open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked Enough with all the NANO figs?
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6

Author Topic

Nightsheir
Posted - 2008.05.28 17:02:00 - [121]
 

A very good tanked supported capital ship can repair 35000 shield per second . But a well fit nano , even without officer items . Can tank more than that.

Because simply, it has the ability to IGNORE the damage. And you can use this ability to 95% of the ships you can encounter in eve.

Except the freaked out pilots that completely fit their ships anti nano , which cannot do anything else.

While nano ships are.
-Effective scouts
-Escape artists
-They can tank more than a capital ship can 95% of the time.
-Combined with firepower to break most ships tank.
-And while it can escape, target cannot . Thanks to 28km scramblers.


Now why should one try regular slugfest ships what 95% of eve used to be, instead of having all the bonuses above with one simple set of tools . Speed + agility. All you need to do is skipping wannabe nanoship hunters/counters. And own the rest 95% , once you are full of joy, dont forget to drop into forum and talk about how balanced this new sweet unique setup you came up with !

Euriti
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.05.28 17:07:00 - [122]
 

Edited by: Euriti on 28/05/2008 17:07:44
Originally by: Nightsheir

-They can tank more than a capital ship can 95% of the time.



A vagabond can hit a target with 300 sig res with his 220s while going 3-4km/s, but a Hurricane now SUDDNELY can't hit a vagabond with a sig radius of 1100.

MAGIC I TELL YOU!

MAGIC!

Just to let you know, at 3000m/s (Vagabond ofcourse), a megathron does 250-300 DPS to a nano ship (the one going 3000m/s), with just the guns, while using null ammo.

You don't have a ****ing clue, now don't speak.

Euriti
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.05.28 17:16:00 - [123]
 

Originally by: TZeer

For f**k sake, the first thing people did when the new ships for FW came out was "how well can it nano?"

People neglect the actual bonus on ships and go: "yippy yey!! plenty lowslots, screw the ship bonus, this is going nano!"


The rest of your post says: PEOPLE NEED TO PLAY LIKE I WANT THEM TO

This quoted part says you don't know what you're talking about.

Why do people want to nano them?

1) Their attributes are made for it. I mean, take the scythe, 270m/s top speed and 8.500.000 mass, that means it gets nearly double effect from MWD, it goes at near nano speeds without any speed mods

2) Why would you want to take a 70-100mill ship to a hack and slash where you can't escape if things get bad? You don't unless you have lots of money.

Prez21
Alpha Strike.
Posted - 2008.05.28 17:16:00 - [124]
 

Originally by: Nightsheir
A very good tanked supported capital ship can repair 35000 shield per second . But a well fit nano , even without officer items . Can tank more than that.

Because simply, it has the ability to IGNORE the damage. And you can use this ability to 95% of the ships you can encounter in eve.

Except the freaked out pilots that completely fit their ships anti nano , which cannot do anything else.

While nano ships are.
-Effective scouts
-Escape artists
-They can tank more than a capital ship can 95% of the time.
-Combined with firepower to break most ships tank.
-And while it can escape, target cannot . Thanks to 28km scramblers.


Now why should one try regular slugfest ships what 95% of eve used to be, instead of having all the bonuses above with one simple set of tools . Speed + agility. All you need to do is skipping wannabe nanoship hunters/counters. And own the rest 95% , once you are full of joy, dont forget to drop into forum and talk about how balanced this new sweet unique setup you came up with !



Another idiot who has no clue at all, please stop posting your utter crap .

Satura
WEPRA CORP
Posted - 2008.05.28 17:29:00 - [125]
 

Originally by: Voltain
Hmmm, whining about nanos it's pretty much a moot point. The reality is you are not able to cope with organised gangs.

If you are being pwnd in the face by 40 man nano gangs and nanos get smacked with the nerf bat, that 40 man gang adapts and pwns you with something else. You'll all whine about whatever tactic evolves because it's easier than doing something about it.

