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Shiken Kan
Posted - 2008.06.04 14:40:00 - [1]
 

Unlike most other ship classes the be all, end all for mining is a sole ship: the hulk. Out of 6 mining ships the only others that are used regularly are the mackinaw for ice mining and the retriever as stepping stone until miners can use the hulk.

The procurer is outmined by all standard mining cruisers and only a couple of hours away from the retriever making it totally useless. Though the covetor is a decent mining ship by itself it also is only 20 hrs of learning away from the hulk making it obsolete once one can actually fly it. The skiff, while working as intended in being the best mercoxit miner in the game is not used due to the relatively low price of this ore, a hulk mining crokite will generate more then twice the income.

Proposed new Covetor:
required skills: mining barge III; Astrogeology IV
no other changes

those changes alone mean that the covetor is very far away skill wise from the hulk and thus would be flown by chars that only part time mine and by ones that are on their way towards a hulk.

Proposed new Retriever:
required skills: mining barge II; Mining drone operation IV
bonus changed to: able to equip strip and ice miners, 20% bonus to drone mining yield and speed per mining barge level
drone bay: 50m^3
cargo size: 4000m^3
no other changes

This ship would be an alternative to the covetor for chars more inclined to drone mining that at this moment lack a dedicated mining ship above the cruiser level. Solo mining with rigs it could surpass the yield of the covetor by about 1%, in gangs the covetor would be a bit better. Though the ship itself is considerably cheaper then a covetor the difference is mitigated by the cost of drone rigs that have to be fitted in order to get the same yield as a covetor.

Proposed new Procurer:
required skills: mining barge I; cloaking III
bonus changed to: able to equip strip and ice miners, 25% bonus to cloaked velocity and 15%reduced cpu need for cloaking devices per mining barge level
New slot layout:
high 2
mid 1
low 1

PG: 35
CPU: 85
Mass: 2,000,000 kg
max velocity: 200 m/s
drone capacity: 0
cargo capacity: 2000m^3

This change moves the ship from its useless entry level role to that of a 0.0 ninja miner. CPU is tight enough as to not allow the fitting of a second strip miner but allows to fit stripper+ab+cloak with barge 1 up to stripper+mwd+advanced cloak with barge 4. This combination gives the ship a high survivability versus other players while its weak tank doesn't allow it to tank any 0.0 rats, forcing it to change belts if those appear. Additionaly the low cost of the ship itself combined with its cargo capacity makes it rather easy to reach the break even point, thus allowing for profitable ninja mining which isn't possible at the moment (at least for higher sp chars).

Proposed new skiff:
as the ship itself does have a role which doesn't work due to the relative low prive of morphite i think that is what should be changed, not the ship itself.



________________
thoughts or comments?

Nariana Verex
Amarr
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2008.06.04 14:49:00 - [2]
 

So the Retriever and the Covetor would have the same sized cargo hold? Right now, the Covetor does have a decent use as a cheap and easily replaced mining ship for 0.0 operations.

What would your stance be on reducing the BPO cost of these ships, and maybe making those BPOs a bit more available? Right now, the blueprint costs are 500m, 1b, and 2b for cheap T1 ships. The standard is 10x the ship's cost, but these are closer to 100x the cost.

Though, with the new addition of these abilities, perhaps an increase to the mineral cost of building these ships would be in order?

Shiken Kan
Posted - 2008.06.04 16:04:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Nariana Verex
So the Retriever and the Covetor would have the same sized cargo hold? Right now, the Covetor does have a decent use as a cheap and easily replaced mining ship for 0.0 operations.

What would your stance be on reducing the BPO cost of these ships, and maybe making those BPOs a bit more available? Right now, the blueprint costs are 500m, 1b, and 2b for cheap T1 ships. The standard is 10x the ship's cost, but these are closer to 100x the cost.

