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Eddy Vasquez
Posted - 2008.05.25 10:34:00 - [1]
 

Hi there,

as i intend to buy me a shiny new CNR with faction and officer mods to run lvl4's for a good agent (which implies mission hubs), i wanted to know if there are any possibilities to safe my investment.

Do you guys have any tips except "don't fly what you can't afford" or "fly for low quality agents"? Would a secound account with support do (like a Guardian or something)?

tia

Eddy

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2008.05.25 10:39:00 - [2]
 

A second account with a guardian would help, but is FAR worse compared to just using 2 accounts with ravens. Then better use another raven with remote shield reppers fitted. Or go to a lower quality agent, it will have less lag so you actually make more isk. Having 5 med ECM drones and 5 light combat drones for missions might help you survive if you are really lucky.

And use mainly t2 gear, limitted faction and no deadspace gear.

Locii
Posted - 2008.05.25 10:41:00 - [3]
 

Dont invite strangers to your gang. dont engage looters stealing your loot. just dont give them a method of popping your ship while mission whoring.

Brachis
Caldari
Eve Liberation Force
OWN Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.25 10:44:00 - [4]
 

High sec ganking, even and especially for well-fit mission runners isn't a problem.

Gankers don't care that you have a CNR save for the killmail, and actually killing a CNR which has been fitted to deal with missions isn't something that a ganker is going to take lightly.

The normal high sec ganking only ever seems to be a problem for people who don't pay attention, or people who have weak ships or poor fittings. The majority of high sec ganks come from your kill being profitable. This is why freighters and transports are frequent targets.
Normally the number of ships it would require to take down a properly fit CNR makes the losses to concord not worth the profit off of the CNR kill (If they even get the CNR kill at all).

I could be totally wrong though, but I haven't heard a lot of stories of mission runners getting popped by pirates when they're flying armed-to-the-teeth battleships.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.05.25 10:48:00 - [5]
 

If someone wants to take you down and they have some friends, then they will. 10 suicide ravens loaded with torp launchers and heavy neuts will kill you in a couple of volleys, regardless of your fit.

What you can do is reduce the chance of them selecting you and make it require more ships.

A buddy with a Seige Mindlink will add +15% to your shield hp, and he can run a Shield harmonising gang link too (+22.5% on shield resists, before stacking penalties).

Don't smack in local, ever.

Some missions are stupidly easy ( eg: Duo of Death) - keep a standard T2-fit raven for these missions and reduce your exposure. Don't just do combat missions 23/7 from the same agent. Avoid very crowded mission hubs - dropping 2-3 points of agent quality has a negligible effect on ISK/Hr.

Don't fit more than you need for a specific mission; the really expensive fits are to enable lazy, semi-AFK permatanking. Save yourself a couple of billion and use a fit that needs a little management. Hint: Ravens need DPS more than extra tank once you get past being able to fit T2. Your leadership gang buddy will help you with tank anyway.

Shintai
Gallente
Arx Io Orbital Factories
Arx Io
Posted - 2008.05.25 10:49:00 - [6]
 

Ye usually only easy targets. Even Freigters are something you think twice about and need some 10-15 BS to help kill for maybe 4-5billion. 99% of all suicide ganks are against shuttles, frigs and industrials. Already with transports and cruisers you are relatively very secure. But ofcourse, thats asuming you fit it for tank.

Ethaet
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2008.05.25 10:50:00 - [7]
 

Avoid fitting any officer modules at all, and avoid too much faction (including launchers - train for t2s, they do more dps with spec 4 anyway)

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.05.25 10:55:00 - [8]
 

How about keeping the value of total droppable items below, say 800 mil or so? Use implants and rigs to pimp. Nothing else will keep you safe.

Eddy Vasquez
Posted - 2008.05.25 10:55:00 - [9]
 

thx 4 your replies.

@ Furbkiller

I guess Malcanis is right here. If i would bring a second raven or support ship, the gankers will just bring more ships. As i saw on battleclinic KB, it takes about 5 to 7 Ravens to take out a well mission fitted NCR with Gist XL booster. I had to keep that 2nd Raven at a safespot, alligned and ready to warp i guess, but i doubt that it will be there fast enough.

@ Locii

Yeah, that's clear. Read a lot allready about those techniques

@ Brachis

take a look at battleclinic and search system Irjunen for example. You'll see a lot of CNRs there got popped by no more than 5 Torp fitted ravens from, of course, alts

@ Malcanis

Do you know what the basic tactic from those gankers is? They scan your ship at some station, then get a cov ops scan you out in a mission and pop? Is it like that?

Staggerr
Broski North
Posted - 2008.05.25 10:56:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Staggerr on 25/05/2008 10:56:06
Omni tank the ship. Suicide gankers, and even scam gankers will try to find your softspot.

Even the best shieldbooster isn't gonna help much if you don't have any cap. Laughing

A passive tank might give you more survivabilty against a gank but a passive CNR is a bad idea anyway.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.05.25 10:57:00 - [11]
 

Pretty much. If they use a passive targeter on the ship-scanning ship, you'll never even know.

