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Xavieer Naidoo
Gallente
Capax Infiniti
Posted - 2008.06.12 12:50:00 - [61]
 

As a former member of Brutally Collapsing Empire I can say that the ideals behind BRUCE were very beautiful. But that was all that was good about them. BRUCE hurts from failure cascade, a bunch of carebears, bad diplos and some really bad leadership (Serena I'm looking at you... where are you... where were you all this time ?). Other than that, still a great bunch of people. o/



Serena Greyskull
Caldari
Rens 911
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.06.12 13:21:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Xavieer Naidoo
(Serena I'm looking at you... where are you... where were you all this time ?). Other than that, still a great bunch of people. o/




Ah...killing many a Bruce in fountian, traveling to Delve to gank a few Bob cap ships, and generally griefing anyone I could find.

Where were you, role playing? Laughing

Barra Cheveyo
Gallente
Priest Kings
Posted - 2008.06.12 15:09:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Sorrowed
BRUCE failed because all the elite people left and Omen stole stuff.


I would say this is not why BRUCE failed but what happened as a result of the failure.

Even when you, the Shade. crew, and FOOM where still in Fountain we were getting spanked by PL and friends in almost every major engagement.




Zathi Shaitan
Minmatar
Illiteracy Combatants
Posted - 2008.06.12 15:37:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr
Go ****ing find out. This isn't Q&A its supposed to be corperation and alliance DISCUSSION.


What the frell is a corpEration?

Rajere
Gallente
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
Posted - 2008.06.12 16:34:00 - [65]
 

Edited by: Rajere on 12/06/2008 16:36:43
Quote:
You were the j/o that got kicked for posting garbage on the forums.

Again you should do some fact checking before ever posting again. If by kicked you mean "left of my own free will to much surprise and QQing by fried and others wondering why i'd leave them" then you are correct.

Shinma Apollo
Caldari
BURN EDEN
Posted - 2008.06.12 17:10:00 - [66]
 

Edited by: Shinma Apollo on 12/06/2008 17:10:20
Originally by: Sorrowed
words


I think what's particularly sad about the whole affair is that we were warned about Marcus Malos (the Omen head) by a member of PL (Gandolf) about 6 weeks before he robbed the alliance fund blind. (I really still owe you that 5 mil, don't I gandolf?) As for Shade and Foom, it was a big hit, but BRUCE really managed to cut its own legs enough times. There's still some good people left in it even without all the "it's because X left" crowd, so here's to them getting some sick bionic legs; oh, and Ronan for Executor!

Eltyron
Caldari
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.06.12 17:12:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Sorrowed

The bruce failure had very litte to do with any outside influence. Fact.


I completely agree. If 'said outside influence' had never set foot in Fountain, BRUCE still would have evacuated to Syndicate and dropped 2700 members in 5 weeks.

More importantly, BRUCE was doomed to failure as soon as your leaders were born in RL, so any credit taken by others is moot, as this was all planned.


Mary Anne
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2008.06.12 18:11:00 - [68]
 

Edited by: Mary Anne on 12/06/2008 18:13:32


Originally by: Xavieer Naidoo
As a former member of Brutally Collapsing Empire...


Dear Xavieer,

thank you a lot - you made me smile in real life. This post of yours made my day and I welcome you to the people who see the obvious and act accordingly.

Yours truly

Mary Anne


Arkanjuca
Caldari
D00M.
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2008.06.12 19:18:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Sorrowed
The bruce failure had very litte to do with any outside influence.

Give'em some credit, even if that influence was not that big.
Originally by: Sorrowed
After loosing FOOM, and the members of Shade they lost a significant number of there top PvPers. Shade members that left represented 52% of all the kills on the bruce kill board. most of them were tac ops guys. Foom left taking with it 8 of 10 of the command staffing postions. Between Foom, Trada and Shade they left with all but 1 of the original FCs. The lead FC Zaphod left the game permanantly a few weeks before the Goon/PL reset. This played a huge role as well, he was the glue that kept most of the FCs together.

Absolutely true, they was the heart and mind of BRUCE...

