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Cunny Funt
Posted - 2008.05.24 07:09:00 - [571]
 

CCP should crack down on the macro-players devalueing ISK and buying GTC's with macro money...

xena zena
The Money Shot Inc.
Posted - 2008.05.24 07:27:00 - [572]
 

Edited by: xena zena on 24/05/2008 07:34:18
If this change goes into effect, I have friends that without any doubt 100% will close all their accounts because it will limit how they play the game too much. And one has 5 accounts. This is beyond the most hurtful decision I've ever seen CCP make, please appeal to the community and resend this decision!

And anyone who hasn't yet, voice your support in this thread:

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=777866

Johnny Gurkha
Silver Snake Enterprise
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2008.05.24 07:34:00 - [573]
 

Originally by: xena zena
If this change goes into affect, I have friends that without any doubt 100% will close all their accounts because it will limit how they play the game too much. And one has 5 accounts. This is beyond the most hurtful decision I've ever seen CCP make, please appeal to the community and resend this decision!

And anyone who hasn't yet, voice your support in this thread:

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=777866


One 20 page thread is too much for my sore hangover head, 2 20 page threads and I think I'd have a "Scanners" moment....

xena zena
The Money Shot Inc.
Posted - 2008.05.24 07:39:00 - [574]
 

The linked thread is just the voting thread to force the CSM members to bring this to the table at their meeting where CCP would have to acknowledge it. It's a metric for CCP to see the actual number of accounts that read these forms and care enough to post their opposition to the change. Posting a simple "/signed" and checking the "I support this thread" checkbox is all you need to do in that thread, not much reading since 99% of the posts are exactly that.

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=777866

Supporting that thread with a support post is IMPORTANT.

Giyther
Posted - 2008.05.24 07:41:00 - [575]
 

I have to agree with everyone that this a terrible idea. I can almost understand a small price increase but to get rid of the 30 day time code and the 90 day time code is terrible.

Seetesh
Caldari
The Resident Haunting
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2008.05.24 07:45:00 - [576]
 

They always seem to dodge around it they dont understand we want the 30days and 90days back and most are willing to pay the little extra to cover the costs just for the felxability it offers us.

xena zena
The Money Shot Inc.
Posted - 2008.05.24 07:50:00 - [577]
 

Not a lot of people care about the price increase, if ccp justifies that it has to be done because they loose to much money on it or whatever, its not the price, its the removal of options. Not everyone wants to *HAVE* to extend their account 60 days, theres plenty of GOOD reasons why you only want to play 30 days at a time. But with the higher costs it does hurt those who can only play via GTC's and not credit card.

If the reason is that too many EURO's are using GTC's bought with USD, instead of paying the monthly credit card fee in EUROS which is a fair bit more pricey, and ccp is just trying to recover that perceived loss of income... then it's probably their own fault for setting the fee the same in USD as EURO when they know darn well that the two currencies are not equal in value.
Then if thats the reason for these changes and price increases then I think its utter BS. And CCP should be called out on that. If its legitimate increased overhead with the creation and sale and commission to the sellers, then fine. If its trying to get some extra buck out of those trying to circumvent the USD:EURO difference, then shame on them.



Brother Welcome
Amarr
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2008.05.24 07:56:00 - [578]
 

It might be to do with administration or other fixed overheads such as transaction fees, which make it more desirable to sell a minimum value unit (i.e. 60 rather than 30), but that doesn't explain removing 90-day codes.

Anyone who thinks it's to do with forex is just mistaken. That might cause a price adjustment, but wouldn't cause removal of options.

My guess is with those who wonder whether the 30-day codes weren't being 'abused' by second account holders to level toons, perhaps with a view to selling them on the Character Bazaar. I could care less about any theoretical advantage to the playes, but over time it would have a devaluing effect on time-codes.

I suspect what happened is 30-day codes started to seem unattractive, and having 60-day and 90-day codes seems not much better than simplifying to 60, which would save administration hassles.

-BW





xena zena
The Money Shot Inc.
Posted - 2008.05.24 08:00:00 - [579]
 

Any high level rich player you're referring too would buy 90-day gtc's more economical, because any toon they'd want to level up to sell would take a VERY long time to skill. Plus I doubt theres a huge amount of people that skill characters to sell them for isk, I kinda think generally you get LESS isk out of a character then what the GTC's would of cost you to skill it.. *shrug*, even if not other investments over that time with those isks would of yielded much more isk too..

