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blankseplocked Interdependence: Good, Bad, or Indifferent?
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Situation: Normal
Posted - 2008.05.20 05:36:00 - [1]

Edited by: Wrayeth on 20/05/2008 05:42:25
Even though the voting is closed, some of the candidates will have been elected. As such, I'd like to put forth the question for them to consider: has EVE developed too much interdependence?

Over time, CCP has been introducing more ships, modules, and other game mechanics that will only function properly when grouped with other ships/modules/mechanics. Recons, for instance, are largely craptastic on their own, but gang them with some damage dealers and suddenly they're extremely effective. Buffer-tanked, remote-repping BS gangs? Capital ships in general? More examples of interdependence of ships and modules.

Then there are indirect examples of interdependency, such as supertanks. Supertanks are so strong that they cannot be broken 1-v-1 or cannot be broken in a reasonable time to allow the attacker a chance at victory. As such, they require the attacker to bring more people in order to break the tank. Caldari in general are another good example of this, as many Caldari ships must gimp their tanks to fit tackle. As such, thy are frequently forced to rely on gangmates to tackle for them. POS warfare? Probably the most extreme example in EVE, and one that many do not find amusing in any way, shape, or form.

It's my considered opinion that it has gone too far. Teamwork is good. Group play is good. Enforced versions of either are very much NOT good. It used to be the case that you weren't forced into any one playstyle by the game mechanics and had a whole range of options to choose from: solo, small gang, large gang, fleet. You could be effective in any of them and find it quite enjoyable. These days, though, solo and small gang work have fallen by the wayside due to a number of changes that, directly or indirectly, force reliance on other gang members.

So, Candidates, what do you think? Has interdependence gone to far, is it right where it needs to be, or should CCP be implementing still more interdependent game mechanics/ships/modules?

EDIT: My apologies if this isn't as clear, concise, and well-organized as it should be. I'm tired. Neutral

Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2008.05.20 06:13:00 - [2]

Well, I believe the reason they're stressing interdependence right now is because there are a good number of solo vessels already in the game. Admittedly, it's almost as if they're encouraging blob warfare, but it's an inevitable outcome of encouraging team play.

Solo vessels, like the Megathron, Rifter, Thorax, Rupture, etc., already are potent enough for one-man piracy, but people always want more, more, more... The devs, I believe, are simply giving players what they want (the uber-tank for the price of no tackling, as you mentioned).

Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Posted - 2008.05.20 07:27:00 - [3]

Originally by: Bunyip
Well, I believe the reason they're stressing interdependence right now is because there are a good number of solo vessels already in the game. Admittedly, it's almost as if they're encouraging blob warfare, but it's an inevitable outcome of encouraging team play.

and this would pe berfectly cool if the server infrastructure, network stack and client could handle that.

We all know that is not the case. Perhaps in the labs, but not in a lesser known system somewhere in 0.0 or rens/jita/ours

The encouragement of teamplay has gone far enough, the sovereignity fortresses cannot be taken
by anything less than hundrets of battleships, instalag on jump in - while the defener is waiting on grid

all this is influencing the game in a way it was (hopefully) not intended.

I think the specialized ships are cool, but far too expensive given theyre one-trick ponys.

But i dont think the solo pilots have reason to complain - there are plenty general multipurpouse vessels around there to maintain some fun. At least i have yet a lot of ships to try .. and i am an old fart, who so far specialized on one race mainly. When that gets boring i can still switch to Gaylente and Caldari, or even consider flying the golden weapon of the enemy....

from here i could feed this post with generic crap nobody is reading so far anyways
the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy
following is an article from financial times just to see if anyone is reading massive
posts like this at all
The US is starting to break its “addiction” to foreign oil as high prices, more efficient cars, and the use of ethanol significantly cut the share of its oil imports for the first time since 1977.

The country’s foreign oil dependency is expected to fall from 60 per cent to 50 per cent in 2015, before rising again slightly to 54 per cent in 2030, according to the head of the Department of Energy’s statistical arm.

The net imports of the world’s biggest consumer are expected to fall between now and 2030, ending what has been an almost relentless 30-year climb in the use of foreign oil and a fall in domestic production. In 2006, George W. Bush said in his State of the Union speech that America was “addicted to oil” – often imported from unstable parts of the world – and said he would work to address the issue.

On Monday, oil prices hovered near record highs as China’s energy needs outweighed the reduced US demand, and Saudi Arabia output increases failed to ease supply concerns.

The US decline in foreign oil dependency is already becoming more visible, with imports making up 57.9 per cent in the first three months of this year, down from 58.2 last year.

Guy Caruso, head of the US Energy Information Administration, said that that trend was set to continue as people adjusted to high oil prices and the impact of the Energy Independence and Security Act, which became law in December 2007, was felt.

“The 1970s is the last time we saw any significant decline in net import dependency in the US. It shows that markets do work, policy changes do work, technology does work,” Mr Caruso said.

This new trend is likely to have domestic and international policy implications, making it harder to prove the case for drilling in Alaska’s Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and to reverse the ambitious biofuels production targets regardless of their impact on global food prices.

Although the reduction in oil demand growth is partly because of slower economic growth and a projected 1m-barrel-a-day rise in output from the US’s Gulf of Mexico oil fields by 2012, experts also believe that legislation will accelerate the trend. The EIA expects the energy act to help boost biofuel production from 8bn gallons this year to at least 32bn by 2030, while prompting a 40 per cent efficiency improvement in new cars from 2020.

Congress’s efficiency mandates – the first since those passed in the w

Claire Lacombe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.05.20 10:15:00 - [4]

Edited by: Claire Lacombe on 20/05/2008 10:15:49
Originally by: zoolkhan
great stuff

Very interesting points zoolkhan. I hope you win a spot.

Posted - 2008.05.20 14:40:00 - [5]


Do you think they should also publish the affect on food prices now that we are feeding our cars instead?

Situation: Normal
Posted - 2008.05.22 02:01:00 - [6]

Bah. Epic derail. Evil or Very Mad

I really wanted to find out what the CSM folks thought about the issue.

Cyber Claw
Black Water.
Posted - 2008.05.22 17:09:00 - [7]

Edited by: Cyber Claw on 22/05/2008 17:27:31
lol, using an article on oil to test the attention span of fellow forum readers is bad mmm'kay. it does seem as though most recent and current changes to the game are leaning more and more toward interdependency.

State Protectorate
Posted - 2008.06.08 16:01:00 - [8]

I like the interdepenance. I hope they add it for stuff like missions as well. A MMO needs to have interaction, not be like AoC where you can pretty much cap out solo (or get damn close).Confused


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