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TWD
Minmatar
Evolution
KenZoku
Posted - 2008.05.28 14:29:00 - [241]
 

Originally by: HotSeat

1. PL fight people, thats all we do, thats it, nothing but fight. So, when we find people that will fight us back, we are happy little eve'rs. We sat in Bob home systems and fought them until they gave up and turned to Blob / mass cap fleet tactics- aka lag fighting. So we went to fountian for a quick holiday, and Bruce turned it into a war.



Yeah, I remember that! I'm sorry that people gave up fighting your cruiser gangs on their own when travelling around or shooting at NPC's in belts. That wasn't very honourable. PL's uberness is known around the universe. I remember this one time in Delve when PL used capital ships. That was quite something, it was a bunch of carriers that were to rep a POS. For whatever reason - they blew up, their pilots must have crashed or something, PL would have never lost those carriers in another situation, they are simply too uber for that.

Skjorta
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.05.28 14:32:00 - [242]
 

This whole thread makes me [email protected]

Glad to see Bruce finally got what was coming to them. The smug "holier than thou" attitude they had was frankly annoying.

The whole alliance was a scam tbh. They mass recruited corps in with no requirements at all...just wanted them to pay taxes. Then mysteriously their dictator leader leaves them and takes along everything that isn't nailed down. Makes me laugh at people who still shout the Bruce propaganda (Long Live Bruce! lol).


blue strigoy
Minmatar
elite armchair generals
Posted - 2008.05.28 14:33:00 - [243]
 

Originally by: Mary Anne



Originally by: blue strigoy

Why should Bruce members not also talk about the 'other' methods, which PL and Goon used and used very often, as I heard?

Why should executing these methods have no weight, why would PLGoon do it, if metagaming would not help anyway?

Believe me. Destroying Bruce from the inside was the key. Losing a battle or two, do you think that does really matter over all?

All those posts from PL/Goon about Bruce making them look like Noobs and Carebears like Rise, comparing them with ASCN and other dead alliances. Of course now Bruce is dead. The job is done well.

Why should former average Bruce members say now: "Thank you PLGoon for destroying our alliance, my assets and game fun in the last months, it was always nice and fair?"

You can not gank somebody, if you do not know, he is there and weak. There is no doubt, it is a lot easier to gank a miner or ratter, if your Bruce alt is sitting next to him or watching the Bruce intel channels and tells you, what he will do next, and the victim does not even know, that his killers are even close. That is what happened. Why should we not talk about it? I can only say, we Goon spies did a great job. And all the others: sry you are only the second winner.



Dear blue,

*sigh* the learning curve is not steep for BRUCE isnt it?

It is the others fault, not BRUCE's. In fact it was the spy only from the inside. BRUCE are soooooooo perfect, that it becomes obvious there must have been a hacker - rl. One former BRUCE even threatens with a rl law suit...

C'mon get real - this is a one sided lollercoaster discussion. Fail is fail - BRUCE failed.

Yours most kindly

Mary Anne




That is not fair. How you want to play down my good work as Goon spy now. Crying or Very sad

So there was no Goon Black ops team, there were no Psy ops, no spaming CAOD with Fail bruce threads, no spamming Local with links to **********'s Forum, ********** had nothing to do with all of this, somebody hacked his forum and posted all these quotes and private messages from the Bruce internal forums?

Is this correct now?

ps: Oh and ********** is no more playing Eve and certainly no member of Pandemic Legion. OF course we all knew this.


Mary Anne
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2008.05.28 14:36:00 - [244]
 

Edited by: Mary Anne on 28/05/2008 14:37:08
Originally by: blue strigoy

That is not fair. How you want to play down my good work as Goon spy now. Crying or Very sad

So there was no Goon Black ops team, there were no Psy ops, no spaming CAOD with Fail bruce threads, no spamming Local with links to **********'s Forum, ********** had nothing to do with all of this, somebody hacked his forum and posted all these quotes and private messages from the Bruce internal forums?

Is this correct now?

ps: Oh and ********** is no more playing Eve and certainly no member of Pandemic Legion. OF course we all knew this.





