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Jernau Riggs
Posted - 2008.05.22 22:08:00 - [241]
 

sucks a bit really i'm european and used to buy 90 day game time codes

shattered crystel sold them for $38.85 divide that by 90 days = $0.43 per day x that by 60 days = $25.9 and ccp's new price is £34.99 for 60 days so thats a $9.09 price increase per 60 days.

Thats an extra $54.54 price increase per year.

Compare that to the $155.4 we were paying per year and thats a 35% price increase.

Clone 231C
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2008.05.22 22:13:00 - [242]
 

Edited by: Clone 231C on 22/05/2008 22:15:12
Originally by: Captain Detech
Edited by: Captain Detech on 22/05/2008 19:48:48
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Akelorian
Originally by: Fallorn
Our government blows right now sure but then again your's wouldn't exist if it wasn't for us in WW2. That and a massive amount of people despise of current government look at the approval ratings.


Eh? Perhaps you should read up on who won that war, and why the American's decided to fight in it, (Pearl Harbour Maybe?) The Main country's that fought in WWII were Canada/Russia/England, USA didn't want to help so the Japanese persuaded them, so don't say if it wasn't for us you wouldn't have a country. Glad your proud that you guys dropped two bombs and murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent men women and children.

Ignorant American


Your post was even more ignorant than his. Please keep this nonsense out of this forum.


True, but theres something to be said for a country sitting by and watching for 3 years, and I'm not just talking about the fighting...

Anyhow on topic, bad choice that will alienate a lot of players and scare off potential subscribers.


HMM.... I wonder what continent spewed fourth the people who wiped out the Aztecs, enslaved half of the world, and killed people on multiple occasions for their imaginary friend. Europeans have no leg to stand on from a humanitarian view, your history is full of brutality, and when mobility permitted it, you brought your violence to the rest of the world. Colonization, slavery, species eradication, these are Europe's gifts to the world.

The ONLY way that most Britains feel good about themselves is to point out other's flaws. Smile and say hi to Gandhi for me, or South Africa (Africa in general) or the Philippines, or ect.......

Anyway, CCP should just bite the bit and say we are raising prices for americans because your dollar sucks. This stealth 60 day time code affair makes them look like microsoft imho.

Fallorn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.05.22 22:26:00 - [243]
 

Funny thing now they just said that the other prices are not going up so they are just doing this to **** off people who use time cards. Americans can still pay $15 but we have to do it directly which is a pain in the rear.

June K'aral
Posted - 2008.05.22 22:28:00 - [244]
 

blagh, this is not going to end well I think ugh.

Commenting on the news post. What industry standard?! The only 2 MMO's I can see that use just 60 day cards is WOW and LOTRO. Sony uses 30 and 90-day card system, NCSoft(City of Heroes, Tabula Rasa,...) has 15, 30, 60-day cards.
Why then was the choice made of going with a system that is clearly in the minority?
Why not give the players the choice?
Wouldn't a system similar to NCSoft's be better? Where you'd have a 30 day for 20$(19.99$), 60 day for 30$(29.99$) and a 90 day for 40(or 38.85$ whatever the current price is).
Lack of options could very well drive players away...

At a guess, it will end up with subs going up as well...
Will sub costs finnally be made sensible and euro not have to pay more then US before VAT? 15$ and 15€ for the same thing is crap.


Scopa Outta
Posted - 2008.05.22 22:35:00 - [245]
 

Originally by: Faye Valerii
CCP isn't raising prices, it's dollar-types who've been paying less and less... Don't forget CCP is an Icelandic company, and most of their costs are paid in krφner (wages) and pounds (datacenter is in London). Compared to those currencies the dollar is worth crap these days.

And yeah, as a savvy Euro I've been using the strength of my currency to buy GTC's in dollars, thus saving a not totally unnoticable amount of money.

So Americans, go take a **** on Alan Greenspan and his successor : )


Umm, no, the only people that have been paying less are non-US people that are paid in a foreign currency that has been appreciating against the dollar. American salaries certainly haven't been rising to compensate for the dollar's lower buying power abroad. Americans haven't been paying less as a % of their income as the value of the dollar has fallen.

