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blankseplocked Enough with all the NANO figs?
 
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Imperator Jora'h
Posted - 2008.05.28 04:27:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Beaverid Machinist
Then wouldnt it be the original targets chance to fire? lol


Original target also has 100km range on his guns?

Beaverid Machinist
Posted - 2008.05.28 04:31:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Beaverid Machinist on 28/05/2008 04:33:01
lol, why not? If he cant track worth **** then range is all he has.

So many people want the big guns and heavy armor because they haven't realised that navigation and fleet coordination is even more important. Guns don't help when you cant use them.

Imperator Jora'h
Posted - 2008.05.28 04:37:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Beaverid Machinist
lol, why not? If he cant track worth **** then range is all he has.


Your premise was the nano ship was circling one ship and his friend figures to come in with a sniper at 100km.

So now both ships are snipers? Only a very few ships are capable snipers and it is a very specific setup.

But fine, nano just leaves...no problem. Snipers don't do enough damage to get him before that and certainly have no way to stop him.

Beaverid Machinist
Posted - 2008.05.28 04:44:00 - [34]
 

Ok, 100, 50, 30km? The point is that speed doesnt matter much at longer ranges.

If the ship leaves then wouldnt that be a victory? lol, its not like people ever die in this game. Making them leave your space is the best that anyone can do.

Pedro Snachez
Senex Legio
Get Off My Lawn
Posted - 2008.05.28 04:54:00 - [35]
 

I find the problem to be a ship that can willfully disengage from virtually any combat situation that doesn't favor it. Other than opposing nanoships and huginns, nano-fitted ships violate the one great part of Eve: non-consensual PvP. Once jumped by opposing forces with these supposed "nano-killing" devices, the pilot has to be either dumb as a post or severely outnumbered in order to go down. The risk is just not there like flying other classes.

Easy mode IMHO.

Beaverid Machinist
Posted - 2008.05.28 04:58:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Beaverid Machinist on 28/05/2008 05:05:21
I realy dont see any problem in letting someone flee. Your fighting for resources and survival unless your just looking for a kill mail.

Resources = ISK
Kill Mail = imature snots saying, "Damn, you can compensate for having a little *****"

/me giggles

Clittalious
Posted - 2008.05.28 05:02:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: ****talious on 28/05/2008 05:04:45
Edited by: ****talious on 28/05/2008 05:03:55
Originally by: Pedro Snachez
I find the problem to be a ship that can willfully disengage from virtually any combat situation that doesn't favor it. Other than opposing nanoships and huginns, nano-fitted ships violate the one great part of Eve: non-consensual PvP. Once jumped by opposing forces with these supposed "nano-killing" devices, the pilot has to be either dumb as a post or severely outnumbered in order to go down. The risk is just not there like flying other classes.

Easy mode IMHO.




Very good point.. This is the reason most fly the nano-fitted fighting ships because they (as a player) suck. They will not admit it. CCP has made nano-fitting so easy and over powered until, CCP gets their head out of their ass and do somthing about this games pvp will always be unbalanced.

Pedro Snachez
Senex Legio
Get Off My Lawn
Posted - 2008.05.28 05:05:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Beaverid Machinist
I realy dont see any problem in letting someone flee. Your fighting for resources and survival unless your just looking for a kill mail.



Some people like killmails Very Happy

I understand your point and it's valid, but my problem is that the nanoed ships retain control over the engagement and their escape that would not be allowed any other ship in the game (other than the damn falcon). The PvP is supposed to be non-consensual in Eve, but nanoed ships basically have to give you their consent for you to kill them. That's imbalanced in my opinion.

Imperator Jora'h
Posted - 2008.05.28 05:06:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Beaverid Machinist
I realy dont see any problem in letting someone flee. Your fighting for resources and survival unless your just looking for a kill mail.



Well, CCP nerfed warp stabs awhile back so I think it is safe to say CCP (and the chorus of players complaining about it) felt that people should not have an automatic get away card.

Then they added Heavy Dictors which have the infini point so NOTHING can warp away.

Except of course nano ships.

A chance to get away is one thing. A guarantee to get away every time is not cool for combat ships.