Though, with the new addition of these abilities, perhaps an increase to the mineral cost of building these ships would be in order?


retriever and covetor would have the same cargosize because they would have about the same yield. To achieve this high yield on the covetor one would have to install drone mining augmentors though, one of those would already make the retriever almost as expensive after fittings as the covetor, with 2 it would actually cost about 10m more. (depending on what laser upgrade you fit on the covetor of course)
From my personal experience about every miner in 0.0 opts for the hulk, as it can be used solo when no mining ops are taking place and due to the higher yield of the hulk you have paid for the price difference after about 16 hrs mining crokite. That's another reason i lowered the requirements as to allow part time miners to use all barges, leaving the exhumers for the pros.
Not that i don't believe you, i just have other experiences about this issue.

Unfortunately i don't have much experience with ship construction/r&d, so i can't comment on the bpo price issues, sry.

As for increased mineral costs, i think that is somewhat counter productive as, as i mentioned, the hulk only needs a weekend of mining to pay the difference in cost to the covetor and the retriever would need rigs for a comparative yield (to the covetor, not the hulk)so if you can use it and have a life expectancy of more then a couple of days you'd still take the hulk anyways.
The procurer on the other hand needs to be cheap as you have to expect to die from time to time when mining in hostile space and thus have to be able to replace it more often. Also it actually does have less yield then at the moment, so from a miner's point of view an increase in price isn't justified (imho at least).

procurement specialist
Posted - 2008.06.04 17:00:00 - [4]
 

bonus changed to: able to equip strip and ice miners, 20% bonus to drone mining yield and speed per mining barge level
drone bay: 50m^3

i could support a ship like this in the barge line. I use t2 mining drones with DI 4 already. I wouldn't mine a medium and large size mining drone either though. Able to throw out 5 medium mining drones instead of stuck with lights is about the same affect.

Shiken Kan
Posted - 2008.06.04 17:19:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: procurement specialist
bonus changed to: able to equip strip and ice miners, 20% bonus to drone mining yield and speed per mining barge level
drone bay: 50m^3

i could support a ship like this in the barge line. I use t2 mining drones with DI 4 already. I wouldn't mine a medium and large size mining drone either though. Able to throw out 5 medium mining drones instead of stuck with lights is about the same affect.


while it is true that such drones might have the same effect as the bonus, the problem is that there are 2 mining cruisers out there that utilise drones, namely the augoror and vexor. At the moment they can mine 560m^3 ore per minute just from miners II, if you introduced heavier drones this would increase drastically and with heavy drones the vexor could get comparable results to a covetor at almost no mining specific training time involved. Additionaly it would make the other races' mining cruisers obsolete.

procurement specialist
Posted - 2008.06.04 17:30:00 - [6]
 

hehe i said i would like a ship like this in the barge line. The comment about the same effect being had by larger drones also means that you have no bay left for combat drones. Right now a domi can fit 5 mining drones adn 5 heavy combat drones. putting in 5 heavy mining drones would prevent as many combat drones which seems like a fair tradeoff. If you made t2 light mining drones be 30m3 of ore and medium be 40 and heavy 50m3 it could still balance. I am not suggesting you make light mining drones 30 and heavy 175m3. just something to tweak that extra little bit out.

ghost st
Posted - 2008.06.04 18:51:00 - [7]
 

Best thing to do would be to remove the morphite drops from the drone regions. THe 1-laser barge is for mining morphite. But mining morphite has became useless ever since it became widely available in the drone lands.

Samantha Starshatter
Posted - 2008.06.04 18:59:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Shiken Kan
while it is true that such drones might have the same effect as the bonus, the problem is that there are 2 mining cruisers out there that utilise drones, namely the augoror and vexor. At the moment they can mine 560m^3 ore per minute just from miners II, if you introduced heavier drones this would increase drastically and with heavy drones the vexor could get comparable results to a covetor at almost no mining specific training time involved. Additionaly it would make the other races' mining cruisers obsolete.


In my post I just made regarding medium/heavy mining drones, I have pretty much addressed the issue of drone mining in a vexor/augoror. http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=788924

Allen Ramses
Caldari
Zombicidal Mania
Posted - 2008.06.04 23:19:00 - [9]
 

In my opinion, mining barges need a complete overhaul. As they are now, each vessel is a linear evolution from the previous. In a game like EVE, this makes no sense at all. Mining barges, just like cruisers, should each play a their own unique role. And yes, the covetor skill requirements are too high, and the hulk is only 2 days away from it. That needs to be fixed. I've thought of a few ideas to level the playing field, though they are far from perfect. This is kind of just a toss-up.

