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Minemode
Posted - 2008.06.08 08:07:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Minemode on 08/06/2008 08:09:13
Hello all, like many people I am preparing for faction wars. I have had a few encounters in p v p that erm well ended rather badly. So over this time i have played around with eft trying to find the most effective configurations, and continue to work on my skills but there seems to be a few fundamental weaknesses of gallente that I would like to ask advice or help for. Also I know it all depends on the ilot and skills. But the information provided below assumes equally skilled pilots and equal skill point distribution.

I probably going to be flying a battle ship or dps ship.

Gallente's strength seems to be in that of gate camping due to the extreemy short range of blasters. Though most of the load outs I see are for blasters.

how do you generally configure for small/medium roaming gangs(ie medium range say around 50 k), long range fleet battles?

before I start I know allot of people will say drones Great for gate camps but considering they have a slower flight time vs missiles and defiantly do not pack the dps of them or guns. That and they wouldnt be able to catch someone in a ship that is going between 2000-7000 mps.

Should I stick exclusively to support and ecm drones?

Blasters: Ok they seem to have great dps but if you use them you are going to have to fly right in the middle of the other enemy's fleet. so that means that you are going to be webbed which there is no defense for, warp scrambled and have your power drained. Considering that gallente ships use excessive capacitor from armor repairs and their guns take capacitor power, is there ever a time outside a gate camp situation where I would want to fit blasters?

many of the gallente ships have a bonus to armor reppers, but does this really make a difference when it comes to being targeted by multiple opponents? For example Both Amarr and Minmitar have innate resistance bonuses to their armor and shields. I mean considering the effect of focused fire in gangs. Should I even bother to fly something that has a armor repair bonus outside of p v e?

Damage: Ok, Minmitar has a bonus on rate of fire, and damage. Caldari ships have a bonus on rate of fire and missile velocity. Heck even for rail guns the rokh has the longest range available in the game. Actually according to eft, you can take a megathron and compare it side by side with an equally skilled pilot flying a maelstrom. The difference is 100 dps less for the maelstrom and a 1500 point advantage in volley for minmitar. due to bonuses for Caldari their rate of fire is just a touch longer than railguns but do allot more per volley. Is there any way for a gallente to push up their damage to compete on a volley scale?

When combating minmitar speed gangs is there anything that gallente has that can catch and tackle? I mean the obvious ship the Huginn which has a bonus of 60% for web stasis range is Minmitar, so do we have anything that can work equally as well when dealing with nano fleets?

What tactics/ load outs would you use to shore up these weaknesses?


Ok, just to make sure this isnt a nerf this gallente sucks thread. These are legitimate concerns in which I seek a solution. Basically trying to figure out how to capitalize on gallente strengths, while shoring up their weaknesses.

I appreciate your time and help.


Also what battle ships would you fly for roaming/mission gangs?

Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2008.06.08 11:53:00 - [2]
 

Not going to be much help but I just wanted to make sure you realized that the Gallente weapons are not blasters - they're Hybrid weapons which include both blasters and rail guns.


Jim Nakamura
Posted - 2008.06.08 14:33:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk
Not going to be much help but I just wanted to make sure you realized that the Gallente weapons are not blasters - they're Hybrid weapons which include both blasters and rail guns.




True, but their gunboats have bonusses which are more useful with blasters (i.e. tracking and/or damage bonus). Compare that with Caldari gunboats - which are still hybrid platforms, but mostly get optimal range bonusses, making them more suited for rails.

Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
Posted - 2008.06.08 17:10:00 - [4]
 

I think we're going to have to wait and see what kind of range we're dealing with in the factional warfare sites. As I understand there are NPC mission objectives, and it depends partly on where the NPCs and mission items are.

4rc4ng3L
Gallente
C R Y O
Posted - 2008.06.08 17:20:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Jim Nakamura

True, but their gunboats have bonusses which are more useful with blasters (i.e. tracking and/or damage bonus)


Tracking is more useful with Railguns seeing as blasters already have good tracking. They enable you to take out smaller faster targets at farther distances... which most would find more helpful Cool

Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2008.06.08 17:29:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: 4rc4ng3L
Originally by: Jim Nakamura

True, but their gunboats have bonusses which are more useful with blasters (i.e. tracking and/or damage bonus)


Tracking is more useful with Railguns seeing as blasters already have good tracking. They enable you to take out smaller faster targets at farther distances... which most would find more helpful Cool


Exactly what I was going to say.

