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Nicolai Malthus
Posted - 2008.06.08 01:15:00 - [1081]

Indeed. Very well done! Loved it and have watched it over and over!

Mr Ignitious
Aperture Harmonics
Posted - 2008.06.08 01:16:00 - [1082]

there are a TON of posts here, but i OWE this to you man. THIS WAS EPIC.

you are a-frickin-mazing. I would LOVE to see a whole season out of this, although there was clearly a TON of effort put in.

God. I love you.

Series of Tubes
Posted - 2008.06.08 01:29:00 - [1083]

EPIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <3<3<3

Dude, I am willing to host it on a faster server for you if you want. Please contact me in-game for more info.

the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2008.06.08 02:04:00 - [1084]

Just found this. Awesome stuff m8, simply awesome.

I look forward to the next instalment. CoolCoolCool

Callum's Hobos and Holes
Interstellar Hobos
Posted - 2008.06.08 02:18:00 - [1085]

Hopefully this should help you in your goal of a wiki tribute page =P :
I got pretty annoyed at one person as one point lol

'''Do NOT Delete'''

This is a ground breaking movie/production/machinima, what ever you want to call it. This type of thing has never been done before in eve, i mean, that in itself has got to warrant this atical being kept.

This is a fantastic piece of work put together through literally YEARS of work and has had a huge impact on the world of EvE, over a thousand posts on the eve-online forums, with over eighty five thousand views of the posts! 20000 downloads at just one mirror, and there are a total of 9 mirrors, not to mention all the torrent files that exist.

I thought wikipedia was supposed to inform and add to society? Well, to be honest, i don't see how deleting such an ..dare i say it.. EPIC movie that has obivously brought hundreds and thousands of people together..well, how exactly can you jusitfy deleting this artical when so many people have enjoyed it so much and, now this it a major case in my arguement to keep this artical, so i'll put it in bold, '''even the game developers have taken the time out to post their amazment and approval''' (see bottom of post)

There is no doudt in my mind that this movie deserves a wikipedia artical.

Ok, to counter the posts for deletion:

"Seidenstud" - "Wow. I looked at the movie a bit, and it looks pretty impressive. If it catches on outside of the world of machinima forums, it probably could get enough non-trivial coverage to warrant a wikipedia article! But until then...."

You just need to read the statistics i have included in this talk page/reply, and feel free to go and check them for yourself:
The forum sub section:
The post itself:

"Drat" - "The number of members in the game's community is not an argument for keeping this. By that logic, we'd have to make articles for every piece of World of Warcraft machinima ever made because it has 10 million players. You need to show that the film has recieved non-trivial coverage from multiple reliable, verifiable, independent sources. Forums and 99.999% of blogs are not reliable."

Well, to start off with, how can you call over a thousand posts not reliable??? i'm sorry but what you have posted here is, and to put it frank, utter rubbish in relation to this post. Fair enough, it just would not be justifiable for wiki to have an artical about every movie created, but ....over a thousand posts!.. i would be very very suprised if even a few of the movies in that big list of "machinima" ever got over a thousand posts combined within the first week of unvieling it to the public.

As for multiple sources, clear skies is featured on:
Eve Online forums:
and, while this might not be completely independant, the developers went out of their way to even put the movie in the game's news: <- I have '''never''' seen that before

The Half Life 2 forums:
The creator has been interviewed:, with several posts telling of it's awsomeness:

and i could go on and on, hell, it's even on the machinima forums:

..continued below:

Callum's Hobos and Holes
Interstellar Hobos
Posted - 2008.06.08 02:19:00 - [1086]

"Drat" - "It's artistic quality needs to have been covered by reliable, etc, etc. sources as I have said above. Your personal analysis is not sufficient (See WP:NOR). As for multiple engines, other machinima productions released years ago have done this"

Again, i disagree sir =]. As i have sead before, this kind of thing has never been seen '''in the eve universe''' before. This my friend is originality, applying an idea to a completely new spectrum, that spectrum being eve.
As for the "Your personal analysis is not sufficient" remark, doesn't that make what you have just said, and by your own words "not sufficient" or irrelovent, finally on this point, the "personal analysis" of others is exactly what makes this website so efficent, so versatile, so great. So please get down of that high horse of yours.
Ok, so that artical you linked opens with the following:
"This includes unpublished facts, arguments, speculation, and ideas; and any unpublished analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to advance a position."
I fail to see how any of this relates to this movie as it is not a "fact, argument, speculation, or an idea". It is simply a movie and by no means does it "serve to advance a position", thus making this artical irrelavent to your arguement. Please read any third party sources you post in to try and back you up in future, I'm sorry for being harsh mate, but thats how it is.