Beaverid Machinist
Posted - 2008.05.28 05:08:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Pedro Snachez
Originally by: Beaverid Machinist
I realy dont see any problem in letting someone flee. Your fighting for resources and survival unless your just looking for a kill mail.



Some people like killmails Very Happy

I understand your point and it's valid, but my problem is that the nanoed ships retain control over the engagement and their escape that would not be allowed any other ship in the game (other than the damn falcon). The PvP is supposed to be non-consensual in Eve, but nanoed ships basically have to give you their consent for you to kill them. That's imbalanced in my opinion.


The one that "controls" the fight (if you want to think that anyone could) is the one that is standing on the battlefield at the end of it all having a drink and a smoke.

LongHong Dong
Posted - 2008.05.28 05:09:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: LongHong Dong on 28/05/2008 05:10:09


CCP will do nothing about the Nanoed problem. It will make alot noob whine too much and we all know CCP caters to it's whiners.

No risk - disengage- w/ EASE nano ships are for lazy, fat and snottynosed little noobs.

Satura
WEPRA CORP
Posted - 2008.05.28 05:11:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Ecky X
Nano is current the best tank. Why not talk about it?

Wrong. Maybe was a good tank before everyone learned to fly minmatar recons. Nano ships are fun to fly, but they die to someone who is knows that he's doing. Nothing wrong with nanos.

LongHong Dong
Posted - 2008.05.28 05:13:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Satura
Originally by: Ecky X
Nano is current the best tank. Why not talk about it?

Wrong. Maybe was a good tank before everyone learned to fly minmatar recons. Nano ships are fun to fly, but they die to someone who is knows that he's doing. Nothing wrong with nanos.


LIES!

I do not want to fly Min recon.. THERE ARE FULL FLEETS OF NANOS.. I should not have to wait for 2 Doomsday weapons to deal with them.

CCP knows nothing about PVP balance!

Exuscon
Amarr
Frontier Explorations Inc.
Black Core Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.28 05:25:00 - [44]
 

I like Hyro's Idea:

For starters change the way of how overdrives, inertia stabilizers and nanofibers affect the speed. There are two ways i can think of right now...

1.
- Overdrives: Change the cargo capacity penalty to an inertia penalty. This would prevent ships from beeing agile and fast at the same time
- Inertia stabs: Chance the signature radius penalty to a speed penalty. This would prevent fast ships compensating the lack of agility.
- Nanofibers: Leave them alone, they would be a module that affects both attributes a little bit. A ship gets a little more agile and a little faster with an AB/MWD fitted.
- Improve the inertia of interceptors so it would compensate the use of two overdrive modules.
- Allow only 3 mods or rigs to be fitted at the same time that affect either of the following attributes: inertia, mass, speed

This way people would have to decide to be either very agile or fast, but not both at a time!
Interceptors would not be affected very much, cause they are agile as it is and with the inertia improvement they could fit overdrives without having to suffer from a bad inertia. Even covert ops would not suffer from that cause they still could fit overdrives to go fast as they are cloaked.

2.
- Overdrives: Change the cargo capacity penalty to an inertia penalty. Change the bonus to be a thrust bonus (AB/MWD) instead of a speed % bonus. This way the speeds of "supposed to be slow boats" wont get through the roof anymore, cause the additional speed is based on the MWD/AB now.
- Inertia stabs: Change the signature penalty to a speed penalty. If you want an agile ship you won't go as fast anymore.
- Improve the inertia of interceptors so it would compensate the use of two overdrive modules.
- Nanofibers: Leave them alone again, little profits for both, speed and agility.
- Allow only 3 mods or rigs to be fitted at the same time that affect either of the following attributes: inertia, mass, speed

Even with this solution fast and agile are out of the picture if they were not supposed to be. Interceptors would stay where they are. This of course would change the behaviour of cloaked ships.


I totaly agree and wish CCP would take a real long serious look at the state of nano in the game.

I have played many years but, this unchecked easy mode play style most have took on is for the weak and scared.

Satura
WEPRA CORP
Posted - 2008.05.28 05:28:00 - [45]
 

Quote:
I do not want to fly Min recon..

