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Taua Roqa
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:05:00 - [181]
 

Originally by: Bethesda Vortarhiat
Originally by: Gone'Postal
Originally by: Fallorn
Our government blows right now sure but then again your's wouldn't exist if it wasn't for us in WW2.


lifes a ***** ain't it, BTW Hows Vietnam, I heard you didn't do so well in that one.

If you want to bring RL into this then I don't think the good old US of A has a leg to stand on, Unless it's Clintons middle one.


Ask the French, they were there before us... and for Iraq, ask the British, they were there before us too.



heh we invented iraq.


welp.

Scopa Outta
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:08:00 - [182]
 

What I find most amusing here is all this chatter about fairness... the very GAME we play isn't even 'fair', and yet everyone expects real life to somehow magically be fair? You people really are living in a dreamworld... I expected better of eve players... but then again maybe this is only the vocal minority that the rest of us would be better off without anyway...

Poba
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:09:00 - [183]
 

Edited by: Poba on 22/05/2008 19:09:13
LOL ok i have to get one more post in b4 this off topic thread gets locked
Laughing

seriously... people are talking about vietnam and Afgan weapons... this thread is about the change in price of time cards...good thing ppl can read and understand the topic Rolling Eyes

Jack Gilligan
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:09:00 - [184]
 

One wonders what the dollar would do vs the euro if the US taxpayer didn't by and large pay for the Continent's defense? That's an enormous drain on our economy. Why should we still do it anyway, it's not like anyone appreciates it. I wish my country would look after itself only for a change.




Taua Roqa
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:10:00 - [185]
 

Originally by: Scopa Outta
What I find most amusing here is all this chatter about fairness... the very GAME we play isn't even 'fair', and yet everyone expects real life to somehow magically be fair? You people really are living in a dreamworld... I expected better of eve players... but then again maybe this is only the vocal minority that the rest of us would be better off without anyway...



it's a bit of a sensitive issue imho, since some people really do live to a very tight budget...and am sure many of us have been there.


Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:15:00 - [186]
 

Edited by: Malcanis on 22/05/2008 19:16:45
Originally by: Jack Gilligan
One wonders what the dollar would do vs the euro if the US taxpayer didn't by and large pay for the Continent's defense? That's an enormous drain on our economy. Why should we still do it anyway, it's not like anyone appreciates it. I wish my country would look after itself only for a change.




Rolling Eyes

Edit: facts.

Rorin Cutter
Caldari
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:20:00 - [187]
 

this is funny, they just locked all the other on topic threads about ccp and the 30 day gtc change, and threw us into the offtopic thread:-P

bad move ccp, let us keep buying our 30 gtc!!

Pistonbroke
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:20:00 - [188]
 

I don't think there can be any denying that the 35% increase is a bit of a kick in the pants, whether or not you are in the US.

I liked one of the other posters suggestion that as a European company, they should seek payment in Euros, wherever the buyer is purchasing from - this would mean that their income is stabilized, the reason that many players started paying in US bucks was because it offered better value. Saying that it's normalized it against Eurocosts does not mean that Euro players are unaffected.

On a related, but slightly different subject, I suspect that the 'rationalization' to 60 day GTCs has more to do with people abusing "account expired" 30 day skill training than it has to do with industry standards.

I'll certainly drop an account now.... nevertheless CCP will have the last laugh as I pay to have the trained character on it moved to my main account.

Embarassed

Sarin Adler
Caldari
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:22:00 - [189]
 

About the price rise, forget it. They probably have studied how many accounts will be closed and the exchange it's worth it: won't happen. Also putting GTC resellers out of game means more money for them, too.

You can cry loud, it's your right, but you won't effect this is anyway, so you choose how to lose yourtime.

Divad Ginleek
Gallente
New Eden Logistics and Trade.
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:22:00 - [190]
 

::is glad he paid 6 months in advance with CC::

Greenbolt
Minmatar
The Suicide Kings
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:23:00 - [191]
 

Ill go back on topic to and add my voice.

Want to change prices? Ok that sucks but thats real world for ya..

I can even see streamlining from
30,50,90,100 (the 4 currently available)
to 30,60,90

but to remove options from customers

ehh..sux.
Bad Idea. As a consumer I want more options..not less.

(Imagine when they get the bug to say instead of subscribing in 30d,60d,1 year intervals etc on pay by credit card they say ok..you can only pay 60 days at a time..that should be intresting response too).

Jack Gilligan
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:24:00 - [192]
 

Originally by: Sarin Adler
About the price rise, forget it. They probably have studied how many accounts will be closed and the exchange it's worth it: won't happen. Also putting GTC resellers out of game means more money for them, too.