Tech I Mining Barges

Procurer:
The Procurer is the smallest of the Mining Barge class vessel designed by the ORE Syndicate. Modifications to this ship's computer allowed for the strip miners to operate at a much higher frequency, resulting in much greater range and the ability to cut the mining cycle in half. The Procurer is seen as the most effective vessel to mine smaller asteroids.

Mining Barge Skill Bonus: Able to equip Strip Miner and Ice Harvester turrets. 10% bonus to Strip Miner optimal range per level.

Penalty: 50% less yield for Strip Miners.
Bonus: 50% reduction for Strip Miner duration.

2x High Slots
1x Mid Slots
1x Low Slots
2000m3 cargohold
ROLE: For those low density large belts

Retriever:
The Retriever is the medium-sized version of the Mining Barge class vessel designed by the ORE Syndicate. The Retriever is known for its great mining potential, as it is the only vessel capable of increasing the power output on Strip Miners while maintaining a stable flow. This in turn gives the Retriever much higher mineral absorption rate.

Mining Barge Skill Bonus: Able to equip Strip Miner and Ice Harvester turrets. 7.5% better yield for Strip Miners per level.

2x High Slots
1x Mid Slots
2x Low Slots
3000m3 cargohold
ROLE: This thing has the highest mining potential over time. A notable buff to the retriever.


Covetor:
The Covetor is the largest of the Mining Barge class vessel designed by the ORE Syndicate. It is sluggish, inefficient, and require lots of upkeep. However, its advantage is a massive cargohold that is capable of holding very large amounts of ore. This ship specializes in larger mining operations.

Mining Barge Skill Bonus: Able to equip Strip Miner and Ice Harvester turrets. 5% bonus to cargo capacity per level.

Penalty: 50% increase for Strip Miner duration.
Bonus: 25% better yield for Strip Miners.

3x High Slots
1x Mid Slots
2x Low Slots
5000m3 cargohold
ROLE: This is for collecting large rocks in space. Only 83% efficient, but has very good capacity.


Continued next post...

Allen Ramses
Caldari
Zombicidal Mania
Posted - 2008.06.04 23:20:00 - [10]
 

...Continued from previous post.

Tech II Mining Barges


Skiff:
The Skiff is the result of years of modifications to the Procurer hull. Lightweight design, low power signature, and tactical engine placement make the Skiff a perfect vessel for low scale mining operations in low security space. While the particular design prohibits any significant defensive capabilities, the pilot should be able to quickly flee if any trouble arrives. The Skiff does an excellent job of mining quickly and quietly.

Mining Barge Skill Bonus: Able to equip Strip Miner and Ice Harvester turrets. 10% bonus to Strip Miner optimal range per level and 7.5% bonus to all shield resistances per level.

Exhumers Skill Bonus: 3% better yield for Strip Miners per level and 20% reduced chance of gas cloud forming per level.

Penalty: 50% less yield for Strip Miners.
Bonus: 50% reduction for Strip Miner duration.

2x high slots
3x mid slots
2x low slots
4500m3
ROLE: Ninja miner, what else? Should have sig radius of about 70, and be able to align quickly. Kinda like a blockade runner without the +2 points.

Mackinaw:
The Mackinaw was specifically designed to accomidate the ever increasing demand of ice products. Modular additions to the core of the retriever brought better survivability, and more importantly a greatly improved ice mining subsystem. High powered, low frequency drilling allows for a significantly higher absorbtion of ice, though with a longer duration. This vessel is without a doubt the most effective ice miner in the known galaxy.

Mining Barge Skill Bonus: Able to equip Strip Miner and Ice Harvester turrets. 7.5% better yield for Strip Miners and 7.5% bonus to all shield resistances per level.
Exhumers Skill Bonus: 3% reduction to Strip Miner duration and 5% reduction to Ice Harvester duration per level.

Special Ability: 100% increase to Ice Harvester yield, but 25% increase to Ice Harvester duration.