The only people that have been making out well with this scenario are britons, europeans, australians, asians, etc etc that convert their strengthening currency to dollars and buy usd-priced gtcs--for them the price of an eve subscription has been falling for years. So why you non-US people think Americans have been getting some kind of "deal" is beyond me, especially when you're buying usd-denominated gtcs for the same price we can... Rolling Eyes


James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.05.22 22:39:00 - [246]
 

I find my monthly subscription price unchanged. *shrug*. Colour me apathetic about this.

James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.05.22 22:40:00 - [247]
 

Originally by: June K'aral


The only 2 MMO's I can see that use just 60 day cards is WOW and LOTRO.




Yeah, but to be fair, have you _seen_ how much market share WOW has? That's in industry standard right there.

Avaricia
The Accursed
Space Jerks
Posted - 2008.05.22 22:44:00 - [248]
 

lol @ isk buyer tears

Kalintos Tyl
Minmatar
Bloody Amarr's
Posted - 2008.05.22 22:47:00 - [249]
 

well alt will train exhumers to 5 i think. and then go on sale i think. You just dumped my second account.

theteck
Posted - 2008.05.22 22:47:00 - [250]
 

need to open a US branch and the problem its gone?

Sha Dar
eXceed Inc.
Posted - 2008.05.22 22:51:00 - [251]
 

Agreed.

Price rise, understandable as over time, almost everything costs more.

Taking away all flexibility for subscription duration by removing 30 and 90 day options.. bad.

Only option is to start screaming at their excuse for customer support and see if the flexibility can be kept while incorporating the price rise, assuming it's necessry.

Ethaet
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2008.05.22 22:52:00 - [252]
 

What is this?

I am considering closing several alt accounts which generated money for CCP before, as now I am expected to pay for longer amounts of time in one go, and for a higher price.

CCP, this will not make you more money, it will lose you it.

What are these 'industry standards'? I thought just about every subscription based game had 1 month increments available, in addition to longer ones.

THEGREAT LOBO
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2008.05.22 22:53:00 - [253]
 

I don't care about a price rise, i just care about not being able to buy 30 days or 90 day codes. Why can't we have all 3 ?

Hitoshi Yamadori
Posted - 2008.05.22 22:53:00 - [254]
 

Think thats couse of the dollar-euro exchange course. And as they only talk about dollar prices and not euros. They only will change prices of the GTCs bought in dollar. So no change for europeans.

And as stated, CCP will not change the subscription prices. So also no changes here.
Quote:
This change will not affect other payment options such as credit cards etc.


Slez
Caldari
Imperial Syndicate Forces
Posted - 2008.05.22 23:00:00 - [255]
 

Originally by: Toolbert
At this point, CCP might aswell add in a life time subscription option. I would seriously consider it now. Hellgate London, and Lord of the Rings both offer these options for $150 for one account. I think the idea is awesome and I would be willing to pay that high but one time fee to not have to worry about time cards and monthly fee increases ever again.
They offer lifetime sub, because people quit after the first month when the new game appeal wears off and you realize how stupid and repetitive both games are.

James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.05.22 23:05:00 - [256]
 

Published subscription rates are:
1 Month, €14.95 = 23.5119USD (14.95EUR/month)
3 Month, €38.85 = 61.0995USD (12.95EUR/month)
6 Month, €71.70 = 112.774USD (11.95EUR/month)
12 Months, €131.40 = 206.674USD. (10.95EUR/month)

60 day codes, at $34.99 is 22.25EUR. Or 11.125EUR/month. E.g. Cheaper than every regularly paying customer who's not paying annually.

Marine HK4861
Caldari
State Protectorate
Posted - 2008.05.22 23:07:00 - [257]
 

Originally by: Shakuul
I don't see how voluntarily giving more money to your government when you aren't legally obligated to makes you "honest."



Except you are. It's called VAT Evasion.