I also completely agree with "CraziFuzzy" here, his/her(sorry couldn't tell by the name =P) posts:

"The most notable aspect of this machinima is not necessarily based on the numbers of praising forum posts, but in its artistic quality, and most notably, the pioneering method of integrating multiple game engines. I can think of no other Machinima which does this, especially not to this amazing effect. This fact alone warrants the wiki"

"To what standard do you then use to judge artistic quality? I fail to see how you can determine who's opinion would be considered more 'reliable' than the movie's target audience"


"Drat" - "The opinions of critics who are well known, writing for publications with a reputation for fact checking and peer review. The opinions of random people on a forum count for nothing, as forums are not reliable sources. If you check the references section for Red vs. Blue you will see many references from reliable publications"
1. and i'm sorry to keep bringing this up but, over a thousand peoples views and opinions count for nothing? What planet are you on? Sure, MAYBE if it was 10, even 20 people and it stopped there, but this is way to many people to just disgard without a thought when they are all saying the same thing, that this movie was simply epic. I can not think of a better or bigger word that puts it so finely.
2. As for the references, this movie, or now more accuratly "Episode 1" has not had time to gain those awards or credentials. Plus, i think it is extremely unfair to be comparing something that is only just over a week old to something that has been up and running for years, no matter how great either of them are.
3. I have to be asking you this, but just exactly who do you think you are to be the judge of whose opinion is or isn't relivant, that they "count for nothing"? Your opinion is just as relevant as those "random people on a forum", i jsut can't seem to find the words to describe my annoence, putting it lightly, to how you seem to see yourself as better than other people, as more significant, as your opinions being more meaningful than others.
...ok ok, rant over

Drat, i respect you and the fact you are a very senior member of the wiki online community can only add to my respect, but comments such as "The opinions of random people on a forum count for nothing" almost destroy that respect. Wikipedia is a public Exyclopidia for the sharing of knowledge. "random people" come on this forum everyday and add to that knowledge, how can you say their opinions count for nothing.

Callum's Hobos and Holes
Interstellar Hobos
Posted - 2008.06.08 02:22:00 - [1087]

Edited by: T''aun on 08/06/2008 02:42:32
Please take a deep breath before you reply and don't try and dismiss peoples opinions as trivial next time.

I am going to have to quote "CraziFuzzy" here, as he i think has put it perfectly:
"The most notable aspect of this machinima is not necessarily based on the numbers of praising forum posts, but in its artistic quality, and most notably, the pioneering method of integrating multiple game engines. I can think of no other Machinima which does this, especially not to this amazing effect. This fact alone warrants the wiki"

plus, it must be pretty epic to spur me on to write this chunk of text =P

Developers posts:
'''CCP Dionysus:''' "very very nice.. awesome"
'''CCP Casqade:''' "Wow. This is exactly what I wanted.

Movies with story is always better than the regular flashy effects coordinated with music. I have been longing for something like this so long. Thank you so very much!

Great work! I want to buy you beer at Fanfest."
'''ISD Deckard Bishop:''' "Amazing movie!

We want more! I think I speak for everyone when I say we need another episode! I'm sure you can cope without sleep for another year or two!!!"
'''CCP Hastur:''' "oooh Very nice"
'''CCP Whisper:''' "This is making the rounds of the office at the moment...everyone who's seen it has been blown away while laughing their heads off. Very well done sir, very well done. Very Happy if you excuse me, I am off to prepare a pre-recorded message begging for help."
'''CCP Oneiromancer:''' "Pure awesomeness!

Now I need to steal a hat to tip it to you. Possibily several hundred hats.

I can only hope that we will get to see some more of your and your team's amazing work in the future and if you come to the FanFest this year the entire QA department will drown you in beer and cookies."
'''CCP Hunter.:''' "L O V E D I T ! ! ! !"
'''CCP Whisper:''' "Actually if you go by the backstory there are numerous ships still piloted the "traditional" way as illustrated in this movie. Pod pilots are the elite of the EVE universe and better able to control their ships, but I would assume that at any given point and time there are more ships being flown the normal way than through pod technology. But that's me descending into deep RP again which leads to me wanting to have more NPC traffic actually warping in and out rather than just appearing in space like god's own film splice special effect.

Couple of us were talking about this movie in the pub this evening...every one of us already has a favourite line from this video. It got quoted and laughed about a lot, so again: Job well done."
'''CCP Greyscale (a very senior/important dev member):''' "I laughed so hard my top wingy bit fell off.

You sir are a god among men and I salute you.

