open All Channels
seplocked Jita Park Speakers Corner
blankseplocked CSM Rep Request - FW encouraging the breakup of player corps
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Author Topic

Draekas Darkwater
Posted - 2008.05.19 22:33:00 - [1]
 

Ok, I know the election is over, and yet the winners have yet to be annouced. However, due to the FW dev blog today, it clearly has a huge error in design that needs immediate attention on behalf of my corp, myself and those who feel the same way.

A short rant, with the issue at hand:

Quote:
This has to be one of the most boneheaded design decisions I've ever seen. Joining in FW should have been kept 100% apart from the corp/alliance system. Totally seperate.

This expansion is purportedly designed to help the carebear, high sec hugging masses to try out PvP? And the first design choice they make, is to make you have to leave your long time carebear corps to participate? Who the hell thought that was a good idea?

So why not get my whole corp to join? Well frack, we're a mostly carebear corp! Not everyone is going to want to participate, and if the corp joins, those who don't want to suddenly become war targets, get limited high sec access (FU traders, explorers, ect).

So either those who want to participate have to leave the corp to do so.. or the corp can sign up, but those who don't want to participate have to leave the corp to avoid the consequences they dont want to partake in. Either way, the carebear corps get fracked up the arse.

So many of us were looking forward to getting involved, but now.. **** me if I'll jump through all these hoops just to participate in something that was supposedly aimed at players like myself who so far have generally avoided PvP in this game.


This in response to today's blog, and this quote by CCP Ginger

Originally by: CCP Ginger
Originally by: Fakespace

Player in a corperation in an allicance are/are not allowed to enlist (Signing up as an individual) ?



To sign up as an individual, you cannot be in a corporation, and therefore, not an alliance.


So either by intentional design, or unintended consequences, the design of FW is geared towards the breakup of player corps just to participate in it. This is just so wrong on every level. I tend to think that the designers have done this to prevent alliance members from joining individually. However, as a result, high sec corps all over empire will be excluded and/or damaged as players leave to participate or avoid participation if thier corps sign up.

So, as I understand the function of the CSMs to bring player concerns to the forefront, all I can ask is to raise this issue with them, before it is set in stone.

Thanks!

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.05.19 22:48:00 - [2]
 


I think you've actually got an hour or so still to vote Draekas.

But to your point, rest assured I've got a great interest in seeing Faction Warfare refined and delivered correctly. Rest assured these issues will be high on the agenda if I'm lucky enough to be elected and have anything to say about it!

Darius JOHNSON
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.05.20 00:17:00 - [3]
 

Not allowing corps to participate by creating artificial barriers is something I've been pretty disappointed with having read the initial requirements. Members of longstanding corps or alliances are now not allowed to experience new content? I think we're at the least owed a ham-handed explanation.

Erotic Irony
0bsession
Posted - 2008.05.20 02:00:00 - [4]
 

Quote:
CSM Rep Request - FW encouraging the breakup of player corps


this sounds like a ****ty human interest story

Rico Minali
Gallente
Sons Of 0din
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2008.05.20 07:47:00 - [5]
 

I completely agree Draekas, I am in a 0.0 corp and alliance but I like my trips to empire and was really hoping to get involved in faction warfare but unless I leave my corp (which I dont want to do) I can't and that sucks, everyone pays the same to play Eve, no one should be blocked out of a large new aspect of play like this.

Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
Posted - 2008.05.20 08:23:00 - [6]
 

One of my campaign points was to get FW interesting for each and every type of player and by deliberately excluding large portions of the playerbase CCP's doing exactly the opposite. You can count on it that it'll be a hot item for me, whenether I get elected or not.

Inanna Zuni
Minmatar
The Causality
Electus Matari
Posted - 2008.05.20 10:16:00 - [7]
 

I'm on record in multiple threads that the way FW is currently defined leaves a lot to be desired, however I can see that there are some pilots who will be able to enjoy all the new shinies and paths a lot. Those of us in long-term corps and alliances though - especially the RP ones - won't get to play at the moment it seems and will have to forego the very things we had been awaiting.

CCP and the devs have said that FW is some 'intermediate' between empire 'carebear' and 0.0 pilot factions, and that FW will introduce people to some of the nullsec ideas and activities. What I haven't seen anywhere yet though is how you would wean someone away from the FW and into pilot alliance 0.0 as currently it seems you would give up all you gained from the FW activities when you moved on.

