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Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.05.22 03:03:00 - [1]
 

First of all congratulations to the nine Inaugural CSM representatives! In the next three days we have to choose a Vice Chairman, Secretary and Vice Secretary from amongst the eight non-chairman reps on the council. Can I ask you all to review the requirements/specifications for these roles here:

http://myeve.eve-online.com/download/devblog/CSMSummary.pdf

And let me know if you are interested in assuming any of these responsibilities (in-game evemail or post on the thread, either is fine.)

It’s my suggestion we have three simple votes to decide who gets to do what (if there is more than one applicant for each responsibility) and then announce the results prior to the first CSM meeting on Saturday.

I’ll publish a list of candidates volunteering for each position, we’ll all vote on each option (vice chair, secretary, vice secretary) and everything can get rolling.

All the best.

Jade Constantine

CCP Navigator


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.22 09:29:00 - [2]
 

Thread completely cleaned.

Please stay on the subject at hand. Jade Constantine has been designated Chairperson due to the number of votes received and that ruling is final.

Should Jade wish to comment on this matter then it is his decision to do so.

Using this forum and thread to bash each other or goad and harangue other players will result in a warning or ban.



Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
Posted - 2008.05.22 09:32:00 - [3]
 

Thank you Navigator.

I applied for Secretary or Vice Secretary, for the record.

LASER WATCHER
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.05.22 09:33:00 - [4]
 

During your discussions on your open ventrilo session, you promised that if you were to gain the Chairman position, you would immediately relinquish the position and institute a vote among the council members to pick a chairman.

Are you still holding this view or are you reneging on your election promises?

Will this set the tone for time to come?

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2008.05.22 09:34:00 - [5]
 

For the record, I volunteered for vice-chairman.


LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2008.05.22 09:35:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: LASER WATCHER
During your discussions on your open ventrilo session, you promised that if you were to gain the Chairman position, you would immediately relinquish the position and institute a vote among the council members to pick a chairman.

Are you still holding this view or are you reneging on your election promises?

Will this set the tone for time to come?

Originally by: CCP Navigator


Please stay on the subject at hand. Jade Constantine has been designated Chairperson due to the number of votes received and that ruling is final.

Please follow what Navigator said.

If you want to discuss this, please make a seperate thread.

Waterfowl Democracy
The Ministry of Indigenous Affairs
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.05.22 09:36:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: LASER WATCHER
During your discussions on your open ventrilo session, you promised that if you were to gain the Chairman position, you would immediately relinquish the position and institute a vote among the council members to pick a chairman.

Are you still holding this view or are you reneging on your election promises?

Will this set the tone for time to come?

Originally by: CCP Navigator


Please stay on the subject at hand. Jade Constantine has been designated Chairperson due to the number of votes received and that ruling is final.

Please follow what Navigator said.

If you want to discuss this, please make a seperate thread.


Please stay ontopic in this thread.

However, there was a seperate thread for discussion of this issue and it was locked without reason.

LASER WATCHER
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.05.22 09:37:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: LASER WATCHER
During your discussions on your open ventrilo session, you promised that if you were to gain the Chairman position, you would immediately relinquish the position and institute a vote among the council members to pick a chairman.

Are you still holding this view or are you reneging on your election promises?

Will this set the tone for time to come?

Originally by: CCP Navigator


Please stay on the subject at hand. Jade Constantine has been designated Chairperson due to the number of votes received and that ruling is final.

Please follow what Navigator said.

If you want to discuss this, please make a seperate thread.


I am staying on topic, as it is about something Jade had said previously about his position. Please do not goad me, as per CCP Navigator.

CCP Navigator


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.22 09:44:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: LASER WATCHER
During your discussions on your open ventrilo session, you promised that if you were to gain the Chairman position, you would immediately relinquish the position and institute a vote among the council members to pick a chairman.

Are you still holding this view or are you reneging on your election promises?

Will this set the tone for time to come?


Guys and girls,

I am letting this one question stay and will be removing further replies on this subject until such time as Jade replies.

This thread is for the election of a Vice Chairman, Secretary and Vice Secretary and this should be the main meat of the thread.

I appreciate you all have questions that require answers but hi-jacking another thread to do so is not very helpful.

Waterfowl Democracy
The Ministry of Indigenous Affairs
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.05.22 09:46:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: CCP Navigator

Guys and girls,

I am letting this one question stay and will be removing further replies on this subject until such time as Jade replies.

This thread is for the election of a Vice Chairman, Secretary and Vice Secretary and this should be the main meat of the thread.

I appreciate you all have questions that require answers but hi-jacking another thread to do so is not very helpful.