Ilany
Gallente
Black Moon Mining
Posted - 2008.06.12 20:39:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Eltyron
More importantly, BRUCE was doomed to failure as soon as your leaders were born in RL, so any credit taken by others is moot, as this was all planned.



Very HappyVery Happy
I saw what you did there.

Rajere
Gallente
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
Posted - 2008.06.12 22:04:00 - [71]
 

Shade. is a 65 member corp which had 52% of bruce's kills? Out of a 3600+ member alliance? You're corp is larger than ours with less kills and less efficiency, and you exclusively nano/cloak-*** killing afk ratters while we're the last group in eve who refuses to nano***. (seriously, how do you have anything less than 99% efficiency nano***ging?)

Sorry PL i'm going to have to agree that BRUCE would have failure cascaded without you.

Severe Admin
Gallente
Blind Industries
Posted - 2008.06.12 22:07:00 - [72]
 

have fun getting owned in syndicate bruce, your greed for fountain was your undoing, like so many alliances these days. good riddance

Eltyron
Caldari
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.06.13 01:14:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Ilany

Very HappyVery Happy
I saw what you did there.


Whats to see? We apparently didn't do anything in Fountain to BRUCE. Every angle we've tried to show them their history from our perspective has devolved into their leaders stuffing jalepenos into their ears, shaking their heads from side to side and muttering "DA BRUCES, DA BRUCES 4 LYFE y0" over and over.

Either way, thanks to BRUCE for being BRUCE.

Sorrowed
Gallente
Shade.
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2008.06.13 01:16:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Rajere
Shade. is a 65 member corp which had 52% of bruce's kills? Out of a 3600+ member alliance? You're corp is larger than ours with less kills and less efficiency, and you exclusively nano/cloak-*** killing afk ratters while we're the last group in eve who refuses to nano***. (seriously, how do you have anything less than 99% efficiency nano***ging?)

Sorry PL i'm going to have to agree that BRUCE would have failure cascaded without you.


Yes Raj. Shade members did represent that many of the kills. less than 99% efficiency? well if you actually looked at our KB before popping off at the mouth you would see we have 89% efficiency. I would guess that it may have something to do with the fact we dont sit in a 0.0 dead end with a massive blue nap fest like you do. We actually go out and roam other regions.As far as you getting kicked, yes i do remember. i was a member of Foom at the time. You left, to keep from being kicked. I certainly do not remember anyone begging your loud mouth to stay around. Your Venom toward current and former bruce members alone speaks volumes. Bitter much? I find it humorous how you speak with such authority as to the situation when you were never there, and had nothing to do with Bruce, or the people Bruce were fighting with. You are nothing more than a trash talker trying to get jabs in because you feel bruce did you wrong some how. Oh, larger than yours with less kills, our corp has only been in existance for less than 2 months Mr rocket science. We did not copy the KB info from the bruce boards as it is private and shall remain that way. As for your efficiency, i dont think im the only one that can confirm your pilots are not exactly the best at posting there losses. Your board is basically BS.

Wusti
Caldari
The New Era
C0NVICTED
Posted - 2008.06.13 02:22:00 - [75]
 

Edited by: Wusti on 13/06/2008 02:28:22
Originally by: Sorrowed
Originally by: Rajere
Shade. is a 65 member corp which had 52% of bruce's kills? Out of a 3600+ member alliance? You're corp is larger than ours with less kills and less efficiency, and you exclusively nano/cloak-*** killing afk ratters while we're the last group in eve who refuses to nano***. (seriously, how do you have anything less than 99% efficiency nano***ging?)

Sorry PL i'm going to have to agree that BRUCE would have failure cascaded without you.


Yes Raj. Shade members did represent that many of the kills. less than 99% efficiency? well if you actually looked at our KB before popping off at the mouth you would see we have 89% efficiency. I would guess that it may have something to do with the fact we dont sit in a 0.0 dead end with a massive blue nap fest like you do. We actually go out and roam other regions.As far as you getting kicked, yes i do remember. i was a member of Foom at the time. You left, to keep from being kicked. I certainly do not remember anyone begging your loud mouth to stay around. Your Venom toward current and former bruce members alone speaks volumes. Bitter much? I find it humorous how you speak with such authority as to the situation when you were never there, and had nothing to do with Bruce, or the people Bruce were fighting with. You are nothing more than a trash talker trying to get jabs in because you feel bruce did you wrong some how. Oh, larger than yours with less kills, our corp has only been in existance for less than 2 months Mr rocket science. We did not copy the KB info from the bruce boards as it is private and shall remain that way. As for your efficiency, i dont think im the only one that can confirm your pilots are not exactly the best at posting there losses. Your board is basically BS.