And of course damage benefits anything.

Gartel Reiman
The Athiest Syndicate
Advocated Destruction
Posted - 2008.06.08 19:44:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Minemode
I probably going to be flying a battle ship or dps ship.

Without wanting to sound condescending, if this is your first major PvP experience you would probably be better off in a smaller ship (Thorax, Vexor or even Brutix/Myrm) forst your first few engagements. PvP is vastly dependant on player (not character) skills and/or experience, more so than you seem to give it credit for in your first paragraph. Cruisers and battlecruisers are still very useful, especially in packs and especially if your support skills aren't top-notch, and they're much cheaper to replace than battleships. Flying these for a while would probably be a better idea than jumping straight into a battleship.

Quote:
Gallente's strength seems to be in that of gate camping due to the extreemy short range of blasters. Though most of the load outs I see are for blasters.

how do you generally configure for small/medium roaming gangs(ie medium range say around 50 k), long range fleet battles?

50km combat doesn't really happen much, as at that range you can just warp out once you start taking serious damage. For that reason, the majority of combat takes place well within 24km (the range of a Warp Disruptor II) and short-range, high-damage weapons are the order of the day. If you're not within that range, you're generally sniping which will involve a battleship/bonused HAC with the longer-range guns. But this is a specialist role and the majority of the time you will be fitting short range weapons for maximum damage.

Quote:
before I start I know allot of people will say drones Great for gate camps but considering they have a slower flight time vs missiles and defiantly do not pack the dps of them or guns. That and they wouldnt be able to catch someone in a ship that is going between 2000-7000 mps.

Sentry drones do not have any of these problems and are in fact excellent for gate camps, where you can more or less guarantee the range of the engagement beforehand. This does pretty much require you to be in a battleship though. Medium and light drones won't suffer too much from travel time when the target starts 15km away; and if your target is doing thousands of km/s and isn't being webbed, pretty much all of the other weapons systems will have problems damaging it too. Someone in your fleet has to catch it and web it; at which point your drones will start their pretty brutal damage.

Gartel Reiman
The Athiest Syndicate
Advocated Destruction
Posted - 2008.06.08 19:44:00 - [8]
 

Quote:
Blasters: Ok they seem to have great dps but if you use them you are going to have to fly right in the middle of the other enemy's fleet. so that means that you are going to be webbed which there is no defense for, warp scrambled and have your power drained. Considering that gallente ships use excessive capacitor from armor repairs and their guns take capacitor power, is there ever a time outside a gate camp situation where I would want to fit blasters?

Yes - you will be flying right within web range of your target, and you will likely be webbed and scrambled yourself. But this is not a situation you can realistically avoid; for starters, you will be scrambled during a PvP fight unless your opponents are incompetant. Likewise, unless you don't want to be webbed, and are faster than all the enemy ships (e.g. nanoships), then you are likely to be webbed also. Being webbed isn't a problem in itself, it just means you cannot use speed to reduce damage from guns/missiles (which most tanky PvP fits will not be planning to do anyway). Being webbed can be a problem if you cannot close range on your target, but if they can web you, you can web them and so this is a bit of a moot point.

Energy Neutralisers are a different issue altogether - by no means a given like web and scram are, and only appear on a few ships. The majority of these are likely to have a 25km+ range anyway (heavy neuts, med neuts on a Curse) and the remainder will have 10km range, so in most cases you will be neuted if within scram range, and in all cases you will be hit inside of web range. Again, this is something that is just a fact of PvP - if the enemy brings neuts, expect to be neuted. Cap boosters help greatly here to mitigate the negative effects of being neuting - as does having your fleet primary the neuting ship and killing it off before you get into cap issues.

To answer your last question - you will want to fit blasters on Gallente ships any time you are not specifically acting as a sniper or flying a nano-ship (rail Deimos for example, but that's a bit 'meh' anyway). Blasters have much better damage and tracking, and have passable range with their decent falloff (especially if you can fit T2 blasters and use Null ammo). You'd have to have a specialist setup in mind not to use blasters.

Quote:
many of the gallente ships have a bonus to armor reppers, but does this really make a difference when it comes to being targeted by multiple opponents?

