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blankseplocked FW is not out and already sucks!
 
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The Tzar
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2008.05.21 10:48:00 - [61]
 

Hmmm, why do so many people with an agressive dislike of the game and the changes that are made still continue to play?

Because like Pat Butcher from Eastenders they actually enjoy (EvE) but are attention seeking cry-babies that for some reason vent their real life frustrations on a game forum?

Um this is what friends and family are for, not strangers. Especially trench coat wearing, sweetie holding, forum-o-files like me Twisted Evil
I feed off your despair and pathetic neediness like nos to a cap battery.

Dani Leone
Gallente
Positively Idle
Posted - 2008.05.21 11:11:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra

I am suspecting that you are either deliberately trying to generalize your case, or are simply way too romantic.
There are many 0.0 alliances members simply look down upon the empire residents. I am pretty sure that this won't change because FW came into scene.

And if you think that this FW will be about big fleets and all that, i would suggest you re-read the blogs and notice that they are emphasizing on the small scale warfare aspect, and not the huge fleet warfare reality of 0.0.

My take on this is that they are indeed willingly avoid to resolve the mechanic limitations for alliances to participate in that, but not for an obscure reason that only a conspiracy theory can reveal.

They want to avoid over sized fleets forming. Fleets that would be consisted by one or at most two alliances and some random guys. Not that they may not happen, but now their solution tries to minimize the risk of one or two alliances doing it. It will have to take a co operation of many corps/people who don't necessarily belong to the same alliance.

As i said RP alliances get the shaft mainly, since this decision excludes them from the purpose they were formed in the first place. 0.0 alliances were built for other purposes and these purposes have nothing to do with Factional Warfare.
Still despite the bitterness you may see in the posts of members of RP alliances, they all agree that is a necessity that will help instead of hinder the bigger picture.


If I am generalizing, it's because I think the point is generally applicable.

And I know that CCP have structured this in order to prevent large fleets forming, I am saying I disagree with their methods of doing so because Eve is a sandbox and quite clearly players will go to great lengths to subvert CCP's initial wishes and desires and that's when CCP don't actively encourage them to do so like they are doing by telling them to form alt corps.
So no, I can't say that I think that this way round things helps stop the blobs or would prevent an empire incursion by large motivated 0.0 Alliances.

If I were designing a way around this to give the RP alliances what they want but not encourage the big 0.0 entities to come 'farm' I would put in place a system that allows the Alliances to align themselves with or against a faction but receive no economic benefit from doing so.

So Alliance pilots could take on missions grab objectives etc but get 0 loyalty points and 0 isk only faction standings and medals ranks.

I suspect this would suit groups like CVA and your own EM down to the ground because why would you be interested in cash rewards that a mercenary might expect?

As for groups that didn't like the idea of constantly being attacked by Faction Navy ships each time they wanted to move a freighter full of reactions to Jita or some such, they would probably choose not to join in.

omglollolol
Posted - 2008.05.21 11:14:00 - [63]
 

Quit whining, .. but whatthehell do i care, whine if it makes you shut up afterwards.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2008.05.21 11:24:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Dani Leone


And I humbly disagree that *only* RP alliances get the shaft. There could easily be members of BOB, Goons etc who have great pride in their Alliances and achievements and would like to bring their esprit de corps to Faction Warfare, but would not seriously consider breaking their alliance apart so that they could join their individual corps to the Faction militias.



Explain slowly and carefully how you see the different corps of BOB or Goonswarm joining FW.

All in one empire faction? Probably not all the corps have the standing for that and not all the different corps want to support the same faction.

Different corps within BOB or Goonswarm joining different militias but staying within the 0.0 alliance? What would happen when they meet each other on the battlefield?

A RP alliance, create with the specific intent of being linked to one of the Empires could join the FW as an entity, but 0.0 alliances that were structured only thinking about 0.0 politics and not about Empire politics would be a disaster if allowed in FW.


MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2008.05.21 11:30:00 - [65]
 

instead of working on getting allainces into FW lets hope they focus on changing allaince wars into something fun.

hopefully including planets.