A perfectly reasonable suggestion. Except for the fact that you locked my thread specifically about the issue with no reason given. HYPOCRISY IN ACTION MY FRIEND.

~~~~Waterfowl Democracy, DEFENDER OF DEMOCRACY

Serenity Steele
Dynamic Data Distribution
Posted - 2008.05.22 09:48:00 - [11]
 

Jade, please put me down for Vice Chairman and Secretary. At this stage, I'd say both are a good match for my skills, probably with a leaning towards Vice Chairman.

IMO it's important that the CSM as a group have a discussion about expectations for each role before taking a vote on the positions.

Eg. I have some pretty explicit expectations (as I'm sure others do) around the quality, timing and distribution of transcripts/reporting (Secretary) and ground rules for constructive/civil/technological communication within the CSM.




CCP Navigator


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.22 09:51:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy
Originally by: CCP Navigator

Guys and girls,

I am letting this one question stay and will be removing further replies on this subject until such time as Jade replies.

This thread is for the election of a Vice Chairman, Secretary and Vice Secretary and this should be the main meat of the thread.

I appreciate you all have questions that require answers but hi-jacking another thread to do so is not very helpful.



A perfectly reasonable suggestion. Except for the fact that you locked my thread specifically about the issue with no reason given. HYPOCRISY IN ACTION MY FRIEND.

~~~~Waterfowl Democracy, DEFENDER OF DEMOCRACY


Waterfowl,

Your OP implied we had deleted Jade's thread which was not the case and was locked in kind.

You are more than welcome to start a thread on a given subject as long as it stays within the forum rules (i.e Constructive content, not discussing moderation in the first line etc)

Waterfowl Democracy
The Ministry of Indigenous Affairs
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.05.22 10:15:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Waterfowl Democracy on 22/05/2008 10:17:17
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy
Originally by: CCP Navigator

Guys and girls,

I am letting this one question stay and will be removing further replies on this subject until such time as Jade replies.

This thread is for the election of a Vice Chairman, Secretary and Vice Secretary and this should be the main meat of the thread.

I appreciate you all have questions that require answers but hi-jacking another thread to do so is not very helpful.



