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Gharr Rhinn
Posted - 2008.06.02 20:04:00 - [1]
 

I loved the new trailer, but these are staged with abilities we really don't have access to in game. Fleet formations look awesome in the trailer, but in game it people bouncing off each other and drones with %99 of them having a sensor boosters active.

1. I'd like to see the sensor booster animation changed to something more subtle.
2. Fleet formations could be a nice addition.

These trailers get people interested in playing, but set them up for a let down in many cases.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2008.06.02 20:15:00 - [2]
 

I'd have to agree at least as far as the senor booster effect.

4rc4ng3L
Gallente
C R Y O
Posted - 2008.06.02 20:17:00 - [3]
 

I can see Fleet Formations being added eventually...

A new sensor booster effect would be nicer

Hanneshannes
Posted - 2008.06.02 20:18:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Hanneshannes on 02/06/2008 20:18:24
Heh, yeah, the SB effect looks funny when you see thse huge fleets with 90% of them creating little bubbly things.

cal nereus
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2008.06.02 20:21:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: cal nereus on 02/06/2008 20:23:20

Very true. Both trailers have show-cased very attractive abilities that are not possible in-game. This can be misleading. Looking back to when I was new to Eve, I'm sure to have been misled by these trailers too.

Who knows, though. Maybe CCP has a secret plan to actually incorporate these abilities in the future? Organized and attractive fleet formations, and a new sensor booster effect wouldn't hurt. And they're easily possible. You get formations in other games all the time, and an effect can easily be made more subtle.

If CCP isn't planning these changes though, then I guess in that case it's a classic break between the graphics designers, animators, story-tellers, and game designers/coders. I wouldn't be surprised to find out those guys aren't collaborating at all on these trailers.

Archon T'orn
Posted - 2008.06.02 20:41:00 - [6]
 

Those were movies, folks. Movies are never an indication of the real thing. Hell, look at any other game trailers and compare that to what you play. Be thankful that what you saw in the trailer is comparable to what you see in-game.

Otherwise, I'll personally be looking forward to when I can piledrive my capital-class into a station of my choosing. Jita 4-4, locked...

SCSPOOK
Caldari
16th Interspacial Dynasty
The 11th Hour
Posted - 2008.06.02 20:55:00 - [7]
 

Leave the sensor booster animation alone thanks. Go ruin something else with subtlety.

Caiman Graystock
Caldari
Cornelius Starship and Computer Design
Posted - 2008.06.02 21:22:00 - [8]
 

Even if fleet formations were possible, would anyone really do it? It'd be an interesting option if forming up gave some kind of bonus, but otherwise it'd just be pretty eye candy the novelty of which would wear off pretty quickly.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2008.06.02 21:37:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Caiman Graystock
Even if fleet formations were possible, would anyone really do it? It'd be an interesting option if forming up gave some kind of bonus, but otherwise it'd just be pretty eye candy the novelty of which would wear off pretty quickly.


unless it was automatic.

every time you warp, every time you jump the ships auto formation.

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.06.02 21:58:00 - [10]
 

Formations would matter in EVE if each unit of fomation could represent a group of ships, and if FC could create formation settings for each fleet.

For example, simplest kind of formation:
FC opens simple formation editor, creates 2 units, places 1 unit 150 km from another unit. Saves formation plan, loads it in Fleet interface, drags all the tacklers in one unit, drags the snipers into 2nd unit. Then when FC issues warp to 0, the tacklers warp to 0 while the snipers warp at 150 km.

Alternatively, FC can open formation editor, setup a few units around a gate (simulated), then load it in fleet, put the people he wants in specific formation units, then click "get in formation" button, and the blob slowly drifts into their assigned positions.

This type of thing can have real value in EVE. If FCs can't have that much control, no need to bother with formations.

Alora Venoda
GalTech
Whiskey Creek Alliance
Posted - 2008.06.02 22:04:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Ephemeron
Formations would matter in EVE if each unit of fomation could represent a group of ships, and if FC could create formation settings for each fleet.

For example, simplest kind of formation:
FC opens simple formation editor, creates 2 units, places 1 unit 150 km from another unit. Saves formation plan, loads it in Fleet interface, drags all the tacklers in one unit, drags the snipers into 2nd unit. Then when FC issues warp to 0, the tacklers warp to 0 while the snipers warp at 150 km.