I'm leaning toward punish and recover more money from people buying GTC's for USD instead of paying the EURO fee... *shrug*

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2008.05.24 08:00:00 - [580]
 

Edited by: Tonto Auri on 24/05/2008 08:01:12
Originally by: CCP RyanD
We are constantly working on improving our basic, direct payment services as well. Recently we have integrated options which allow, or will soon allow, people without credit cards to use those systems.


It is either obvious lie or poor try to calm down subscribers.
Like that promise to "deal with lags", which made years ago. (And lags is still with us...)

Even if your words are truth, that must be implemented before any other changes, if you, at least, do not want to ever see topics like this.

Quote:
We prefer that our customers use our direct-bill services for a number of reasons. The most important is that using that system allows us to collect the full price of the subscriptions. Our Time Code systems use a reseller network, and they receive a discount from the suggested price of the Time Codes when they purchase them in bulk This discount is how they make a profit selling the codes to the public, but it means that Time Codes are a less profitable way for us to do business with our customers.


If it is another processing crap like PayByCash, I'll just forget my 2 accounts for a while.

Let me explain some basics.
Monts ago it was a choice to pay more or less frequently for me, depends on my workload and private lifetime.
With the introduction of solo pwnmobiles (read: heavy interdictors), i'm strictly stuck in highsec, without ability to step into lowsec without beeing shredded to dust, because just every pirate now flying Onyx or Broadsword. That's ok, I can live with it, even if this life isn't good. Just less enjoyable. First.
Now I'm forced to pay more and for longer periods, where I know i will not be using even half of the time for playing. (i mean, half of the 2-4h everyday playtime, normal for most of adult playerbase). Second.
I have no option to pay for game, other than GTC - I do not see a credit card as affordable option for my budget - it's plainly useless and extremely expensive for me, most of my income are "virtual" electronic currency, exceptionally flexibe for me. While PayByCash receiving payments in my preferred currency, they adding crazy tax over the price, basically making it costs the same as future ETC (like $18.5/month), requesting HUGE amount of my private information that I do not want to be disclosed to anyone, and typically working with the needed currency only by great promise. (I've had long discussion with their support girl that does not know anything about internet and payment processing at all Confused ) So, back to GTC/ETC. I don't mind to pay more, but not THAT more. $35 for the month (or less) of playing... That's third.
You're counting? 3 cases to cancel account. Your post was fourth one.
Right now I'm seriously thinking about stopping to pay for the service, that does not progressing in ages. Yes, that's EVE. You're providing service, that offering major changing... in look, but never changed in feel. It feels like one solid lag. Because it is one solid lag. Fifth one.

P.S.
This post were cost me $15 that I will not be able to spend for food in next week, basically put me on "bread and water" diet. As I said, I can live with it. Even if life sometimes isn't enjoyable. But when "sometimes" starts trying to tends to be "every time", I'll take serious steps to make right considerations.

Brother Welcome
Amarr
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2008.05.24 08:01:00 - [581]
 

Edited by: Brother Welcome on 24/05/2008 08:03:32
Originally by: xena zena
Any high level rich player you're referring too would buy 90-day gtc's more economical, because any toon they'd want to level up to sell would take a VERY long time to skill. Plus I doubt theres a huge amount of people that skill characters to sell them for isk, I kinda think generally you get LESS isk out of a character then what the GTC's would of cost you to skill it.. *shrug*, even if not other investments over that time with those isks would of yielded much more isk too..

I'm leaning toward punish and recover more money from people buying GTC's for USD instead of paying the EURO fee... *shrug*


Gosh you really didn't understand my post at all, did you? Toon-levelling is done by every so often buying a 30-day code and setting long skills in training.

Go back to page 19 and read CCP's response. I read it after I posted, but I nearly hit the nail on the head.

BW


xena zena
The Money Shot Inc.
Posted - 2008.05.24 08:18:00 - [582]
 

Edited by: xena zena on 24/05/2008 08:21:57
Originally by: Brother Welcome
Gosh you really didn't understand my post at all, did you? Toon-levelling is done by every so often buying a 30-day code and setting long skills in training.

Go back to page 19 and read CCP's response. I read it after I posted, but I nearly hit the nail on the head.

BW




Ok after reading that I get the impression:

1. They're tired of people circumventing the E14.95 (or $23.60 at current exchange rate), heck thats $8.65 lost per 30 days.
2. The bulk sell price of less then $14.95 to the resellers means they loose even more per 30 days!