These things can work though:

Neuts.
Webs.
ECM.
TD's.
SCOUTING.
TACTICS.
TEAM WORK.







win

RuriHoshino
Minmatar
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2008.05.28 17:53:00 - [126]
 

Originally by: VillagePeople
Don't you get it? You shouldn't have to go to such extreme lengths to counter such common ships...


I love how the "extreme lengths" this numpty cites include things like BRAINCELLS and TEAMWORK.

Flying nano in a laggy environment against blobs 4-5 times your own gang's size is difficult, and the only reason you think it's easy is because you've never done it yourself. It is expensive, far more so than the counters which include every races recon cruiser, not just the Matari's. It is frustrating, because there are plenty of targets you cannot engage due to lack of dps.

In an age where large alliances control vast territories, and are willing to drop damned Carriers on a small pack of T1 cruisers, nano is the only option smaller forces have if they want to survive such engagements. There is only one thing that nano's are good at - running away. If you honestly think that being able to run away when you're outnumbered and outgunned is something that needs to be removed from the game, then you have no common sense and no decency at all.

Get. Out.

Zurrar
Posted - 2008.05.28 17:55:00 - [127]
 

Originally by: Nikita Alterana
nano is not the best tank. Its a decent tank, but you can't nano everything and expect to win, just like you can't armor tank a raven.
The only problem with Nano's are that people are too lazy to use the counters CCP has put in. They refuse to adapt so they die.


too lazy?

it would take me *opens eve-mon* 89 days to fly, and properly fit a rapier. in the same amount of time, i could be flying marauders. ishtar is NOT supposed to go 5500m/s. its not all slug and tank, you have to learn the abilities of your ship and use those. Making something go ~6km/s forever kinda ruins the balance of the game. I fly scorps/blackbirds/griffens and am the only one in my alliance that fits them properly. Even scorps have limits, as numbers play a huge role. you can perma jam a vaga, but you wont kill it... nano pilots/gangs look for easy kills.

Zurrar
Posted - 2008.05.28 17:57:00 - [128]
 

Edited by: Zurrar on 28/05/2008 17:58:30
Originally by: Nightsheir
A very good tanked supported capital ship can repair 35000 shield per second . But a well fit nano , even without officer items . Can tank more than that.

Because simply, it has the ability to IGNORE the damage. And you can use this ability to 95% of the ships you can encounter in eve.

Except the freaked out pilots that completely fit their ships anti nano , which cannot do anything else.

While nano ships are.
-Effective scouts
-Escape artists
-They can tank more than a capital ship can 95% of the time.
-Combined with firepower to break most ships tank.
-And while it can escape, target cannot . Thanks to 28km scramblers.


Now why should one try regular slugfest ships what 95% of eve used to be, instead of having all the bonuses above with one simple set of tools . Speed + agility. All you need to do is skipping wannabe nanoship hunters/counters. And own the rest 95% , once you are full of joy, dont forget to drop into forum and talk about how balanced this new sweet unique setup you came up with !



my carrier tanks more than that...


2008.05.24 21:23:00

Victim: Zurrar
Corp: Epiphyte Mining and Exploration
Alliance: Combined Planetary Union
Faction: NONE
Destroyed: Chimera
System: FD-MLJ
Security: 0.0
Damage Taken: 1214029

Involved parties:

Name: Spiegelhauer (laid the final blow)
Security: 0.9
Corp: FinFleet
Alliance: Band of Brothers
Faction: NONE
Ship: Nyx
Weapon: Templar
Damage Done: 374078

Name: MasterJedi
Security: -7.4
Corp: Reikoku
Alliance: Band of Brothers
Faction: NONE
Ship: Nyx
Weapon: Einherji
Damage Done: 318492

Name: MECHcore
Security: 5.0
Corp: Celestial Apocalypse
Alliance: Insurgency
Faction: NONE
Ship: Unknown
Weapon: Citadel Torpedo Launcher I
Damage Done: 277248

