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Kailiani
Posted - 2008.05.23 00:44:00 - [271]
 

I was barely getting by with 2 accounts, I don't have much time to play to gain ISK to purchase GTC's, half the ISK comes from R&D agents even!

What really sucks is I'm going to have to play almost as much to keep one account up now, no way I'm sparing more of my RL time to keep two accounts alive at this cost.

Kuzya Morozov
Gallente
Capital Construction Research
Posted - 2008.05.23 00:44:00 - [272]
 

Whoa, is this serious? Don't do this CCP!

Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Posted - 2008.05.23 00:50:00 - [273]
 

Originally by: Shakuul
Shouldn't the tax only be on Value Added...so CCP deducts server expenses and everything before paying the tax (since these are basically inputs that they purchased)? If this is the case, I doubt the impact of the VAT is as drastic as you're making it out to be.

It's not necesarily to do with VAT at all. They've made the new GTC price in line with the european subscription price. And let's be clear, who actually relies on GTCs? There are only three types of person who buy GTCs:
- Americans with no access to a credit card etc.
- Europeans buying US codes to play on the cheap by taking advantage of the weak dollar and lack of tax.
- Someone buying them to sell for isk in-game.

The first type can now use PayByCash to pay for their subscription and normal sub rates have not changed for US residents. If they can manage to buy a game time code (e.g. through using paypal), they can almost certainly pay ther sub using PayByCash. They don't rely on GTCs at all. The second type (europeans buying cheap gtcs) shouldn't have been happening and was costing CCP a lot of lost revenue as the dollar plumetted. The third type is the only type legitimately affected by the change, but since the value of those GTCs in isk depends roughly on their cost in dollars, the effect is that people selling GTCS for isk will see little change but those buying them will.

People buying gtcs for isk are thus the only group severely affected by the change and to be clear, I'm part of that group and am not too annoyed by the change. In light of my increasing isk costs, I might let one of my accounts lapse or sell the main char on it and cancel it but I haven't decided yet.

Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
Posted - 2008.05.23 01:07:00 - [274]
 

Onowwwwws!

This is bound to force the ISK price of GTC's up, and they are currently at their lowest for nearly two years.

Now I will have to spend evern moar of my Internet Spaceship Kredits to play your damnable game!!!!11

GRRRRR CCP! <SHAKES FIST VEHEMENTLY>

Uncle Mo
Infusion.
G00DFELLAS
Posted - 2008.05.23 01:12:00 - [275]
 

CCP, we want more choices, not less. This is BS!

Kuzya Morozov
Gallente
Capital Construction Research
Posted - 2008.05.23 01:12:00 - [276]
 

Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Shakuul
Shouldn't the tax only be on Value Added...so CCP deducts server expenses and everything before paying the tax (since these are basically inputs that they purchased)? If this is the case, I doubt the impact of the VAT is as drastic as you're making it out to be.

It's not necesarily to do with VAT at all. They've made the new GTC price in line with the european subscription price. And let's be clear, who actually relies on GTCs? There are only three types of person who buy GTCs:
- Americans with no access to a credit card etc.
- Europeans buying US codes to play on the cheap by taking advantage of the weak dollar and lack of tax.
- Someone buying them to sell for isk in-game.

The first type can now use PayByCash to pay for their subscription and normal sub rates have not changed for US residents. If they can manage to buy a game time code (e.g. through using paypal), they can almost certainly pay ther sub using PayByCash. They don't rely on GTCs at all. The second type (europeans buying cheap gtcs) shouldn't have been happening and was costing CCP a lot of lost revenue as the dollar plumetted. The third type is the only type legitimately affected by the change, but since the value of those GTCs in isk depends roughly on their cost in dollars, the effect is that people selling GTCS for isk will see little change but those buying them will.

People buying gtcs for isk are thus the only group severely affected by the change and to be clear, I'm part of that group and am not too annoyed by the change. In light of my increasing isk costs, I might let one of my accounts lapse or sell the main char on it and cancel it but I haven't decided yet.


How about people who buy them FOR isk? And can't afford more than 150mil a month?

cornelius Agrippa
Posted - 2008.05.23 01:33:00 - [277]
 

The one thing that gets me as am from the UK but live in the USA is the following

Why should a person living in a country have to be made to pay for there countrys money problems, its not the players fault the dollor has dropped to a low its not the Europeans fault there money is worth a little more why upset the player base for things they cannot controll .