So the solution is, make it painful by having to pay for 60 days upfront, and jack the price up! Hoping this drives more people to just direct-pay the additional 157.8% on their credit cards.

By trying to justify that they're doing it because Blizzard only sells 60 day GTC's is kinda silly. Since what else do they do thats industry-standard set by blizzard? Not pricing, obviously, not anything else I've ever noticed, so why this now?

It's all about the money. IF they can force the euros to direct pay in EUROS, heck thats 57% more income right there, win win, right? Rolling Eyes

Lets ignore all the little folk that aren't doing it to circumvent the exchange rate, or that can only maintain their alts and number of accounts through buying via isk, lets not worry about hurting them. The loss of those accounts won't effect the bottom line as much? RIGHT?

Kaian Voskhod
Posted - 2008.05.24 08:45:00 - [583]
 

I'm TIRED of CCP and his game EVE

Are they solving lag probz ? -> NO !

Are they solving macroers ruining economy ? -> NO !

Are they solving nano***s ? -> NO !

What are they doing?

Well,

They are adding more fun for "the wow player" ... with ambulation.

They are adding things we don't need, like factionnal warfare Laughing

They are increasing their prices up to 33% more ugh

They are lyars, avoiding to answer the good questions and hiding the truth behind empty words.


I begin to be tired of this game BECAUSE of this company


Locii
Posted - 2008.05.24 08:47:00 - [584]
 

Edited by: Locii on 24/05/2008 08:48:29
i have said earlier in this taht my gf and me maintain 6 accounts between us. 3 full time accounts and 3 indusrty guys we activate to mine and haul as we need them.

afetr speaking to her about this 30% price and the scraping of the 30day time codes we use for these accounts, we will me paying teh one off fee to merge them with our main. so ccp we were paying you £100 x 3 per year for these accounts, your now gonnna be getting 1 x 60 euro payment..
nice work for saving me cash in the long run ccp...

xena zena
The Money Shot Inc.
Posted - 2008.05.24 08:49:00 - [585]
 

I don't understand why Europeans have to pay 57% more then Americans? I suspect quite ALOT of them have been just using GTC's to circumvent this, thus this change. I still don't understand the direct $14.95/E14.95. it doesn't seem even REMOTELY fair considering the great difference in currency exchange rates. If the majority of the players don't want to pay 57% more with direct-pay jsut because of the exchange rate, then why not appease them, take a little less profit, and not risk ****ing off potentially a vast amount of your customers?

Mistress Ingrid
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
Posted - 2008.05.24 08:49:00 - [586]
 

Iceland's economy in trouble? Could this be why they are raising prices?


http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article4801.html

Julius Kashmir
Posted - 2008.05.24 09:15:00 - [587]
 

Originally by: Val Vympel
Originally by: Eevul Rabbite
The answer is simple. 3. Do what most companies do and take the effects of weak dollar on yourself, without alienating any customer groups. In other words, adjust the prices to industry standards...

I know it's not going to happen though, because it would mean lowering the price of EU subscription and less income, while the current solution, even if they lose some % of customers, will eventually yield the same or more income.


As a business owner myself for the past 21 years and as a consumer I see both sides of this issue.

Over the course of the past 21 years I have had to adjust my business strategy due to recession and market trends on several occasions. As a measure of absolute last resort and with great loathing,there were simply times when I could not avoid passing the costs off to the consumer.

As a business owner myself I believe that CCP should be more forthcoming and honest about this matter.(without compromising themselves to their competition)

However...

I also believe that the playerbase should be far less cynical and self centered.

At the end of the month like all of us..the employees of CCP have mortgages to pay,food to buy and children to clothe...for CCP it is an issue of economic viability...for the playerbase it is an issue of perhaps giving up an alt or two.

The two situations are not morally equivalent.

Like many situations in life...

"Somedays you get the bear,somedays the bear gets you."

Cheers




Obviously you missed the lesson of business success, "the customer is always right."

I.E. if you DONT have a customer you don't have a business and the way ccp continues to annoy and **** of it's player base with moves like this and it's mimic of WoW instanced base pvp, it's no wonder EVE hasn't grown to eve a fraction of the fame and height WoW has but EVE has originality and until recent moments has been up there w/ blizzard setting standards and now are regressing and following blizzards footsteps.