A perfectly reasonable suggestion. Except for the fact that you locked my thread specifically about the issue with no reason given. HYPOCRISY IN ACTION MY FRIEND.

~~~~Waterfowl Democracy, DEFENDER OF DEMOCRACY


Waterfowl,

Your OP implied we had deleted Jade's thread which was not the case and was locked in kind.

You are more than welcome to start a thread on a given subject as long as it stays within the forum rules (i.e Constructive content, not discussing moderation in the first line etc)


Perhaps I will let Jade respond in this thread instead. Hope he wakes up soon, I am waiting with baited breath for his response which is certain to be a lot of words.

,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_WaTeRf0vvL dEm0cRaCy_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
DEFENDER OF DEMOCRACY
PRESIDENT OF THE DEMOCRATIC DEFENDERS
NO VOTES FOR THE STUPID

Kis Kecheri
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2008.05.22 11:04:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Kis Kecheri on 22/05/2008 11:20:29
Edited by: Kis Kecheri on 22/05/2008 11:20:08

An easy situation for Jade, not the thorn hoped for by the goons.
It can be handled with minimum friction as shown below.

The first order of business has been set by CCP as Council position election. Personally initiated motions, i.e., re-voting on Chairman, must wait.

Next, after positions are set, Jade can resign and start the re-vote for Chairman.

The results are somewhat predictable. Goons vote no. The other members vote to keep Jade, if only to show up the goons. Especially the ones in this thread.

The animosity perpetrated by the goons toward Jade and the other CSM elected in this and other threads will likely make them more cohesive against attacks from inside or out.

Waterfowl Democracy
The Ministry of Indigenous Affairs
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.05.22 11:38:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Kis Kecheri
Edited by: Kis Kecheri on 22/05/2008 11:20:29
Edited by: Kis Kecheri on 22/05/2008 11:20:08

An easy situation for Jade, not the thorn hoped for by the goons.
It can be handled with minimum friction as shown below.

The first order of business has been set by CCP as Council position election. Personally initiated motions, i.e., re-voting on Chairman, must wait.

Next, after positions are set, Jade can resign and start the re-vote for Chairman.

The results are somewhat predictable. Goons vote no. The other members vote to keep Jade, if only to show up the goons. Especially the ones in this thread.

The animosity perpetrated by the goons toward Jade and the other CSM elected in this and other threads will likely make them more cohesive against attacks from inside or out.


Please attempt to stay on topic in this thread as CCP Navigator asked.

hammyhamm
GoonWaffe
SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
Posted - 2008.05.22 11:48:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: LASER WATCHER
During your discussions on your open ventrilo session, you promised that if you were to gain the Chairman position, you would immediately relinquish the position and institute a vote among the council members to pick a chairman.

Are you still holding this view or are you reneging on your election promises?

Will this set the tone for time to come?

You stole my entire first post from before the thread was cleaned Mad

My question still stands, however.

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.05.22 12:12:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Jade Constantine on 22/05/2008 12:12:53

Originally by: Kis Kecheri

An easy situation for Jade, not the thorn hoped for by the goons. It can be handled with minimum friction as shown below.
The first order of business has been set by CCP as Council position election. Personally initiated motions, i.e., re-voting on Chairman, must wait. Next, after positions are set, Jade can resign and start the re-vote for Chairman. The results are somewhat predictable. Goons vote no. The other members vote to keep Jade, if only to show up the goons. Especially the ones in this thread. The animosity perpetrated by the goons toward Jade and the other CSM elected in this and other threads will likely make them more cohesive against attacks from inside or out.



Morning everyone! Yep, I decided after consultation that the best route forward if I actually want to change the constitution from making the chairman position an automatic post to an elected post was to function as stand-in chairman initially and propose a measure myself for the agenda. This proposal is going to need the seven-day discussion period and 5/9 CSM votes to make the formal agenda for Iceland (as does any other measure). Anybody that desires further debate on that subject is welcome to contribute on the topic when it's formally-raised in the appropriate forum section.

But for now we will follow the process we signed up to follow - hence I'm organizing the vote for the positions currently electable on the CSM (Vice-chair, Secretary, Vice-Secretary) according to the existing constitution.

At this time we have the following interest declared:

Vice President: Serenity, LaVista
Secretary: Serenity, Ankhesentapemkah
Vice Secretary: Ankhesentapemkah

I'm going to keep checking my eve-mail today (and this forum) and I'd invite all candidates to an informal discussion in-game at 22:00 hours eve time tonight - where we'll cover the expectations and requirements in more depth. After this I'll finalize the list of applicants and we'll cast our votes over the next 24 hours (by eve-mail) and I'll publish the outcome in the appropriate forum.

All the best.


Waterfowl Democracy
The Ministry of Indigenous Affairs
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.05.22 12:21:00 - [18]
 

It is unfortunate that Jade has decided to go back upon his words after "consultation" (consultation with whom I must ask). It is interesting to note that reading the CSM.pdf document as written it is not possible to step down as chair after the selection of vices.

"By default, the Representative with the highest vote tally is awarded with the responsibilities of Chairman for the CSM . Within three days of the general election, the Representatives must hold an internal vote to determine a Vice-Chairman, Secretary, and V ice-Secretary. Failure to hold this vote, or if the vote is inconclusive, awards “granting” authority to the Chairman, who may then appoint council members to the other positions as he or she sees fit. If the Chairman decides to step down or rescind his responsibility during this time for
any reason, a vote must be held among Representatives to replace him."

As I'm sure that Jade is aware of this I wonder what he proposed to do after the Vices were elected and it became clear that within the rules he cannot step down.

Jade, please make a choice, step down NOW and a vote will be held for the CSM Chair or fail to step down and show that you can misrepresented yourself during the election.

Kis Kecheri
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2008.05.22 12:23:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy
It is unfortunate that Jade has decided to go back upon his words after "consultation" (consultation with whom I must ask). It is interesting to note that reading the CSM.pdf document as written it is not possible to step down as chair after the selection of vices.

"By default, the Representative with the highest vote tally is awarded with the responsibilities of Chairman for the CSM . Within three days of the general election, the Representatives must hold an internal vote to determine a Vice-Chairman, Secretary, and V ice-Secretary. Failure to hold this vote, or if the vote is inconclusive, awards “granting” authority to the Chairman, who may then appoint council members to the other positions as he or she sees fit. If the Chairman decides to step down or rescind his responsibility during this time for
