]
 

Originally by: Mecinia Lua
Edited by: Mecinia Lua on 31/07/2008 08:38:19
I think your incorrect it is reported to your computer. Displaying the information is just flipping a flag. Completely stripping it out would require a much more concerted effort and probably a lot of programming time that could be better used on other aspects of the game.

That may be, we don’t know how CCP would implement it.
Originally by: Mecinia Lua
Just like one alliance first hacked and got the standings in the local window and then we all got it because it was an unfair advantage, this is pretty much the same thing, that's why CCP has never removed it except for that hiccup once upon a time, they can't figure out how to do so economically.

The standings data was always available to anyone by doing a “get info” on the portrait in local. Do you see any hacks that give a listing of all ships in system beyond the 13-AU range of your ship’s scanner? Is it because they’re not there?
Originally by: Mecinia Lua
Personally many of those calling for removal of local will not find the situation they want if it is removed. It would actually make the game harder for both the hunted and the hunter…

One of the points of this change is to make the game more complex. If that means “harder” for you, then that’s a subjective assessment.

Sin Fae
Operational Detachment-Alpha
Posted - 2008.08.01 03:00:00 - [127]
 

Absolutely agree. If (for whatever messed up reason) there must be a compromise, at the very least let covops ships pilots not show up in local

Othe Noc
Posted - 2008.08.01 07:03:00 - [128]
 

I think that to implement this would require a complete overhaul of the scanner. Which would probably include a feature to scan for active ships in the system . . . which would result in the same information anyways.

And I don't think the presence of local chat has a particularly detrimental affect on cloakers, either. Knowing that someone is in system doesn't tell you anything other than that someone may have noticed YOU enter. They could be cloaked off a gate, they could be ratting in a belt, they could be docked in a station, or they could be sitting at another gate or a planet or a moon or a POS. You can try scanning them out, but you won't find them, and you'll assume they're somewhere else. You can try probing them out, but you'll get the same results. You know SOMEBODY is SOMEWHERE, but you don't know anything more until they uncloak.

The idea of using a chat channel for intel does bug me a little. But I feel that it would be redundant to scrap it in favor of an ultimately identical feature in the scanner. If we want to overhaul the scanner and find cooler things to do with it, then having that new functionality replace Local Chat might be interesting. But I think any changes to this system should originate with discussion about the Scanner and only affect changes to Local Chat incidentally.

And if you need an RP reason to justify it: each ship has a comm system capable of making links and communicating instantaneously across the cluster. There's actually a funny little article on it here. Since all of the ship's individual communications are ultimately networked together (sort of like the Internet, cough cough), it's clearly possible to scan for all connections originating in the same starsystem (Sort of like pinning down the location of someone's internet connection). In order to cut one's self off from the link and render one's self invisible to the chat channel, one would have to close off all connection to the communications net. This would involve severing connections to the chat channels, fleet coms, the market, the map, the Assets tab, the wallet . . . even IFF tags on ships, and the identifier signals of scanned ships and stations.

We can call this maneuver "Logging off." Since a ship severed from the communications network is useless for nearly anything besides hiding, this maneuver is nearly always accompanied by the pilot shutting down the ship's power systems, rendering it effectively invisible.

Fahtim Meidires
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.08.01 07:17:00 - [129]
 

Originally by: Othe Noc

And if you need an RP reason to justify it: each ship has a comm system capable of making links and communicating instantaneously across the cluster. There's actually a funny little article on it here. Since all of the ship's individual communications are ultimately networked together (sort of like the Internet, cough cough), it's clearly possible to scan for all connections originating in the same starsystem (Sort of like pinning down the location of someone's internet connection).



This is a pretty good RP reason for it. If not an excellent one. Read the link it's a good one. I actually hoped CCP had something like this, so this makes me Very Happy.

Quote:

In order to cut one's self off from the link and render one's self invisible to the chat channel, one would have to close off all connection to the communications net. This would involve severing connections to the chat channels, fleet coms, the market, the map, the Assets tab, the wallet . . . even IFF tags on ships, and the identifier signals of scanned ships and stations.



This, however, would just be terrible software engineering in a universe with lasers in space and warp technology. Rolling Eyes The first part is sufficient.

Solid post though, and keep local.

Alex TheCat
Posted - 2008.08.01 08:25:00 - [130]
 

Local as it is now should definitely be removed. I agree that it should show the amount of ships in the system with no ifs nor buts. It also should show the corp and alliance members in the list. But that's about it!

RuleoftheBone
Minmatar
Black Viper Nomads

Posted - 2008.08.01 10:04:00 - [131]
 

Supported.

Just show local numbers. Job done.


Transmaniacon
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe

Posted - 2008.08.01 13:01:00 - [132]
 

Edited by: Transmaniacon on 01/08/2008 13:01:24
This is an excellent idea, and really fulfills the unknown feeling of space. Using the constellation channel, one could see how populated it is, and an influx obviously signals a enemy gang. And while you don't know where they are, they don't know where you are either. It would require the use of actual scouting, not just an alt jumping into system and reporting what local says... Small cloaking ships would be invaluable for covering gates, stations, POS, etc to gain intel on enemy movements. I think this brings a new level of strategy to the game and as mentioned earlier, makes this much more realistic. This is one of the best suggestions I have read on these forums, and I would love for this to go through.

Dihania
Gallente
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2008.08.01 13:04:00 - [133]
 


Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2008.08.01 17:51:00 - [134]
 

Originally by: Othe Noc
I think that to implement this would require a complete overhaul of the scanner. Which would probably include a feature to scan for active ships in the system . . . which would result in the same information anyways.

