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Dataios
Posted - 2008.05.22 20:11:00 - [211]
 

Originally by: Furb Killer
Dollar expenses of CCP are far less then other currencies...


Now that CCP has merged with White Wolf (HQ'd in Atlanta)? Don't be so sure.

Gabriel Karade
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2008.05.22 20:11:00 - [212]
 

Originally by: mamolian
Edited by: mamolian on 22/05/2008 18:02:50
Originally by: Gabriel Karade



And a monthly credit card subscriber pays £12.07. So I ask I have to ask, why should I be subsidising YOUR game time?

You have nothing to whine about.


Whos forcing you to pay monthly? The whole point in paying in chunks in advance is to save money.. ? Rolling Eyes
I was comparing like for like, you know 30 days = 1 month?... Rolling Eyes

Gabriel Karade
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2008.05.22 20:12:00 - [213]
 

Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 22/05/2008 20:29:37
Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 22/05/2008 20:15:24

Originally by: Furnak Tye
Edited by: Furnak Tye on 22/05/2008 18:06:11
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
And a monthly credit card subscriber pays £12.07. So I ask I have to ask, why should I be subsidising YOUR game time?

You have nothing to whine about.


Get off your throne you ****er, Maybe if you weren't such a complete **** you'd have read what I said properly instead of sticking a pole up your bum and acting all holy. I wasn't explicitly complaining about the the price increases but manner that they were introducing it, or am I too subtle for you.
Prices rises that only affect people who are already getting the game for cheap nobhead... Rolling Eyes

Oh and lets just be clear, those playing the GTC game to avoid VAT (tax evasion 4tw eh? Rolling Eyes) will still be getting the game cheap compared to the subscribers...

So no, I don't give a damn how they introduced the rises, only that muppets whining here now, were getting it cheap and have the audacity to complain the playing field is getting levelled...

XXJackXX
Caldari
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2008.05.22 20:13:00 - [214]
 

Make the price of 60 more useable or kepp 30 or 90day GTC.
and everyone saying the stop buying GTC and pay your money STFU there is some people cant efford to pay real money to game.

Haakelen
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.05.22 20:14:00 - [215]
 

Originally by: Mystri
Good Post


Thanks for that, as it illustrates the situation relatively well.

Originally by: Mystri
No, i'm not an economist, but i'm sure one will come along a shoot me down. Very Happy



I'm sure some serious internet economist will flame you eventually don't lose hope yet Cool.

Metangela Usafa
Posted - 2008.05.22 20:18:00 - [216]
 

I have run 3 accounts for over a year and just started a 4th 2 months ago. I was figuring on paying 1/2 with ISK and 1/2 with REAL money. I will play until they run out of game time, at which point I will decide which accounts, if any, I keep active. This is a pretty hefty price bump and what kinda ticks me off is they didn't even have the nads to say "We have to raise the price." Back doored us.

Gabriel Karade
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2008.05.22 20:18:00 - [217]
 

Originally by: XXJackXX
Make the price of 60 more useable or kepp 30 or 90day GTC.
and everyone saying the stop buying GTC and pay your money STFU there is some people cant efford to pay real money to game.
Since when is this a charity?

I don't have a problem with people buying GTC for isk, I have a problem with the person who bought it for cash getting a much better deal than a subscriber, and then having the audacity to ***** and moan here when CCP brings the prices more inline...

Virtuozzo
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2008.05.22 20:19:00 - [218]
 

Originally by: Johnathan Walker
I rather enjoy the flexibility of purchasing a 30-day code or a 90-day code when I wish to customize the length of time my account(s) are active.


Doh, that's the thing. No more account hopping between long skills, but more continuous subscriber behaviour. Your flexibility cuts into their projections.

Daelin Blackleaf
White Rose Society
Posted - 2008.05.22 20:23:00 - [219]
 

We're losing sight of the primary issue here.

Simplifying the ETC reseller program does not mean increasing the price.

I appreciate honesty, I do not appreciate having a price hike attempt to sneak past me in a way that belittles my intelligence.

Shakuul
Caldari
RuffRyders
Axiom Empire
Posted - 2008.05.22 20:34:00 - [220]
 

Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
We're losing sight of the primary issue here.

Simplifying the ETC reseller program does not mean increasing the price.

I appreciate honesty, I do not appreciate having a price hike attempt to sneak past me in a way that belittles my intelligence.


Why were ETC resellers ever a problem? As long as they don't scam (which they shouldn't...they rely on repeat business) they provide a steady supply of GTCs. I don't see how they hurt anyone...they ensure there isn't a crazy GTC shortage like there is now...because stupid sellers refuse to sell at the market price and instead foolishly sell at below market...so you have to spend ALL DAY camping the timecodes forums to get a GTC.

