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blankseplocked 2003 Thorax setup - update advice
 
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
Posted - 2008.07.06 09:20:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Gartel Reiman
With three times the EHP, you will last three times as long. There's no point doing 50% more damage if you only get to apply it for a third of the time - that is a waste of perfectly good DPS. In fact if we're assuming solo setups, then DPS / EHP would be a reasonably meaningful figure as a measure of how much total damage you're going to be able to put out before you die - if this number is greater than your opponent's EHP, you win. ECM drones obviously make this less clear, but in both directions still favour the setups with higher EHP.

So you'd be silly to make it paper-thin on the rational that it can't stand up to anything for long. If you couldn't kill it in 30 seconds with a plated setup, there's no way that you would have killed it in 10 seconds with a gank setup.


Late reply, but might as well:

Your problem assumption is right here: "In fact if we're assuming solo setups". I'm NOT assuming solo setups, solo PvP in a T1 cruiser is a waste of time.

Now, the real scenario you're looking at is living 50% longer once you start taking fire. Let's say you are called primary two minutes into a fight, and die in 30 seconds with the plate setup, or 10 seconds with the full-gank setup. The full-gank setup does 50% more dps for the two minutes while it isn't primary, and the tank setup does damage for an extra 20 seconds. Which do you think is more? Here's a hint: for that tank setup to win, even in the two-minute fight, it would have to survive a full minute longer than the gank setup, and that just isn't going to happen.

HONORABLEWARRIORSWIFE
Posted - 2008.07.06 09:43:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: Gartel Reiman
With three times the EHP, you will last three times as long. There's no point doing 50% more damage if you only get to apply it for a third of the time - that is a waste of perfectly good DPS. In fact if we're assuming solo setups, then DPS / EHP would be a reasonably meaningful figure as a measure of how much total damage you're going to be able to put out before you die - if this number is greater than your opponent's EHP, you win. ECM drones obviously make this less clear, but in both directions still favour the setups with higher EHP.

So you'd be silly to make it paper-thin on the rational that it can't stand up to anything for long. If you couldn't kill it in 30 seconds with a plated setup, there's no way that you would have killed it in 10 seconds with a gank setup.


solo PvP in a T1 cruiser is a waste of time.




Stopped reading here Laughing

Doc Extropy
Gallente
Cruentus Invicta
The Covenant Alliance
Posted - 2008.07.06 10:05:00 - [33]
 

Stampede, the setup you posted makes me and my alt cry. Crying or Very sad

There is NO NEED (!) for RCUs, also NEVER NEVER NEVER use shield tanking on a 'rax. Mixed rails are also a no - go.

For PvE (since you are using rails I guess you are going PvE) I recommend something like this:

* rat specific tanking with a medium repper II and no plate but hardeners / membranes
* cap rechargers in the mid slots
* rails of the same size in the high slots
* rat specific drones

If PvP is for you then go for:

* blasters
* mwd
* tackling
* damage mods
* passive armor tanking (plating)

Jim McGregor
Posted - 2008.07.06 10:08:00 - [34]
 


Wow what a setup...

Scratch that and start learning Eve basics again. Smile

deVenoge
Posted - 2008.08.08 09:23:00 - [35]
 

Donít attack Stampede for his early set up. Back in 2003 armour tanking didnít exist as an option and rails had far better tracking than they do now.

My set up in those early days was 5 X 150s, shield, mwd + ab, 4 mags stabs and something to make it all fit (co-pro I think). I used to chain rats in 0.3-0.4 space for hours on end and needed a corpmate to clean up the cans for me while I stayed at spawning distance.

Euriti
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.08.08 10:04:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Merin Ryskin
solo PvP in a T1 cruiser is a waste of time.


Stopped reading right there.

vanBuskirk
Caldari
Posted - 2008.08.09 14:50:00 - [37]
 

A couple of points here that might be worth making:

I am assuming that you expect this ship to get blown up, and therefore that it might be a good idea to minimise expense. Heavy ion tech I have lower fitting requirements than t2, and the low-end named ones are actually cheaper than tech 1 stock in a lot of places. The grid and CPU you save might be useful for something else.

Secondly, everyone here seems to be mentioning caldari navy ammo. It's worth mentioning that Gallente Navy ammo is also available, with exactly the same stats; which is easier to get hold of might well be controlled by where you are.

Ralmus Awsine
Posted - 2008.08.12 13:14:00 - [38]
 

How are people able to fit 5 heavy ions? I can't seem to get more than 4 on before my powergrid is all used up if I put an armor repper on it.