Name: Gulnar
Security: 0.6
Corp: SISI Testing Conglomerate
Alliance: NONE
Faction: NONE
Ship: Nyx
Weapon: Einherji
Damage Done: 238575

Name: HuskyBear
Security: -2.0
Corp: Deep Core Mining Inc.
Alliance: NONE
Faction: NONE
Ship: Unknown
Weapon: Templar
Damage Done: 5636

Name: Cosmo Raata
Security: -0.8
Corp: Black Nova Corp
Alliance: Band of Brothers
Faction: NONE
Ship: Archon
Weapon: Warp Disruptor II
Damage Done: 0

Name: EntroX
Security: -0.3
Corp: Reikoku
Alliance: Band of Brothers
Faction: NONE
Ship: Falcon
Weapon: ECM - Ion Field Projector II
Damage Done: 0

Name: Eug316
Security: -1.1
Corp: Scoopex
Alliance: The Volition Cult
Faction: NONE
Ship: Unknown
Weapon: Templar
Damage Done: 0

Name: Darius Amir
Security: -1.2
Corp: Arclight Support Services
Alliance: NONE
Faction: Gallente Federation
Ship: Unknown
Weapon: Warp Disruption Field Generator I
Damage Done: 0

Destroyed items:

DubanFP
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.05.28 18:07:00 - [129]
 

Edited by: DubanFP on 28/05/2008 18:12:43
Originally by: Zurrar
it would take me *opens eve-mon* 89 days to fly, and properly fit a rapier. .

You seem to forget that it would take a nano pilot just as long to fly a good nanoship. Why should your 5 mil SP ship that costs 30 million isk, most of which you trained for PVE, be able to vaporize a ship that costs 300 mil and requires a couple months of specialized training. It's actually easier to fight off that 300 mil nano ship then it would be if he put the same amount of isk into a damage dealing ship. You're getting your ass kicked by a downright better ship, not faulty game mechanics.

The main difference is that nanoship has the option to run when you blob it with 50 people. People nano ships because it's the only good protection from blobs for an expensive investment. Not because it's super kill everything pwn.

Saddik
Amarr
Posted - 2008.05.28 18:11:00 - [130]
 

You heard it here first, folks. Nanoships never die. There is absolutely no way to catch them. Check the killboards. All the nanoship deaths are clearly forged by communists who hate truth.

Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.28 18:17:00 - [131]
 

The matter is very simple- nanos are only really properly countered by other nanos. Its always been the problem, and it always will be the problem, until the day of the "nerf".


Nanos beat close range turret setups, by having a good close-orbit transversal. And if the going gets tough, they can (very easily) put some distance between them and the target.

Nanos beat missiles, as missiles can be 100% tanked by a high enough speed.

Nanos beat snipers, as they can simply close the distance down (100km can be covered by a nano ship in about 20 seconds, which isn't far off the amount of time it'll take a BS to target lock).

Nanos "beat" snipers from multiple points (say, 2 groups 60km apart) by being plenty agile enough to simply warp away, and re-engage at their leisure (and when we're talking war-fighting, having an entire enemy fleet loose in your space and unkillable is a big problem, whether you "hold the field" at a given gate or not).


The only thing that can get a decent kill on a nano ship is...well, something fast enough to keep up. Which would be another nano ship.

Coming from a 0.0 coalition that long since discovered the effectiveness of nano gangs and now happily blitzes their way around in them regularly, I can tell you that they certainly are very very good.



The fact is that, when confronted with a traditional ship setup, there are hundreds of different loadouts and tactics that can be used to give a good fight and a potential kill. With nanos, the only real option (unless you're a fan of chasing people around for hours and hoping the enemy pilots just screw up somehow) is to bring your own nanos.

Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.28 18:28:00 - [132]
 

Originally by: DubanFP
People nano ships because it's the only good protection from blobs for an expensive investment.