... But I feel that it would be redundant to scrap it in favor of an ultimately identical feature in the scanner...

Why is it so hard to understand that the "feature in the scanner" would not be identical to the current Local? This info would be available at LIMITED RANGE, unlike the current Local that gives this information at INFINITE RANGE.

See the difference? LIMITED vs. INFINITE?

I hope that was clear.

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2008.08.01 18:02:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: Fahtim Meidires
Originally by: Othe Noc

And if you need an RP reason to justify it: each ship has a comm system capable of making links and communicating instantaneously across the cluster. There's actually a funny little article on it here. Since all of the ship's individual communications are ultimately networked together (sort of like the Internet, cough cough), it's clearly possible to scan for all connections originating in the same starsystem (Sort of like pinning down the location of someone's internet connection).



This is a pretty good RP reason for it. If not an excellent one. Read the link it's a good one. I actually hoped CCP had something like this, so this makes me Very Happy.



Not really.

If we start on the RP path someone would have to explain why the Local intel on a particular system is not available in other systems. Not even in delayed form. What with the FTL comm and stuff. Surely this would be as simple as providing market listings across the region.

Trojanman190
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.08.01 19:54:00 - [136]
 

This change will just make blobbing even more the answer to everything.

You won't know who you are going to face or how many friends your enemy has so the best bet is to bring as many buddies as possible.

This is realistic but not fun.

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2008.08.01 20:37:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: Trojanman190
This change will just make blobbing even more the answer to everything.

You won't know who you are going to face or how many friends your enemy has so the best bet is to bring as many buddies as possible.

This is realistic but not fun.

This really depends on, for example, how the new scanning system is implemented. Blobs may be made to have some considerable visibility disadvantages making them easily avoidable.

Faeyde
Posted - 2008.08.01 21:34:00 - [138]
 

Edited by: Faeyde on 01/08/2008 21:42:17
Edited by: Faeyde on 01/08/2008 21:41:35
Originally by: Kelsin
Agreed! But along with this I would ask the CSM to recommend introducing a new more robust scanner system to give that "Submarine Sonar" feel to figuring out who else is out there.


Indeed. How is it that in the several thousand years humanity have advanced in Eve, they've completely lost the ability to make active radar systems, with FoF built in? That said, Eve already has the ability to not display the members of a chat group (log into help and try to view who else is in it for an example) Why not just set local to the same unavailable mode as help and leave it at that?




Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
Posted - 2008.08.01 22:41:00 - [139]
 

"Recent Speakers"

Phony v2
Caldari
Dark Circle Enforcement

Posted - 2008.08.02 01:07:00 - [140]
 

I agree completely

Joiske
Posted - 2008.08.02 17:46:00 - [141]
 

not agreeing with this

kryptteacher
Posted - 2008.08.02 20:45:00 - [142]
 

oooo yeah i would be stoked to see constellation chat used instead of local. BUT if you have a heavily populated constellation would there be a lag factor?

Alpha Prime
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.08.02 20:59:00 - [143]
 


/Signed.

I fully endorse this suggestion.

Aiko Intaki
Lodizal Shield Tek
Lodizal Conglomerate
Posted - 2008.08.02 21:04:00 - [144]
 


NanDe YaNen
The Funkalistic
Imperial Republic Of the North
Posted - 2008.08.02 21:32:00 - [145]
 

Had a very cool idea:

To extend the place of small ships in a universe without local, make scanner accuracy dependent upon sig radius.

In a system that would be hit or miss while trying to jump on top of enemy forces, small ships would have the advantage.

Say there was something like jump resolution that allowed your warp drive to lock onto ships on scanner with a certain level of accuracy.

Big ships are for getting the job done. Small ships are for opening, closing, and finding doors.

ceyriot
Munition Delivery Services

Posted - 2008.08.02 22:06:00 - [146]
 

Originally by: Dal' Hassen
Edited by: Dal'' Hassen on 09/06/2008 15:21:06
I agree that Local chat should be changed to the way that Tyrrhena described, however I think that local chat is useful for new characters just getting the hang of the game and would probably be better to have it function much like the rookie help channel.

And I know that you would say that 'whats stopping someone creating new players all the time' and your right.
Maybe have this implemented, buy only in lowsec/0.0? Roleplay reason would be CONCORD isn't there to count every single player.

Tallai Reeca
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.08.04 13:36:00 - [147]
 

Fully support this idea. In my view, local is completely unrealistic and the game's single most used exploit. It has the effect of strongly favoring some playstyles while making others unplayable that would otherwise be perfectly viable. It goes against Eve's very nature as a realistic combat and economy simulator.

That said, I also think local could be retained in its current form in high sec. Like others have pointed out, that would be way more realistic while allowing for even more playstyle diversity than eliminating local altogether would.

How about:

High sec: local works like it does today everywhere
Low sec: local has no auto-discovery; however, constellation channel does
Deep space: neither local nor constellation have auto-discovery

Louie Salz
Posted - 2008.08.04 13:37:00 - [148]
 

Supported.

Zaranya Amarr
Posted - 2008.08.14 05:11:00 - [149]
 

If the local was taken away it would be nice if the scanner could differentiate between unoccupied ships and active ones.

Instead, maybe you wouldn't even have the ship type on scanner but rather it's size? That could be more interesting.

But overall, let's get rid of low sec and 0.0 local.


Maulos
Caldari
Cosmic Encounter
Mayhem.
Posted - 2008.08.14 12:40:00 - [150]
 

/signed


Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only