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Lt Angus
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.05.23 13:41:00 - [421]
 

Laughing
Wahhhh ive just discovered the rest of the world and it doesn't revolve arround me Sad

Red Desire
Republic Military School
Posted - 2008.05.23 13:45:00 - [422]
 

Pffft… nice way of telling us to f ourselves, if I wanted wood language I would stay at work or watch some crapy politics channel.
Just say the truth, is that hard?

Say : we increased the price of GTC, so all you peeps out there paying with GTCS will have to pay 30% more to play. And yes, we use these 60 day GTC pretext so we can increase prices. We thought you are so dumb you won’t notice, also there were those mofos who were leaving 1 big skills to train for 1 month and then reactivate.. cheap bastards, we wanted to get those too.
I’m just appalled how you guys dare to just lie like that to us!
PS: For the dummies yelling RMT, people will pay more dollars to get the same ISK from GTC, that means ISK is even more cheaper to buy from sellers and be assured there are enough around to sell it.

Daelin Blackleaf
White Rose Society
Posted - 2008.05.23 13:45:00 - [423]
 

Originally by: CCP Wrangler
This change is being done to simplify the system and attune our product offerings with industry standards, as mentioned in the news. It does not affect any of our other payment options or subscription plans; you can read about those in the FAQ.


Then you wouldn't mind returning the price/day to the same level as the old 90day GTC?
...and your not at all bothered about removing payment options from your customers?

Also: Someone didn't read the thread before posting. Very Happy

Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Posted - 2008.05.23 13:46:00 - [424]
 

Oh dear :/
It was probably not the best idea to just repeat the phrase everyone's been getting annoyed at. I'll re-iterate a post from earlier that would seem useful about now:

They've made the new GTC price in line with the european subscription price. And let's be clear, who actually relies on GTCs? There are only three types of person who buy GTCs:
- Americans with no access to a credit card etc.
- Europeans buying US codes to play on the cheap by taking advantage of the weak dollar and lack of tax.
- Someone buying them to sell for isk in-game.

The first type can now use PayByCash to pay for their subscription and normal sub rates have not changed for US residents. If they can manage to buy a game time code (e.g. through using paypal), they can almost certainly pay ther sub using PayByCash because PayByCash themselves accept payment from sources like paypal. So the first type of person doesn't rely on GTCs at all. The second type (europeans buying cheap gtcs) shouldn't have been happening and was costing CCP a lot of lost revenue as the dollar plumetted.

The third type is the only type legitimately affected by the change, but since the value of those GTCs in isk depends roughly on their cost in dollars, the effect is that people selling GTCS for isk will see little change but those buying them will. People buying gtcs for isk are thus the only group severely affected by the change and to be clear, I'm part of that group and am not too annoyed by the price change.

What I (and I think most people complaining) are averse to is the removal of the 30d and 90d codes. The most important GTC CCP make is the 30d code as it allows players to play eve on a monthly basis without having more than 150m in their wallet. As most players hover around that mark in their wallet, it's reasonable to assume that a large number of people who buy gtcs with isk currently are going to be negatively affected and potentially will be unable to keep subscribed. The 60d gtc is a great idea on its own and it does conform with a large portion of the industry standard. The 30d and 90d codes also conform with that standard, which you can see if you check gtcs for all major mmos. If the prices change on them, people will complain but they'll get over it. I really can't see a reason why the 30d code has to be removed entirely and that's the main issue at hand which hasn't really been addressed.

Seetesh
Caldari
The Resident Haunting
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2008.05.23 13:46:00 - [425]
 

Lol nice wya of trying to word around it wrangler, we just want the variation of time codes back keep the money we want a choice.

Julian Lynq
Posted - 2008.05.23 13:48:00 - [426]
 

i wonder how many people will feel the need to *attune* their number of accounts to *industry standards*..

Laughing

Kur'Dekaija
Wolfs In Gray Armor
Posted - 2008.05.23 13:50:00 - [427]
 

lol so many ppl whining Very Happy you little babies.

I bet you guys spend more cash for beer in 1 week than the extra cost of EVE in 1 year Laughing

But I wouldn't mind having 120 days and bigger GTC available, having to buy every 2 months is annoying.

Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Posted - 2008.05.23 13:51:00 - [428]
 

Edited by: Nyphur on 23/05/2008 13:52:24
Originally by: Julian Lynq
i wonder how many people will feel the need to *attune* their number of accounts to *industry standards*..

