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JafoPBCFR
One Stop Mining Shop
Posted - 2008.05.16 19:42:00 - [1]
 

Ok with the Faction war coming out. Many of you are prob not to well liked by your Faction of choice.

Now i dont like the thought of you bottom feeders being in my Honorable Navy. As do many Officers.

However, I do recognise the need for you in the grand scheme of things. So i come to this thought Idea.

Concord gives a forgive of past crimes in the empire space you choose to take a letter of marque from. Attacking merchant shipping and mining as you find them. Of the Op faction ofcourse.

Now if you suddenly finnd the urge to brake with this. You should recive such a bounty that youd be in 0.0 space rating for 30 yrs ( Not really) to get your sec backup.

now the only targets that would be considerd part of the letter would be those who are actually a part of the war. Not noncomms or the carebears that want nothing to do with it. No need to ruin it if you could gain something from it on a lvl of the privateering.

Anyway i saw nothing of this in anything ive read. so what do you think im sure its been mentioned prior but squeeky wheel.Very Happy

Kage Toshimado
The Logistical Nightmare
Posted - 2008.05.16 20:35:00 - [2]
 


Maybe its just me, but what exactly is your point? That you have to get a letter of marque to shoot people?

Correct me if I'm wrong because I seriously don't know, but I think that's what happens when you pick a faction.

Havohej
Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
Posted - 2008.05.16 20:36:00 - [3]
 

This would mean I don't need to use an alt to bring stuff to me in lowsec... I'd pay a reasonable amount of ISK for such a document to enter Minmatar Republic space... but as my corporation is in an alliance, I'm not sure I'll even be allowed to participate in FW anyway - haven't read too deeply on the matter...

Interesting idea, imo.

Havohej
Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
Posted - 2008.05.16 20:37:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Kage Toshimado

Maybe its just me, but what exactly is your point? That you have to get a letter of marque to shoot people?

Correct me if I'm wrong because I seriously don't know, but I think that's what happens when you pick a faction.


He's suggesting the letter of marque to allow pirates (sec status below -5.0) to enter highsec space in the empire they choose to fight for, so as to be able to participate in the highsec parts of FW.

JafoPBCFR
One Stop Mining Shop
Posted - 2008.05.16 20:54:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Havohej
Originally by: Kage Toshimado

Maybe its just me, but what exactly is your point? That you have to get a letter of marque to shoot people?

Correct me if I'm wrong because I seriously don't know, but I think that's what happens when you pick a faction.


He's suggesting the letter of marque to allow pirates (sec status below -5.0) to enter highsec space in the empire they choose to fight for, so as to be able to participate in the highsec parts of FW.


Yes pretty much. Im also sort of looking to allow the pirate community a option to be a privateer. Rather then a military Combatant.

Short end of it. Provide you with content to your chosen play style. Your not antipirate your Pirates which if you know your history is made legal by having a letter of marque and reprisal.

Selorna
Gallente
Posted - 2008.05.16 21:12:00 - [6]
 

I don't see how this would be a good thing. It just gives a way for Low Sec pirates' free reign in Empire Space to grief with absolutely no consequences, as security rating would now be meaningless due to the fact that they can pod and tank their security rating as much as they want and still be able to stay in empire. Kind of defeats the whole purpose of the system in place.

Havohej
Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
Posted - 2008.05.16 21:17:00 - [7]
 

I disagree on the grounds that, as per the OP's suggestion, such a letter of marque would authorize the ne'er-do-well like me to enter highsec space and engage only those deemed enemies of the Republic/State/Federation/Empire respectively. If in Minmatar Republic, perhaps I could attack Caldari and Amarr players who were involved in the FW content but not the average Achura Caldari afk mining in his hulk, as that player wouldn't be involved in FW.

tbh, though, I'd probably not do a lot of faction warfare fighting... I'd probably just buy stuff and go about my business, enjoying the convenience of not having to log onto Zulu Six to get my goods out of highsec.

JafoPBCFR
One Stop Mining Shop
Posted - 2008.05.16 22:24:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Selorna
I don't see how this would be a good thing. It just gives a way for Low Sec pirates' free reign in Empire Space to grief with absolutely no consequences, as security rating would now be meaningless due to the fact that they can pod and tank their security rating as much as they want and still be able to stay in empire. Kind of defeats the whole purpose of the system in place.


Howso? If they attack somone whos not in the FW they would be given a bigger penalty then if they were to doit without the letter. And the letter would become null void.

Its not a free pass to gank those who are AFK mining. Its to raid commerce of those corps who wish to engage in the FW. With the concent of the Faction who issues the letter.



Read up on what it is. then pass judgement.

Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
Posted - 2008.05.16 22:30:00 - [9]
 

A dev wrote something about this in the General forum a few weeks ago. He basically said he didn't think that, for example, an Amarr pirate preying on Minmatars in Minmatar lowsec should be unwelcome in Amarr highsec. The dev said he wasn't in the game design department, just a database guy, so it wasn't like a hint about things to come.