I don't see how there was anything sneaky here. They are giving you less time for slightly more money, so its an obvious price hike.

Alara Giovarez
Intergalactic Peace Organization
Quantum Star Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.22 20:37:00 - [221]
 

Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
We're losing sight of the primary issue here.

Simplifying the ETC reseller program does not mean increasing the price.

I appreciate honesty, I do not appreciate having a price hike attempt to sneak past me in a way that belittles my intelligence.


Agreed, exactly that is the point. I liked cheap $-GTC's, but hey, I can see CCP will not like it and up the prices. If the post had contained an addition along the lines of

"At the same time, due to the fact that the dollar lost much value in the last years and the fact many customers from all countries buy GTCs, we need to raise the price to mirror those changes."

all would have been well. But the sneaking and belitteling our intelligence bit is simply insulting, and that is why I personally am quite upset about this.

000Hunter000
Gallente
Missiles 'R' Us
Posted - 2008.05.22 20:38:00 - [222]
 

And as is ccp's tradition, 8 pages of posts and ccp comments are a beacon of absence as usual... well we'll see what happens when Jumpgate Evolution hits the stores.

Shakuul
Caldari
RuffRyders
Axiom Empire
Posted - 2008.05.22 20:42:00 - [223]
 

Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Prices rises that only affect people who are already getting the game for cheap nobhead... Rolling Eyes

Oh and lets just be clear, those playing the GTC game to avoid VAT (tax evasion 4tw eh? Rolling Eyes) will still be getting the game cheap compared to the subscribers...

So no, I don't give a damn how they introduced the rises, only that muppets whining here now, were getting it cheap and have the audacity to complain the playing field is getting levelled...


If anyone was previously paying for the game in Euros (via the recurring credit card sub method), they are either 1) stupid or 2) lazy. They are paying more for something when for the same amount of effort (buying GTCs for USD) they could get it for less.

People are complaining because many people support a 3rd or 4th or 5th account with GTCs. Now this will be 50% more expensive. This is a pretty big change. I don't know why you are so offended when people complain about rising prices....wouldn't you get annoyed if EVE changed its monthly fee from 15/month to 22.50/month?

Aclyn Seriy
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2008.05.22 20:43:00 - [224]
 

Edited by: Aclyn Seriy on 22/05/2008 20:45:22
ignore me. Im just annoyed at being forced to pay and play for the amount of time that CCP see's fit, rather than me, the customer. what do i know though eh? its only the customers that pay your wages

Lt Widowmaker
Posted - 2008.05.22 20:44:00 - [225]
 

It isn't CCP's fault that the Dollar hit the fan. Now EVE costs about the same as the other monthly subscription games. (Please for gods sake use this newly found $£€ to pay for new servers or something to counter the lag).

I have to admit though that the timing isn't great on CCP's part, as I for one was planning to start a new FW account, but obviously I wasn't expecting to be paying for my current 2 account and another, making 3 accounts that would cost the same as 4 previously. Also, just thought I’d mention also that CCP should really open up maestro purchasing system, as I know a lot of people cannot use the EVE store because of this limitation, (no strategic map makes me a saaad panda). This may get more cash coming your way.

PS. with this extra money, maybe CCP could pay for more GMs to make an appearance in threads like this, stating the facts and counter arguing...you know to defend themselves. Otherwise the community will just get angry and circle jerk Neutral

Johnny Gurkha
Silver Snake Enterprise
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2008.05.22 20:44:00 - [226]
 

From a player perspective there is nothing wrong with 30 or 90 day ones as they stand, I buy a 30 day when I'm short of cash and a 90 day when I'm ok... a 60 day card as the previous poster pointed out is less time for more money. I'm scrapping my 3rd account immediately, I can live with low SP alt's on the scrapheap and my 2nd accounts main will be getting sold within the next month or two - I'll live with a Reaper pilot for scouting... not often I say this but screw you CCP - your game isn't THAT good Evil or Very Mad

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2008.05.22 20:50:00 - [227]
 

The average cost of the computer people are playing on is at least 1000 dollar. And a few dollars extra per month is too much for you to handle?

I dont like it either. I also dont like they removed 90 day GTC (never used 30 day personally). I also dont want to pay more for the same.
But I am not acting like a little child and whining about it like the world ended.

If you have to quit an account because you cant afford it with higher prices, you should have done that a long time ago because then you are using way too much of your money on a MMORPG.
If you quit an account because you just dont like it, you are making empty threats because you wont quit your account.

Gabriel Karade
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2008.05.22 20:50:00 - [228]
 

Originally by: Shakuul
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Prices rises that only affect people who are already getting the game for cheap nobhead... Rolling Eyes

Oh and lets just be clear, those playing the GTC game to avoid VAT (tax evasion 4tw eh? Rolling Eyes) will still be getting the game cheap compared to the subscribers...