Alternatively, FC can open formation editor, setup a few units around a gate (simulated), then load it in fleet, put the people he wants in specific formation units, then click "get in formation" button, and the blob slowly drifts into their assigned positions.

This type of thing can have real value in EVE. If FCs can't have that much control, no need to bother with formations.


wow, that would be awesome!

Crazy Tasty
Beyond Divinity Inc
Beyond Virginity
Posted - 2008.06.02 23:29:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Alora Venoda
Originally by: Ephemeron
Formations would matter in EVE if each unit of fomation could represent a group of ships, and if FC could create formation settings for each fleet.

For example, simplest kind of formation:
FC opens simple formation editor, creates 2 units, places 1 unit 150 km from another unit. Saves formation plan, loads it in Fleet interface, drags all the tacklers in one unit, drags the snipers into 2nd unit. Then when FC issues warp to 0, the tacklers warp to 0 while the snipers warp at 150 km.

Alternatively, FC can open formation editor, setup a few units around a gate (simulated), then load it in fleet, put the people he wants in specific formation units, then click "get in formation" button, and the blob slowly drifts into their assigned positions.

This type of thing can have real value in EVE. If FCs can't have that much control, no need to bother with formations.


wow, that would be awesome!


Except for the fact that the FC is then playing a big fancy RTS now, and the people supposed to be flying those ships are just hitting F1, F2 ect. Train your people to fly their ships right, and you no longer have a need for what was suggested. When ever I call shots I automatically expect this, based on who is flying what.

Little Matt
Caldari
New Fnord Industries
Posted - 2008.06.02 23:33:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Ephemeron
Formations would matter in EVE if each unit of fomation could represent a group of ships, and if FC could create formation settings for each fleet.

For example, simplest kind of formation:
FC opens simple formation editor, creates 2 units, places 1 unit 150 km from another unit. Saves formation plan, loads it in Fleet interface, drags all the tacklers in one unit, drags the snipers into 2nd unit. Then when FC issues warp to 0, the tacklers warp to 0 while the snipers warp at 150 km.

Alternatively, FC can open formation editor, setup a few units around a gate (simulated), then load it in fleet, put the people he wants in specific formation units, then click "get in formation" button, and the blob slowly drifts into their assigned positions.

This type of thing can have real value in EVE. If FCs can't have that much control, no need to bother with formations.


No.
This would be bad. Do you really want the FC to be able to control where your ship moves? What if he doesn't really understand the capabilities of your ship? or you as a pilot? Maybe you would like him to have fire control as well?
Think about it, then he could decide which guns fired at whom.
Again, no.

logesh
Posted - 2008.06.02 23:56:00 - [14]
 

okay hows this:

thankyou HW2

fc sets the formation using pre set

the fleet warps in and inital deployment is in this set fleet dispersion BUT the fleet can then be broken at any time u are not locked in there just on a preset so you warp in and start fighting organised

Research Associate
Posted - 2008.06.03 00:32:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Little Matt
Originally by: Ephemeron
Formations would matter in EVE if each unit of fomation could represent a group of ships, and if FC could create formation settings for each fleet.

For example, simplest kind of formation:
FC opens simple formation editor, creates 2 units, places 1 unit 150 km from another unit. Saves formation plan, loads it in Fleet interface, drags all the tacklers in one unit, drags the snipers into 2nd unit. Then when FC issues warp to 0, the tacklers warp to 0 while the snipers warp at 150 km.

Alternatively, FC can open formation editor, setup a few units around a gate (simulated), then load it in fleet, put the people he wants in specific formation units, then click "get in formation" button, and the blob slowly drifts into their assigned positions.

This type of thing can have real value in EVE. If FCs can't have that much control, no need to bother with formations.


No.
This would be bad. Do you really want the FC to be able to control where your ship moves? What if he doesn't really understand the capabilities of your ship? or you as a pilot? Maybe you would like him to have fire control as well?
Think about it, then he could decide which guns fired at whom.
Again, no.