Laughing

Oh zing Laughing

But seriously, not having a 30d and 90d option is almost assuredly going to harm sales and lose CCP potential profit. There's no need for it, it doesn't cost them any extra to make multiple types of code since it's a virtual good. I'm baffled as to why they would do that.

Originally by: Kur'Dekaija
But I wouldn't mind having 120 days and bigger GTC available, having to buy every 2 months is annoying.

You could just buy two at a time I suppose.

Seetesh
Caldari
The Resident Haunting
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2008.05.23 13:54:00 - [429]
 

Lol yeah id support an introduction of a 120day gtc aswell btu i still would like 30 and 90days back they can easily apply a new charge for those.

Kur'Dekaija
Wolfs In Gray Armor
Posted - 2008.05.23 13:56:00 - [430]
 

Originally by: Nyphur

Originally by: Kur'Dekaija
But I wouldn't mind having 120 days and bigger GTC available, having to buy every 2 months is annoying.

You could just buy two at a time I suppose.


that solves it, happy days again Smile

Johnny Gurkha
Silver Snake Enterprise
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2008.05.23 13:57:00 - [431]
 

Originally by: Julian Lynq
i wonder how many people will feel the need to *attune* their number of accounts to *industry standards*..

Laughing


Oh dang that's a good one Laughing

Darth Sithus
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2008.05.23 14:00:00 - [432]
 

Originally by: Seetesh
Lol yeah id support an introduction of a 120day gtc aswell btu i still would like 30 and 90days back they can easily apply a new charge for those.


Actualy replacing 30d and 90d with 60d and 120d would be good too, but just 60d is just ****.

Leviathan9
Gallente
Royal Hiigaran Navy
South Pole Dancers
Posted - 2008.05.23 14:05:00 - [433]
 

I buy 30days to payy my subs cos its cheaper, in 2 months than it would with the 60day, plus i don't want to have to spend $35 or w/e.. £19 in one month, yeah i'm one of those people who should be studying and only got a certain amount of cash a month, but i don't see why i should be forced to pay more. Keep the 30days and add in the 60day option. So again i don't wont to have to spend that much money in a month because then i wont have much at all for social life.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2008.05.23 14:06:00 - [434]
 

Originally by: Kur'Dekaija
lol so many ppl whining Very Happy you little babies.

I bet you guys spend more cash for beer in 1 week than the extra cost of EVE in 1 year Laughing
See, this is why I think of EVE (or any MMO, really) as a great investment. They keep me from doing things that will really damage my economy….

Paying for MMO = more money left at the end of the month. Razz

Seetesh
Caldari
The Resident Haunting
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2008.05.23 14:15:00 - [435]
 

Edited by: Seetesh on 23/05/2008 14:16:58
As per advice i have chosen to now also attune my several accounts to industry standard unless the full wack of game time codes are added back.

P.s. Wrangler i no longer like you, you have let me down. Crying or Very sad

Iloni Atoriandra
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.05.23 14:24:00 - [436]
 

$200 a year is more than most people spend on beer a week, thats how much extra it will cost me.

UK people are screwed, cant pay by debit cards so need a credit card. Even if they do use a CC then they have to pay in Euros which the £ is very weak against, or if they pay by cash they have to pay even more and its still in Euros.

They should stop charging things in different currencies, charging $15 and 15 Euros is stupid as the $ is obviously cheaper.

Even by closing 1 account im still paying MORE a year than i was previously with that extra account, why would anyone want to pay more to play less accounts?

CCP are going completely against the market trend, as there are more MMO's out subscriptions prices should DROP as competition heats up between them and companies try to lure their competators customers to themselves. Look at any type of company in a selective market thats in competition with other companies; electric, gas, water, internet, phones packages, cable etc etc and they all try and beat the others on price to get more customers. NOT being competative can infact result with allegations or price fixing and result in investigations for running a monopoly on the market (insert correct word for amount of companies)

This also doesnt look good with Jumpgate Evolution coming out which is the closest MMO to EVE atm so will problly be in the most direct competition with CCP and so will try and lure people away from EVE.

In summary stick to 1 currency for payments, open up more payment options eg Maestro/Switch/Solo/Paypal. Give a variety of payment and subscription options.