And the HM R&C version.

Whether the government can be bother to enforce it every time on individual $15 USD transactions is their choice.

Dagejoor
Caldari
STK Scientific
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.05.22 23:10:00 - [258]
 

Oh dear, this is defiantly the wrong way to do things. one of the great things with eve is the amount of choice and freedom the players get when it comes to subscriptions and play time.

Removing the 30 day and 90 day time cards is a terrible idea. especially the 30 day option!

I hope you guys come to your senses.

Marine HK4861
Caldari
State Protectorate
Posted - 2008.05.22 23:13:00 - [259]
 


Slez
Caldari
Imperial Syndicate Forces
Posted - 2008.05.22 23:14:00 - [260]
 

If you gotta raise price, fine. Not your fault really.

But getting rid of 30 days is just moronic. Losing all these accounts makes up for whatever reason was pulled out of someones ass for it?

Brutama
Asteroid Cowboys
Pest Control Union
Posted - 2008.05.22 23:24:00 - [261]
 

My 2 accounts:
old 30days (2xETC) -> 29,90$ or 19,55€
old 60days (4xETC) -> 59,80$ or 39,08€
new 60days (2xETC) -> 69,98$ or 45,74€
(1€=1,53$)

Im not worrying about the 10$/7€ more for 2 month... it's the fact that i don't want to pay for time that i'm not using (work, holiday, ...)!

Why is there no option to freeze the acount with e.g 1 week minimum-freeze-time?

okcerg
Posted - 2008.05.22 23:30:00 - [262]
 

I think this change is a huge kick in the face of european players buying 30d US GTC:

- If flexibility is more important than the price, you'll have to pay max price with CC subscription: 15€.
- If price does matter, you'll keep buying GTC in dollars, but you'll lose some flexibility with the 60d card.

So in fact it's VERY simple: cheap + flexible is over. And that sounds fair to be honnest...

Well now, because of RL issues, flexibility is right now the most important thing, and the Uncle Sam GTC's allowed me to afford 2 accounts for 19€ per 30 days of playtime. 15 days from now it will be 30€ to keep that flexibility I need. Unfortunately I can't afford that now. So I'm really looking forward a CCP reaction on the forums, and if this is confirmed I will invest in a character transfer and close my alt account. I will be back to a "normal" playstyle, 1 account at the time, 1 computer, my wife will be happier but CCP will lose 4€ per 30 days of playtime.

Imajihad ju
Posted - 2008.05.22 23:33:00 - [263]
 

They're raising the price of the timecards so that the Europeans can't get around the vat, and if so that if they choose to, they end up giving CCP the same amount of cash.

Europeans seem to like forgetting that they're paying a 24.5% Icelandic Vat and that CCP only gets 11.325 Euros out of the 15 Euros they pay. Where as they get 15 of the 15 dollars Americans pay them (after which is subject to normal icelandic taxes, just like the 11.325 Euros are). Now 11.325 Euros is a bit over $17 dollars so they're still giving CCP a little bit more than Americans. But not as much as they'd like to think.

However that also means that back when EVE started, Euros were actually giving CCP less money than Americans. So stick the 'its unfair' right where the sun doesn't shine because you're all hypocritical children of unwedded mothers and you're full of bloody bull manure.

Removing the 30 day and the 90 day options and creating the 60 day option and trying to pretend there is no price hike however, thats just stupidity and an insult to their customer base.

Thorradin
State Protectorate
Posted - 2008.05.22 23:38:00 - [264]
 

Originally by: Toolbert
At this point, CCP might aswell add in a life time subscription option. I would seriously consider it now. Hellgate London, and Lord of the Rings both offer these options for $150 for one account. I think the idea is awesome and I would be willing to pay that high but one time fee to not have to worry about time cards and monthly fee increases ever again.