2x High Slots
3x Mid Slots
1x Low Slots
6000m3 cargohold
ROLE: We all know the Mackinaw. Ice mining properties are identical. But now it's also good for mining roids.

Hulk:
The hulk is a direct evolution of the Covetor mining barge. The capability of cargo capacity of this behemoth bests most industrial ships. Though it is even more sluggish than the covetor, the defensive capabilities of this vessel have significantly improved. This allows the pilot to better hold his own should trouble arrive, and thus is much more capable of withstanding the dangers of deep space. Because of the power requirements of this ship, mining cycles are further lengthened to compensate, and efficiency may suffer with smaller asteroids.

Mining Barge Skill Bonus: Able to equip Strip Miner and Ice Harvester turrets. 5% bonus to cargo capacity and 7.5% bonus to all shield resistances per level.

Exhumers Skill Bonus: 5% increase to shield boost amount and 5% reduction in shield boost capacitor use per level.

Penalty: 120% increase for Strip Miner duration.
Bonus: 70% better yield for Strip Miners.

3x High Slots
3x Mid Slots
2x Low Slots
8000m3 cargohold
ROLE: 92% efficient with a massive cargo capacity. 10k cargo out of the box. Also fits a much more reliable tank.


So, does anyone want to flame me to death for that?

Ecky X
SniggWaffe
FREE KARTTOON NOW
Posted - 2008.06.05 00:29:00 - [11]
 

How about a barge that has a bonus to using mining links?

procurement specialist
Posted - 2008.06.05 00:33:00 - [12]
 

i mine over 5km3 a cycle before drones atm in any gang. making the hulk have 10km3 will still not hold 2 cycles.

also tier 3 should beat tier 2 for mining. drake can take ferox, cane can take clone .... I wouldn't mind changing the focus on the retriever and/or skiff to allow more mining than the covetor/hulk with nearly maxed drone skills though. it is a secondary ore source that I feel is greatly underutilized

procurement specialist
Posted - 2008.06.05 00:36:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Ecky X
How about a barge that has a bonus to using mining links?


it would interfere with strip miners. however a ship with 2 turrets that was exceptionally affected by mining links would be interesting. +50% effectiveness of mining links would allow a gang with a very powerful leader to outmine the hulk. but it would take a gang with a really good leader to be effective and not the solo miner.

Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
Posted - 2008.06.05 00:39:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: procurement specialist
i mine over 5km3 a cycle before drones atm in any gang. making the hulk have 10km3 will still not hold 2 cycles.

also tier 3 should beat tier 2 for mining. drake can take ferox, cane can take clone .... I wouldn't mind changing the focus on the retriever and/or skiff to allow more mining than the covetor/hulk with nearly maxed drone skills though. it is a secondary ore source that I feel is greatly underutilized


The standard hold on Hulk is 8k right now. And this suggested form gets a boost from training, just like Indy's do. That's before adding Expanders, Rigs, or Containers... which will make it even more. So I think this will be able to carry a little bit of rock in the end.

I don't know of too many folks who use Exhumers with mining drones. Most are using Combat to ward off rats and the like. But I suppose if there are players using them, then it might be nice to see a buff for drones. Heck, maybe it'll encourange miners to use them after all.

I wouldn't mind having one of these new Hulks.

procurement specialist
Posted - 2008.06.05 02:44:00 - [15]
 

t2 mining drones and di 4 gets me almost 15 ark/minute. it isn't anything like another turret but it is noticible.

Vanessa Vasquez
Quantar Swords
Posted - 2008.06.05 11:12:00 - [16]
 

Actually, i was thinking about the barges some 3 days ago. Funny that you just brought this up Shiken :)

Barges for different purposes would be a nice thing. But imho your suggestions have to few drawbacks. A barge that would actually have her defensive/offensive capabilities boosted (like the hulk actually), should have a drawback in mining amount/cargo hold. One should have to decide wich ship he'll choose for the environment at hand. A slow moving papertank for the best mining outcome, an agile variant (maybe with cloaking capabilties) for ninja mining and so on.

Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2008.06.05 11:19:00 - [17]
 

Some very nice proposals. As a person who has done a fair bit of mining and got somewhat bored with the process, I like the idea of having more specialised roles for the ships.

Originally by: Shiken Kan
Proposed new Procurer:
required skills: mining barge I; cloaking III
bonus changed to: able to equip strip and ice miners, 25% bonus to cloaked velocity and 15%reduced cpu need for cloaking devices per mining barge level
...

This change moves the ship from its useless entry level role to that of a 0.0 ninja miner. CPU is tight enough as to not allow the fitting of a second strip miner but allows to fit stripper+ab+cloak with barge 1 up to stripper+mwd+advanced cloak with barge 4. This combination gives the ship a high survivability versus other players while its weak tank doesn't allow it to tank any 0.0 rats, forcing it to change belts if those appear.


A totally off-the-wall notion perhaps, but what about changing it so you could fit a cov-ops cloak to this? Or perhaps just the Skiff, the T2 variant, in line with the T1-T2 stealth in frigates (i.e. only the cov ops can fit it, not a T1 frigate).

Seriously, a barge isn't that manoeuverable, it's in fact a pain to move and align; cloaking ships are still vulnerable at gates and at fields regardless, and I can't see anyone actually using a warp-in-cloak barge for anything except ninja mining. Intel ops? Cov ops is faster and better and cheaper. Ambush? You must be joking right? I can see it now, being ganked by 9 barges... Laughing I don't think it's such a crazy idea to be honest.

Of course, I'm amazed this thread has lasted so long without a single testosterone-fueled 'OMGZ cloaking bagres, how can we huntz teh macro minners like that' rubbish. To potentially head that off, I don't think any of these changes would affect farmers at all - people have this rather naive notion that they're all bots and they can't change tactics at all, and it's simply not true.

Shiken Kan
Posted - 2008.06.05 11:46:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Samantha Starshatter

In my post I just made regarding medium/heavy mining drones, I have pretty much addressed the issue of drone mining in a vexor/augoror. http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=788924


Though of course making the heavier drones mining ship only would solve the issue with mining cruisers i think that it's always better to not make excessive use of class restrictions. Additionally i believe that drones deserve a dedicated drone mining ship, just as combat drones got their dedicated vessels which utilize them as main damage type. Also simply introducing other mining drones wouldn't make any of the 'bad' mining barges any better, on the opposite it would be a nerf to the small barges and the skiff.

Originally by: Allen Ramses

stuff


er so severely gimping the hulks yield for a useless cargobay buff considering a cycle now takes 6:40 and an even more useless tank buff (not to mention the yet again more useless cap buff)seems a good idea to you? Shocked
Your mackinaw outmines your hulk even with stripminers.
the retriever outmines the covetor.
cargobay is nice to have, but what really counts for 99% of the mining is yield. If you have have 25% more cargo but need about 3 times as long to fill it the bonus is useless even when not mining into a can.
Also why do all tier one ships get a second strip miner? And who would use this skiff to ninja mine? it can't fit any tank sturdy enough to make it back to a gate, it's t2 hence uninsurable. The present skiff is fine, all it needs are fair morphite prices, ie removing the opulent compound from the drones.

Shiken Kan
Posted - 2008.06.05 12:38:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Shiken Kan on 05/06/2008 12:42:23
Originally by: Vanessa Vasquez
Actually, i was thinking about the barges some 3 days ago. Funny that you just brought this up Shiken :)

Barges for different purposes would be a nice thing. But imho your suggestions have to few drawbacks. A barge that would actually have her defensive/offensive capabilities boosted (like the hulk actually), should have a drawback in mining amount/cargo hold. One should have to decide wich ship he'll choose for the environment at hand. A slow moving papertank for the best mining outcome, an agile variant (maybe with cloaking capabilties) for ninja mining and so on.


While i do understand where you are coming from a nerf to the yield of tanked barges would mean that their only remaining use would be solo mining in 0.0 . As skiff and hulk are both tanked and the mackinaw is specialized in ice mining that would mean that t1 barges should outmine exhumers and i doubt that this would be very wise. What could be done ofc would be a reduction of the hulks cpu so that it can only be tanked when offlining one of its strip miners, thus reducing its yield in 'solomode' while still being top tier in gangs.