I think that privateering features would make a lot of sense, but it'd be very complex. What if the pirate was pirating other factions' members in his home faction's lowsec? What if he was pirating his own faction's members in other factions' lowsec? What if he was killing other pirates?

Redbad
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.05.16 22:46:00 - [10]
 

Like I said in an earlier thread. If Faction Warfare needs to take me into high-sec and I cannot go, because my own friendly navy starts to shoot me I'd would be, to say the least, greatly disappointed ...

RB

JafoPBCFR
One Stop Mining Shop
Posted - 2008.05.16 22:56:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Redbad
Like I said in an earlier thread. If Faction Warfare needs to take me into high-sec and I cannot go, because my own friendly navy starts to shoot me I'd would be, to say the least, greatly disappointed ...

RB



Thats another good point of why i thought this would be a good idea.

Again im in the thinking of giving those who choose tobe pirates to have a reason to be apart of the FW. I mean you could still just blast everyone and not worry about factions. But for those who would like to be more privateer and serve a purpose whil doing what they do so well.

Bhodistafa
Gallente
Posted - 2008.05.16 23:01:00 - [12]
 

Geez talk about real life and internet space games interacting. Part of the history degree I'm studying is on piracy and letters of marque.

One of the great problems with these lil' documents was the fact they were exploited,forged or otherwise used to ill effect. In other words in a game such as eve it would be tantamount to ringing the dinner bell for all -5 peeps to simply pwn anyone they fancied in highsec.

Simple terms: CCP would get heaps of petitions from pis$ed of folks who considered themselves griefed. Sure the -5 and below would have a blast but pappa bear going about his normal business would be upset.

Oh, and a RL instance. Letters of marque were used against neutrals also to capture shipping as prizes who were considered to be hauling belligerant goods to home ports. The analogy in a space game don't seem to fit well.

What you guys really need to consider for this is called 'Guerre de Course'... use of privateers in a wartime situation to augment a faction navy. Even then it would be difficult to control.

JafoPBCFR
One Stop Mining Shop
Posted - 2008.05.16 23:14:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Bhodistafa
Geez talk about real life and internet space games interacting. Part of the history degree I'm studying is on piracy and letters of marque.

One of the great problems with these lil' documents was the fact they were exploited,forged or otherwise used to ill effect. In other words in a game such as eve it would be tantamount to ringing the dinner bell for all -5 peeps to simply pwn anyone they fancied in highsec.

Simple terms: CCP would get heaps of petitions from pis$ed of folks who considered themselves griefed. Sure the -5 and below would have a blast but pappa bear going about his normal business would be upset.

Oh, and a RL instance. Letters of marque were used against neutrals also to capture shipping as prizes who were considered to be hauling belligerant goods to home ports. The analogy in a space game don't seem to fit well.

What you guys really need to consider for this is called 'Guerre de Course'... use of privateers in a wartime situation to augment a faction navy. Even then it would be difficult to control.


How would it? one thing Internet games offer is controls.

Which i provided.
A. Person getting the letter would have to obide by the rules. Attack Only OPFOR units and there commerce. NPC or Player.

B. Only those who are active in the FW system would be attackable. if johnny is in a noob corp he cant be attacked. But if he or his corp are in a milita then he is deemed a target.

C. If holder of the letter attacks a Noob corp alliiend or non FW player or Ally of same milita. They lose the Letter immediately and have there orig sec staus returned to the lvl x2 or 3. And they would not beable to get a letter for a extensive time.

So yes it could work. In RL it may not have but then again there was no control that Coding offers.

Selorna
Gallente
Posted - 2008.05.16 23:16:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Bhodistafa
Geez talk about real life and internet space games interacting. Part of the history degree I'm studying is on piracy and letters of marque.

One of the great problems with these lil' documents was the fact they were exploited,forged or otherwise used to ill effect. In other words in a game such as eve it would be tantamount to ringing the dinner bell for all -5 peeps to simply pwn anyone they fancied in highsec.

Simple terms: CCP would get heaps of petitions from pis$ed of folks who considered themselves griefed. Sure the -5 and below would have a blast but pappa bear going about his normal business would be upset.

Oh, and a RL instance. Letters of marque were used against neutrals also to capture shipping as prizes who were considered to be hauling belligerant goods to home ports. The analogy in a space game don't seem to fit well.

What you guys really need to consider for this is called 'Guerre de Course'... use of privateers in a wartime situation to augment a faction navy. Even then it would be difficult to control.


So True...

I do see the original posters point and the "romance" of the privateer. However I do not see how this would work. A privateer may have been authorized by his government but he was still a criminal to the opposing government. The fact that he may be holding a decree from an enemy country did not hold water and he was still hung for piracy. So to make it realistic you would be able to enter your own space, but still be destroyed on sight to your opposing factionís police. So...what's the point?