'''CCP Navigator:''' "John Rourke,

Please take a bow and bask in the glory of being an EVE Online God.

That video was nothing short of brilliant.


and many many more, i will take the time tomorrow to post them you for you.

i'm sorry, but no matter how much you argue, but THESE people you cannot ignore of say that they are "random people" and "their opinion counts for nothing" , they make the game!!!

The views and opinions expressed here are by no means those of of the "Clear Skies" production team or those of the eve online comminity, including developers.
They are the sole opinions of a fan wanting to see a great peace of work duely recognised


Thats it i swear! Razz

We'll see, but i definitely think you should get that page, that thank you "CraziFuzzy", i couldn't have put it better myself, though i did try LaughingRazz

Edit: if anyone needs anything removed, i.e. CCP dev teams' quotes, then please say.

The Scope
Posted - 2008.06.08 03:17:00 - [1088]

Edited by: Xparky on 08/06/2008 03:31:40
The opinions of critics who are well known, writing for publications with a reputation for fact checking and peer review. The opinions of random people on a forum count for nothing, as forums are not reliable sources. If you check the references section for Red vs. Blue you will see many references from reliable publications.--Drat (Talk) 13:27, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

The guy has a point .... If there was a wikipedia article for every WoW machinima ever made they'd run out of space Razz

edit:maybe the guys at EON can help with this

Ornery Cantankerous Curmudgeons
Posted - 2008.06.08 04:07:00 - [1089]

Edited by: Fastercart on 08/06/2008 04:17:01
Originally by: Xparky
Edited by: Xparky on 08/06/2008 03:31:40
The guy has a point .... If there was a wikipedia article for every WoW machinima ever made they'd run out of space Razz

edit:maybe the guys at EON can help with this

Yeah, I also see their point. But, besides EON (not many outside of Eve have heard of the magazine), I can't think of a notable entity that would post an article about this film. And, despite dev comments, not many people have heard of CCP and may not know how much weight theirs, ISDs', and GMs' carry. If CS could get the notice of gamespot or some other such entity, then maybe it would justify a wiki.

Any other ideas? Outside of showing a CS trailer as a commercial during Battlestar Galactica.

P.S. I meant no insult to anyone mentioned in this post. We're all fans here, but we're preaching to the choir. We have to remember that those outside of Eve will just say, "So what?"

Edit: If Clear Skies had it's own website that may help. How's that coming, JR?
Edit #2: Their Arguments_to_avoid_in_deletion_discussions page is really long. ):

Good Rock Materials
Posted - 2008.06.08 08:13:00 - [1090]

artistic quality and fame discussions aside, there is still the matter of the pioneering role this movie takes in the integration of two completely different game engines. DRAT mentioned that a lot of early machinima films did this, but, he submitted no examples. None of the movies on the 'List of Machinima films' OTHER THAN clear skies use multiple game engines integrated together.

Understand though, the type of mentality one must have to decide to be a wikipedia article deleting guru, is one that will not reason, he is just not going to change his mind.

Dash Ripcock
Posted - 2008.06.08 09:05:00 - [1091]

There are machinima festivals and competitions out there, and even if the film doesn't win - giving it exposure to the panels of judges there is enough to create interest in the franchise. Also, mentioning it on forums for gaming magazines such as PC Gamer UK is a good way to increase its publicity should the magazine print an article on it (which the aforementioned publication has done before for one of the MC's videos).

Whilst the man from the Wiki sounds tough, he is perfectly within his rights. What he wants is proof that there is interest for this outside of the EVE gaming fraternity. Of course we're going to love it. This is no slight on Clear Skies, but there are a lot of pretty terrible movies on this forum that receive widespread adulation simply because they're about EVE. Cinematically they are worthless.

So get out there and spread the word if you want to see this baby soar.

ThornsSon Hammer
Posted - 2008.06.08 10:50:00 - [1092]

OMG I want CCP to Employ that guy... thats kind of unbelievable!!!
with the correct development tools he will be able to make us a weekly or monthly series of that....

come on eve-community, lets ransom CCP to do so YARRRR!!

Thank u for your 1500hrs Capt`n, thanks a lot.

Posted - 2008.06.08 11:13:00 - [1093]

I would pay for this stuff Surprised

Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.06.08 11:32:00 - [1094]

I've posted previously in this thread to say how much I love this vid. But have to add this nugget of pure win: my husband--who is not a gamer and only knows Eve through my (rather constant) chatter about it and a few "honey look at this!!!" screen demos--sat mesmerized for the entire thing, laughing at the funny bits and being awed by the beauty of Eve that he apparently hasn't noticed before :) So thanks for accomplishing the damn near impossible, John Rourke! If he decides to start playing Eve, I might owe you big time LOL!