You can cry loud, it's your right, but you won't effect this is anyway, so you choose how to lose yourtime.


One wonders if this is their lag "solution".

Quaxtl
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:26:00 - [193]
 

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=777866

Go here YARRRR!!and register your disgruntlment.

And for the record, when it comes to WW2 and 'saving governments' you dont have a leg to stand on Razz

Pistonbroke
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:28:00 - [194]
 

Originally by: Jack Gilligan

One wonders if this is their lag "solution".



If they have finally accepted that they can't do it with improved coding, improved software, elimination of bookmarks, cans and other such initiatives, then yeah, it should help.
Laughing

Ballistic CEO
Looking For Fun Corp
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:29:00 - [195]
 

Raise price, keep 30, 60 and 90 day options then stop skills training on accounts with expired subs.

seems pretty straightforward to me.

Una D
Ex Coelis
The Bantam Menace
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:34:00 - [196]
 

Originally by: Ballistic CEO
Raise price, keep 30, 60 and 90 day options then stop skills training on accounts with expired subs.

seems pretty straightforward to me.


Problem with this is that the end result will be higher prices in € too. And all due to weak dollar compared to euro... It's just a grab for more money and nothing else. An insulting grab for money at that.

Akelorian
Caldari
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:37:00 - [197]
 

Originally by: Fallorn
Our government blows right now sure but then again your's wouldn't exist if it wasn't for us in WW2. That and a massive amount of people despise of current government look at the approval ratings.


Eh? Perhaps you should read up on who won that war, and why the American's decided to fight in it, (Pearl Harbour Maybe?) The Main country's that fought in WWII were Canada/Russia/England, USA didn't want to help so the Japanese persuaded them, so don't say if it wasn't for us you wouldn't have a country. Glad your proud that you guys dropped two bombs and murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent men women and children.

Ignorant American

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:43:00 - [198]
 

Originally by: Akelorian
Originally by: Fallorn
Our government blows right now sure but then again your's wouldn't exist if it wasn't for us in WW2. That and a massive amount of people despise of current government look at the approval ratings.


Eh? Perhaps you should read up on who won that war, and why the American's decided to fight in it, (Pearl Harbour Maybe?) The Main country's that fought in WWII were Canada/Russia/England, USA didn't want to help so the Japanese persuaded them, so don't say if it wasn't for us you wouldn't have a country. Glad your proud that you guys dropped two bombs and murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent men women and children.

Ignorant American


Your post was even more ignorant than his. Please keep this nonsense out of this forum.

Natsume Chidori
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:47:00 - [199]
 

Originally by: Una D
Originally by: Ballistic CEO
Raise price, keep 30, 60 and 90 day options then stop skills training on accounts with expired subs.

seems pretty straightforward to me.


Problem with this is that the end result will be higher prices in too. And all due to weak dollar compared to euro... It's just a grab for more money and nothing else. An insulting grab for money at that.

You mean a grab for the same money before the dollar slump? Laughing

Akelorian
Caldari
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:48:00 - [200]
 

Originally by: Malcanis

Your post was even more ignorant than his. Please keep this nonsense out of this forum.


Least mine was more fact driven then his :)

Also would like to say keep 30/90d Cards, implement the 60 days, and increase the price accordingly so 90d is no longer $38, :)

TillyTee
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:48:00 - [201]
 

Hey guys don't worry, all the money will be used to fund CCP's new MMO that noone gives a crap about

Captain Detech
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:48:00 - [202]
 

Edited by: Captain Detech on 22/05/2008 19:48:48
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Akelorian
Originally by: Fallorn
Our government blows right now sure but then again your's wouldn't exist if it wasn't for us in WW2. That and a massive amount of people despise of current government look at the approval ratings.


Eh? Perhaps you should read up on who won that war, and why the American's decided to fight in it, (Pearl Harbour Maybe?) The Main country's that fought in WWII were Canada/Russia/England, USA didn't want to help so the Japanese persuaded them, so don't say if it wasn't for us you wouldn't have a country. Glad your proud that you guys dropped two bombs and murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent men women and children.

Ignorant American


Your post was even more ignorant than his. Please keep this nonsense out of this forum.


True, but theres something to be said for a country sitting by and watching for 3 years, and I'm not just talking about the fighting...

Anyhow on topic, bad choice that will alienate a lot of players and scare off potential subscribers.

Bonds Visio
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:53:00 - [203]
 

I hate to ask, but did WoW prices go up or can I still play that for $15 a month? Entertainment is entertainment. Doesn't really matter what company provides it.