Eddy Vasquez
Posted - 2008.05.25 11:00:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Ethaet
Avoid fitting any officer modules at all, and avoid too much faction (including launchers - train for t2s, they do more dps with spec 4 anyway)


my thoughs were some officer launchers and a Gist Xl booster, rest standard T2 or low faction. I find lvl4's boring to hell, but imho it's the best way to earn the isk to waste in pvp. Therefore i want to do those more quickly as possible. And as i'm a totaly newbie to pvp, i think high sec wars would do better for me for the first time instead of low sec pirate blobs or 0.0 capital fleet lagfests.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.05.25 11:04:00 - [13]
 

Also:

GTFO the warp-in point ASAP - don't just enter the mission, lock targets, F1-F7 and sit there like a chump; A T2 warp scram has 24Km range... Be aligned, if not at speed. be extra vigilant in missions with warp-scrambling rats, and make sure to kill those little buggers first (you should do this anyway).

Oh yeah and keep and eye on local. A sudden influx of skulls and yellow tabs = time for caution.

5pinDizzy
Amarr
Pillow Fighters Inc
Posted - 2008.05.25 11:05:00 - [14]
 

Sorry for the use of bold but I'm annoyed.

What the hell is it with the Guardian being the only tech 2 logistics ship anyone ever wants to use? There are hundreds of them in alliance tourneys, and even this Caldari Shield Tanker got told to use a Guardian, now tell me if I'm wrong, but I only remember the Guardian getting armor rep bonuses.

Marine HK4861
Caldari
State Protectorate
Posted - 2008.05.25 11:05:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Ethaet
Avoid fitting any officer modules at all, and avoid too much faction (including launchers - train for t2s, they do more dps with spec 4 anyway)


No, they don't. With my skills (Cruise spec to 4) and same fitting:

Caldari Navy Cruise Launcher: 6.8sec ROF
TII Cruise launcher: 7.1sec ROF

Even with spec skill to 5, it's still short of what a faction launcher can do.

T2 launchers are very cheap compared to faction though.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.05.25 11:05:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Ethaet
Avoid fitting any officer modules at all, and avoid too much faction (including launchers - train for t2s, they do more dps with spec 4 anyway)


Dread launchers are better than T2 with spec 5.

Eddy Vasquez
Posted - 2008.05.25 11:12:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: 5pinDizzy
Sorry for the use of bold but I'm annoyed.

What the hell is it with the Guardian being the only tech 2 logistics ship anyone ever wants to use? There are hundreds of them in alliance tourneys, and even this Caldari Shield Tanker got told to use a Guardian, now tell me if I'm wrong, but I only remember the Guardian getting armor rep bonuses.


Gsus Christ, calm down. I've seen the Guardian in the Alliance Torunament, and recently some mates had a guardian. So, sorry for that, just replace guardian to logistic ship and relax :)

Ethaet
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2008.05.25 11:17:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Eddy Vasquez
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
Sorry for the use of bold but I'm annoyed.

What the hell is it with the Guardian being the only tech 2 logistics ship anyone ever wants to use? There are hundreds of them in alliance tourneys, and even this Caldari Shield Tanker got told to use a Guardian, now tell me if I'm wrong, but I only remember the Guardian getting armor rep bonuses.


Gsus Christ, calm down. I've seen the Guardian in the Alliance Torunament, and recently some mates had a guardian. So, sorry for that, just replace guardian to logistic ship and relax :)

The guardian is generally considered the best due to its PVP uses, as armour > shield.
Also, 2 guardians can create cap out of nowhere by running a cap transfer on each other due to the cap transfer cap use bonus, which the oneiros can't do.

The basilisk can do the same cap trick, but that isn't very useful without 2+ logistics ships, but a basilisk is better for a raven as it reps shield (also, shield reps rep at the start of the cycle rather than the end like armour)

Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Emptiness.
Posted - 2008.05.25 11:18:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Kagura Nikon on 25/05/2008 11:18:34
Originally by: Brachis
High sec ganking, even and especially for well-fit mission runners isn't a problem.

Gankers don't care that you have a CNR save for the killmail, and actually killing a CNR which has been fitted to deal with missions isn't something that a ganker is going to take lightly.

The normal high sec ganking only ever seems to be a problem for people who don't pay attention, or people who have weak ships or poor fittings. The majority of high sec ganks come from your kill being profitable. This is why freighters and transports are frequent targets.
Normally the number of ships it would require to take down a properly fit CNR makes the losses to concord not worth the profit off of the CNR kill (If they even get the CNR kill at all).

I could be totally wrong though, but I haven't heard a lot of stories of mission runners getting popped by pirates when they're flying armed-to-the-teeth battleships.


Simply not true. Fit a deadspace X Large shield booster 2 officer PDU and 1 officer cap recharger and it become VERY worth to put 30-40 bs to gank you.

the main question is why someoen woudl use an officer fit ship to run missions? THey are already so easy with T2? Faction stuff is more than enough to pip your ship into near maximum isk/hour production.

Qui Shon
Posted - 2008.05.25 11:21:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Sokratesz
How about keeping the value of total droppable items below, say 800 mil or so? Use implants and rigs to pimp. Nothing else will keep you safe.