It's only a matter of time until players start quitting CCP.

James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.05.24 09:17:00 - [588]
 

Originally by: skuko
Originally by: CCP RyanD
stuff


all right then...if you consider blizzard "de facto standard", why not lower the EU price to 12.99,- ?

please answer this simple question...


Better game, higher price?

Gajowy
Posted - 2008.05.24 09:20:00 - [589]
 

Edited by: Gajowy on 24/05/2008 09:20:56
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: skuko
Originally by: CCP RyanD
stuff


all right then...if you consider blizzard "de facto standard", why not lower the EU price to 12.99,- ?

please answer this simple question...


Better game, higher price?


hell yeah i have better lags in eve, better customer service by ccp. you are right all the way.Shocked

James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.05.24 09:21:00 - [590]
 

Originally by: Julius Kashmir

Obviously you missed the lesson of business success, "the customer is always right."



Hi, you must be new here. Might I suggest a brief look around the forums? I think you'll see some examples of customers being about as wrong as it's possible to be.

Roland Torq
Posted - 2008.05.24 09:38:00 - [591]
 

Originally by: Kerfira
Edited by: Kerfira on 22/05/2008 16:02:05
Originally by: Jack Gilligan
I have a certain amount per month I am willing to pay for a MMO. Currently I run 4 accounts. That will be cut, indeed I just set very long skill trains on 2 of them and canceled. CCP will in the end make no more money because of this.

Oh, I think they will earn more.
One in every seven accounts affected by this would have to be cancelled for them to be worse off. Don't see that happening.

European players are as happy as fish in a pond about this. It shows that CCP wants this to be a game where everyone pay the same.
For Americans, blame your government....



I will say this once and only once. Do not bring up insults against different nations because who does have more money and shows so by being the world superpower. Think again before you speak. Second just at my work alone theres 87% account cancellation so either CCP will realize they need to listen to their playerbase for once or they'll figure that out after everyone cancels accounts. After all theres only what, 300k accounts on Eve? I estimate 1/3 of the active accounts will be canceled. Well, enjoy the rest of your game time sucking CCP off and giving in to their every last demand, even price increases. G'bye.:D (not like CCP's customer service was any good to start with.)

Iloni Atoriandra
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.05.24 09:56:00 - [592]
 

Hey if everyone quits then that should solve lag :D

Looks like CCP were working on the lag problem after all Twisted Evil

Akarianna
Posted - 2008.05.24 09:56:00 - [593]
 

well being as how a 90 day gtc currently cost 38.95 then i think 34.95 for 60 days is a pretty big hike 4 dollars lest and you lose 30 days play so its a pretty drastic hike 34.95 x 6 is 209.70 38.95 x 4 is 155.80 thats 54 dollars a year increase

Cutter Isaacson
Minmatar
Spycotics
Posted - 2008.05.24 10:03:00 - [594]
 

Edited by: Cutter Isaacson on 24/05/2008 10:03:36
Ok, what the hell is with the advert for on the main page? 30day GTC's now available in Greece? Much props to CCP RyanD for coming in here and trying valiantly to soothe the raging masses but I think its about time for a proper Devblog.

We need some real answers to our questions, of which there seem to be many, and we need these answers very soon. CCP, Im sure every player out there understands you have a business to run and that in order to keep your business profitable and therefore keep it going, certain changes need to be made.

However, the way you have gone about not only making these changes but also the methods used for announcing them shows a quite severe lack of interest in your customers, who you may remember are the ones who got you where you are today. Im not saying you owe us any vast favours, but a little bit of respect would not go amiss.

So, a Devblog I say, with a decent explanation of what you are doing. We as customers have legal rights to transparency when it comes to a service and or product that we pay for. So lets see how transparent you can be.


Posting with my main. These are not the views of my Alliance, I speak only for myself.

MBlaster
TANK.
Posted - 2008.05.24 11:08:00 - [595]
 

Originally by: CCP RyanD
If you wish to pay 30 days at a time, you'll be able to do that (and if you cannot do it now you will likely be able to do it soon) even if you do not have a credit card. This simplification has a number of internal benefits, and we decided that those benefits outweighed the unfortunate impact that the change might have to some of our customers who wish to use a payment method we don't yet support.