ROFL

You sir are a complete and utter tosser living in dreamland. You try and make heroes out of other sick and deluded fools who quite simply let many many ppl down through their own incompetence. Revel in it big boy, make all the excuses you want and try your hardest to believe them. At least that way you will continue to make the same mistakes over and over again to our endless amusement.

Shade.? You should never have seen the light of day tbhqfh. Just follow Zaphod's lead eh? at least it sounds like he knew when the game was up.

*Edit for typos*

Rajere
Gallente
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
Posted - 2008.06.13 02:42:00 - [76]
 

Edited by: Rajere on 13/06/2008 02:44:06
again...

delusional much there sorrowed?

Sorry your alliance failure cascaded and all, but you may want to do a little fact checking before posting ever again. You seem to have both myself and my corp confused for someone else. One of these days you might be able to make a post with a single correct statement, until then, stop posting.

Grim Mercy
Minmatar
Heretic Logistics
Heretic Nation
Posted - 2008.06.13 04:57:00 - [77]
 

Edited by: Grim Mercy on 13/06/2008 05:15:09

About a month prior to the whole FOOM/Shade. fiasco, I was hanging in vent while doing a defense fleet op, if I recall correctly, against Burn Eden. Fried came in with a loud sigh and started complaining about having a hard day, that diplomacy had totally broken down, and that the political aspects of Eve were becoming really, really tiresome.

That was the last day I flew with an FC. From that day up until after FOOM left I only saw ONE op- when we tried to take down PL's pos in YZ? Hell I don't even remember the system now. Mind you, I'm not on all the time, but enough to hop on maybe 3 or 4 defense/roaming/pos bust ops a week. That PL pos bust was the last coordinated effort I saw from any of the leadership. In fact, I was told specifically, many times, to not worry about Burn Eden at all, to just leave them alone until they left because it wasn't worth the price of any ships we would lose to give them some pvp (or, apparently, to try to defend our space). All the old-school FCs (and those closest to the ship-reimbursment program I would imagine) told me, and others, to ignore them.

Fast foward to one month later... The crappy ISP at the hotel I was staying at decided to die for about a week, and when I came back FOOM was gone. *Poof*, like a fart in the wind. I'm guessing there was, oh, about a month of planning/moving out on their part, but I was completely shocked. Then, I noticed none of the hard-core I-hope-they-haven't -gone-roaming-yet-today-because-I-wanted-to-join-them pvpers were ever on... then I noticed Shade. when I was trying to get ahold of Jester. So, in the space of a week, all of the leadership and said leadership's corp up and left, and all of our arguably best pvpers formed a new corp and moved?

It is this pilots opinion that the PL pos-bust failure was the first shovel of dirt on BRUCE's grave. I'm willing to bet the planning started that night for FOOM's and Shade.'s evac. What really ****es me off about the whole thing is that the other 3000+ people were just left hanging.

BRUCE was a cool idea, and I had nothing but fun the entire time I was a member (minus that last month, of course), but I'd say FOOM and Shade. stole way more than OMEN could have even imagined taking.

I hope they can get some of the old ideal (and trust) back and party it up in Syndicate. I remember that place being a ton of fun. And speaking of Syndicate: Rajere, you're still not fooling anybody. It was no secret that Fried had some control issues (Messiah complex is probably going a little too far), but if anything you have become more like your description of him than he ever was. Spouting your "facts" and "figures" on CAOD without a shred of evidence to back them up, in order to "prove" your side of things, is starting to make you look bad. Just because you say something indignantly doesn't mean people are going to take you at your word. I remember the BRUCE forum posts with you ranting and raving, causing all sorts of drama and trouble, and blaming the entire episode on the leadership, seemingly, because they disagreed with you, just as you are now. You're still full of BS (*not battle ship), but the sad part is you think you've gotten better at it.