So no, I don't give a damn how they introduced the rises, only that muppets whining here now, were getting it cheap and have the audacity to complain the playing field is getting levelled...


If anyone was previously paying for the game in Euros (via the recurring credit card sub method), they are either 1) stupid or 2) lazy. They are paying more for something when for the same amount of effort (buying GTCs for USD) they could get it for less.

People are complaining because many people support a 3rd or 4th or 5th account with GTCs. Now this will be 50% more expensive. This is a pretty big change. I don't know why you are so offended when people complain about rising prices....wouldn't you get annoyed if EVE changed its monthly fee from 15/month to 22.50/month?
Or 3) honest.

Dress it up all you want, it's playing the system to avoid VAT, so I don't see how people have a leg to stand on complaining about this loop-hole being closed.

Gamer4liff
Caldari
Metalworks
Majesta Empire
Posted - 2008.05.22 21:01:00 - [229]
 

Edited by: Gamer4liff on 22/05/2008 21:08:00
I only buy 90 day cards, so I'm slightly annoyed that it will take more transactions now.

EDIT: Going by the Shattered Crystal prices it appears they are indeed charging us who buy 90 day GTCs (with isk) more than before with this new system, how annoying!

Brzhk
Posted - 2008.05.22 21:10:00 - [230]
 

looks like CCP makes a wrong asumption : every one has only one account so we will win more money..

weak dollar didn't made me pay less: it made me able to afford multiple accounts.

i will have to close some of them now, as a lot of other ppl i guess :/

Daelin Blackleaf
White Rose Society
Posted - 2008.05.22 21:10:00 - [231]
 

Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 22/05/2008 21:11:09
Originally by: Shakuul
I don't see how there was anything sneaky here. They are giving you less time for slightly more money, so its an obvious price hike.


"To simplify the ETC reseller program and attune our product offerings with industry standards, CCP will introduce new 60-day EVE Time Codes (ETC) and Game Time Cards (GTC)"

!=

"For reasons X, Y, and Z we are increasing ETC and GTC prices"

No matter how valid reasons X, Y, and Z may be they haven't given them. Worse they have used what could be described as "flowery jargon" to cover it in a way that would make any Omni Consumer Products exec proud.

ghost st
Posted - 2008.05.22 21:15:00 - [232]
 

I am going to have to decide if i want to keep my eve sub going. 30d gtcs worked fine for me because sometime i an unable to play the game. And i could just pay for the months i could actually play.

Paying a little extra isalright, the thing i dont like about it is that its forcing me to buy 2 months worth of time when i usually only play 1. ( I am a truck driver and i spend about every other month on the road, so dont have time play eve) or at least give us the option to suspend the account for a month so our time isnt ticking away while we cant play

Fallorn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.05.22 21:16:00 - [233]
 

Originally by: ghost st
I am going to have to decide if i want to keep my eve sub going. 30d gtcs worked fine for me because sometime i an unable to play the game. And i could just pay for the months i could actually play.

Paying a little extra isalright, the thing i dont like about it is that its forcing me to buy 2 months worth of time when i usually only play 1. ( I am a truck driver and i spend about every other month on the road, so dont have time play eve) or at least give us the option to suspend the account for a month so our time isnt ticking away while we cant play

You must get lots of lvl 5 skills done.

Bloody Rabbit
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.05.22 21:31:00 - [234]
 

Originally by: Mystri
tldr, sorry if someone has already posted a breakdown.

ISK-EUR= ISK devalued by 38.1% in the past year (1 ISK-->€0.008)
ISK-USD= ISK devalued by 17% in the past year (1 ISK-->$0.013)
USD-EUR= USD devalued by 17.5% in the past year (€1-->$0.634)

European subs ~36% approx.
US subs 37%



Rough calculations...

European subs:

200,000 x 36% = 72,000 subs x €14.95 = €1,076,400 p/m x 12 months = €12,916,800 per annum
  • --( x $1.5755)--> $20,350,418 per annum

  • --( x 115.04 ISK)--> 1,485,948,672 ISK per annum


US subs:

200,000 x 37% = 74,000 subs x $14.95 = $1,106,300 p/m x 12 months = $13,275,600 per annum
  • --( x €0.634)--> €8,416,730 per annum

  • --( x 73.01 ISK)--> 969,251,556 ISK per annum


Even though there are more subscriptions (in this rough calculation) from the US, CCP would lose ½ billion ISK compared to the European subscriptions. If a portion of the current European subscribers are using GTC's paid in USD, then income would be further reduced. Remember, CCP operate out of Iceland and their income is in (converted) ISK.