Would that really be so different from fleet combat now? It's basically like an RTS where the FC calls the shots and you get to be a peon and f1-f8, alt f1-f8 etc, and maybe move a little if you're doing nano***gotry. I would hope the FC understands how ships in EVE work...otherwise he shouldn't be the FC.

Capabilities of your ship? Check...hopefully your fleet requires semi-consistent setups.
Fire control? Pretty much yeah. Thats why they call primary.

Armoured C
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2008.06.03 00:35:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Armoured C on 03/06/2008 00:35:11
there already is a fleet formation when you drop your fleet out of warp you are shaped as a bubble ( more noticable when there are lots of you ) or i like to call it the bowling ball

Valkazm
Amarr
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2008.06.03 00:35:00 - [17]
 

LEAVE CCP ALONE !

Oakrayven
Gallente
Federal Defence Union
Posted - 2008.06.03 02:36:00 - [18]
 

Realisticaly? the second the fight starts the formation goes *POOF* as everyone trys to get to their optimal and open fire

Tarminic
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2008.06.03 02:42:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Caiman Graystock
Even if fleet formations were possible, would anyone really do it? It'd be an interesting option if forming up gave some kind of bonus, but otherwise it'd just be pretty eye candy the novelty of which would wear off pretty quickly.


unless it was automatic.

every time you warp, every time you jump the ships auto formation.

People wouldn't do it unless there was some kind of tactical advantage in doing so - the same as in real warfare. Unfortunately, in real warfare you have things like identically-armed ships, line-of-sight, friendly fire, and a hell of a lot of other things that are too complex for EVE to handle.

Of course, you could include other advantages to flying in formation such as sensor-linking, improved defenses, etc. But do you really want to give players more of a reason to coagulate into a single entity?Wink

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2008.06.03 06:26:00 - [20]
 

Bad idea to let FC basicly fly all ships.

Also bad idea to introduce artificial bonusses when in formation.

It would be used when things as line of sight and friendly fire were introduced together with formations. Then you would rather use formations than having several dreads not being able to fire because some minmatar garbage ship is in front of you.

Brachis
Caldari
Eve Liberation Force
OWN Alliance
Posted - 2008.06.03 07:03:00 - [21]
 

Formation commands that directly influence the movement of a ship are a bad idea, I agree.

However, a better option would be for the fleet commander to have formation orders. Being able to flag an exact point in space using a fleet organization tool, and having it instantly broadcast to the desired player. Treating the broadcast location as a beacon in the tactical overlay would also give players under command more detailed movement options when their FC is giving them effective orders.
The player can then choose to fly to the location while still being in control of his ship.
These broadcast orders could be given to wings, squads, or individual players.

The ability to flag an exact position gives the FC detailed order capabilities which not even voice chat can chat. Not only does this not dis-empower the individual pilots, but it also means that a highly skilled FC, commanding pilots who understand how to operate efficiently under orders, will be able to tactically influence a combat situation and benefit.

Imagine a fleet engagement:
The Fleet Commander and his squadrons exit their warp, and the FC quickly takes in the state of the battlefield.
His fleet has warped in at various ranges to their cloaked scout, but their positions aren't optimal for engaging the enemy fleet. He quickly broadcasts targets, and his mind buzzes with tactical information. He flags different locations for his squadrons and key members, picking out exact coordinates using his FC targeting overview and broadcasts the orders. He gives specific spots for his allies to work from, no generic orders like "Stay at 100k", he has complete control.
He's able to pick exact locations. His veteran pilots who know how he thinks are already fixing to move into position by the time he's given the orders, but the newer, inexperienced, members of his alliance don't even have time to be confused by the battle... their FC has told them exactly where they can be of the most use. As pilots move into position, the battle intensifies. As the battle continues, he is able to give orders to new locations best suited to counter the enemy's formation and tactics.
He can even broadcast specific locations in empty space for his stealth bomber pilots to align to and drop their devastating payloads of bombs. No more eyeballing distances and trying to clumsily place bombs on invisible targets, with a specific spot to align to, and a distance indicator to their beacon, the bombers are able to place their explosives with the accuracy of a JDAM.
And better yet, the FC has received word that reinforcements have just entered system, so he broadcasts a specific set of coordinates to the new squads and they warp in exactly where they're needed.

