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blankseplocked [issue] enable voting in-game to increase turnout
 
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Solo Player
Posted - 2008.05.22 06:03:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Solo Player on 22/05/2008 06:03:27
Well, it seems there is no real system to support/refute public proposals and get them to CSM members' attention. Let's try this anyway.

rules: start any post with a "AYE" or "NAY" if you want to support/refute the proposed issue and leave a line out for clarity's sake before offering your explicit opinion.

ISSUE:
Low voter turnout hurts both CCP's desire to listen and work with the community to improve the game and the CSM's leverage to really influence CCP's decisions.

PROPOSAL:
Introduction of a system that allows voting directly in-game, possibly with a pop-up window that appears at every login during voting days until a vote has been cast.

Edit: spelling

Kayscha
Posted - 2008.05.22 06:05:00 - [2]
 

AYE

though there should be a way to reduce the risk of random vote casting by annoyed players

Erotic Irony
0bsession
Posted - 2008.05.22 06:19:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Solo Player
ISSUE:
Low voter turnout hurts both CCP's desire to listen and work with the community to improve the game and the CSM's leverage to really influence CCP's decisions.



so naive but, ultimately, too beautiful for this world

Solo Player
Posted - 2008.05.22 06:35:00 - [4]
 

is that a nay?

Leandro Salazar
Quam Singulari
Posted - 2008.05.22 07:23:00 - [5]
 

I gotta agree with this, 10% voter turnout is a horrible thing, and I am thoroughly disappointed in the playerbase for this. If it doesn't improve significantly in the next election I guess the CSM concept fails due to lack of player interest, which would be a shame. And to get the lazy masses to vote, you have to make it easier and more compelling for them. Which means voting in game.

And it might be a good idea if for the next election CCP adopts something like Akita's issue checklist for each candidate (and the spreadsheet that compares all of them in one fell swoop), so people compelled to vote by an annoying popup can check what each candidate stands for without having to read tons of text.

Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Posted - 2008.05.22 07:38:00 - [6]
 

I'd rather we put some thought into *why* the voter turnout was so low, rather than simply assume they didn't hear the loud noises and conclude that they must be made louder.

/Ben

Leandro Salazar
Quam Singulari
Posted - 2008.05.22 07:49:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 22/05/2008 07:49:59
Originally by: Ben Derindar
I'd rather we put some thought into *why* the voter turnout was so low, rather than simply assume they didn't hear the loud noises and conclude that they must be made louder.

/Ben



Well what is the why imho is addressed by my points.

It is not that they didn't hear the noises. It is that the way to the election booth was too long, and that once you made it there, you get a list of candidates with links to some webpages which contain walls of text all of which you would have to read to get a complete picture.

If I had been a regular voter, I would have gone first and foremost by the spreadsheet, and after that maybe looked at the agendas of the handful of people that won the spreadsheet contest. No way in hell that I could be arsed to read all the candidates texts. And if I wasn't a forum regular, I would not even have had that spreadsheet available, so in all likelihood I could not be arsed to vote at all, especially since I have to do it outside the game. And I am a lot more dilligent concerning EVE than many players I know...

Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Posted - 2008.05.22 07:59:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Originally by: Ben Derindar
I'd rather we put some thought into *why* the voter turnout was so low, rather than simply assume they didn't hear the loud noises and conclude that they must be made louder.

Well what is the why imho is addressed by my points.

It is not that they didn't hear the noises. It is that the way to the election booth was too long, and that once you made it there, you get a list of candidates with links to some webpages which contain walls of text all of which you would have to read to get a complete picture.

Oh I agree, my post was more a response to the thread starter's than to yours. Apologies for not making that clear.

CCP's support of the CSM has been a bit hit-and-miss to be sure, but at the same time, this election was the first of its kind. Fingers crossed that mistakes are learned from and that in turn things will be better organised in the future.

/Ben

Bel Amar
Amarr
Sudden Buggery
Situation: Normal
Posted - 2008.05.22 09:19:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Bel Amar on 22/05/2008 09:19:07
Originally by: Leandro
once you made it there, you get a list of candidates with links to some webpages which contain walls of text all of which you would have to read to get a complete picture.
...
And if I wasn't a forum regular, I would not even have had that spreadsheet available, so in all likelihood I could not be arsed to vote at all, especially since I have to do it outside the game. And I am a lot more dilligent concerning EVE than many players I know...


Exactly why I didn't vote. I wasn't going to read walls of text, I don't frequent the appropriate forums, and thus had no way to cast a meaningful vote. In game or out of game, this wouldn't have changed. I eventually found a podcast that let me hear the views of one of the candidates, enough that I thought it was worth voting, but by the time I actually listened to it (I discovered it only recently) voting was closed.

One or two lines of text telling me what someone is about would be enough to know whether or not it's worth looking further. But even that information was hard to find...

arghy steelwill
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.05.22 09:21:00 - [10]
 

The same reason low sec has no one in it is the reason why there was such a low turnout, mo matter what you do you cant get voluntary action when the other end refuses to respond. I bet 8 out of 10 0.0 players voted where you'd be lucky to get 2 out of 10 empire players to vote.