Think this is the problem of all people who cry about nano ships. They either don't fly one, or don't have a few in gang. If you would try ingame as hard as you try on forums to counter your problem...think you would be pleased with the results.Wink

Hannobaal
Gallente
Punic Corp.
Posted - 2008.05.28 05:29:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Hannobaal on 28/05/2008 05:30:06
Originally by: LongHong Dong
It will make alot noob whine too much and we all know CCP caters to it's whiners.


Quoted for immense irony.


This is a horrible, horrible troll thread.

Cpt Cosmic
Posted - 2008.05.28 05:32:00 - [47]
 

too many lazy crybabies that refuse to counter here Rolling Eyes no work no result. if you think it is easier to cry around in forums, you are wrong nothing will be nerfed maybe except the new topic button Laughing there are a hand full of counters ingame but if you are not clever enough to use them it is your mega fail.

no point discussing it and btw lazytown for crybabies is here:)

and if you do, think before you post bullcrap, because one guy spend much money on a t2 ship and rigs to be able to escape, he countered your blobs and you cry because you cant get him. he cant kill you or rly threaten you. oh noes, poor noob is sucky at ganking lone nano targets at the gate. I also could say nerf spider tanking remote sensor boosted gangs because my nano gang cant kill it, same issue, not being prepared = fail.

Exuscon
Amarr
Frontier Explorations Inc.
Black Core Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.28 05:33:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Satura
Quote:
I do not want to fly Min recon..

Think this is the problem of all people who cry about nano ships. They either don't fly one, or don't have a few in gang. If you would try ingame as hard as you try on forums to counter your problem...think you would be pleased with the results.Wink


Hmm, few nanos?

A few is killable ,but I personaly only see them in mass in the 0.0 and low secs I frequent. I am not the only one that see it this way either.

Nano is off-the-chain and I beleive CCP is gonna do somthing about it soon Shocked

Beaverid Machinist
Posted - 2008.05.28 05:34:00 - [49]
 

If pilots that pilot nano ships are so weak then why are you *****ing and moaning about them? "Damn, it ****es me off that I cant murder someone. A kill mail would make me feel alot more domanant right now!" Come on guys, put your ****s away for a minute.

Exuscon
Amarr
Frontier Explorations Inc.
Black Core Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.28 05:40:00 - [50]
 

Hotaro's fix:


"For starters change the way of how overdrives, inertia stabilizers and nanofibers affect the speed. There are two ways i can think of right now...

1.
- Overdrives: Change the cargo capacity penalty to an inertia penalty. This would prevent ships from beeing agile and fast at the same time
- Inertia stabs: Chance the signature radius penalty to a speed penalty. This would prevent fast ships compensating the lack of agility.
- Nanofibers: Leave them alone, they would be a module that affects both attributes a little bit. A ship gets a little more agile and a little faster with an AB/MWD fitted.
- Improve the inertia of interceptors so it would compensate the use of two overdrive modules.
- Allow only 3 mods or rigs to be fitted at the same time that affect either of the following attributes: inertia, mass, speed

This way people would have to decide to be either very agile or fast, but not both at a time!
Interceptors would not be affected very much, cause they are agile as it is and with the inertia improvement they could fit overdrives without having to suffer from a bad inertia. Even covert ops would not suffer from that cause they still could fit overdrives to go fast as they are cloaked.

2.
- Overdrives: Change the cargo capacity penalty to an inertia penalty. Change the bonus to be a thrust bonus (AB/MWD) instead of a speed % bonus. This way the speeds of "supposed to be slow boats" wont get through the roof anymore, cause the additional speed is based on the MWD/AB now.
- Inertia stabs: Change the signature penalty to a speed penalty. If you want an agile ship you won't go as fast anymore.
- Improve the inertia of interceptors so it would compensate the use of two overdrive modules.
- Nanofibers: Leave them alone again, little profits for both, speed and agility.
- Allow only 3 mods or rigs to be fitted at the same time that affect either of the following attributes: inertia, mass, speed

Even with this solution fast and agile are out of the picture if they were not supposed to be. Interceptors would stay where they are. This of course would change the behaviour of cloaked ships."




Fair and balanced!