Dear blue,

why not just enjoy our dirty work and wholeheartly endorse the results while adding cream and a cherry atop?


With sincere regards


Mary Anne


EDIT: forgot proper letter style - you need style since it makes others realize you are different.

Anax Walsinghami
Minmatar
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2008.05.28 14:38:00 - [245]
 

Originally by: Mary Anne
Edited by: Mary Anne on 28/05/2008 14:14:42


Dear Anax,

I mourn with you. It is just... discouraging to hear the same old shibboleth, realizing BRUCE did not learn at all. A failed concept is a failed concept simple as that. The big boys like MC, TRI,... do it with style - they face the truth based on facts and just close doors.

BRUCE instead tries to blame others - taking no responsibilty, while offering no consequence. It is a clear sign of immaturity and total lack in understanding the facts. Dead is dead - simple as that.

Yours truly

Mary Anne




Sorry Mary Anne, you talk of the "old" Bruce while posting under a alt. Do have the courage to use your main. Was not Huzzah at one time considered dead? Yet somehow they rebounded. Bruce will do like wise.

blue strigoy
Minmatar
elite armchair generals
Posted - 2008.05.28 14:40:00 - [246]
 

Edited by: blue strigoy on 28/05/2008 14:40:08
Originally by: Mary Anne
Edited by: Mary Anne on 28/05/2008 14:37:08
Originally by: blue strigoy

That is not fair. How you want to play down my good work as Goon spy now. Crying or Very sad

So there was no Goon Black ops team, there were no Psy ops, no spaming CAOD with Fail bruce threads, no spamming Local with links to **********'s Forum, ********** had nothing to do with all of this, somebody hacked his forum and posted all these quotes and private messages from the Bruce internal forums?

Is this correct now?

ps: Oh and ********** is no more playing Eve and certainly no member of Pandemic Legion. OF course we all knew this.





Dear blue,

why not just enjoy our dirty work and wholeheartly endorse the results while adding cream and a cherry atop?


With sincere regards


Mary Anne


EDIT: forgot proper letter style - you need style since it makes others realize you are different.


I thought we need more attention to this thread. I bring more clicks, words and letters. That is a good thing, isn't it? Now it is your turn again to answer.

Carin K
Minmatar
Black Omega Security
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.05.28 15:19:00 - [247]
 

Originally by: TWD
Originally by: HotSeat

1. PL fight people, thats all we do, thats it, nothing but fight. So, when we find people that will fight us back, we are happy little eve'rs. We sat in Bob home systems and fought them until they gave up and turned to Blob / mass cap fleet tactics- aka lag fighting. So we went to fountian for a quick holiday, and Bruce turned it into a war.



Yeah, I remember that! I'm sorry that people gave up fighting your cruiser gangs on their own when travelling around or shooting at NPC's in belts. That wasn't very honourable. PL's uberness is known around the universe. I remember this one time in Delve when PL used capital ships. That was quite something, it was a bunch of carriers that were to rep a POS. For whatever reason - they blew up, their pilots must have crashed or something, PL would have never lost those carriers in another situation, they are simply too uber for that.


Your memory is good! I remember this one time in an eve tourney where you said that your setup was truly "unbeatable". That was quite something, it was a solid setup and got you through the group stages. For whatever reason - it failed miserably, their pilots must have died to 10 t1 cruisers or something, TWD would never have claimed he was never gonna FC another op because of this, he is simply to uber for that.

TWD
Minmatar
Evolution
KenZoku
Posted - 2008.05.28 15:26:00 - [248]
 

Originally by: Carin K

Your memory is good! I remember this one time in an eve tourney where you said that your setup was truly "unbeatable". That was quite something, it was a solid setup and got you through the group stages. For whatever reason - it failed miserably, their pilots must have died to 10 t1 cruisers or something, TWD would never have claimed he was never gonna FC another op because of this, he is simply to uber for that.