This is a pretty interesting article from way-back-when that illustrates one common theme from the old Syndicate days:

Eve-wiki

Fried was always extremely good at propaganda. Face it, whether you like him or not, the guy is really smart. You, on the other hand, argue CAOD posts with a stream of unsubstantiated "nu-uh"s, which leads me to believe that you are not good at propaganda.

To all those who read: thanks for hanging in there.
To those that didn't: you suck (don't try to act indignant; you didn't read this line either OMG TL;DR!!!)

IronGoldenEagle
Caldari
The New Era
C0NVICTED
Posted - 2008.06.13 06:05:00 - [78]
 

Edited by: IronGoldenEagle on 13/06/2008 06:05:40
Nmeh killed Tri and Tri helped PL kill BRUCE at 75FA? We even? Very Happy

Captain Shocker
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.06.13 06:31:00 - [79]
 

Posting in a I keep resurecting thread because I think anyone cares about Bruce thread. Jeebuz let it die 3 pages should tell you no one cares.

Rajere
Gallente
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
Posted - 2008.06.13 06:47:00 - [80]
 

Edited by: Rajere on 13/06/2008 07:29:19
Edited by: Rajere on 13/06/2008 06:58:24
the only facts and figures I mentioned was regarding shade. corp in comparison to my own. You can look up both corps in game to compare membership numbers. You're not allowed to link directly to killboard/killmails in caod, so google-fu to verify those stats. For the record I only compared stats from the time shade. corp began, around 5/4/08 iirc, obviously lifetime kills aren't comparable but of course that was just a strawman of yours anyway. Keep QQing though, poor you guys. btw yes I suck at propaganda, it's why I don't bother. The truth is much easier, if you do something wrong you get called on it, plain and simple. However, spin, damage-control, weaving together a stream of outright lies and convincing other people to believe it, was definitely fried's forte.

and yes, if all you do is fly nano/cloak ***ging ships and kill afk players, anything less than 99% efficiency...like your 79%, is a joke.

Mary Anne
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2008.06.13 08:27:00 - [81]
 



Posting in a threat about BRUCE Zombies...

Modern zombies are typically depicted as mindless, unfeeling monsters with a hunger for human flesh. Typically, these creatures can sustain damage far beyond that of a normal, living human and can pass whatever syndrome that causes their condition onto others. Modern zombies come in mobs and waves, seeking either flesh to eat or people to kill or infect. Typically, they show signs of physical decomposition such as rotting flesh, discolored eyes, and open wounds, and move with a slow, shambling gait. They are generally incapable of communication, showing no signs of personality or rationality.

Modern zombies are closely tied to the idea of a zombie apocalypse, the collapse of civilization caused by a vast plague of undead. The ideas are now so strongly linked that zombies are rarely depicted within any other context.


Tabare Vazquez
Caldari
Uruguay Forever
Posted - 2008.06.13 11:39:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Shinma Apollo
I think what's particularly sad about the whole affair is that we were warned about Marcus Malos (the Omen head) by a member of PL (Gandolf) about 6 weeks before he robbed the alliance fund blind.
Shocked

Scrutt5
Caldari
Fatality.
Posted - 2008.06.13 11:59:00 - [83]
 

Bruce are just about dead and burried from what I can tell.

About time someone said...Fair play to them.

Bruce were the newest of the potential alliances to rival the membership of BOB and the Goons, they gave it a go, got bashed about and lost a lot of members to faction warefare. If eve didnt have such alliances spring up from time to time the game wouldn't be the eve we know and love.

Didnt like them much but respect their attempt at building an extreamly large alliance.

Lets stop kicking the dead horse.







Lets stop kicking the dead horse

Mary Anne
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2008.06.13 13:31:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Scrutt5
Lets stop kicking the dead horse


Dear Scrutt5,

nearly everyone knows its dead - only the horse itself does not realize it. It has been buried several times and still tries to move... What buggers me are the arrogant posts about strength and soon-to-be-power in an analogy to a past perceived as glorious. I did not like their attitude in the past - nowadays even less.

Since they refuse to do what is needed, one takes the time to kick them on boards and shoot them ingame. A task which I do - in all respect - enjoy.