Serenity Steele
Dynamic Data Distribution
Posted - 2008.05.22 09:38:00 - [11]
 

To the OP: I think this is a good idea to have a non-forum based voting system, as we know that a small % of players actually visit the forums. An IG vote would certainly raise awareness, as at the end of the day the splash-screen is "advertising" not a game mechanic. One consideration is how to deal with the OOC from a RP perspective.

It's an interesting point on participation by proportion of the player base in different areas of the game. Perhaps Dr Enjoi would be able to pull up some stats on the participation by location of the user (like in the population statistics).

One thing that was telling is the slight leaning towards Veteran players in the proportion of voting responses. I'd read into that a greater interest from players who are long-term into EVE-online rather than new players.


Jennine Tyler
NewDawn
Posted - 2008.05.22 10:17:00 - [12]
 

I just read the blog about the election results.
My congratulations to all those elected.

I however didnt vote. I was aware that the voting call had gone out; but I didnt know when the deadline was, I didnt see anything from the candidates on the front pages of the eve site. Essentially I didnt yet feel it nessecary to make time to decide who were the most favourable candidates, and cast my vote. Perhaps I had an unreal expectation as to the scale of this event, but that it has managed to slip under the radar of myself and 90% of the eve population is midly concerning.

I hypothesise that only those who are active in the political arena and those who had no idea what the CSM was and a casual interest in finding out abou it, voted.

Bael Thazor
Amarr
Posted - 2008.05.22 11:17:00 - [13]
 

Does anyone else think that real-life cultural issues may have had an impact on the proportion of people voting?

Comparisons have been made between EVE's economic system and that of the real world: it'd be interesting to draw a similar comparison between the political machinations as well. The CSM could be seem as a democratic movement, and in the real world, non-mandatory elections often experience very low voter turnouts. It's interesting that in a digital environment, where voting is such a trivial effort on the part of the voter, the proportion of voters was even lower than you might find in a national democracy such as the United States.

Perhaps in game voting may have solved this issue...perhaps the bulk of EVE players are oblivious to the political happenings and the forums. Maybe some sort of census of the EVE playerbase would be appropriate to ascertain whether or not politics interested them for future elections.

At the end of the day, though, a results is a result; and 10% of players having some sort of input to CCP is an incredible leap forward compared to many of EVE's competitors.

Kelsin
Dirt Dog Trading Company
Posted - 2008.05.22 11:25:00 - [14]
 

In-game voting would be a big improvement, AYE!

Poreuomai
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2008.05.22 12:16:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Poreuomai on 22/05/2008 12:16:22

AYE - as it can't make anything worse if people can vote in-game.

However I don't think it will make much difference.

Whenever the eve client started up, there was some text explaining that an election was taking place - with two links: One to find out about candidates, the other to vote.

If that was not easy enough for people, then I don't think in-game voting would have made a difference.

I would also like to know how many of the subscribers logged into EVE at all during the election.

Sunwillow Auryn
Posted - 2008.05.22 13:05:00 - [16]
 

AYE

It would take some programming, but I think that items available to vote on should be a new category in whatever that thing down the left hand side is called (where char cheet, wallet, market tabs etc are stored). If there is something there that the account has not expressed an opinion on it would be highlighted, and stay highlighted until the time period for that issue expires or an expression of either way is delivered. That would make the items

a) obvious when there's something needs looking at
b) easy to find and vote on
c) something to do to pass the time while in warp or waiting for your strip miners to refresh

Now, if only we knew of a company of developers familiar with EVE code ... ;)

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.05.22 13:12:00 - [17]
 


Well I'm definitely in favor.

Tolis Irithel
Northstar Cabal
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2008.05.22 13:36:00 - [18]
 

AYE - for a handful of reasons.

1) Voter turnout was very low, and specifically slanted in favour of veteran players, as mentioned above. While simply allowing voting in-game is not going to be sufficient to solve this problem, it has the potential to assist with both of the above issues - simplification of voting process will encourage voting across the board, and may allow newer players, perhaps put off by the size or other characteristics of the forums, to vote in greater numbers. I do think part of the low turnout however was a result of an excessive number of candidates, so I'd agree with the suggestion that some method of proposal moderation is worth examining (but hard to find one that isn't also restriction of voter rights to propose suggestions.)

2) Ref: 5% rule for requiring the CSM to put an issue to CCP. It is not necessarily clear, but my interpretation of the regulation in questions suggests that this is 5% of all active players; or, in other terms, equivalent to c.50% of the turnout in the original CSM vote. Linked to turnout point above.

3) Being generally in support of the CSM's remit and objectives, I can't help but think that any method of increasing the visibility of the CSM is a good thing, provided it has little or no impact on their power, which I believe this proposal satisfies.

Kayscha
Posted - 2008.05.22 20:33:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Kayscha on 22/05/2008 20:33:11
Moderators, plz move this to the new forum, will you? :)


 

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