I sort of have this effect sometimes after playing for a while and after winning 3 of the tournaments before that. I couldn't really help it that people thought my team was uber and unbeatable. I apologize to the people for being that good and they are not. Life is sometimes just not fair.

Mary Anne
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2008.05.28 15:52:00 - [249]
 

Edited by: Mary Anne on 28/05/2008 15:53:41
Originally by: blue strigoy
I thought we need more attention to this thread. I bring more clicks, words and letters. That is a good thing, isn't it? Now it is your turn again to answer.



Dear blue,

I do not intent to be mean towards BRUCE. It is just about telling the truth and stating the obvious.

Kind regards


Mary Anne



Shadoo
Gallente
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.05.28 16:19:00 - [250]
 

Edited by: Shadoo on 28/05/2008 16:29:26
Originally by: TWD
Yeah, I remember that! I'm sorry that people gave up fighting your cruiser gangs on their own when travelling around or shooting at NPC's in belts. That wasn't very honourable. PL's uberness is known around the universe. I remember this one time in Delve when PL used capital ships. That was quite something, it was a bunch of carriers that were to rep a POS. For whatever reason - they blew up, their pilots must have crashed or something, PL would have never lost those carriers in another situation, they are simply too uber for that.


Actually we used capitals in Delve quite a few times, everytime with varying degrees of suckiness. That one time was definately funny, killed some BSes, then got dropped by mommies and dreads while people (including me Laughing) were unable to comprehent "stay at the edge of shields and move in when anything comes close".

Personally thou, I prefer to laugh at the 4-5 times when our POS Geddon fleet got jumped & completely wiped out @ gate. No AB/MWD RR POS Geddons vs fleet is quite funny. I'm also suprised you didn't mention the PL sniper BS gangs, who unprepared for any lag usually died without anyone scrambling them even.

Funny times in Delve Laughing.

See -- the difference is that we can take the **** out of ourselves, while you serious people go on about your serious business. Thou some people like HotSeat consistenly fail at everything, including managing to get on RA's brown list on a joint op where he yelled racial slurs at Nync.

What really cracks me up thou, is given our numbers and our proven track record of absolutely sucking in anything bigger than command ships -- we still somehow managed to take on probably the second biggest BS yielding entity out there. Now THAT -- is funny (if you know how their leadership thought they were ready to take on anyone in Fountain alone) Laughing.

blue strigoy
Minmatar
elite armchair generals
Posted - 2008.05.28 16:21:00 - [251]
 

Edited by: blue strigoy on 28/05/2008 16:25:00
Edited by: blue strigoy on 28/05/2008 16:23:15

Originally by: Mary Anne
Edited by: Mary Anne on 28/05/2008 15:53:41
Originally by: blue strigoy
I thought we need more attention to this thread. I bring more clicks, words and letters. That is a good thing, isn't it? Now it is your turn again to answer.



Dear blue,

I do not intent to be mean towards BRUCE. It is just about telling the truth and stating the obvious.

Kind regards


Mary Anne





I am not in Bruce. I just want the Goon spies honored more. It was not all because Bruce made so much fail. We Goon spies were so good. Your turn again now. Lets keep this beautiful thread alive. And who cares whether Bruce is on the ground or not? We need more attention here. That is all what counts! All hail to GIA alts.

ps: kind regards to you, too, thanks, you are too kind.

HotSeat
Caldari
Black Omega Security
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.05.28 16:32:00 - [252]
 

Originally by: Shadoo


See -- the difference is that we can take the **** out of ourselves, while you serious people go on about your serious business. Thou some people like HotSeat consistenly fail at everything, including managing to get on RA's brown list on a joint op where he yelled racial slurs at Nync.

What really cracks me up thou, is given our numbers and our proven track record of absolutely sucking in anything bigger than a command ships -- we still somehow managed to take on probably the second biggest BS yielding entity out there. Now THAT -- is funny Laughing.


That was a win, not a fail.....
Fail was my attemp to mine a high end moon in a Bob home system. That got boring after the first week Embarassed

Battlestar Galactica
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2008.05.28 16:36:00 - [253]
 

i have had multiple characters in bruce and been around them (not in good terms) since there down and tbh i am glad this day have come and there dieing a slow and horrible death that the trusted leader got of his pedastal and ran back into empire prob to clear it up of those nasty piwates in aeschee.