Siberys
Gallente
Experimental Horizons
Posted - 2008.05.21 11:30:00 - [66]
 

the OP acts like it would kill him/her to leave the rest of us alone about his/her problems. Make an alt, leave your corp, I don't care, just keep your rants to yourself.

Dani Leone
Gallente
Positively Idle
Posted - 2008.05.21 12:17:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Dani Leone


And I humbly disagree that *only* RP alliances get the shaft. There could easily be members of BOB, Goons etc who have great pride in their Alliances and achievements and would like to bring their esprit de corps to Faction Warfare, but would not seriously consider breaking their alliance apart so that they could join their individual corps to the Faction militias.



Explain slowly and carefully how you see the different corps of BOB or Goonswarm joining FW.

All in one empire faction? Probably not all the corps have the standing for that and not all the different corps want to support the same faction.

Different corps within BOB or Goonswarm joining different militias but staying within the 0.0 alliance? What would happen when they meet each other on the battlefield?

A RP alliance, create with the specific intent of being linked to one of the Empires could join the FW as an entity, but 0.0 alliances that were structured only thinking about 0.0 politics and not about Empire politics would be a disaster if allowed in FW.




I will do no such thing.

But, I'll ask you to read what you quoted again, paying particular attention to 'Esprit de Corps' and also the last part of the comment relating to my thoughts on BoB or Goonswarm breaking up to join FW, I said they would not seriously consider breaking their alliance apart so that they could join their individual corps to the Faction militias.

So it seems we are probably in agreement if I am understanding the tone of your comment correctly. :P

Syniztur
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
Posted - 2008.05.21 12:38:00 - [68]
 

"Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!" comes to mind when reading the OP shyt.

Seriously, Hasn't this thread and the hundreds others like it already been bashed around enough? Talk about beating a dead horse... quick somebody post their Raven setup!

You don't even know if the xpac will be exactly what they say it will. How can it suck before it's even released?
Why don't you bytch about how you don't mine because it's more oriented towards carebears? Or you don't rat because that isn't oriented towards you or your corp/alliance. How about all the other crap you choose not to participate in?

Why is it that everybody thinks that every single aspect of the game UNIVERSE should pertain to them and their corp specifically? Honestly, you must know that you aren't doing everything in the game right? Being in your current corp doesn't allow you the ability to do stuff other corps do... so why all the fuss? You don't even want FW... you only think you do because you were told you can't have it. Stick your head back in the sand.

Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Emptiness.
Posted - 2008.05.21 13:37:00 - [69]
 

I don't have a problem with not being able to participate in FW, because, at my eyes the proposed FW will not be attractive.

But what i have issues on is adding nothing else for all the rest of players.

They coudl very well have used the faction warfare excuse to add a lot of faction ships. You know very well that is not that much work to make for example navy version of tier 1 Battleships etc..

This expansion as of now is made solely for players with only a couple of months in game that want to learn to PVP in a slightly more fair ground. Although is good to have a goal and a target to transform your comunity into a more risk friendly one ... supplying new content for more experienced players is and will always be a very important part of any expansion that is to be successful.

Da'iel Zehn
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.05.21 13:38:00 - [70]
 

Edited by: Da''iel Zehn on 21/05/2008 13:40:46

Originally by: TheG2
Corps can join the war, however corps within alliances can't. Its very simple.


boooo! i wanted to take part. Sad

Well, that is okay I guess. I'm training a new alt, so I'll just use it instead.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2008.05.21 14:13:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Dani Leone
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Dani Leone


And I humbly disagree that *only* RP alliances get the shaft. There could easily be members of BOB, Goons etc who have great pride in their Alliances and achievements and would like to bring their esprit de corps to Faction Warfare, but would not seriously consider breaking their alliance apart so that they could join their individual corps to the Faction militias.





Explain slowly and carefully how you see the different corps of BOB or Goonswarm joining FW.

All in one empire faction? Probably not all the corps have the standing for that and not all the different corps want to support the same faction.