Yours most kindly


Mary Anne


Olex Grant
Minmatar
Resilience.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.06.13 16:43:00 - [85]
 

Edited by: Olex Grant on 13/06/2008 16:43:14
Originally by: Scrutt5
Didnt like them much but respect their attempt at building an extremely large alliance.


About sums it up for me.

Grim Mercy
Minmatar
Heretic Logistics
Heretic Nation
Posted - 2008.06.13 17:08:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Rajere
Edited by: Rajere on 13/06/2008 07:29:19
Edited by: Rajere on 13/06/2008 06:58:24
the only facts and figures I mentioned was regarding shade. corp in comparison to my own. You can look up both corps in game to compare membership numbers. You're not allowed to link directly to killboard/killmails in caod, so google-fu to verify those stats. For the record I only compared stats from the time shade. corp began, around 5/4/08 iirc, obviously lifetime kills aren't comparable but of course that was just a strawman of yours anyway. Keep QQing though, poor you guys. btw yes I suck at propaganda, it's why I don't bother. The truth is much easier, if you do something wrong you get called on it, plain and simple. However, spin, damage-control, weaving together a stream of outright lies and convincing other people to believe it, was definitely fried's forte.

and yes, if all you do is fly nano/cloak ***ging ships and kill afk players, anything less than 99% efficiency...like your 79%, is a joke.


Calling everything that spews from your mouth "The Truth" is spin. Your view of the past is directly opposite from everyone else's memory of events who was around then. Fried may be good at demagoguery and convincing arguement, but he's not that good.

Your killboard stats and comparisons are spin. When called on the fact that you were comparing a two month old corp's stats to yours, you dropped the "obviously lifetime kills aren't comparable but of course that was just a strawman of yours anyway" line, which is saying "yeah, that's true, but it's not important. I didn't want that debate trophy anyway." And your KB has been proven light on the loss-mails in the past, so the figures you provide, while entertaining, are only confirmed through you, and as such are completely biased (not to mention, inaccurate).

Your constant heckling of the former BRUCE leadership is spin. The whole fact that you still post and repost in any and all threads about BRUCE show everyone the huge chip on your shoulder. Can words about past drama be trusted from you, given your obvious disdain and partisan view? You seem to think so; anyone who's ever voted probably thinks not. I personally don't care for them either; I also don't rant and rave at every opportunity about year-old grievances that really just boiled down to personality conflicts.

The fact that you say you don't spin and offer unbiased "truth" is, itself, spin. Why have to state that anywhere if it is, in fact, truth?

I have faith that, someday, you'll get it. You'll understand the CAOD black-out rules we had, and the extremely well thought out posts by the leadership when they did post. You may even understand why almost all troll-posts were completely ignored, not answered with so much as a peep. You'll be able to look back one day and say "wow, I've really come a long ways. I get it now."

Until then, pipe down, because no one who was there and remembers what happened cares what you have to say, and no one that believes any of that drivel is worth having around.

Rajere
Gallente
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
Posted - 2008.06.13 17:25:00 - [87]
 

Edited by: Rajere on 13/06/2008 17:26:09
there's only so many times you can confuse me for someone else, and only so many times I can call you on it before realizing you lack the ability to learn, so I won't bother anymore. The one point I will refute is this:
"And your KB has been proven light on the loss-mails in the past, so the figures you provide, while entertaining, are only confirmed through you, and as such are completely biased (not to mention, inaccurate). "
Proven? One ex-bruce spouts something as fact, and you then parrot it back and so it's proven? Sorrowed made this claim and it was so rediculous I didn't even bother with a retort (seriously, bruce claiming an opponent doesn't post losses? You hid behind a private killboard @ 30% efficiency with over half of your losses going unposted). I could say man up and unhide your killboard before you dare accuse anyone of not posting losses but there's no point now, none of you are still in bruce. I will say this is the most outrageous claim i've ever seen, as unlike yourselves, we require every single loss to be posted. I'll make you a deal, KB is in the sig, if you can find a single lossmail missing, doesn't matter what it is, a pod, a shuttle, hell a newbship even, i'll stop making fun of bruce on caod. Our KB started in October, so please, prove me wrong. Better yet, the killmail system was overhauled 12/6/07, I'll invite chribba or whoever neutral 3rd party into corp to verify any alleged lossmail through the api system. Since your claims are nothing more than baseless propaganda and smack, the very things you accuse me of, when you fail to back up your claims please eat a bowl of, well you know, and stop posting. Thanks.