The whole collapse and sorry state its come to can be pinned on a hand full of people in the Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc corp, using there out of date tactics and having bas FC's such as Zaphod Bee while the good and best players have to follow them into bad fights.

This was not a democracy this was a authoritarianism by Fried and the Foom corp.

So long BRUCE dont come back anytime soon

Shadoo
Gallente
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.05.28 16:36:00 - [254]
 

Originally by: HotSeat

That was a win, not a fail.....
Fail was my attemp to mine a high end moon in a Bob home system. That got boring after the first week Embarassed



Yeah, because the large tower you placed in PR- lasted about 2 days there Laughing.

De Lucci
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2008.05.28 16:38:00 - [255]
 

Originally by: The Blinded
I hope you realize that BRUCE was using exactly same kinds of metagaming, only with way less success - with reps crying out loud about being outplayed by PL in yet another field.


BRUCE probably did have spies out and about, it'd be stupid to say otherwise. Even as pure as they claimed to be there's little reason to doubt they did their share of metagaming when they wanted to. I don't think you can define having a spy reading enemy forums and having an Indonesian friend hacking forums to read not just ordinary content but personal information, private messages and so forth as "the same kinds of metagaming". One is a part of the game, the other has legal consequences in most situations.

0uch
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2008.05.28 18:15:00 - [256]
 

what he said ^

it's nice how they always evade the posts about hacking and call in the vent spies. lame pl really lame. you hacked a forum, you did illegal things for a game lol. you fail! you fail so hard that i cant stop laughing over how you try to beat your chest here for a job well done. hahahaha!

but it shows a lot of the people behind pl. nerds with no life.

Thelying dutchman
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.05.28 18:21:00 - [257]
 

Originally by: blue strigoy


I thought we need more attention to this thread. I bring more clicks, words and letters. That is a good thing, isn't it? Now it is your turn again to answer.


Im mr blue
Im here to stay with you
And no matter what you do
When youre lonely - Ill be lonely too


I'm getting all emo with all these tears

blue strigoy
Minmatar
elite armchair generals
Posted - 2008.05.28 18:27:00 - [258]
 

Originally by: Thelying dutchman

I'm getting all emo with all these tears


Really? How emo? Shocked

Torso Errata
Minmatar
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2008.05.28 19:19:00 - [259]
 

Edited by: Torso Errata on 28/05/2008 19:27:58
Just to clarify some misunderstandings.

1) I'm Smurf Fellator's main, those were my first two posts on CAOD, and I understand the objection to alt posting. Since I hope to remain active in EVE regardless of what happens with Bruce (though I'll give my all to see them survive and adapt), I'll get with the program.

2) As I understand it, the Bruce "code" objection to metagaming has little to do with spying. Ordinary spies are within the structure of the game, and cannot hence be "meta". Bruce seems to have tried them, but with lesser success than our adversaries. I expect that will continue, if only to develop effective counterintelligence skills. It takes a spy to know one.

3) Bruce was nowhere near a dictatorship. We had overly centralized alliance roles, and were hence too vulnerable to burn-out. But I think our forum spies know all too well that there were always active internal debates, with the "right" solutions fiercely advocated. There was and remains the knowledge in Bruce to adapt to sovereign 0.0 warfare, and away from a model that was successful in NPC space. However, it is also a part of the Bruce "code" that each corporation has a say and significant autonomy. If there was in fact a dictatorship, a single authority could have quickly ended the debates and promulgate direction. We'll always have democratic foundations, but I think we've learned some lessons here.

