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blankseplocked Change 'less than a day' on contracts
 
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Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2008.05.18 07:26:00 - [1]
 

It's so uninformative. Is it really so hard to say '7 hours remaining'? If I'm bidding on an auction contract I'd rather like to know how long before it expires. I'm quite happy for 'less than an hour remaining' to avoid last minute bid problems, but less than a day seems a bit excessive.

Jinx Barker
Caldari
GFB Scientific
Posted - 2008.05.18 08:35:00 - [2]
 

Oh, dear God, please do what the OP suggests... such a small thing, but so annoying.

I lost number of contracts because I am not crazy enough to stay up for the remaining hours of the day, just because it says less than a day. At least I can set an alarm clock, for something that I really, really, really want.

Hesod Adee
Dark-Rising
Posted - 2008.05.18 10:15:00 - [3]
 

I've seen a contract with "less than an hour" on it. Problem is I didn't have any clue about when it would switch from day to hour until after it did.

So I'd suggest the following:

1 - Give the exact end time.

2 - An auto-bid system. You specify your maximum bid and it is held in escrow. Whenever your not the winning bid this will instantly place the minimum bid required to become the winner, unless it is over your max bid. If two people set auto bids, then they will alternate between each other till the price gets too high for one of them. Now you don't need to stay up to watch the auction, just set your max price and log off confident that you will win unless the price goes too high.

I've seen this auto bidding system called proxy bidding elsewhere. And I've seen people accuse this system of being a bot on Guild Wars auctioning sites.

Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2008.05.18 11:55:00 - [4]
 

Exact time and an auto-bid system would also work; it is still prone to last minute bids, but then just about any system is, so I'd be all in favour of this too.

Belatu Cadro
Minmatar
Kinda'Shujaa
Posted - 2008.05.18 19:11:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Astria Tiphareth
It's so uninformative. Is it really so hard to say '7 hours remaining'? If I'm bidding on an auction contract I'd rather like to know how long before it expires. I'm quite happy for 'less than an hour remaining' to avoid last minute bid problems, but less than a day seems a bit excessive.


There is a very valid reason why it is like this, it prevents "sniper" bidding, if you know exactly how long is left you can wait till the very last moment, and then make a bid that can not be defeated.

Hesod Adee
Dark-Rising
Posted - 2008.05.19 01:02:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Belatu Cadro
Originally by: Astria Tiphareth
It's so uninformative. Is it really so hard to say '7 hours remaining'? If I'm bidding on an auction contract I'd rather like to know how long before it expires. I'm quite happy for 'less than an hour remaining' to avoid last minute bid problems, but less than a day seems a bit excessive.


There is a very valid reason why it is like this, it prevents "sniper" bidding, if you know exactly how long is left you can wait till the very last moment, and then make a bid that can not be defeated.


Would sniper bids be a problem with an auto bid system ?

If there is an auto bid set above the snipers bid, the sniper will instantly be outbid. If there isn't, sniper wins because they have the highest bid.

Kitoba
Minmatar
Legion of Dynamic Discord
Posted - 2008.05.19 01:12:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Hesod Adee

Would sniper bids be a problem with an auto bid system ?


Yes, sure, have a look at eBay and add timezone problems.

A bids x isk, going to bed. Auction ends at the time e's beginning to grind real-life money.
B waits until 30 secs to auction ends, bids x-100 isk.
B sees A bid more, bids x+n isk, getting the stuff for x+0.01 isk.

Wren Alterana
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2008.05.19 02:19:00 - [8]
 

but that happens irl too, there's nothing wrong with it

Hesod Adee
Dark-Rising
Posted - 2008.05.19 06:51:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Kitoba
Originally by: Hesod Adee

Would sniper bids be a problem with an auto bid system ?


Yes, sure, have a look at eBay and add timezone problems.

A bids x isk, going to bed. Auction ends at the time e's beginning to grind real-life money.
B waits until 30 secs to auction ends, bids x-100 isk.
B sees A bid more, bids x+n isk, getting the stuff for x+0.01 isk.