30day 90 110 should be left as they are add in the 60 day cards and maybe just maybe the few of us people that started playing 5 years ago will still play for the next 5 years.
I dont really care about the increase but i do think paying 34.99 for a 60 day card and loseing 30days is a bit much.

MacQueen
Amarr
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.05.23 01:34:00 - [278]
 

Originally by: MacQueen
Question: If I pay direct to CCP. Will I be able to get 30 day increments of game time? If so, would it continue to be the current price, or would that go up.

Thanks.


Still wondering this.

Maria Anatolia
Posted - 2008.05.23 01:40:00 - [279]
 

This sucks! "To simplify and bla bla" why not just say it? "To make more money we raise the price and lower your choice in time cards."

And it sucks that we in Europe have to pay more for the same service. Two accounts cost me about 300SEK each month if I pay in euros which is almost 50 frickin dollars!

Big Al
The Aftermath
Posted - 2008.05.23 01:45:00 - [280]
 

Don't worry guys, you're still getting all these 'free' upgrades.

Tek'a Rain
Gallente
Collegium Mechanicae
Posted - 2008.05.23 01:56:00 - [281]
 

Edited by: Tek''a Rain on 23/05/2008 01:57:43
Originally by: cornelius Agrippa
why upset the player base for things they cannot controll .



players, well, most Especially UK players, using the GTC Loophole to pay lower costs is the problem here. Since they chose to do that, why on earth are they getting upset when that loophole is taken away?


As for me, well, I pay with my card in multiple month blocks and my sub prices are not changing.

Remember, this is not a "OMG, CCP charges more for USA players!" issue. This is a "CCP Are Closing a loophole used by UK/outside US players!"

Edit: well, I kinda disagree with the funny changes and removing the timecardss though. Less Choices=Bad. Price Increases are fine, but not when bundled (hidden) Inside other changes.

Miner Nine
Caldari
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2008.05.23 02:00:00 - [282]
 

Welp, I don't know about anyone else but I'm going take my money elsewhere if this go into effect. All I ever want is semi-smooth Fleet battles. For the past 5 years fleet battles have lag horrible and you're losts were due to server failing. But if you complain about these losts, the logs show nothing.

Now you're going be flying 9 people to Iceland, when the cost of travel is going higher then ever due to cost of fuel. 9 people that are suppose to be our elected officals, whom very first meeting is private. Non-transparent democracy to fly these people to Iceland and you raise the cost to play a game. We all know the CSM are going be worthless, just look at who is chairing it and their track record. I hate having to vote with my feet, but guess that's the way it has to be.

theteck
Posted - 2008.05.23 02:02:00 - [283]
 

last time i try paypal with paybycash ... i have problem

because paybycash require a paypal authentified with credit card
i pay a friend that buy gtc for me :)

but now i want to use paypal directly with ccp give me a account and i send money :)

Leviathan9
Gallente
Royal Hiigaran Navy
South Pole Dancers
Posted - 2008.05.23 02:09:00 - [284]
 

Edited by: Leviathan9 on 23/05/2008 02:11:32
Errmm i always get 30day don't get rid of it... This is just a con so CCP get more money.. CCP keep the 30day and 90days, and add in teh 60days, then no body gets angry.

Tek'a Rain
Gallente
Collegium Mechanicae
Posted - 2008.05.23 02:11:00 - [285]
 

Originally by: Miner Nine
Welp, I don't know about anyone else but I'm going take my money elsewhere if this go into effect.


From the way its written, the effect is When, not If. So you can contract your stuff to me and feel free to vote with your feet, etc, etc.

Kilhu Emmek
Minmatar
Redshift Industrial
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2008.05.23 02:16:00 - [286]
 

Edited by: Kilhu Emmek on 23/05/2008 03:58:34
Originally by: Bonds Visio
I hate to ask, but did WoW prices go up or can I still play that for $15 a month?


It's actually cheaper. Buy six months of WoW and it's $12.95/mo.