I think an issue is that, when it comes to investing in survivability, nano is the only way to go. Not in shield tanking, not in armor tanking...if you want survivability, you invest in speed. Period.

One of the biggest pro-nano arguments is "well these ships cost zomg this much." So do faction tanks...I think a logical "balance" question would certainly be "why is 300-500mil isk invested in speed inherently superior to 300-500mil isk invested in tank?"

The other balance issue is one I've brought up before in the other nanowhine threads: speed homogonizes fleets. Nanofleets don't generally need specialized tanks, they don't generally need specialized ecm support, they don't generally need specialized tackler support, etc...because a nanofleet inherently embodies all of those qualities.

Sure, they can be killed. Interestingly enough, though, the most effective means involve other nanoships (though perhaps mixed with non-nano as well.) Without nano vessels of your own, your nanotarget still has far too easy of a bailout option.

As has been mentioned, though, this ain't the first discussion about this. I don't think many folks are likely to change their minds one way or another. As I understand it, stacking penalties are pending for various speed mods...so until then the best bet for folks is to make sure they're packing heavy neuts, investing equivalent isk into webs as their targets do into polycarbs, and always have a battlecruiser or command ship with an interdiction maneuvers link in fleet Cool

Blackhorizon
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.05.28 18:45:00 - [133]
 

The only "fast" ships in the game should be ships with speed bonuses such as vagabonds, interceptors and certain frigates. Period.

I think nanoships are quite game ruining, and I'm one of those people who pilots them regularly. They not only blur ship classes, but the entire tanking/damage system.

The only solution is to nerf them, or rebalance all weapon systems in eve. Option one is easier and more preferable.





Exuscon
Amarr
Frontier Explorations Inc.
Black Core Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.28 19:04:00 - [134]
 

I am gonna file a petition because I can't get my harbinger to do 10k.

Ariel Dawn
Posted - 2008.05.28 19:05:00 - [135]
 

Edited by: Ariel Dawn on 28/05/2008 19:05:57
Nano-Ships are only good at killing other nano-ships, people with terrible fittings, and unprepared gangs. Drone-based ships become useless once all their drones are dead. Vagabonds need to slow down and have pathetic DPS that can be tanked by practically any ship. Only Nano-Sacs can fly at top speed and dish out high damage without worry.

An interceptor can do the same job of holding a point on someone and go far faster for far cheaper ISK-wise.

Neut, overload MWD/Web, teamwork vs nano-ships and enjoy your expensive faction loot.

Furthermore, removing nano/speed from the game would turn the vast majority of engagements into a F1,F2,F3.. slugmatch; winner being decided by whoever brought more Falcons.

Exuscon
Amarr
Frontier Explorations Inc.
Black Core Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.28 19:07:00 - [136]
 

Originally by: Ariel Dawn
Nano-Ships are only good at killing other nano-ships.



Heh?

Euriti
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.05.28 19:14:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: Exuscon
Originally by: Ariel Dawn
Nano-Ships are only good at killing other nano-ships.



Heh?


A BS outtanks a nano ship

A BC should in most cases die to a HAC as HAC requires more training than BC and a larger investment.

A cruiser should just die.

In your logic, which ships should be superior to HACs?

Sir Hades
Caldari
Stimulus
Posted - 2008.05.28 19:18:00 - [138]
 

All I can say was once I thought of nano ships as game breaking and lame. Then I actually FLEW a nano ship and realized that this is NOT an "I win" button and I can die quite easily. Webs hurt. Neuts hurt. Cerbs REALLY hurt. Jamming hurts. Sensor damps hurt. Inties hurt. Coming in at something at the wrong angle hurts.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2008.05.28 19:22:00 - [139]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 28/05/2008 19:24:22
Bah! My nanobadger > you. So there.