IZ

Sunwillow Auryn
Posted - 2008.05.20 11:58:00 - [8]
 

I am CEO of my own little corp of a dozen or so members - we mind our own business researching, building, missioning - carving out a living in high sec. I am not expecting many of my members to split out (many of them have more combat-heavy alts and they get their fighting kicks elsewhere).

My solution to this issue would be to allow individual membership to the faction war, and have the corp the player is in marked as a 'neutral sympathiser' without all of the rest of the corp being required to participate. Naturally a corp could only stay on one 'side' - while it could declare tacit support for the glorious Caldari State, it may also be allowed to support the noble Amarrian Empire, but would not be permitted to have members supporting the cheese-eating surrender monkeys or the escaped slaves.

The CEO of these 'neutral sympathisers' could even on occassion be asked to provide support 'on the sly' to their chosen faction in terms of funds or mods, or materials, which could either be met from the corporate bank account or passed on to the member(s) actually involved in the war to meet on behalf of the corp.

Draekas Darkwater
Posted - 2008.05.21 02:51:00 - [9]
 

I just dont understand the reasoning. Even if they are adamant about keeping alliances out, as a side effect they are keeping hundreds of regular, non alliance corps out as well. While I greatly sympathize with the RP alliances in this, even if I buy into the design decision to exclude alliances, I still don't understand why regular corp members are being excluded.

I'm no expert coder or anything, but I'd have thought that a few IF statements and DB queries to see if you're in an alliance while signing up, or to remove all corp members from the militia when your corp joins an alliance should do the job just fine.

So unless there is some underlying reason as to why they had to reuse the corp/alliance mechanic to make FW work period, then I just don't get why they've done just that. Maybe the wardec code just isn't extendable to "meta corps", as my vision of a militia would be, where anyone could join without leaving thier player groups.

Ma Zhiqiang
Minmatar
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2008.05.21 10:23:00 - [10]
 

CCP commented that they were aware of alliances/corps/alt corps etc, and that it would be "easy" to maintain within an alliance for example, by using a custom channel.

In my views, it more seems like a flaw in the game design to me. You should get the proper game tools that didn't force you to go around the problem by using alts or such to play the game properly.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2008.05.21 12:33:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Venkul Mul on 21/05/2008 12:34:40


Let's look it this way:

Step 1:
CCP allow the single player partecipate in the Faction War, without need to leave the alliance or the corp if the corp is not interested to faction war.

Step 2:
the player enter combat with a FW gang against a enemy FW gang, but in the other gang there is a member of his Corporation or Alliance. What will happen?

Player fire on the corp/alliance mate and get reprimended/expulsed by the corp/alliance?

Player don't fire/leave, so damaging his new FW companions?

Player join his corp/alliance mate attacking his gang?

The current system require the player (and is corporation) to decide before the actual meeting what they want to do. If they feel that alliance/corporation loyalty is primary (and the corporation don't want to join as a single body) they should leave FW alone.

I don't see any mechanic that will allow the player to keep affiliation with corporations and alliances not involved in FW and avoid problems with meeting alliance friends but FW enemies on the battefield.


Anas Damona
The Orthography Commandos
Posted - 2008.05.21 12:43:00 - [12]
 

I don't know how many CSM Candidate threads I read, less than sixty anyway, but one phrase I saw a lot was 'I don't claim to be all things for all people.' Well EVE is not all things for all players, and how could we expect factional warfare to be either? Nobody will be forced to do anything, but everybody has a choice: stick with the corp you have supported over the months and years, or join your empire's militia and fight for their cause. Anyone with an interest in roleplaying can roleplay the hell out of that, it's a tough choice to make.
So don't cry to CCP about how it's not fair, make a decision.

Draekas Darkwater
Posted - 2008.05.21 14:31:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Anas Damona
I don't know how many CSM Candidate threads I read, less than sixty anyway, but one phrase I saw a lot was 'I don't claim to be all things for all people.' Well EVE is not all things for all players, and how could we expect factional warfare to be either? Nobody will be forced to do anything, but everybody has a choice: stick with the corp you have supported over the months and years, or join your empire's militia and fight for their cause. Anyone with an interest in roleplaying can roleplay the hell out of that, it's a tough choice to make.
So don't cry to CCP about how it's not fair, make a decision.


True. However, CCP's own reasoning for this expansion isn't to make RP happy or to give existing PvPers something new to do, it was to encourage carebears to try out PvP in a somewhat more controlled environment.

So if they're being truthful in stating thier design goals for this expansion, then the implementation that leaves carebears in high sec corps out in the cold seems to indicate a major design flaw.


 

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only