Pak Narhoo
Gallente
Posted - 2008.05.23 15:06:00 - [437]
 

CCP, I don't care (really don not give a fux) for the raise in subscription, but have you truly thought out the 14 day trail memberships????
I for one would had not considered continuing EVE if I had only 1 option left after my first 14 days.. its bad, Its bad politics, its bad not giving people a choice.

Please reconsider!

Princess Gally
Posted - 2008.05.23 15:07:00 - [438]
 

Originally by: Nyphur
I really can't see a reason why the 30d code has to be removed entirely and that's the main issue at hand which hasn't really been addressed.

Simple: because CCP would have to raise its price over 20$ to make a European prefer subscribing in Euro with CC (wich is the purpose of all this let's make this clear).

They're not removing the US ETC loophole, they're just nerfing it.

Going Forit
Posted - 2008.05.23 15:12:00 - [439]
 

Oh look the sociopathic behaviour ccp encourages is starting to reflect on the employees aswell

Who would have thought

I'm so friggin dissapointed ccp. Don't expect me to write something constructive after a sh*tbomb like this

Wrangler, you're representing your firm regarding the matter, therefore you're subsequently removed from my pretty cool guys list

/thread

//game:(?

Locii
Posted - 2008.05.23 15:25:00 - [440]
 

Any chance of getting a ccp responce to this, a proper responce not some copy and paste one liner..

people, your customers are upset... respond pls

Heroldyn
Posted - 2008.05.23 15:28:00 - [441]
 

Originally by: Locii
Any chance of getting a ccp responce to this, a proper responce not some copy and paste one liner..

people, your customers are upset... respond pls


an unmoderated live devblog would be fun

Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Posted - 2008.05.23 15:36:00 - [442]
 

Originally by: Princess Gally
Originally by: Nyphur
I really can't see a reason why the 30d code has to be removed entirely and that's the main issue at hand which hasn't really been addressed.

Simple: because CCP would have to raise its price over 20$ to make a European prefer subscribing in Euro with CC (wich is the purpose of all this let's make this clear).

The problem isn't with the price, it's with the removal of the 30d code altogether. A lot of players relied on there being a short duration code that they could buy with isk they made each month and not all players want to be forced into a longer-term contract of two months at a time. I wouldn't care if they upped the 30d and 90d codes to match the new price levels, the issue is that they're just cancelling it. I can't think of any reason for removing the code entirely.

Blank Protection
State War Academy
Posted - 2008.05.23 15:50:00 - [443]
 

Everybody plz stop playing this game!!!
More roids and rats for me than and very less lag.Laughing

Good job CCP.Wink

Innaara
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2008.05.23 16:02:00 - [444]
 

Does everyone here actually think that al these responses are going to have any result? CCP has spend to much time on that cold nordic rock so they think they rule the MMO world. They think EVE is the only scifi MMO (monopoly) and can do anything they want. Bad thing is, that that is true and they're doing it right now.

Everyone is complaining that they will quit bla bla bla, but in the end most of us will continue playing.

Until some other SciFi MMO will arise........ hopefully very soon.

Rorin Cutter
Caldari
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.23 16:04:00 - [445]
 

Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Princess Gally
Originally by: Nyphur
I really can't see a reason why the 30d code has to be removed entirely and that's the main issue at hand which hasn't really been addressed.

Simple: because CCP would have to raise its price over 20$ to make a European prefer subscribing in Euro with CC (wich is the purpose of all this let's make this clear).

The problem isn't with the price, it's with the removal of the 30d code altogether. A lot of players relied on there being a short duration code that they could buy with isk they made each month and not all players want to be forced into a longer-term contract of two months at a time. I wouldn't care if they upped the 30d and 90d codes to match the new price levels, the issue is that they're just cancelling it. I can't think of any reason for removing the code entirely.


I can, the reason is the same as why T20 got away with what he did, CCP does not care. As long as there is enough people who pay even though they are unhappy, why should they care?

Princess Gally
Posted - 2008.05.23 16:12:00 - [446]
 

Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Princess Gally
Originally by: Nyphur
I really can't see a reason why the 30d code has to be removed entirely and that's the main issue at hand which hasn't really been addressed.

Simple: because CCP would have to raise its price over 20$ to make a European prefer subscribing in Euro with CC (wich is the purpose of all this let's make this clear).