It does have less of an effect than in, say, PvE. In PvP, stacking up on effective hitpoints is generally more effective than using reps. It's even possible to work out the tipping point of incoming DPS above which it's better to for a plate and below which a repper - the rep bonus will push this figure up for ships that have it, but will not revoke the general concept. That said, it is an exceptionally useful bonus if you are using reps, and likewise it is possible to have viable setups that don't use reps; it's another aspect that you have to consider when fitting ships.

Quote:
Damage... Is there any way for a gallente to push up their damage to compete on a volley scale?

No. Well, you could fit artillery if you really insist on high alpha, but it wouldn't be worth it. Except in a few specialist situations, the DPS is the most important damage figure (alpha only really matters if you're trying to instapop something) and Gallente specialise in damage bonuses on. Artillery are by design the highest alpha turrets in the game (and large arty are actually pretty poor). It doesn't even make sense to compare missiles in this aspect - they don't even really have an alpha strike due to travel time. If alpha is important to your gang, because you're trying to instapop a target, then missiles will be a really bad tool for the job - they are the worst choice of weapons for sniping with. (Well, except non-sentry drones... Smile)

Gartel Reiman
The Athiest Syndicate
Advocated Destruction
Posted - 2008.06.08 19:45:00 - [9]
 

Quote:
When combating minmitar speed gangs is there anything that gallente has that can catch and tackle? I mean the obvious ship the Huginn which has a bonus of 60% for web stasis range is Minmitar, so do we have anything that can work equally as well when dealing with nano fleets?

No ship works as well as the Huginn/Rapier for webbing from range, since that is the speciality of these ships. Gallente ships are as a rule, relatively slow and heavy and their racial ewar is sensor dampeners. However, the Ares is still a very speedy tackler and can fit MWD, point and web. To answer your question fairly, I could say that Gallente ships work just as well as any other ships that aren't Huginns/Rapiers/Curses for catching nanos. (In fact, Domi with heavy neuts and MWD can be surprisingly good against nanoships).

Quote:
What tactics/ load outs would you use to shore up these weaknesses?

The majority of Gallente ships should focus on damage - use a MWD and web to get right up to the enemy, then pulverise them with blaster fire and (possibly-bonused) drones. Fitting multiple magstabs helps a lot in this respect, and the tank (plated vs reps) is your call - I wouldn't feel qualified to offer any help in this regard. Then again you have ships like the Domi that are incredibly versatile - they can fit a massive active tank, can easily fit heavy neuts and/or heavy remote reps, can field and carry a wide variety of drones (some for every occasion) that hit very hard - and it's also the most damaging battleship in the game if you go all-out damage and fill its highs with blasters. Plus it's cheap Smile.

Quote:
Also what battle ships would you fly for roaming/mission gangs?

None. Battleships are too big, too slow, too heavy for roaming gangs, and besides they don't really have the right weapons to hit the other medium-sized ships you're likely to encounter either. Probably the premier Gallente ship for roaming would be a nano-Ishtar; if you're looking at T1, then any of the ships I mentioned way back at the start of this post (Thorax, Vexor, Brutix, Myrm) would do pretty well.

Minemode
Posted - 2008.06.08 23:40:00 - [10]
 

I appreciate all the responces. But as far as the comment on cruisers and battle cruisers. Do you think that they will be able to be used to capture bunker complexes? oOnce again thanks

Gartel Reiman
The Athiest Syndicate
Advocated Destruction
Posted - 2008.06.09 07:35:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Minemode
I appreciate all the responces. But as far as the comment on cruisers and battle cruisers. Do you think that they will be able to be used to capture bunker complexes?

My understanding from what's been published so far, is that the final bunker complex is more or less 'King of the Hill'; you have to sit your ships at the complex and repel allcomers for a given amount of time to seize it.

As this is going to be a coordinated effort (it's not something you could feasibly do solo) it's going to require a mixed fleet anyway to cover all the angles. So yes, definitely. BCs in particular are pretty tough and put out a lot of firepower with medium sized weapons, so they're great all-rounders. Cruisers have the same advantage in weaponry, with a little less damage and tank, but with better speed and faster lock times (as well as being much cheaper to replace when they pop). Both would likely be just fine at this job, though the final answer depends on the makeup of your friendly fleet and what tactics they want to adopt - as well as the specifics the bunker phase (e.g. is there a standard warp-in point, how exactly do you stay in position, etc.).

So yes. Smile


 

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