Is Eve better than WoW? Of course. Is it cheaper? Now it is, yes (as far as GTCs are concerned).

The ultimate question for everyone should be, are you getting what you pay for? Is the extra $2.50 a month that Eve costs over WoW worth it to you?

HellSpeed
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2008.05.22 20:01:00 - [204]
 

Originally by: Red Skelton
Dont care if it costs more. I do want 30 or 90 day choices, however.

R0ot
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.05.22 20:01:00 - [205]
 

Well ill be closing two accounts over this. Horrible decision CCP

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2008.05.22 20:04:00 - [206]
 

@r00t, proof or stfu.

Or stfu anyway.

Civilii
Posted - 2008.05.22 20:05:00 - [207]
 

Originally by: Bonds Visio
The ultimate question for everyone should be, are you getting what you pay for? Is the extra $2.50 a month that Eve costs over WoW worth it to you?


Hell yes. I'm surprised to see so many people claiming to cancel accounts. I suspect it is a knee jerk reaction and nothing will come of it...

Dataios
Posted - 2008.05.22 20:05:00 - [208]
 

Has it occurred to anyone that world economics is not even remotely an issue? They have costs in yuan, euros, isk, and usd, so saying that all of a sudden the dollar is worth less doesn't really hold water because now their usd-denominated expenses are also less. True, maybe the relative magnitudes of the costs and revenues in various currencies don't match up perfectly (that is, maybe more revenue is dollar denominated than expenses). In all likelihood, ccp has higher costs in china than they have revenue, so pointing at any one country's economy and saying that's why my gtc price has gone up is incredibly narrow minded and simplistic. That these things happen is the very reason multinationals diversify their interests across multiple economies and currencies...

In a nutshell, international economics is never about just one country.. it's about the relationship between countries, so it could just as easily be a strong-euro policy on the part of the ECB as it is a weak-dollar policy on the part of the US Federal Reserve. The reality is that it's likely a combination of both, as the major world central banks do actually work together.

I'm inclined to believe that the change was motivated by people letting their gtc-fueled accounts lapse while training super long level 5's and switching to an alt in the interim.. As an example, CCP loses roughly $15 +/- each time someone does this to train a BS skill from 4 to 5. I'm sure it adds up. So it makes sense to me to add a "surcharge" to the cost of a GTC, to try to recover this lost revenue (lost because a service, even if pared down compared to an active account, is still being provided).

I would be very surprised if this was followed by a change in the CC subscription rates. And if there isn't a change to CC subscription rates, then all those people saying this is due to international economics will have been proven wrong. The problem with doing so is that $15 is the currently market rate for an MMO.. true, someone needs to be the first to forge ahead, but during a time of economic hardship is not likely to be a wise time to do so (putting gas in my car, which is now about $60-$65/tank or the equivalent of about 8 eve subscriptions per month, comes before eve...).

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2008.05.22 20:08:00 - [209]
 

Dollar expenses of CCP are far less then other currencies...

Mystri
Posted - 2008.05.22 20:09:00 - [210]
 

tldr, sorry if someone has already posted a breakdown.

ISK-EUR= ISK devalued by 38.1% in the past year (1 ISK-->0.008)
ISK-USD= ISK devalued by 17% in the past year (1 ISK-->$0.013)
USD-EUR= USD devalued by 17.5% in the past year (1-->$0.634)

European subs ~36% approx.
US subs 37%



Rough calculations...

European subs:

200,000 x 36% = 72,000 subs x 14.95 = 1,076,400 p/m x 12 months = 12,916,800 per annum
  • --( x $1.5755)--> $20,350,418 per annum

  • --( x 115.04 ISK)--> 1,485,948,672 ISK per annum


US subs:

200,000 x 37% = 74,000 subs x $14.95 = $1,106,300 p/m x 12 months = $13,275,600 per annum
  • --( x 0.634)--> 8,416,730 per annum

  • --( x 73.01 ISK)--> 969,251,556 ISK per annum


Even though there are more subscriptions (in this rough calculation) from the US, CCP would lose billion ISK compared to the European subscriptions. If a portion of the current European subscribers are using GTC's paid in USD, then income would be further reduced. Remember, CCP operate out of Iceland and their income is in (converted) ISK.

The best option would be to stop more hemorrhaging of income through Euro --> USD GTC sales by increasing GTC USD price. CCP would also need to increase the number of subscriptions to offset any ISK devaluation. No, i'm not an economist, but i'm sure one will come along a shoot me down. Very Happy

/puts box of crayons away


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