The most intelligence-insulting aspect of CCP's "press release" style price increase notification is the "industry standards" line.

edit: close quote brackets ftw.

Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Posted - 2008.05.23 02:19:00 - [287]
 

Edited by: Nyphur on 23/05/2008 02:23:24
Originally by: Kuzya Morozov
How about people who buy them FOR isk? And can't afford more than 150mil a month?

I covered that in the post you quoted but I was only addressing price concerns. The people who buy 30d gtcs with isk and can only afford enough isk each month to buy one do get shafted with the dropping of the 30d code but that's another issue entirely.
Originally by: theteck
last time i try paypal with paybycash ... i have problem

because paybycash require a paypal authentified with credit card
i pay a friend that buy gtc for me :)

but now i want to use paypal directly with ccp give me a account and i send money :)


You can verify a paypal account with a normal bank account, which is free to open.

Ribijk
Posted - 2008.05.23 02:20:00 - [288]
 

I know CCP could careless about their customers and I am probably wasting my time typing this, But this is not a good idea. I am not happy with this.

Ehronn
Caldari
Nutz N Boltz
Posted - 2008.05.23 02:21:00 - [289]
 

I really hope they will change their mind and keep a 30 day and 90 day gtc's at least, the price change I don't like, but noone ever likes price increases. But please keep the 30 day and 90 day options.

I pay with 30 day gtc's myself, for 2 accounts, it's convienant and due to my rl problems and income level, they really really helped.

hopefully ccp will change their minds some.


Crying or Very sad

MilowFV
Echo Heavy Industries
Phoenix Transglobal Conglomerate
Posted - 2008.05.23 02:28:00 - [290]
 

I don't care about the price increase, but I do wonder why they cannot keep the 30 and 90 day cards. Is the whole purpose of going to a 60 day card to disguise the change in price or is there some other reason. What ever it is I don't see it being that great an idea.

Lord XSiV
Amarr
Kodar Innovations
Posted - 2008.05.23 02:33:00 - [291]
 


CCP please consider raising the price on this new 60 day gtc to 40 USD.

As it is has become apparent in this thread that the leechers have no appreciation for what you have allowed them to do in the past it would be appropriate to take that privelage away or at the very least charge a high premium.

Afterall, it isn't like these people are actually committed to the game like cc paying customers are so why should they not have to pay a premium? It is the dedicated, committed cc paying customers that allow CCP to count on revenue projections. GTC leechers on the otherhand are free to cancel at any time, abuse the skill training system by putting their accounts into 'hibernation' and abuse game resources farming isk to buy GTCs off people with money.

So, like many others who pay for the game via the preferred way of using a cc, it is finally somethign we can see that it is a move in the right direction to improving the game.

And for those who will whine because they don't have a credit card:

1. Your poor credit is not our problem
2. Your lack of a job is not our problem
3. Mommy and daddy should have a right to limit your playing ability
4. If you are a 'poor' student then you should be studying anyhow
5. Low income smokers have it way worse and they manage so quit your complaining







Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Posted - 2008.05.23 02:38:00 - [292]
 

Originally by: Lord XSiV
Afterall, it isn't like these people are actually committed to the game like cc paying customers are

Hi, I'm one of the "leechers" that you're saying isn't committed to the game because I haven't payed for my accounts with cash since they allowed gtc-isk sales. Need I say more?

Verx Interis
Amarr
SkyNet.
Posted - 2008.05.23 02:39:00 - [293]
 

I don't really care if it's some 5% increase or whatever it is. But I don't like having to spend that much money at once, and not having the option of only one month more.
30 day cards $17.49 and the 90 day cards about $49.99, and add in the 60 day cards. That's a much better way to do it.

This is really the only 100% bad thing that I think CCP have ever done. Stuff in the game was debatable, it helped some and hurt others, but this is just a bad idea.

Lamis
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2008.05.23 02:41:00 - [294]
 

Originally by: Lord XSiV

CCP please consider raising the price on this new 60 day gtc to 40 USD.

As it is has become apparent in this thread that the leechers have no appreciation for what you have allowed them to do in the past it would be appropriate to take that privelage away or at the very least charge a high premium.