Power to the FC.

goodby4u
Valor Inc.
Valor Empire
Posted - 2008.06.03 07:11:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Gharr Rhinn
I loved the new trailer, but these are staged with abilities we really don't have access to in game. Fleet formations look awesome in the trailer, but in game it people bouncing off each other and drones with %99 of them having a sensor boosters active.

1. I'd like to see the sensor booster animation changed to something more subtle.
2. Fleet formations could be a nice addition.

These trailers get people interested in playing, but set them up for a let down in many cases.
There is no reason to have a specific formation, unless you made it so that if somebody is between you and your target he gets hit and not your target.

Other then that, formations are rather useless.

Varrakk
Menace ll Society
Posted - 2008.06.03 07:14:00 - [23]
 

Fleet formations would be a blassing for capital ships.
(And ultra importantly, keeps us from humping and bumping each other. One less chance for desync)

And it would look ultra cool, its not like caps move alot
(with the exception of exiting warp and we're hurled like projectiles in ever direction)


PS! A fleet of sensor booster ships makes with wanna run outside and stab someone with a rubber spoon

Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2008.06.03 07:24:00 - [24]
 

The last time I heard, fleet formations were scheduled for sometime in 2005.

Primnproper
Posted - 2008.06.03 07:43:00 - [25]
 

Ok if you don't like the fc controlling your ship (not that he doesn't already with gang warp for instance...) how about he sets up a formation and you get a broadcast and a little icon in space showing where he wants you to be and then you ahev the choice to move there....

Zey Nadar
Gallente
Unknown Soldiers
Posted - 2008.06.03 07:52:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Zey Nadar on 03/06/2008 07:53:21
Yes there definitely are useful factors in fleet formations. But because they arent so crucial Im afraid we'll never see them :/

Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2008.06.03 09:11:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Armoured C
Edited by: Armoured C on 03/06/2008 00:35:11
there already is a fleet formation when you drop your fleet out of warp you are shaped as a bubble ( more noticable when there are lots of you ) or i like to call it the bowling ball


Battle ball sounds better, but it is actually the optimum formation for fleet warfare (everyone at set range from the target and within remote rep range of each other), so why would you want anything else? As for different ship types having different combat roles, this is what wings and squads are for. As all ships in eve have 360 firing circle and can shoot through each other formations are completely redundant.

Rashonna
2H Industries
Posted - 2008.06.03 09:57:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Ephemeron
Formations would matter in EVE if each unit of fomation could represent a group of ships, and if FC could create formation settings for each fleet.

For example, simplest kind of formation:
FC opens simple formation editor, creates 2 units, places 1 unit 150 km from another unit. Saves formation plan, loads it in Fleet interface, drags all the tacklers in one unit, drags the snipers into 2nd unit. Then when FC issues warp to 0, the tacklers warp to 0 while the snipers warp at 150 km.

Alternatively, FC can open formation editor, setup a few units around a gate (simulated), then load it in fleet, put the people he wants in specific formation units, then click "get in formation" button, and the blob slowly drifts into their assigned positions.

This type of thing can have real value in EVE. If FCs can't have that much control, no need to bother with formations.


Awesome idea. Propose that **** in the Assembly Hall. Go!
Seriously, do it.

Melor Rend
Posted - 2008.06.03 10:51:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Gharr Rhinn
These trailers get people interested in playing, but set them up for a let down in many cases.


Yeah at the latest when they actually get in their first fleet fight with more then 100 or 150 people on grid... instead of a nice fleet and cynos opening they'll first have to load the grid for anything between 1 and 30 minutes and take about 3-5 minutes to activate a module. Then when they get their first fleet BS killed without ever loading the grid they petition the loss and get told that "there are no problems" with the game... rofl.

If it weren't for the unique game play and harshness of EVE I would be so out of here... technically EVE really is pretty dismal from my experience... and the seemingly inexistent or broken server-logs (the ones that never show any problems) also don't exactly help.

Naomi Wildfire
Amarr
Spricer
Raiden.
Posted - 2008.06.03 11:15:00 - [30]
 

Its kinda funny that the Minmatar doesnt know that they cant beat Concord ^^

Every mid sized Alliance would laugh at the size of the Minmatar/Thukker fleet.


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