Not low enough.

Eddy Vasquez
Posted - 2008.05.25 11:22:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Eddy Vasquez on 25/05/2008 11:25:40
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
the main question is why someoen woudl use an officer fit ship to run missions? THey are already so easy with T2? Faction stuff is more than enough to pip your ship into near maximum isk/hour production.


This beeing said, why would anyone use officer mods anyways?

*edit*

@ Sokratesz

Considering that it takes 5 to 7 BS to gank a mission fitted BS, every fit above approx. 300m is basically worth ganking. Thanks to insurance. Embarassed

Ethaet
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2008.05.25 11:23:00 - [22]
 

The reason you intended to in your original post - they want to do the mission 1% faster.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.05.25 11:35:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Eddy Vasquez
CNR with faction and officer mods to run lvl4's for a good agent (which implies mission hubs)

Actually, no, it doesn't necessarily imply mission hubs.
The ISK rewards from agent quality are insignifiant compared to the fixed bounties you get in the missions, and LPs are far, far more influenced by agent system security than agent quality (especially with decent social skills).
All you want is a L4 agent (regardless of quality) in a highsec system with as low of a truesec as you can find, and if possible, without lowsecs one jump away.

Quote:
i wanted to know if there are any possibilities to safe my investment.

Keep "droppable" loot under 500 mil ISK in value and you should be fine even in hubs.
1 bil ISK in droppable loot, you should be worried every time you undock in a hub, might be ok-ish for an out-of way system.
2+ bil ISK in droppable loot, and it is only a matter of time until you get ganked in a hub, might take a while (or never happen at all if you also keep your mouth shut) in an out-of-way system.

Tom Tomahawk
Posted - 2008.05.25 11:35:00 - [24]
 

Don't worry, only noobs and AFKers are killed in highsec, concord protects you well.
Fit a heavy estamel tank, just to be sure.

Btw, are you doing that missions with this char ? And in what system / time ? (Just curious Wink).

Eddy Vasquez
Posted - 2008.05.25 11:39:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Eddy Vasquez on 25/05/2008 11:41:17
Originally by: Tom Tomahawk
Don't worry, only noobs and AFKers are killed in highsec, concord protects you well.
Fit a heavy estamel tank, just to be sure.

Btw, are you doing that missions with this char ? And in what system / time ? (Just curious Wink).


I see what you did there. I'll give you a complete evemail with my fitting, time and system when it's rdy, so you don't even have to bother with scanning Twisted Evil

*edit*

maybe i shall invest my hard earned ISK into a mining career. There also most expensive implants and modules, but i doubt that anyone would kill me except jihad swarm Very Happy

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.05.25 12:37:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Eddy Vasquez
Edited by: Eddy Vasquez on 25/05/2008 11:25:40
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
the main question is why someoen woudl use an officer fit ship to run missions? THey are already so easy with T2? Faction stuff is more than enough to pip your ship into near maximum isk/hour production.


This beeing said, why would anyone use officer mods anyways?

*edit*

@ Sokratesz

Considering that it takes 5 to 7 BS to gank a mission fitted BS, every fit above approx. 300m is basically worth ganking. Thanks to insurance. Embarassed


Although technically correct, due to the time and effort it takes to find a suitable target (up to a few hours of scanning people) i'd say that a value of 7-800mil is minimum to be ganked, as half of it will (on average) be destroyed in the kill.

Lykah Storm
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2008.05.25 12:39:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Eddy Vasquez
Hi there,

as i intend to buy me a shiny new CNR with faction and officer mods to run lvl4's for a good agent (which implies mission hubs), i wanted to know if there are any possibilities to safe my investment.

Do you guys have any tips except "don't fly what you can't afford" or "fly for low quality agents"? Would a secound account with support do (like a Guardian or something)?

tia

Eddy
Trial account. Or noobalt. Suicide it to bring concord next to you. That keeps the respond time short Cool

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2008.05.25 12:45:00 - [28]
 

Best advice would probably be not to announce on the forum you're getting a ship like that Razz

You've already dismissed the best advice (stay out of mission hubs), so most likely you'll get ganked with a fit like that. Tbh, you'd be deserving it too....

Eddy Vasquez
Posted - 2008.05.25 13:29:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Lykah Storm
Trial account. Or noobalt. Suicide it to bring concord next to you. That keeps the respond time short Cool


Great Idea! That could do the trick. Though it might be a lot of trial accounts as sec status will be down very shortly after a few missions Cool

But i take it the will still be able to destroy me. They would just need more ships. Any ideas how many?

Besides, how hard is it to scan someone out in a mission? And how long does it approx. take to do so? Does it help to have the ship scanner open and look out for cov ops in near vicinty?


Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.05.25 13:35:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 25/05/2008 13:36:17
Originally by: Lykah Storm
Trial account. Or noobalt. Suicide it to bring concord next to you. That keeps the respond time short Cool

And also keeps the nerves tense, for the impending ban on grounds of "exploiting negative security status alt recycling".
Seriously, if I ever see somebody do that, I'd just petition him in an instant, and wait until his main gets banned after he recycles it (if it's an alt) or if he creates a new trial to do the same thing again.


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