xRevolveRx
Amarr
Masters of Mayhem
Posted - 2008.06.13 17:34:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Rajere
Edited by: Rajere on 13/06/2008 17:26:09
there's only so many times you can confuse me for someone else, and only so many times I can call you on it before realizing you lack the ability to learn, so I won't bother anymore. The one point I will refute is this:
"And your KB has been proven light on the loss-mails in the past, so the figures you provide, while entertaining, are only confirmed through you, and as such are completely biased (not to mention, inaccurate). "
Proven? One ex-bruce spouts something as fact, and you then parrot it back and so it's proven? Sorrowed made this claim and it was so rediculous I didn't even bother with a retort (seriously, bruce claiming an opponent doesn't post losses? You hid behind a private killboard @ 30% efficiency with over half of your losses going unposted). I could say man up and unhide your killboard before you dare accuse anyone of not posting losses but there's no point now, none of you are still in bruce. I will say this is the most outrageous claim i've ever seen, as unlike yourselves, we require every single loss to be posted. I'll make you a deal, KB is in the sig, if you can find a single lossmail missing, doesn't matter what it is, a pod, a shuttle, hell a newbship even, i'll stop making fun of bruce on caod. Our KB started in October, so please, prove me wrong. Better yet, the killmail system was overhauled 12/6/07, I'll invite chribba or whoever neutral 3rd party into corp to verify any alleged lossmail through the api system. Since your claims are nothing more than baseless propaganda and smack, the very things you accuse me of, when you fail to back up your claims please eat a bowl of, well you know, and stop posting. Thanks.

you expect people to read that ****?

Grim Mercy
Minmatar
Heretic Logistics
Heretic Nation
Posted - 2008.06.13 17:49:00 - [89]
 

BRUCE had a posted official in charge of surfing public KBs and posting loss mails that weren't posted. It did happen, BRUCEs not posting loss mails, but it was rare, and usually found on public killboards and posted anyway. The repeat offenders were warned and then punished if the warning didn't take.

A lot of the statistical errors were caused by NAP-fest alliances posting on only their own KBs, showing 80% effeciency rates against BRUCE, and not taking into account the fact that ALL of them, together, were logged on ours, showing a favorable rate to BRUCE. So, when BRUCE would refute claims that we were getting the crap kicked out of us (in Syndicate, the beatings usually went the other way, hence "BRUCE blobs wah wah wah") we would get accused of making up hundreds of killmails, while the more likely truth was that a few from such-and-such alliance and a few from their friends didn't post their losses.

The disparities were hotly contested, once upon a time, always coming back to BRUCE having a private KB. Well, guess what: BRUCE didn't measure success on K/D ratios, or even ISK lost/destroyed ratios. If that were the case, the last six months would have looked quite different. Other than the Cloud Ring campaign, I don't remember seeing an efficiency over 50%. So, if BRUCE lied, why not go all the way and make our ratios positive? On a private KB, the only reason to inflate numbers would be for an internal morale jedi-mind trick, and it most definitely was not used as such. The only time those statistics were posted publicly were to refute claims that HUZZAH/NOTR/OSS were kicking our butts with unbelievable efficiencies. I'm not saying we never lost fights to any of those entities, we most certainly did, but those entities (especially you, Rajere) tried to tell the entire Eve universe that we were repeatedly getting our asses handed to us, despite our gigantic numbers. That was never the case, and you know it.

Rajere
Gallente
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
Posted - 2008.06.13 18:00:00 - [90]
 

Just keep spinning. "Oh crap Rajere called me on my BS and made me look stupid, quick deflect with yet another baseless accusation" I present to you:

"but those entities (especially you, Rajere) tried to tell the entire Eve universe that we were repeatedly getting our asses handed to us, despite our gigantic numbers."

Anything else you want to pull out of your *** while you're reaching down there anyway? Seriously, stop posting.


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