Originally by: Astria Tiphareth

A totally off-the-wall notion perhaps, but what about changing it so you could fit a cov-ops cloak to this? Or perhaps just the Skiff, the T2 variant, in line with the T1-T2 stealth in frigates (i.e. only the cov ops can fit it, not a T1 frigate).

Seriously, a barge isn't that manoeuverable, it's in fact a pain to move and align; cloaking ships are still vulnerable at gates and at fields regardless, and I can't see anyone actually using a warp-in-cloak barge for anything except ninja mining. Intel ops? Cov ops is faster and better and cheaper. Ambush? You must be joking right? I can see it now, being ganked by 9 barges... Laughing I don't think it's such a crazy idea to be honest.



the problem is that you need to be more nimble when wanting to survive a bubblecamp you jumped in (mass and speed of my proposal is more like an af then a barge tbh). What normally happens is that you turn on your mwd and cloak immediately, the campers will respond with ceptors mwding to the position they saw you, so with the speed of a normal barge you will maybe have made 500m until they arrive and thus be decloaked.
On the other hand you lack the grid to fit a recon launcher, so even a nimble barge would indeed make a very bad covops, so yes maybe one could fit a covops cloak but i honestly didn't want even a ninja barge to be as survivable as a covops or recon ship. Additionally the high price of this cloak would make it harder to reach the break even point, but then maybe it should be hard. Embarassed

/edit
i didn't want to change the skiff because i think that the ship itself is perfectly fine but the morphite pricing is broken thanks to drone compounds, so i'd rather want this to change.

procurement specialist
Posted - 2008.06.05 15:12:00 - [20]
 

a high break even point is fine if if the isk/hour after breaking even is better than alternatives. part of the risk vs reward bit imo.

Vanessa Vasquez
Quantar Swords
Posted - 2008.06.06 09:18:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Shiken Kan
While i do understand where you are coming from a nerf to the yield of tanked barges would mean that their only remaining use would be solo mining in 0.0 . As skiff and hulk are both tanked and the mackinaw is specialized in ice mining that would mean that t1 barges should outmine exhumers and i doubt that this would be very wise. What could be done ofc would be a reduction of the hulks cpu so that it can only be tanked when offlining one of its strip miners, thus reducing its yield in 'solomode' while still being top tier in gangs.


True, my focus wasn't on 0.0 mining, but solo low sec/high sec. I think there is actually a demand for a barge with "fighting" capabilities. Not for 0.0 gang, but low sec solo, or even high sec at war times. What about if the skiff would become the barge with "fighting" capabilities? I was thinking like a tank that can stand a BS for some time till reinforcements arrive, a drone bay large enough to equal the firepower of a T1 cruiser (maybe some addidional 2 heavy launcher highs) and enough mids to have options for either max tanking or ewar? Of course, the hulks tank has to get nerfed then in some way, and the skiffs mining amount and/or cargohold as well.

But first, we have to make sure that there is a demand for such a vessel Smile

Carmizan
DOCS RUFF RIDERS
Vanguard Imperium
Posted - 2008.06.06 10:18:00 - [22]
 

Allen Ramses I like your ideas for the mining barges except i would change a couple of things

1. if the Skiff is going to be a Ninja miner then I would give it a +1 warp core stab. similar to the blockade runners. After all even if it is an agile ship it can still be caught so better to give the pilot a reasonable chance of escape.

and

2. If the Hulk is a direct evolution of the Covetor mining barge then i would add a high slot for mining links and give the ship the bonus to use it.