Afterall, it isn't like these people are actually committed to the game like cc paying customers are so why should they not have to pay a premium? It is the dedicated, committed cc paying customers that allow CCP to count on revenue projections. GTC leechers on the otherhand are free to cancel at any time, abuse the skill training system by putting their accounts into 'hibernation' and abuse game resources farming isk to buy GTCs off people with money.

So, like many others who pay for the game via the preferred way of using a cc, it is finally somethign we can see that it is a move in the right direction to improving the game.

And for those who will whine because they don't have a credit card:

1. Your poor credit is not our problem
2. Your lack of a job is not our problem
3. Mommy and daddy should have a right to limit your playing ability
4. If you are a 'poor' student then you should be studying anyhow
5. Low income smokers have it way worse and they manage so quit your complaining








Says the person who's Mommy and daddy are rich enough to buy anything their little darling wants.Wink

This is a bad choice on CCP's part, and I am really ****ed about it. I can barely pay for one account, as I have to support others, and I dont have parents that give me everything I want. the 30 days let me have another account to do something else with, but now..

Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Posted - 2008.05.23 02:43:00 - [295]
 

Originally by: Lamis
Says the person who's Mommy and daddy are rich enough to buy anything their little darling wants.Wink

I'll have you know it's hard work being a little darling! Razz

Daelin Blackleaf
White Rose Society
Posted - 2008.05.23 02:51:00 - [296]
 

If it's the weak dollar causing CCP profit issues shouldn't they increase both the price of GTC and the price of US CC subscriptions? More to the point shouldn't they tell us that's why they are doing this?

Even with the state of the dollar I don't think a price hike of this magnitude is justified.

Jo Shmo
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.05.23 03:03:00 - [297]
 

I would just like to put in my .02 ISK on this matter. I feel that if CCP does implement this, they shouldnt charge us 34.95 for the 60 day card, when a 90 day card currently costs us 38.95. We get charged almost as much for 60 days as we do for 90 days currently, and i find this is unfair. The current 30/90 day pricing scheme gives us a 'bulk discount' for paying for the larger card. Three 30 day cards cost 44.85, 90 days cost 38.95, saving us roughly 14%. The new 60 day cards would actually cost us MORE money to buy. Two 30 days would cost us 29.90, where the 60 day would cost us 34.99, costing us roughly 16% extra. Raising how much you charge players to play the game is a good way to lose a large customer base.

In short, DO NOT change the current pricing scheme, it is a dumb move that while you may think will net you more money in the long run, will actually cause you to lose money, due to players quitting and going to other games that will be coming out soon (Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, Darkfall Online to name a few).

Kazaux Aux
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.05.23 03:29:00 - [298]
 

I don't know if I'm first with this, but... 2 things...

1. Can I have your stuff?

2. My only access to play is buy GTC purchase via isk, and with this it will cost me much more to pay with isk now, where I should be paying roughly the same as I will be soon for 90 days instead of 60, Just that fact makes this change horrible.


Imajihad ju
Posted - 2008.05.23 03:31:00 - [299]
 

Originally by: Shakuul
Shouldn't the tax only be on Value Added...so CCP deducts server expenses and everything before paying the tax (since these are basically inputs that they purchased)? If this is the case, I doubt the impact of the VAT is as drastic as you're making it out to be.

I've no idea if they could even deduct the server expense since the server is part of the value you're paying for (or wish you were paying for given the state of the server). I'm of the opinion that its much closer to the truth to assume that they can deduct only a negligible amount than an appreciable amount. CCP in the past has said that the VAT was more than responsible for the difference in price for Europeans and Americans.

Now that the Dollar has fallen even further Euros are simply paying a higher rate. Oh well. Price discrimination makes the world, and some businesses, go round. Just ask Intel and AMD. The Marginal cost for CCP is tiny. Charging Americans a few dollars less than Europeans doesn't hurt them and given our weakened currency makes sense in order to pick and keep subscribers they wouldn't have at all if they didn't.

Descrambled
Posted - 2008.05.23 03:49:00 - [300]
 

first they announce changing my Helios into an ugly Imicus hull now they are messing around with the 30 day GTC. I am not happy about this crap at all CCP. I guess i will just avoid buying the GTC altogether now. I think this is bad for business but I guess it must be to their gain somehow. but its ****ing off your customers


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