So your saying that its a problem because player B can win by outbidding the maximum that A was willing to pay ?

Isn't that how you are meant to win auctions ?

Also don't forget the minimum bid increment.

Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2008.05.20 14:08:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 20/05/2008 14:17:24
Originally by: Belatu Cadro
There is a very valid reason why it is like this, it prevents "sniper" bidding, if you know exactly how long is left you can wait till the very last moment, and then make a bid that can not be defeated.


This is an illogical argument. In practice all the current system means is that whoever happens to be around when the auction expires wins, because they happen to be there to bid. Last-minute bidding can still happen because if it shows 'less than an day' and you have an RL reason to leave in 3 hours (say, sleep), the best you can do is bid and hope that no-one bids after that.

In other words, sniper bidding already happens. Changing the system to an hour granularity instead of a day changes nothing.

Consider a week-long bid on a cruiser. I'm prepared to pay, say, max 10 million, for whatever reason. I could just bid 10 million immediately, but then I've not bothered with an auction, I've just tried to buy it for that; I might as well have put a buy order out.

Instead I bid a low amount, hoping to get it for that. If later I'm out-bid and online, I can bid higher. However, 'sniping' can still occur that out-bids me at a time when I'm not around. That's why eBay has an automated system. Less than a day, less than an hour, it makes no odds to sniper bidding, it will still happen.

Zirconium Blade
Ass Pounding Space Monkeys
Posted - 2008.05.20 15:30:00 - [11]
 

I would be very interested to know why contract auctions do not state their end time, AFAIK no one has ever answered this.

Whip Slagcheek
Posted - 2008.05.20 18:30:00 - [12]
 

EBay like features as these people have mentioned would be great.
Exact time contract is up and a "max willing to pay" autobid thingy.

Belatu Cadro
Minmatar
Kinda'Shujaa
Posted - 2008.05.22 21:45:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Astria Tiphareth
Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 20/05/2008 14:17:24
Originally by: Belatu Cadro
There is a very valid reason why it is like this, it prevents "sniper" bidding, if you know exactly how long is left you can wait till the very last moment, and then make a bid that can not be defeated.


This is an illogical argument. In practice all the current system means is that whoever happens to be around when the auction expires wins, because they happen to be there to bid. Last-minute bidding can still happen because if it shows 'less than an day' and you have an RL reason to leave in 3 hours (say, sleep), the best you can do is bid and hope that no-one bids after that.

In other words, sniper bidding already happens. Changing the system to an hour granularity instead of a day changes nothing.

Consider a week-long bid on a cruiser. I'm prepared to pay, say, max 10 million, for whatever reason. I could just bid 10 million immediately, but then I've not bothered with an auction, I've just tried to buy it for that; I might as well have put a buy order out.

Instead I bid a low amount, hoping to get it for that. If later I'm out-bid and online, I can bid higher. However, 'sniping' can still occur that out-bids me at a time when I'm not around. That's why eBay has an automated system. Less than a day, less than an hour, it makes no odds to sniper bidding, it will still happen.


astria the argument is not illogical at all, say there is something on the market that you are willing to pay 10million isk for, but the current bid is low so you bid 8million, youre willing to go up by another 2mil, if I know exactly when the auction ends i can just wait till teh last 5 seconds and bid 8million+0.01isk, if you had the time you would have raised your bid but I made sure you didn't, that's bad for the seller and buyer.

Washell Olivaw
Posted - 2008.05.22 21:59:00 - [14]
 

Don't fly what you can't afford to lose. And once you can afford to lose it, paying the buy-out price is no biggie. I don't see the issue.

adriaans
Amarr
Ankaa.
Nair Al-Zaurak
Posted - 2008.05.22 23:15:00 - [15]
 

oohh please add that, its incredibly annoying not knowing whether it ends in 1 hour or 14 hours!


 

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