The Scope
Posted - 2008.06.08 11:56:00 - [1095]

Edited by: Freezehunter on 08/06/2008 11:58:43
BEST eve online movie i've ever seen...

IF CCP will make something like this in ambulation, so that you can walk in ships 2 not only in stations, Eve online will be the best MMO ever and will outclass WoW (it already has) and Age of Conan!

Very nice work man!


Krasnij Okjabre
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2008.06.08 12:15:00 - [1096]

Absolutely outstanding work!!

Sat her slack-jawed for the last 40 minutes or so... we demand moar!!!

You sir, have won Eve, hands down.


Syrus Speculations
Posted - 2008.06.08 14:17:00 - [1097]

That was fan-****ing-tastic.

Please make more. I'm available for voice-acting if you'd value some Mancunian tones :P

Posted - 2008.06.08 16:12:00 - [1098]

That was really cool dude, 2 years is a long time, do we have to wait till 2010 till episode 2? Glad to see the half-life 2 engine still kickin ass. Well done.

Maybe CCP will employ you for this.

Kash Ka
House of Ka
Posted - 2008.06.08 17:48:00 - [1099]

Dude thats awesome!

Kash Ka
House of Ka
Posted - 2008.06.08 17:48:00 - [1100]

Edited by: Kash Ka on 08/06/2008 17:48:53
um woops double post sorry pls delete this one Embarassed

Posted - 2008.06.08 20:38:00 - [1101]

Absolutely amazing. I admire how much effort you've put into this project, I only hope you get out of it what you put in.

The Knights Templar
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2008.06.08 21:59:00 - [1102]

Thats Just amazing , hope there is more like this GJVery Happy

Frontier Explorer's League
Posted - 2008.06.08 23:41:00 - [1103]

You sir are now the proud owner of the internet and EVE, congratulations! no but seriusly, EPIC WIN!!!! I don't know how to explain how epic this is, but it is undeniably epic! hell even the devs agree and we all know what it takes to get them to look at anything besides those spaghetti models of jovian ships :)

Sirius Problem
Darkness Inc.
Posted - 2008.06.09 01:03:00 - [1104]

What can I say that hasn't been already? I'll just repeat.

Awesome work. Loved it.Very Happy

Amy Homolak
Twilight Federation
Posted - 2008.06.09 02:31:00 - [1105]

I agree, very well done, CCP should hire you and do regular episodes. It's something else they could put on eve TV and I would pay to see it.

Violet Vortex
Posted - 2008.06.09 03:47:00 - [1106]

All said and u got the Devs comments. Now i have to say that CCP must pay to have this
stuff in monthly basis, not me, and then CCP feeds me (eve community)as it works vice versa. So NO more payments pls! :)

Obviously CCP found a valueable asset from community and now CCP can spend their isk wisely, that means CCP hire John Rourke NOW! And give us episodes, ah and make a infinite inusrance scheme policy for J.R. and his crew, they need some love. (byu them better ship, tempest sux) hehehehe

Nero Sirius
Posted - 2008.06.09 03:50:00 - [1107]

...........amazing..i watched it 5 times in a row

Coreward Pan-Galactic
Holy Empire of The Unshaven
Posted - 2008.06.09 03:56:00 - [1108]

Truly groundbreaking. As an avid fan of eve-fan-films, I can honestly, and without hesitation, put my voice firmly in the camp that says "this has NOT been done before." Not that it matters. Even if it HAD been done before, you would have left all of the competition in the dust. As an instant fan of your work, I sincerely hope you (and the whole team that did this) do more in the future. Pure artwork. Pure class.

The only thing I can say I missed out of the whole thing was the entire "pod experience". However, people floating in goo does not exactly make for very riveting character interaction. So, honestly, I don't know how you COULD have included that part of Eve without taking the crewmembers into some form of virtual reality interface when they "plugged into" their pods. Unless you were going for the fact that the people we met were all part of the ship's "biomass" component and we never actually MET the podpilot. Was that what you were going for? Or, did I just provide you with an interesting angle for a sequel? ;)

At any rate, very, VERY, well done! All my best, and I do hope to see more in the future.


Very Happy

Wartime Piratical Industries
Posted - 2008.06.09 04:52:00 - [1109]

After watching it twice, I have to add my compliments to this long list! You made the adventure come alive -- thank you!

Bob Niac
freelancers inc
Imperial 0rder
Posted - 2008.06.09 05:51:00 - [1110]

awesome .. great job!

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