The problem isn't with the price, it's with the removal of the 30d code altogether. A lot of players relied on there being a short duration code that they could buy with isk they made each month and not all players want to be forced into a longer-term contract of two months at a time. I wouldn't care if they upped the 30d and 90d codes to match the new price levels, the issue is that they're just cancelling it. I can't think of any reason for removing the code entirely.

For the flexibility of a 30 days period, we still have the 14.90€ CC subscription. But that makes a 50% increase for europeans who used to refill with 30d cards paid in dollars.

We can't whine about this. It was good while it lasted. I'll miss my alt tho...

Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Posted - 2008.05.23 16:25:00 - [447]
 

Edited by: Nyphur on 23/05/2008 16:31:28
Originally by: Princess Gally
For the flexibility of a 30 days period, we still have the 14.90€ CC subscription. But that makes a 50% increase for europeans who used to refill with 30d cards paid in dollars.

We can't whine about this. It was good while it lasted. I'll miss my alt tho...

You're still not getting it. Game time codes are used primarily by people with no access to a credit card, either by buying through alternative purchasing mediums like paypal or by buying them with isk. The lack of a 30d code removes the ability of anyone who relies on GTCS to buy on a monthly basis and removes their ability to buy a code for a small amount of isk. As most players only keep enough isk in their wallets to be able to afford the current 30d code prices, those who rely on them are faced with either increasing their wallet to an average holding of 350m+ (whatever the new price will be for 60d codes) or if they can't do that cancelling their accounts. The former isn't always possible and nobody wants the latter to happen.

Again, I assert that there's absolutely no reason for 30d codes to be removed and that furthermore, there are players who rely on it. Their removal will hurt GTC sales more than simply increasing their prices to match the per day rate of the new 60d code. There's virtually no extra overhead for having additional options for code purchases as they're virtual goods and there are players who want to buy in increments of more or less than 60 days. Removing those options without a good reason for it will harm GTC sales and I can't think of any good reason for their removal. Even from a total greed business perspective, it's a bad decision to simplify the product range when there's no overhead for diversification. If they have a good reason, why aren't they telling us it?

Originally by: Rorin Cutter
I can, the reason is the same as why T20 got away with what he did, CCP does not care. As long as there is enough people who pay even though they are unhappy, why should they care?

They're a business out to make a profit working at something they love. I can think of no logical reason for a business to intentionally harm customers at no benefit to themselves. Removing 30d codes as an option provides no apparant benefit to CCP but significantly negatively impacts any players relying on them who can't adapt to using 60d ones. This is why some people are confused and concerned.

Kuseka Adama
Gallente
Northstar Cabal
Posted - 2008.05.23 16:27:00 - [448]
 

*starts handing out cheese for all the whine.*

Seriously we need a friggin fleet of Whaaaaaambulances.

Speaking as an American this doesnt affect me much Though i tend to just pay the current rate no matter what. I subscribe i dont use GTC's. If this means an over all subscription increase is in the future then i might have a problem. Though the fact is cirucmstances are setup so i can pay for a year within the next 3 weeks so i really dont see the problem in all of this. Personally i think the GTC should be eliminated in general. It was a good idea when it started but now its an ISK for RL money device. Some are whining about not being able to choose the amount of time they play.

Thats not true. You arent being allowed to choose at the PRICE you want. A multi monthly subscription runs about the same cost as a GTC. You are free in that time frame to cancel if you choose or at the end of it cancel. I was forced to do it because of net issues last year. I had no problems from CCP in that regard. They did not continue to charge my card i didnt have to go 15 rounds with lawyers.

Dont want to pay more? Tough i wont be surprised if other MMO's do it at some point. Other games you can play online. Hell i have TF2 and supcom in my bag of tricks. I cant comprehend all the responds this thread has gotten. If you want to leave leave. I really could give a damn there are plenty of people playing.

To the asshats bashing the 'bush' economy as if any other president would of been able to fix matters. I mean come on oil was going to do this no matter what. BTW 1-800-biteme1 is waiting for your complaints. **** happens. Its the real friggin world boys and girls. Either way i am content paying for how i am playing right now. Eliminate the GTC and make this a pure subscriber based game CCP. Lets end a huge avenue for ISK selling right now.

Siona Windweaver
Placeholder Holdings
Posted - 2008.05.23 16:41:00 - [449]
 

Edited by: Siona Windweaver on 23/05/2008 16:41:55
Originally by: Nyphur
Edited by: Nyphur on 23/05/2008 16:31:28
Originally by: Princess Gally
For the flexibility of a 30 days period, we still have the 14.90€ CC subscription. But that makes a 50% increase for europeans who used to refill with 30d cards paid in dollars.