Lykah Storm
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2008.05.28 05:42:00 - [51]
 

Edited by: Lykah Storm on 28/05/2008 05:51:33
Edited by: Lykah Storm on 28/05/2008 05:44:29
I have seen closely how effective fast nano gangs are. The alliance where I used to be had big problem from nano gangs. Mostly because they didn't have the correct ships against them. They tried to fight them with battleship gangs. They tried to fight solo in battleships.

You don't win a nano fight with heavy tanked battleships. And there is nothing wrong on it.

There is just one exception, the mighty Bhaalgorn. With two faction/officer webbers it is the monster wich can slow nanos down for the fleet. Only problem is that it's expensive faction battleship so it will be called primary really fast.

Huginn. There is the ship what is the killer for nanos. Huginn has 60% bonus to stasis webifier range! Get more Huginns! Best named webber has range of 40 km in Huginn and it will take 90% of the speed away. Fit another and you knock out 99% of the speed away up to 40 km!

EDIT: Just realised that Rapier has the same bonus Laughing

So really, if you don't have nanos against nanos or Huginns around to help you - stay away from nano gang.

And if you get pwn'd by Vagabond in torp Raven in 0.0 while ratting - you can only blame yourself - not the Vagabond.

Exuscon
Amarr
Frontier Explorations Inc.
Black Core Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.28 05:51:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Exuscon on 28/05/2008 05:56:04
Originally by: Lykah Storm
Edited by: Lykah Storm on 28/05/2008 05:44:29
I have seen closely how effective fast nano gangs are. The alliance where I used to be had big problem from nano gangs. Mostly because they didn't have the correct ships against them. They tried to fight them with battleship gangs. They tried to fight solo in battleships.

You don't win a nano fight with heavy tanked battleships. And there is nothing wrong on it.

There is just one exception, the mighty Bhaalgorn. With two faction/officer webbers it is the monster wich can slow nanos down for the fleet. Only problem is that it's expensive faction battleship so it will be called primary really fast.

Huginn. There is the ship what is the killer for nanos. Huginn has 60% bonus to stasis webifier range! Get more Huginns! Best named webber has range of 40 km in Huginn and it will take 90% of the speed away. Fit another and you knock out 99% of the speed away up to 40 km!

So really, if you don't have nanos against nanos or Huginns around to help you - stay away from nano gang.

And if you get pwn'd by Vagabond in torp Raven in 0.0 while ratting - you can only blame yourself - not the Vagabond.



It should not be that way.

That is not balance. If you have full gangs of nothing but, one type (nano) set-ups running around there is a serious balance issue going on.

If its too popular and that is what most are using in PVP engagements, I would think it would raise an eyebrow as to somthing not being right? CCP is affraid to take another look and approach the nano issue or are they too scarred to because it might offend their lazy subscriber base?

If I was affraid to be in a risk taking ship (somthing other than nano-fitted) I would probaly be doing the same. I personaly like risks and will avoid easy mode gameplay style at all costs.

Only being able to effectively combat many large nano gangs with just a handfull of chasis is far from a well balanced EVE online PVP.


Lykah Storm
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2008.05.28 05:59:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Exuscon

Cut cut cut


There is Huginn and Rapier wich can take 99% of your speed up to 40 km using just best named webbers. That doesn't look what ship is there - the rest of the fleet will kill it. For example if your nanoship is flying 3500 m/s, you will be flying 35 m/s after those webs on you. And then it isn't hard to get one point of scram on you.

Killing nanos is perfect example of needed team work in Eve. Huginns and Rapiers with intys while rest of the fleet gets ready to shoot em.

You don't solo these nanos. And that's the real problem, not the balance.

Exuscon
Amarr
Frontier Explorations Inc.
Black Core Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.28 06:01:00 - [54]
 

Edited by: Exuscon on 28/05/2008 06:03:07
Edited by: Exuscon on 28/05/2008 06:01:14
Originally by: Lykah Storm
Originally by: Exuscon

Cut cut cut


There is Huginn and Rapier wich can take 99% of your speed up to 40 km using just best named webbers. That doesn't look what ship is there - the rest of the fleet will kill it. For example if your nanoship is flying 3500 m/s, you will be flying 35 m/s after those webs on you. And then it isn't hard to get one point of scram on you.