The best option would be to stop more hemorrhaging of income through Euro --> USD GTC sales by increasing GTC USD price. CCP would also need to increase the number of subscriptions to offset any ISK devaluation. No, i'm not an economist, but i'm sure one will come along a shoot me down. Very Happy

/puts box of crayons away



Such a good post and no one is talking about it.

I am happy as I pay in US dollars and am getting sick of all the training people do with off-lined accounts. Also less people means less lag Very Happy

Shakuul
Caldari
RuffRyders
Axiom Empire
Posted - 2008.05.22 21:38:00 - [235]
 

Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Or 3) honest.
Dress it up all you want, it's playing the system to avoid VAT, so I don't see how people have a leg to stand on complaining about this loop-hole being closed.


CCP isn't closing a VAT loophole, they are just increasing the USD price of tax dollars. I don't see how voluntarily giving more money to your government when you aren't legally obligated to makes you "honest."

Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf

...
No matter how valid reasons X, Y, and Z may be they haven't given them. Worse they have used what could be described as "flowery jargon" to cover it in a way that would make any Omni Consumer Products exec proud.


Ah, thats what you meant. Yeah I guess they did dress it up a lot.

Originally by: Bloody Rabbit

...



Such a good post and no one is talking about it.

I am happy as I pay in US dollars and am getting sick of all the training people do with off-lined accounts. Also less people means less lag Very Happy


It's an excellent explanation of the business reasons CCP has to increase prices, people are just complaining that they have to pay more.

Gamer4liff
Caldari
Metalworks
Majesta Empire
Posted - 2008.05.22 21:39:00 - [236]
 

Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 22/05/2008 21:11:09
Originally by: Shakuul
I don't see how there was anything sneaky here. They are giving you less time for slightly more money, so its an obvious price hike.


"To simplify the ETC reseller program and attune our product offerings with industry standards, CCP will introduce new 60-day EVE Time Codes (ETC) and Game Time Cards (GTC)"

!=

"For reasons X, Y, and Z we are increasing ETC and GTC prices"


So CCP, how much did it cost to have Hillery Clinton write this press release?

Solsson
Posted - 2008.05.22 21:43:00 - [237]
 

This argument over the price increase is lame.

(1) If you're going to quit, then just do so, and don't tell us that you are going to.
(2) This has happened with other MMO's before such as Planetside

The main concern I have is that with 30 days, I could take a few days break and resubscribe. I'm still going to play this game as far as I know, but I'm just going to be out of more money if half way into the subscription I find I am no longer interested in EVE.

Stakhanov
Metafarmers
MeatSausage EXPRESS
Posted - 2008.05.22 21:46:00 - [238]
 

Defenders of the GTC system typically say "at least the money goes to CCP"
Yes indeed. So why are you complaining now ? YARRRR!!

Oh wait , it's getting too expensive ? Why do you care if you're using ISK to pay for your accounts... makes no sense to threaten closing them.

Unless you're selling GTCs for ISK. Must be frustrating to see the gap between legal and illegal ISK prices widen even more. Tempted to directly buy ISK , but you fear the banstick and losing your precious investments. Time to whine on the forums , eh ? Twisted Evil

Faye Valerii
Caldari
Exeunt Omnes
Posted - 2008.05.22 22:01:00 - [239]
 

CCP isn't raising prices, it's dollar-types who've been paying less and less... Don't forget CCP is an Icelandic company, and most of their costs are paid in krφner (wages) and pounds (datacenter is in London). Compared to those currencies the dollar is worth crap these days.

And yeah, as a savvy Euro I've been using the strength of my currency to buy GTC's in dollars, thus saving a not totally unnoticable amount of money.

So Americans, go take a **** on Alan Greenspan and his successor : )

Saju Somtaaw
Kagan-Kincaid Enterprises
Posted - 2008.05.22 22:02:00 - [240]
 

Originally by: Akelorian
Originally by: Fallorn
Our government blows right now sure but then again your's wouldn't exist if it wasn't for us in WW2. That and a massive amount of people despise of current government look at the approval ratings.


Eh? Perhaps you should read up on who won that war, and why the American's decided to fight in it, (Pearl Harbour Maybe?) The Main country's that fought in WWII were Canada/Russia/England, USA didn't want to help so the Japanese persuaded them, so don't say if it wasn't for us you wouldn't have a country. Glad your proud that you guys dropped two bombs and murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent men women and children.

Ignorant American


Heres an interesting historical tidbit for you, a little piece of legisation called the Land Lease Act provided warships, planes, and other assorted war material to GB and Russia. Also, quite a few American pilots helped both the British and the Chinese before we got dragged into the war.

On the topic at hand, I pay mainly with GTCs as they are easier to factor into my budget as a college student. While I don't like the change I'll probably be keeping both my counts subscribed, though I might try and grab a pair of 90days for em before they run out.


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