any reason, a vote must be held among Representatives to replace him."

As I'm sure that Jade is aware of this I wonder what he proposed to do after the Vices were elected and it became clear that within the rules he cannot step down.

Jade, please make a choice, step down NOW and a vote will be held for the CSM Chair or fail to step down and show that you can misrepresented yourself during the election.


Please attempt to stay on topic in this thread as CCP Navigator asked.

Waterfowl Democracy
The Ministry of Indigenous Affairs
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.05.22 12:24:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Kis Kecheri

Please attempt to stay on topic in this thread as CCP Navigator asked.


I am responding to Jade's post relating to a matter of procedure in the CSM process. If you have a personal grievance with me I suggest you take it up via evemails so that I may freely ignore you.

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.05.22 12:25:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Jade Constantine on 22/05/2008 12:25:29

Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy
Jade, please make a choice


Done it.
I've chosen to follow the agreed process for making changes to the constitution.

Now you can make a choice Waterfowl, you can choose to do as I've asked and register your opinions when the matter comes up for formal discussion in CSM issue thread. Or you can choose to continue attempting to de-rail a thread on a different subject. Any which way your question is answered, have a nice day.


CCP Navigator


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.22 12:34:00 - [22]
 

Jade has answered the question so please keep all further posts on the topic at hand, namely the election of a Vice Chairperson, Secretary and Vice Secretary.

Waterfowl Democracy
The Ministry of Indigenous Affairs
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.05.22 12:37:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Waterfowl Democracy on 22/05/2008 12:37:40
^^^ CCP Navigator, this is a topic that deserves discussion and if you will not allow it in this thread I ask that you copy the relevent posts to a new thread for the discussion of this topic.


Originally by: Jade Constantine
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 22/05/2008 12:25:29

Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy
Jade, please make a choice


Done it.
I've chosen to follow the agreed process for making changes to the constitution.

Now you can make a choice Waterfowl, you can choose to do as I've asked and register your opinions when the matter comes up for formal discussion in CSM issue thread. Or you can choose to continue attempting to de-rail a thread on a different subject. Any which way your question is answered, have a nice day.




You stated that after the first meeting in Iceland you would step down as Chair. Only after I showed you that this would not be possible did you declare your position completely.

The proper course of action is in fact for you to step down as you claimed you would. Do you deny that you said that? Do you deny that changing your mind only after the voting has closed and you are elected is a gross betrayal of trust of those subscribers who voted for you?

Why is it that you lack confidence in the CSM process to the degree that you claim you cannot pursue your agenda of changing the Chair election procedure without being Chair yourself? If the CSM is as flawed as you obviously think it is why did you run for election in the first place? Surely an outsider's position would be more effective in this regard.

I'm sorry that you feel discussing a gross betrayal of trust by an elected representative is "off-topic". Do you know who else thought criticism of elected representatives was "off-topic"? Stalin.

Personally I feel that with you as the CSM Chair the CSM will be without direction and unable to make progress on topics that concern the players of eve (those people you claim to serve).

Brachis
Caldari
Eve Liberation Force
OWN Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.22 12:39:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Brachis on 22/05/2008 12:40:51

The problem is that, as written, the document implies that should the Chairman choose to step down, the council cannot choose to reinstate him if he gets the popular vote. It says, very clearly, that it is only to replace the chairman.

In this case, I'm sure Jade would like to be Chair, but wants to make sure that it is the will of the council.

In this case, he would need to remain chair long enough to call the vote to have the process changed in such a manner that a vote could be done in this fashion.

It makes total sense, and he is in no way backing down from his former statement. He is merely making sure that the process is completed exactly by the book.

Edit: Please delete my post if it is out of place. If so, I apologize.

Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
Posted - 2008.05.22 12:40:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine

Morning everyone! Yep, I decided after consultation that the best route forward if I actually want to change the constitution from making the chairman position an automatic post to an elected post was to function as stand-in chairman initially and propose a measure myself for the agenda. This proposal is going to need the seven-day discussion period and 5/9 CSM votes to make the formal agenda for Iceland (as does any other measure). Anybody that desires further debate on that subject is welcome to contribute on the topic when it's formally-raised in the appropriate forum section.



This is a very ellegant political move Jade. Playing by the rules and avoiding direct consequences thus far. You are leaving this to the official CCP process which takes time. No doubt one of the Goon representatives will show support for this and tries to cut down on the time needed to bring this to CCP.

I think you have however no choice. If you don't step down, the Goons will be crying very loud till you do. And no matter how you are trying to avoid or play down the issue, they will scream foul. If the promise to step down as Chairman if elected is true (I don't know this other then this thread), all I can say is, it was a very unwise move you made there.

Anyway good luck as Chairman so far. There seem to be difficult times ahead for you.

Sunwillow Auryn
Posted - 2008.05.22 12:51:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Sunwillow Auryn on 22/05/2008 12:51:58
Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy
I'm sorry that you feel discussing a gross betrayal of trust by an elected representative is "off-topic". Do you know who else thought criticism of elected representatives was "off-topic"? Stalin.


Given that the topic in this instance is on the election of the non-chair positions (get that? NON-chair - let me say again - NOT THE CHAIRMAN), any discussion related to the chairman position is off topic.

Do as CCP say - put it on another thread. It's not that hard to do.

Waterfowl Democracy
The Ministry of Indigenous Affairs
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.05.22 12:53:00 - [27]
 

Removed. Navigator

Sunwillow Auryn
Posted - 2008.05.22 12:57:00 - [28]
 

Reply to moderated post removed - Navigator

Zumina Apoca
Amarr
Apoca Balder Trading
Posted - 2008.05.22 12:58:00 - [29]
 

Not constructive - Navigator

Waterfowl Democracy
The Ministry of Indigenous Affairs
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.05.22 12:58:00 - [30]
 

Removed. Navigator


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