4) I happen to believe the combined dogpile of PL, BOB, Goon blackops, CI, Burn Eden, Tri and other could very likely have evicted Bruce from Fountain regardless of metagaming in the form of hacking etc. They are more focused pure-PvP organizations, using alt-corps for much their logistics, while Bruce had more of a mix of the hard-core and casual gamer, as well as numerous industrial alts within the org. That's not a bad thing in itself - conflicts between industral and PvP corps have been the death of many of an alliance. Pandemic Legion, especially, are extremely effective and watching their tactics and teamwork while racing in cloaked for warp-ins was extremely educational. Congrats - I hope to have you guys around to joust with should I ever be in a position to deploy more effective countertactics.

5) I'll let you in on a little secret of why I've loved being in Bruce for the past two months. Bruce members are all attracted to a "white-hat" code that offers perhaps less adrenaline but more satifaction to us than its opposite. I think its fair to say that Bruce players are, on average, a bit older, and with more family commitments than the average 0.0 alliance member. And we enjoy that sort of community. There were never any screaming tirades, and most every member strove to treat their fellow Bruce with respect. That extended all the way to a virtual ban on profanity on voice comms, to spare those members with children playing in the room. In my personal life, I drink like a fish and cuss like a sailor. But I accept our verbal straightjackets quite happily, because someday I too will have children. And I chose to treat my fellow Bruce with respect, no matter how inane their questions or commands proved. I think we all do.

6) Last secret: The Brutally Efficient Empire isn't particularly brutal nor empirical, and we're working hard on the efficient part. The name stems from a 40 year old Monty Python skit - we are an alliance named in absurdity. It would be absurd if we make a new home, befriend some neighbors, and come back more efficient than before. I'll keep laughing til then.

KardonHarman
Caldari
Demi-Goth
Posted - 2008.05.28 20:41:00 - [260]
 

As I am already in the crap with Snigg, I doubt if posting here will hurt that much, and to be honest its a game and I dont care !!!!

DID PL have forum and vent spies?

Yes we did .. * shock , horror*
Did they make difference ?

Heres a bit of enlightenment for BRUCE,- no they didn't, Using covert ops watching your fleets and alignments made a difference, making sure we chose the time and place of engagements made a difference, You using predicatable set ups made a difference.

Heres another tip for you.. no-one *HACKED* into your vent or forums, they didnt need to, they were open all you neded to be is part of BRUCE to get access, did the PL get to read everything on your forums? YES we did, but when it came down to the fights we didnt have time to refer to your Vent or forums, the PL FC's just called it as the scouts sent in the real time info.

AFAIK BRUCE lost every single engagement with us, with the best spy in the world we couldnt have 23/7 coverage, BRUCE lost not because of spies but because they couldnt't/wouldn't adapt. They were predictable and with that they easy to defeat

Blaming the defeat on metagaming etc is easy, it takes away the blame, and the individual pilots can walk away head held high thinking they didnt lose because of bad tactics or personal skills but because someone else cheated !!

Sorry guys you lost for one simple reason: You didnt adapt to the situation, many of your FC's were screaming out this one single point but the corps reps refused to listen. If you had listened to Kithica and even Midgarth you would had inflicted far more damage and even perhaps delayed the end result.

As it is the thing that killed BRUCE with the inflexibility of the reps and the refuasl to listen and take on board the FC's reccomendations. Spies didnt kill BRUCE, Hacking didnt kill BRUCE, even PL didnt kill BRUCE - BRUCE reps killed BRUCE.

I will give the individual BRUCE pilots kudos, faced with PL on one side and their reps stifling any military enterprise on the other they still tried time and time again to bring the fight. For that alone the BRUCE pilots at the bottom of the food chain deserve credit, and their leaders are not worthy to be above such people

blue strigoy
Minmatar
elite armchair generals
Posted - 2008.05.28 21:25:00 - [261]
 

Originally by: KardonHarman

DID PL have forum and vent spies?

Yes we did .. * shock , horror*
Did they make difference ?

Heres a bit of enlightenment for BRUCE,- no they didn't + lots of blabla, how uber you are.



If spies make no difference and you are so Uber anyway, why you use then spies? really only low-life voyeurism? Also are you really sure, I mean, absolutely sure, we spies from PLgoon did not read a little more than only some postings in the public forums for common Bruce members, like PMs, which were not sent to us originally? Now you pretend, you have not heard or seen anything.