Different corps within BOB or Goonswarm joining different militias but staying within the 0.0 alliance? What would happen when they meet each other on the battlefield?

A RP alliance, create with the specific intent of being linked to one of the Empires could join the FW as an entity, but 0.0 alliances that were structured only thinking about 0.0 politics and not about Empire politics would be a disaster if allowed in FW.




I will do no such thing.

But, I'll ask you to read what you quoted again, paying particular attention to 'Esprit de Corps' and also the last part of the comment relating to my thoughts on BoB or Goonswarm breaking up to join FW, I said they would not seriously consider breaking their alliance apart so that they could join their individual corps to the Faction militias.

So it seems we are probably in agreement if I am understanding the tone of your comment correctly. :P


Then let me explain my point slowly and carefully.

BOB or Goonswarm (or other alliances) will not break the alliance to join the different faction in FW and it appears we will take that as granted.

So what will happen if members of the alliances were allowed to join individually (as a lot of people are asking) and they meet members of the same alliance but in the opposing fleet? They will have to choose between breaking the alliance bond or the militia bond.

The almost guarantee decision to break the militia bond would make the whole FW concept a mockery. Member of your one militia will start firing on the other members of the same militia and help supposed enemies.

At the same time mixing in the same militia unit members of different hostile alliance will spark combat within the militia before ever meeting the enemy.

If the players were allowed to keep separated loyalties and interests than with the faction they have chosen the whole faction war concept will crash like a card castle in a gale.

You see a solution for this?

Dani Leone
Gallente
Positively Idle
Posted - 2008.05.21 16:15:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul

Then let me explain my point slowly and carefully.

BOB or Goonswarm (or other alliances) will not break the alliance to join the different faction in FW and it appears we will take that as granted.

So what will happen if members of the alliances were allowed to join individually (as a lot of people are asking) and they meet members of the same alliance but in the opposing fleet? They will have to choose between breaking the alliance bond or the militia bond.

The almost guarantee decision to break the militia bond would make the whole FW concept a mockery. Member of your one militia will start firing on the other members of the same militia and help supposed enemies.

At the same time mixing in the same militia unit members of different hostile alliance will spark combat within the militia before ever meeting the enemy.

If the players were allowed to keep separated loyalties and interests than with the faction they have chosen the whole faction war concept will crash like a card castle in a gale.

You see a solution for this?


It's not something I am asking for, or proposing as a solution because it is plainly obvious it wouldn't work.
It would be ridiculous for a corp or Alliance to have members who are legally at war with other members.

I already said what I think would work, which is to allow the entire Alliance to align itself with or against one faction or another without actually becoming a member of it or benefiting economically from this, instead it would gain and lose standings to the other factions based on its actions.

However, what I am not understanding here Venkul no matter how slowly and carefully you explain it, is why you are addressing these particular set of concerns to me.

I think it is because you misunderstood and possibly continue to misunderstand some of my initial points.
So I'll ask you to read them again, because I'd like you to explain to me what I have said that suggests to you I am for and advocating that:

a) individual member corps of alliances should be able to join various factions without leaving an alliance

b) that the members of a corp should be able to do the same.

Because if something I've written is giving you that impression I'd like the opportunity to correct it.

OneSock
Crown Industries
Posted - 2008.05.21 16:37:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Torze

Factional warfare is being implented to help bring PvP content to a larger percentage of Eve. To allow people to get their feet wet.



Well that's MEGA FAIL right there. You talking about high sec industrial corps, who can't afford to be in a state of perpetual war, high sec carebear missioning corps etc, who again won't want to end up being poor from being ganked all day. It means nothing to the small PVP corps as they already infect low sec and NPC 0.0.

If they wanted to allow people to get their feet wet they would arrange it so that people could remain in their corps as usual, but would become war targets for the duration of a FW mission.

Sure you can always gang to someone who is part of the malitia faction to participate, but that wont get you any of the FW benefits such as standing and rankings etc.

I think FW should be something you can dip into from time to time not something you have to commit to.


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