Wil Smithx
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2008.08.12 13:32:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Ralmus Awsine
How are people able to fit 5 heavy ions? I can't seem to get more than 4 on before my powergrid is all used up if I put an armor repper on it.


Engineering: 5% increase to powergrid per level
Advanced Weapon Upgrades: 2% reduction of turret and launcher powergrid usage per level

But the rax is always tight on grid. Specially for the people who use it most (those with low skill points).

Spectre3353
Gallente
Heavy Risk...
Posted - 2008.08.12 14:37:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Ignore the people who tell you to put a plate on a T1 cruiser. With the pathetic resists, limited number of slots, and T1 base resists of a T1 Cruiser, the difference between base HP and a "tank" setup is essentially nothing. A plate will just let you die in 10 seconds instead of 5 seconds against anything other than a ratting Caracal. Meanwhile, you give up the one thing the Thorax is halfway decent at: doing huge amounts of dps to a target.

So in short: fit full gank, and just kill the target before it can even get a lock on you.


Smokey da crack much? The 1600mm Plate/Damage Control/Medium Repper/2x EANM Thorax fit makes it tank well enough to sit on gates and tank the guns while you pop haulers, frigs or even other T1 cruisers. It is a HUGE boost in the tank. Maybe you're just used to fighting larger ships or larger groups where once you are primaried it doesn't matter how big your tank is but a plated Thorax can take quite a bit of punishment compared to a gank fit one.

Munio Veritas
Black Legion Command
Black Legion.
Posted - 2008.08.13 05:30:00 - [41]
 

So, even though I'm new, I've been playing around with EFT, and this setup should fit.

Highs
-------
Heavy Electron Blaster II x 5 w/ CN Antimatter M

Med
-------
Faint Epsilon Warp Prohibitor I
X5 Prototype I Engine Enevator
10MN Digital Booster Rockets

Low
-------
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II x 2
1600mm Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Reactor Control Unit II x 2

Hammerhead II x 5

I realize that the setup might be slighly gimped by the need for two Reactor Control Unit II's, but the Effective HP is at least 21k, which is nearly on par with a light blaster, 1600mm plate, damage control set up, but with nearly 80 more DPS, at least with my skills.

Inertial
Did I just do that
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2008.08.13 07:06:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Spectre3353
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Ignore the people who tell you to put a plate on a T1 cruiser. With the pathetic resists, limited number of slots, and T1 base resists of a T1 Cruiser, the difference between base HP and a "tank" setup is essentially nothing. A plate will just let you die in 10 seconds instead of 5 seconds against anything other than a ratting Caracal. Meanwhile, you give up the one thing the Thorax is halfway decent at: doing huge amounts of dps to a target.

So in short: fit full gank, and just kill the target before it can even get a lock on you.


Smokey da crack much? The 1600mm Plate/Damage Control/Medium Repper/2x EANM Thorax fit makes it tank well enough to sit on gates and tank the guns while you pop haulers, frigs or even other T1 cruisers. It is a HUGE boost in the tank. Maybe you're just used to fighting larger ships or larger groups where once you are primaried it doesn't matter how big your tank is but a plated Thorax can take quite a bit of punishment compared to a gank fit one.


There is only 1 way to fit a Thorax tough, and that is not it.

Highs: 5 Medium Blasters II

Mediums: Microwarp Drive, Warp Distruptor, Web

Lows: 800mm Rolled Tungsten, Damage Control II, 3 Magnetic Field Stabilisers

Drone Bay: 5 ECM 600 drones

I do 300-350 DPS with this setup, but I can't use T2 guns, if I ever train for T2 Medium Blasters, I am looking at 400+ DPS from the guns.

Also, hint, the +5% medium blaster implant is only 1-2 million isk, buy it if you intend to use blasters.

Arcon Telf
Gallente
N0 APOLOGY
Controlled Chaos
Posted - 2008.08.13 07:10:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Inertial
Originally by: Spectre3353
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Ignore the people who tell you to put a plate on a T1 cruiser. With the pathetic resists, limited number of slots, and T1 base resists of a T1 Cruiser, the difference between base HP and a "tank" setup is essentially nothing. A plate will just let you die in 10 seconds instead of 5 seconds against anything other than a ratting Caracal. Meanwhile, you give up the one thing the Thorax is halfway decent at: doing huge amounts of dps to a target.

So in short: fit full gank, and just kill the target before it can even get a lock on you.