…or is that "Nadger"? Razz

Princess Jodi
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.28 20:09:00 - [140]
 

Nanoffgs are small-scale warfare ships only. You can't hold space with them. Witness the complete disintegration of Insurgency space: They tried to fight back with fleets of nanoships, only to find out that they couldn't take the damage being thrown at them by a real fleet.


masternerdguy
Gallente
Meerkat Maner
Posted - 2008.05.28 20:27:00 - [141]
 

speed tanks are awesome

Satura
WEPRA CORP
Posted - 2008.05.28 20:37:00 - [142]
 

Killed a vaga with a mega, killed a vaga with a cane, killed a torp raven with a phoon, lost a mega to a curse, lost a vaga to a brutix, lost a phoon to...a roid...
Win or loose, is fun.

Zurrar
Posted - 2008.05.28 23:45:00 - [143]
 

Originally by: DubanFP
Edited by: DubanFP on 28/05/2008 18:12:43
Originally by: Zurrar
it would take me *opens eve-mon* 89 days to fly, and properly fit a rapier. .

You seem to forget that it would take a nano pilot just as long to fly a good nanoship. Why should your 5 mil SP ship that costs 30 million isk, most of which you trained for PVE, be able to vaporize a ship that costs 300 mil and requires a couple months of specialized training. It's actually easier to fight off that 300 mil nano ship then it would be if he put the same amount of isk into a damage dealing ship. You're getting your ass kicked by a downright better ship, not faulty game mechanics.

The main difference is that nanoship has the option to run when you blob it with 50 people. People nano ships because it's the only good protection from blobs for an expensive investment. Not because it's super kill everything pwn.


i dont have 5m sp, FAR from it. I have maybe 300k sp in non pvp skills, 500kish in learning. the rest are skills for cap and shields, drones. i am a bread capital pilot, skilled for capital right outa the clone vat. ONCE again you sterio type those of us who wish to see nano fleets reduced to what they should be.

Zurrar
Posted - 2008.05.28 23:47:00 - [144]
 

Originally by: Ariel Dawn
Edited by: Ariel Dawn on 28/05/2008 19:05:57
Nano-Ships are only good at killing other nano-ships, people with terrible fittings, and unprepared gangs. Drone-based ships become useless once all their drones are dead. Vagabonds need to slow down and have pathetic DPS that can be tanked by practically any ship. Only Nano-Sacs can fly at top speed and dish out high damage without worry.

An interceptor can do the same job of holding a point on someone and go far faster for far cheaper ISK-wise.

Neut, overload MWD/Web, teamwork vs nano-ships and enjoy your expensive faction loot.

Furthermore, removing nano/speed from the game would turn the vast majority of engagements into a F1,F2,F3.. slugmatch; winner being decided by whoever brought more Falcons.


not really, ive seen a vaga bump a ship off gate/station, away from the fleet and they would swarm it and kill it before anyone can react.

Pr1ncess Alia
Posted - 2008.05.28 23:55:00 - [145]
 

Originally by: Zurrar

not really, ive seen a vaga bump a ship off gate/station, away from the fleet and they would swarm it and kill it before anyone can react.


Originally by: Zurrar

i dont have 5m sp, FAR from it. I have maybe 300k sp in non pvp skills, 500kish in learning. the rest are skills for cap and shields, drones. i am a bread capital pilot, skilled for capital right outa the clone vat. ONCE again you sterio type those of us who wish to see nano fleets reduced to what they should be.


u R awsome

Guillame Herschel
Gallente
NME1
Posted - 2008.05.29 00:12:00 - [146]
 

Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 29/05/2008 00:13:54
Originally by: Vaal Erit
I hate nano figs too. I have thusly chopped down my nano fig tree. It was hard but I used a nano-axe to do it.



On the following day, when they came from Bethany, he was hungry. Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to see whether perhaps he would find anything on it. When he came to it, he found nothing but leaves, for it was not the season for figs. He said to it, ‘May no one ever eat fruit from you again.’ And his disciples heard it.

Jesus is the master nano fig f&^cker. Let's see a officer webifier wither a nano fig like that.