Killing nanos is perfect example of needed team work in Eve. Huginns and Rapiers with intys while rest of the fleet gets ready to shoot em.

You don't solo these nanos. And that's the real problem, not the balance.



Every player in the game thats been here any amount of time has flown or flys that style.

It's whats popular now.

Quit pretending there are usualy just a couple.

Easier said than done with theres like 40 of them running around the region.

Want me to start naming aliances? The list will be huge!

Hannobaal
Gallente
Punic Corp.
Posted - 2008.05.28 06:07:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Exuscon
Edited by: Exuscon on 28/05/2008 06:01:14
Originally by: Lykah Storm
Originally by: Exuscon

Cut cut cut


There is Huginn and Rapier wich can take 99% of your speed up to 40 km using just best named webbers. That doesn't look what ship is there - the rest of the fleet will kill it. For example if your nanoship is flying 3500 m/s, you will be flying 35 m/s after those webs on you. And then it isn't hard to get one point of scram on you.

Killing nanos is perfect example of needed team work in Eve. Huginns and Rapiers with intys while rest of the fleet gets ready to shoot em.

You don't solo these nanos. And that's the real problem, not the balance.



Quit pretending there are usualy just a couple.

Easier said than done with theres like 40 of them running around the region.


So, you bring a balanced fleet of 40 or more of your own. And if you can't bring that, well then the problem isn't their speed, it's your numbers.

Exuscon
Amarr
Frontier Explorations Inc.
Black Core Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.28 06:10:00 - [56]
 

Edited by: Exuscon on 28/05/2008 06:14:26
Originally by: Hannobaal
Originally by: Exuscon
Edited by: Exuscon on 28/05/2008 06:01:14
Originally by: Lykah Storm
Originally by: Exuscon

Cut cut cut


There is Huginn and Rapier wich can take 99% of your speed up to 40 km using just best named webbers. That doesn't look what ship is there - the rest of the fleet will kill it. For example if your nanoship is flying 3500 m/s, you will be flying 35 m/s after those webs on you. And then it isn't hard to get one point of scram on you.

Killing nanos is perfect example of needed team work in Eve. Huginns and Rapiers with intys while rest of the fleet gets ready to shoot em.

You don't solo these nanos. And that's the real problem, not the balance.



Quit pretending there are usualy just a couple.

Easier said than done with theres like 40 of them running around the region.


So, you bring a balanced fleet of 40 or more of your own. And if you can't bring that, well then the problem isn't their speed, it's your numbers.



Quit being a twit and face the facts.

You are missing the point.

40 nanos are a balanced fleet?

Cpt Cosmic
Posted - 2008.05.28 06:17:00 - [57]
 

a remote repping neut cruise raven gang fitted against nanos will easily defeat a group of nanos as an example.

too bad most people dont have working braincells or are too lazy to use them, that means even if it gets nerfed causes of those crybabies (what will not happen) they will still suck and dont get them Laughing

Exuscon
Amarr
Frontier Explorations Inc.
Black Core Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.28 06:19:00 - [58]
 

Edited by: Exuscon on 28/05/2008 06:19:28
Originally by: Cpt Cosmic
a remote repping neut cruise raven gang fitted against nanos will easily defeat a group of nanos as an example.

too bad most people dont have working braincells or are too lazy to use them, that means even if it gets nerfed causes of those crybabies (what will not happen) they will still suck and dont get them Laughing


I have no problem killing a few solo as well. That is not what we are talking about here.

I wanna see the fraps of your Raven defeating 40 nanos.

Kweel Nakashyn
shadow and cloaking
Yggdrasill.
Posted - 2008.05.28 06:19:00 - [59]
 

Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 28/05/2008 06:20:08
Originally by: LongHong Dong
What counters?

webs nub

Let's go for the 4th speed nerf since two years ?

Hannobaal
Gallente
Punic Corp.
Posted - 2008.05.28 06:21:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Exuscon

Quit being a twit and face the facts.

You are missing the point.

40 nanos are a balanced fleet?


No they're not, and that's exactly why a balanced, well organized, fleet defeats them.


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