Players have been asking for the option to purchase game time without a credit card for years, and the best you can do is 'likely be able to do it soon'. Is there any particular reason it takes over 5 years to integrate wider payment options into your billing system? It is after all in your own best interest to offer as many payment methods as possible to your customers and in my case, buying 30 day GTC is the result of not being able to pay monthly using a credit card.

In addition, wouldn't it be sensible to remove 30 day GTC once you've provided the ability for customers to purchase 30 days of game time using a method other then a credit card? I really don't care about price increases, I just want to pay monthly and would prefer to pay CCP directly.


Siona Windweaver
Placeholder Holdings
Posted - 2008.05.24 11:46:00 - [596]
 

Edited by: Siona Windweaver on 24/05/2008 11:49:16
Originally by: CCP RyanD

We are constantly working on improving our basic, direct payment services as well. Recently we have integrated options which allow, or will soon allow, people without credit cards to use those systems.


THIS should have been front page news.

Originally by: CCP RyanD
We prefer that our customers use our direct-bill services for a number of reasons. The most important is that using that system allows us to collect the full price of the subscriptions. Our Time Code systems use a reseller network, and they receive a discount from the suggested price of the Time Codes when they purchase them in bulk This discount is how they make a profit selling the codes to the public, but it means that Time Codes are a less profitable way for us to do business with our customers.


Thats fair enough.

Originally by: CCP RyanD
We think that the market, lead by Blizzard, is moving towards a standard of 60 days for Time Codes and we're moving there at the same time. As Blizzard's policies (due to volume) often become de facto standards, we think that many other games will follow in this path as well.


Blizzard still holds the biggest share in MMO industry but by no means they are industry leaders. Point me to a single original Blizzard policie that has became standart, i'll save you the troube to even think about it; NONE. Everything Blizzard has done was already available long before WoW's release. Including game time cards. Just because they have major share doesnt mean they create standards for whole industry.

EVE is alot different than WoW, they have different audiences with different needs.

Originally by: CCP RyanD
Our pricing for our 60 day Time Code is higher than Blizzards (today) and that reflects a number of assumptions about who buys the time codes, who will be acting as our reselling partners for those time codes, the impact of various taxation regimes, and the foreign exchange rates between currencies. Although our pricing does not mirror the marketshare leader at this time, it does reflect the internal assumptions we are basing our business plan on, and our price is something we are comfortable with at this time.


Again, this is not WoW, there are very large amount of people that are using ISK to buy GTC. Removing 30-day and 90-day cards will just make them reconsider their thoughts about their multiple accounts. GTC sellers will decrease, resulting in more expensive ETC to ISK ratio. More expensive ETC means less people will use them and on and on, you get the idea.

Btw, what is so complex about 30-60-90 GTC options?

SerjR
Minmatar
Die Tochter des Waldes
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2008.05.24 11:50:00 - [597]
 

Originally by: CCP RyanD

a lot of text


Itís nice to see really things, why all this was not wrote in that news article? Also i will be really grateful if you can publish list of payment systems that will be available soon, because i use timecodes only because my cards not accepted by CCP billing and in our country we have very limited list of pay services. Most interesting for me is Webmoney.
Thank you.
WBR.

Zasmar
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2008.05.24 11:56:00 - [598]
 

Don't normally post on issues like this, but this price increase is going to seriously affect how I play. Just opened up two new accounts recently, but I won't be able to afford to pay for all those now, especially in two monthly installments.

People have mentioned just subscribing with Visa, yet, alot of people don't have a Visa card. Also paying just every 30days by card costs nearly £11, thats alot of money each month especially x3.

This is really not good, CCP please reconsider what you are doing here!

Vanessa Vasquez
Quantar Swords
Posted - 2008.05.24 11:58:00 - [599]
 

Originally by: fux lol
bah, i used to love the fact that i could buy a 90 day for my main which i'm always using

and when i start to get low on isk, i'd buy a 30 day timecard for an alt and do some missions on it.. or y'know i could just buy a 30 day card if i wanted to try out another portion of the game for a decent price.. its silly that now i have to Pay More.. for the oppurtunity to lose some of this flexibility..

not so much a whine, as a general thumbs down at CCP, something ive not actually thought in a good 3 years

Bleh -1


this. I don't bother paying a bit more to compensate the low $, but removing options is not a good idea.

Squasar
Void Angels
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2008.05.24 12:04:00 - [600]
 

Which is why when my sub runs out in 5 days that I'm re-upping with a one year sub just in case CC subs o up within the next year :p


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