Dirtee Girl
Rage of Inferno
Minor Threat.
Posted - 2008.05.29 00:22:00 - [147]
 

the truth about nano ships lies in this simple equation please follow this for the answer to all nano related issues


nano vaga

ship 80mio+/-
polys 55mio x 2 +/-
dom./rep. fleet 10mn mwd 100mio +/-
dom./rep. fleet overs 50mio x2 (at least) 55mio+/-
rest cost meh

implants lets say 3% speed rogue implants full set 150mio +/-
low/high grade snakes ah lets be realistic so no ...

so what roughly 540mio for a decent nano vaga
right so 540 mio thats 540,000,000.00 isks

now you the nano hater spend 540 mio on a bs+fittings+plants

can you take or drive off that nano vaga ?

if yes good for you you learned something .

if no terminate your eve accounts .

all nano threads over go take a nap .

Imperator Jora'h
Posted - 2008.05.29 00:40:00 - [148]
 

Originally by: Patch86
The only thing that can get a decent kill on a nano ship is...well, something fast enough to keep up. Which would be another nano ship.

Coming from a 0.0 coalition that long since discovered the effectiveness of nano gangs and now happily blitzes their way around in them regularly, I can tell you that they certainly are very very good.



Thankfully some here are willing to admit the obvious.

I find it funny reading the thread how many people say something to the effect of, "OMG...nanos are so easy to kill! There are, like, a thousand ways. If only you had a brain you would figure it out cuz nanos are beat by almost anything and are uber hard to fly to boot!"

Of course the reality is lots and lots and lots of people fly nanoships and they do NOT do it because they suck. If such ships were so pathetic and easy to kill then I seriously doubt anyone would fly them and even less people would complain about them.

The vast majority (not all) of the nano defenders here are self-serving rather than find a solution to an oft cited and common balance issue in EVE.

Imperator Jora'h
Posted - 2008.05.29 00:43:00 - [149]
 

Originally by: Dirtee Girl
the truth about nano ships lies in this simple equation please follow this for the answer to all nano related issues


nano vaga

ship 80mio+/-
polys 55mio x 2 +/-
dom./rep. fleet 10mn mwd 100mio +/-
dom./rep. fleet overs 50mio x2 (at least) 55mio+/-
rest cost meh

implants lets say 3% speed rogue implants full set 150mio +/-
low/high grade snakes ah lets be realistic so no ...

so what roughly 540mio for a decent nano vaga
right so 540 mio thats 540,000,000.00 isks

now you the nano hater spend 540 mio on a bs+fittings+plants

can you take or drive off that nano vaga ?

if yes good for you you learned something .

if no terminate your eve accounts .

all nano threads over go take a nap .


My Freighter costs 1 billion ISK. An Ibis can kill it solo (eventually).

So what is the point of your cost list?

Dirtee Girl
Rage of Inferno
Minor Threat.
Posted - 2008.05.29 01:02:00 - [150]
 

Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: Dirtee Girl
the truth about nano ships lies in this simple equation please follow this for the answer to all nano related issues


nano vaga

ship 80mio+/-
polys 55mio x 2 +/-
dom./rep. fleet 10mn mwd 100mio +/-
dom./rep. fleet overs 50mio x2 (at least) 55mio+/-
rest cost meh

implants lets say 3% speed rogue implants full set 150mio +/-
low/high grade snakes ah lets be realistic so no ...

so what roughly 540mio for a decent nano vaga
right so 540 mio thats 540,000,000.00 isks

now you the nano hater spend 540 mio on a >>>>>>bs+fittings+plants<<<<<<<

can you take or drive off that nano vaga ?

if yes good for you you learned something .

if no terminate your eve accounts .

all nano threads over go take a nap .


My Freighter costs 1 billion ISK. An Ibis can kill it solo (eventually).

So what is the point of your cost list?



well the point may be you need to polish up on reading skills tbh


Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only