We can't whine about this. It was good while it lasted. I'll miss my alt tho...

You're still not getting it. Game time codes are used primarily by people with no access to a credit card, either by buying through alternative purchasing mediums like paypal or by buying them with isk. The lack of a 30d code removes the ability of anyone who relies on GTCS to buy on a monthly basis and removes their ability to buy a code for a small amount of isk. As most players only keep enough isk in their wallets to be able to afford the current 30d code prices, those who rely on them are faced with either increasing their wallet to an average holding of 350m+ (whatever the new price will be for 60d codes) or if they can't do that cancelling their accounts. The former isn't always possible and nobody wants the latter to happen.

Again, I assert that there's absolutely no reason for 30d codes to be removed and that furthermore, there are players who rely on it. Their removal will hurt GTC sales more than simply increasing their prices to match the per day rate of the new 60d code. There's virtually no extra overhead for having additional options for code purchases as they're virtual goods and there are players who want to buy in increments of more or less than 60 days. Removing those options without a good reason for it will harm GTC sales and I can't think of any good reason for their removal. Even from a total greed business perspective, it's a bad decision to simplify the product range when there's no overhead for diversification. If they have a good reason, why aren't they telling us it?

Originally by: Rorin Cutter
I can, the reason is the same as why T20 got away with what he did, CCP does not care. As long as there is enough people who pay even though they are unhappy, why should they care?

They're a business out to make a profit working at something they love. I can think of no logical reason for a business to intentionally harm customers at no benefit to themselves. Removing 30d codes as an option provides no apparant benefit to CCP but significantly negatively impacts any players relying on them who can't adapt to using 60d ones. This is why some people are confused and concerned.


Dont forget the current 30-day GTC sellers will have hard time adjusting to 60-day ones, with so high price difference (from $14.95 to $34.95), i'd say number of people that are selling GTC will also decrease. Only people that are selling mass amounts of GTC wont be effected, but they are already low in numbers.

So overall result will be increased prices in Timecode Bazaar, perhaps too much for some people to maintain their multiple accounts, such as myself.

Rorin Cutter
Caldari
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.23 16:42:00 - [450]
 

Originally by: Kuseka Adama
*starts handing out cheese for all the whine.*

Seriously we need a friggin fleet of Whaaaaaambulances.

Speaking as an American this doesnt affect me much Though i tend to just pay the current rate no matter what. I subscribe i dont use GTC's. If this means an over all subscription increase is in the future then i might have a problem. Though the fact is cirucmstances are setup so i can pay for a year within the next 3 weeks so i really dont see the problem in all of this. Personally i think the GTC should be eliminated in general. It was a good idea when it started but now its an ISK for RL money device. Some are whining about not being able to choose the amount of time they play.

Thats not true. You arent being allowed to choose at the PRICE you want. A multi monthly subscription runs about the same cost as a GTC. You are free in that time frame to cancel if you choose or at the end of it cancel. I was forced to do it because of net issues last year. I had no problems from CCP in that regard. They did not continue to charge my card i didnt have to go 15 rounds with lawyers.

Dont want to pay more? Tough i wont be surprised if other MMO's do it at some point. Other games you can play online. Hell i have TF2 and supcom in my bag of tricks. I cant comprehend all the responds this thread has gotten. If you want to leave leave. I really could give a damn there are plenty of people playing.

To the asshats bashing the 'bush' economy as if any other president would of been able to fix matters. I mean come on oil was going to do this no matter what. BTW 1-800-biteme1 is waiting for your complaints. **** happens. Its the real friggin world boys and girls. Either way i am content paying for how i am playing right now. Eliminate the GTC and make this a pure subscriber based game CCP. Lets end a huge avenue for ISK selling right now.


I think your missing the point, not everyone has the bank payment option and or a credit card. If you can pay for the next year, thats fine. I can't and thats not fine for me. If GTC's were taken away I wouldn't be playing at all. I need the 30 day option, or I can not play like I do today. It's that simple. I can quit pvp'ing with you... and rat for 60 days to make enough isk for this new card or I can stop playing and go find a game to play somewhere else. I like eve and want to keep playing, I am just not sure that I can:-(


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