Mary Anne
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2008.05.28 21:51:00 - [262]
 

Edited by: Mary Anne on 28/05/2008 22:07:24

Originally by: Torso Errata aka Smurf Fellatio

<snip shibboleth>
I'll keep laughing til then.


Dear Torso (says the head),

you suggest that BRUCE was efficient in the first place - I advocate against that brutally clever claim. Being efficient in this regard suggests intelligence or at least acting as if BRUCE's moves are intelligent.

Which raises an interesting question:
1. How clever were your leaders? Listening to your vent... well I advocate against that.
2. Now suggesting your leaders are/were not intelligent... How intelligent can the members be, who followed?

That said, the statement "becoming more efficient" is a fail concept in itself from the start on. Truth is brutal: the whole concept is a huge failboat and BRUCE members fail in realizing it.

See a pattern?

Come here, I dry your tears.

With all due respect

Yours

Mary Anne.


Mr Rive
Gallente
Black Omega Security
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.05.28 22:40:00 - [263]
 

Originally by: blue strigoy
Originally by: KardonHarman

DID PL have forum and vent spies?

Yes we did .. * shock , horror*
Did they make difference ?

Heres a bit of enlightenment for BRUCE,- no they didn't + lots of blabla, how uber you are.



If spies make no difference and you are so Uber anyway, why you use then spies? really only low-life voyeurism? Also are you really sure, I mean, absolutely sure, we spies from PLgoon did not read a little more than only some postings in the public forums for common Bruce members, like PMs, which were not sent to us originally? Now you pretend, you have not heard or seen anything.


Of course the spies made a difference, it was nice to know where your enemy is going to be attacking, and all that other crap...
The biggest reason is that most of our guys just liked hearing the whining and terrible speeches that were going on. And the forum pron, that was pretty sweet too.

Gneeznow
Minmatar
Ship spinners inc
Posted - 2008.05.28 22:46:00 - [264]
 

Edited by: Gneeznow on 28/05/2008 22:46:34
The forum pron was awesome, the whining was epic it was like drinking from a fountain of lucozade tears which gave us the energy to grief harder

NeVeH
Minmatar
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.05.28 22:47:00 - [265]
 

Originally by: blue strigoy
really only low-life voyeurism?


Yes

blue strigoy
Minmatar
elite armchair generals
Posted - 2008.05.28 22:59:00 - [266]
 

Originally by: NeVeH
Originally by: blue strigoy
really only low-life voyeurism?


Yes


the problem is just, nobody will believe this. Some stupid members in PL pretend espionage was a great help for the win.

NeVeH
Minmatar
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.05.28 23:09:00 - [267]
 

Originally by: blue strigoy
Originally by: NeVeH
Originally by: blue strigoy
really only low-life voyeurism?


Yes


the problem is just, nobody will believe this. Some stupid members in PL pretend espionage was a great help for the win.



The point is, which is worse?

Darpz
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.05.28 23:18:00 - [268]
 

Edited by: Darpz on 28/05/2008 23:22:05
if you could see the 1000+ post thread on our internal forums full of us circle jerking over bruce tears you would see that while the intel was nice the tears are 100x better.

EDIT:

also PL are horrible posters...Shadoo especially

blue strigoy
Minmatar
elite armchair generals
Posted - 2008.05.28 23:27:00 - [269]
 

Originally by: Darpz
if you could see the 1000+ post thread on our internal forums full of us circle jerking over bruce tears you would see that while the intel was nice the tears are 100x better.


So you say in opposite to what Neveh said first, you liked both. The intel and the voyeurism.

NeVeH
Minmatar
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.05.28 23:30:00 - [270]
 

Originally by: blue strigoy
Originally by: Darpz
if you could see the 1000+ post thread on our internal forums full of us circle jerking over bruce tears you would see that while the intel was nice the tears are 100x better.


So you say in opposite to what Neveh said first, you liked both. The intel and the voyeurism.


SOMEONE IS LYING!!!


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