A 1 year sub is only around $100, offering a life-time sub for $150 would probably make a bunch of money early on, then leave them with crippled income and lower revenue over time. I never understood the logic of those lifetime subs, unless they figured people who would play for a year or so would pay and quit anyways, leaving false inflated subscription #s and they'd make more overall, but I don't buy it tbh.Confused

Deathtouche
Posted - 2008.05.22 23:45:00 - [265]
 

They bring this in without helping us by giving us the option to pay by debit card in the UK, Raise the prices but please explain why removing the flexibility is good. Sad

jAMAmba MamabaI
Posted - 2008.05.23 00:02:00 - [266]
 

Maybe what CCP aims to do is target those afk skill trainers who setup a 40 day l5 right before going on a vacation. By cutting game time into 60 day blocks its a lot harder to avoid training large skills while subbed and by implementing this plan they can still make more money

Maybe this plan is also made to revalue the isk currency, with everyone getting more money making isk worth more real money would be a way of decreasing inflation.

Shionoya Risa
The Xenodus Initiative.
Posted - 2008.05.23 00:15:00 - [267]
 

Originally by: Dagejoor


I hope you guys come to your senses.


Your sig... Nice title you gave yourself. Wink

Damien Cerverus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.05.23 00:25:00 - [268]
 

Edited by: Damien Cerverus on 28/05/2008 04:52:27
EPIC FAIL to the highest degree.

did anyone notice that the price for the new 60 day gtc is $4 less than the 90 day GTC? They increased the price/day ratio to screw players who rely on them because they make more money on the $15 monthly fee. So now it makes LESS sense to get a GTC. FAIL FAIL FAIL

if you want more money be more straightforward with it CCP

CSM please save us from this injustice

Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Posted - 2008.05.23 00:35:00 - [269]
 

Originally by: James Lyrus
Published subscription rates are:
1 Month, €14.95 = 23.5119USD (14.95EUR/month)
3 Month, €38.85 = 61.0995USD (12.95EUR/month)
6 Month, €71.70 = 112.774USD (11.95EUR/month)
12 Months, €131.40 = 206.674USD. (10.95EUR/month)

60 day codes, at $34.99 is 22.25EUR. Or 11.125EUR/month. E.g. Cheaper than every regularly paying customer who's not paying annually.

So all they've done is bring gtc prices in line with the European subscription costs at significant discount. In addition, they've left US residents using traditional payment methods like credit/debit cards with their old sub prices, meaning that despite the dollar being weak they still get the game dirt cheap and aren't affected unless they buy GTCs. The only reason to buy GTCs with cash and then add them to your account is if you can't use the traditional methods such as a debit card but can use those that the GTC supplier accepts such as paypal. HOWEVER, since GTCs were launched, CCP has added a new option to their normal subscription choices. You can now pay by PayByCash, who in turn can accept paypal and a myriad of other payment options.

If they'd explained all that in the press release, there wouldn't have been so much of a ****storm on the forums.

Shakuul
Caldari
RuffRyders
Axiom Empire
Posted - 2008.05.23 00:37:00 - [270]
 

Originally by: Imajihad ju
They're raising the price of the timecards so that the Europeans can't get around the vat, and if so that if they choose to, they end up giving CCP the same amount of cash.

Europeans seem to like forgetting that they're paying a 24.5% Icelandic Vat and that CCP only gets 11.325 Euros out of the 15 Euros they pay. Where as they get 15 of the 15 dollars Americans pay them (after which is subject to normal icelandic taxes, just like the 11.325 Euros are). Now 11.325 Euros is a bit over $17 dollars so they're still giving CCP a little bit more than Americans. But not as much as they'd like to think.

However that also means that back when EVE started, Euros were actually giving CCP less money than Americans. So stick the 'its unfair' right where the sun doesn't shine because you're all hypocritical children of unwedded mothers and you're full of bloody bull manure.

Removing the 30 day and the 90 day options and creating the 60 day option and trying to pretend there is no price hike however, thats just stupidity and an insult to their customer base.


Shouldn't the tax only be on Value Added...so CCP deducts server expenses and everything before paying the tax (since these are basically inputs that they purchased)? If this is the case, I doubt the impact of the VAT is as drastic as you're making it out to be.


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