Smokey da crack much? The 1600mm Plate/Damage Control/Medium Repper/2x EANM Thorax fit makes it tank well enough to sit on gates and tank the guns while you pop haulers, frigs or even other T1 cruisers. It is a HUGE boost in the tank. Maybe you're just used to fighting larger ships or larger groups where once you are primaried it doesn't matter how big your tank is but a plated Thorax can take quite a bit of punishment compared to a gank fit one.


There is only 1 way to fit a Thorax tough, and that is not it.

Highs: 5 Medium Blasters II

Mediums: Microwarp Drive, Warp Distruptor, Web

Lows: 800mm Rolled Tungsten, Damage Control II, 3 Magnetic Field Stabilisers

Drone Bay: 5 ECM 600 drones

I do 300-350 DPS with this setup, but I can't use T2 guns, if I ever train for T2 Medium Blasters, I am looking at 400+ DPS from the guns.

Also, hint, the +5% medium blaster implant is only 1-2 million isk, buy it if you intend to use blasters.


/thread

UberNero
Gallente
The Python Cartel.
Posted - 2008.08.13 19:45:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Inertial


There is only 1 way to fit a Thorax tough, and that is not it.

Highs: 5 Medium Blasters II

Mediums: Microwarp Drive, Warp Distruptor, Web

Lows: 800mm Rolled Tungsten, Damage Control II, 3 Magnetic Field Stabilisers

Drone Bay: 5 ECM 600 drones

I do 300-350 DPS with this setup, but I can't use T2 guns, if I ever train for T2 Medium Blasters, I am looking at 400+ DPS from the guns.

Also, hint, the +5% medium blaster implant is only 1-2 million isk, buy it if you intend to use blasters.




Using the exact same set up, cept for no implant and some t1 named instead of t2 equipent, and works great.
video of it in action

Arcon Telf
Gallente
N0 APOLOGY
Controlled Chaos
Posted - 2008.08.13 19:58:00 - [45]
 

With highly developed skills this setup melts all other T1 cruisers, it's a ton of fun. I get over 400 DPS from guns alone, and ECM drones are a nice addition to the buffer tank. Twisted Evil

Jack Olev
Gallente
Roman Investment Group
Posted - 2008.08.28 12:44:00 - [46]
 

My SetUp, Gank No Tank

Thorax

Highs:
5 x ion blasters

Mids:
1x MWD
1X Warp Scrambler
1x Web

Lows:
3x Magnetic Field Stabilizer
1x 400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten
1x Damage Control


This is my support Thorax as part of a gang. No repair system. The Damage Control is there to give you a few seconds to live. Dont get targeted in this. But it can throw out some major DPS.

I love Flying it.Very Happy

The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
Posted - 2008.08.28 14:47:00 - [47]
 

My solo Thorax:

5x Med Electron II
Web, Disruptor II, MWD
MAR II, DCU II, 800mm RT, 2x MFS II

Anti Explosive Pump

Works preaty good, about 600 DPS with my Imps and Skills(using Valkyre II).
I know many people will say donīt use a Rep but it works quite fine, with overheat you will get at least 50% of the HP diffrence back in a standard fight(about 30 Seconds) to a 1600mm Setup without loosing the Speed and agility. Also you donīt have to refit any time to rep and you can do travel with GCC(mostly quick rerepping while warping, caps you out for long jurnys but 2-3 Jumps are not a problem). Cool

Btw, that are all only standart Fittings here, I know someone that flyes a 30k Armor Thorax out there for creating funny KMs, just to give a Idea what is possible(ofc a bit ISK inefficent in the end). Laughing

Spectre3353
Gallente
Heavy Risk...
Posted - 2008.08.28 15:15:00 - [48]
 

Who the hell bumped this thread again? Inertial you're a dummy.

Best Thorax setup ever:

Highs:
5x Light Neutron Blaster II w/ Faction Antimatter

Mids:
1x Any 10MN MWD
1x Any Web
1x Any Scram

Lows:
1x 1600mm Tungsten Plate
1x Damage Control II
2x EANM (or hardeners if you know what you're going to be fighting)
1x Medium Armor Repairer

Drones:
5x Hammerhead II's or 5x Vespa-600's

Need to tank gate guns long enough to gank a frig or hauler or another cruiser at a gate? No problem! Need to outlast virtually any other T1 cruisers in a fight? No problem! Is this plated Thorax setup the most awesome setup ever? Absolutely! Anyone who disagrees is an idiot and should be drawn and quartered and then burned and then chopped up and burned again.


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