Another idea would be to add an extra Tech II mining barge based on the Procurer and give that 2 high slots but onlt able to fit one turret and giving it the bonuses for using a mining link

The reason being I have found that in most large scale mining ops people are reluctant to use battlecrusier to mine and use the mining link when they can use a barge. They feel that the loss in their own output is greater than the benefits. Now i am not saying this is fact only that this has been stated in certain large scale ops that i have been on in the past.

procurement specialist
Posted - 2008.06.06 11:14:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Vanessa Vasquez
Originally by: Shiken Kan
While i do understand where you are coming from a nerf to the yield of tanked barges would mean that their only remaining use would be solo mining in 0.0 . As skiff and hulk are both tanked and the mackinaw is specialized in ice mining that would mean that t1 barges should outmine exhumers and i doubt that this would be very wise. What could be done ofc would be a reduction of the hulks cpu so that it can only be tanked when offlining one of its strip miners, thus reducing its yield in 'solomode' while still being top tier in gangs.


True, my focus wasn't on 0.0 mining, but solo low sec/high sec. I think there is actually a demand for a barge with "fighting" capabilities. Not for 0.0 gang, but low sec solo, or even high sec at war times. What about if the skiff would become the barge with "fighting" capabilities? I was thinking like a tank that can stand a BS for some time till reinforcements arrive, a drone bay large enough to equal the firepower of a T1 cruiser (maybe some addidional 2 heavy launcher highs) and enough mids to have options for either max tanking or ewar? Of course, the hulks tank has to get nerfed then in some way, and the skiffs mining amount and/or cargohold as well.

But first, we have to make sure that there is a demand for such a vessel Smile


use a mining bs :D

Shiken Kan
Posted - 2008.06.06 12:13:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Carmizan
Allen Ramses I like your ideas for the mining barges except i would change a couple of things

1. if the Skiff is going to be a Ninja miner then I would give it a +1 warp core stab. similar to the blockade runners. After all even if it is an agile ship it can still be caught so better to give the pilot a reasonable chance of escape.

and

2. If the Hulk is a direct evolution of the Covetor mining barge then i would add a high slot for mining links and give the ship the bonus to use it.

Another idea would be to add an extra Tech II mining barge based on the Procurer and give that 2 high slots but onlt able to fit one turret and giving it the bonuses for using a mining link

The reason being I have found that in most large scale mining ops people are reluctant to use battlecrusier to mine and use the mining link when they can use a barge. They feel that the loss in their own output is greater than the benefits. Now i am not saying this is fact only that this has been stated in certain large scale ops that i have been on in the past.


At the moment a skiff can tank about 2/3rd as much dps as a hulk, that's not really much for pvp. The change would even reduce its midslots to 3, so you won't get more then probably 50 dps omnitanked and that would be with a deadspace booster. it can only field 3 light drones as defense, so any ceptor will most likely destroy it before getting into trouble in a fight not to speak of hacs or hics even. If you fit a web you will decrease this tiny tank even more so putting on 2 points is a no brainer.
honestly the chances of surviving a pvp encounter in any tanked barge are close to nil so most likely would be better off just using an untanked t1 one and collect your premium after being killed.

About foreman links, it's useful if your mining gang has reached a size of 4 hulks to take a mining bc with link as next ship (if a skilled director is in the gang ofc). People that debate that should seriously read up on gang links because they waste quite a lot of iskies.
Now if you consider fitting one of those to barges the problem is simply that you can't force people to not fit a strip miner in that slot solo. cpu requirements of bonused command modules is only 10 lower then that of a strip miner, pg requirements are 188 higher even and strippers don't use hardpoints, so there is no way to enforce this. Confused

Guilliman R
Gallente
Northstar Cabal
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2008.06.12 01:24:00 - [25]
 

Honestly, I've suggested this before. I wouldn't mind seeing the barges cargo capacity at least 10x more then what it currently is. The down side of that would be that they ONLY can carry raw ore, no items, no refined minerals, just raw rocks.

AFK mining happens now anyway, and tbh, mostly I check every 3 odd minutes in my coveter to see if my roid hasn't depleted yet anyway. Don't think it'd be any different if the cargo cap was much larger.

At least something needs to be done about mining. Yes I know I'm bumping this thread from page 5. But please CCP. When I quit a few months ago there was some nice talk and encouraging words that ccp was looking into it from afar. It's sad that now I've returned with financial means to support one (probably my other account later on as well) mining still is the same old as ever. Please allow us to carry more raw rocks, just for the sake of convenience.

I beg you, please have a say in this if anyone reads this.


 

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