Shikaku
Minmatar
The Cursed Navy
Posted - 2008.05.17 01:12:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Shikaku on 17/05/2008 01:12:45
edit, wrogn thread, damn forums

JafoPBCFR
One Stop Mining Shop
Posted - 2008.05.17 02:26:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: JafoPBCFR on 17/05/2008 02:30:19
Originally by: Selorna
Originally by: Bhodistafa
Geez talk about real life and internet space games interacting. Part of the history degree I'm studying is on piracy and letters of marque.

One of the great problems with these lil' documents was the fact they were exploited,forged or otherwise used to ill effect. In other words in a game such as eve it would be tantamount to ringing the dinner bell for all -5 peeps to simply pwn anyone they fancied in highsec.

Simple terms: CCP would get heaps of petitions from pis$ed of folks who considered themselves griefed. Sure the -5 and below would have a blast but pappa bear going about his normal business would be upset.

Oh, and a RL instance. Letters of marque were used against neutrals also to capture shipping as prizes who were considered to be hauling belligerant goods to home ports. The analogy in a space game don't seem to fit well.

What you guys really need to consider for this is called 'Guerre de Course'... use of privateers in a wartime situation to augment a faction navy. Even then it would be difficult to control.


So True...

I do see the original posters point and the "romance" of the privateer. However I do not see how this would work. A privateer may have been authorized by his government but he was still a criminal to the opposing government. The fact that he may be holding a decree from an enemy country did not hold water and he was still hung for piracy. So to make it realistic you would be able to enter your own space, but still be destroyed on sight to your opposing factionís police. So...what's the point?


Guess my point was if it was gated or locked you out. and you cant for sec reasons join a milita or want to join one.

it would also allow you into empire space without concord nailing your butts.

If you join a milita the OpNavy will blast ya anyway. So the thought of Well i dont see how a letter would allow me in enemy space makes sense to think of anyway. sort of a CONCORD wont interfear with you if you attack a OPFOR ship.

ITS NOT A GO KILL EVERYONE INSPACE CARD!

Look your pirates your not the Navy. So what it offers you is a alt way of becoming involved in the FW without actually becoming navy. But hey if ya want to get that sec backup and just join the navy hey im all forit. Screw the idea of you keeping to your playstyle and uniform up and follow the rules.

But i dont think you guys/gals want to do that.YARRRR!!YARRRR!!


Callthetruth
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.05.17 09:05:00 - [17]
 

there is a point here, we hwo sign up with factional warfare will be able to use NPC alts in empire to be hauling stuff around. So really it will only be combat ships ( unless we get RPers that fly everything) that will be in factional warfare

RuleoftheBone
Minmatar
Black Viper Nomads
Posted - 2008.05.17 09:40:00 - [18]
 

As a -10 outlaw I recognize NO authority beyond my own. I certainly have no wish to join anyone's navy.

I should be free to engage in losec as I please with no paperwork requirement.


Bhodistafa
Gallente
Posted - 2008.05.17 10:03:00 - [19]
 

Privateers don't necessarily have to have a low security status. By definition pirates follow no authority other than their own.

What I was trying to point out was that you could in theory have an in game marker, in this case a letter of marque, that allowed a player to join a faction navy without leaving his/her corp or other alliance and would make them a valid war target.

You might have the situation where players that have been around for some time and are still in an NPC corp decide they want to keep their individuality and still fight in the war. They could do this if they purchased a letter of marque...yes they were bought by the folks who wanted to kill/capture prizes!

What you could have is a system whereby a faction navy issues by contract a number of letters that are bidable upon by anyone who wants to take part. You could vary these by game time, length and indeed strength (I'm sounding like a toilet roll advert already Razz ) Letters could be issued for entire corps or just single individuals, but depending upon timespan would depend on how much they cost ect...

Tuberider
Pothouse Cartel
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2008.05.17 11:11:00 - [20]
 

read the fine print in my sig Razz

JafoPBCFR
One Stop Mining Shop
Posted - 2008.05.17 11:42:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Bhodistafa
Privateers don't necessarily have to have a low security status. By definition pirates follow no authority other than their own.

What I was trying to point out was that you could in theory have an in game marker, in this case a letter of marque, that allowed a player to join a faction navy without leaving his/her corp or other alliance and would make them a valid war target.

You might have the situation where players that have been around for some time and are still in an NPC corp decide they want to keep their individuality and still fight in the war. They could do this if they purchased a letter of marque...yes they were bought by the folks who wanted to kill/capture prizes!

What you could have is a system whereby a faction navy issues by contract a number of letters that are bidable upon by anyone who wants to take part. You could vary these by game time, length and indeed strength (I'm sounding like a toilet roll advert already Razz ) Letters could be issued for entire corps or just single individuals, but depending upon timespan would depend on how much they cost ect...


hmm never thought about it but it could be a answer to a member of a allience to join the war with out the entire allience having tobe involved as they are excluded from it anyway.

Bhodistafa
Gallente
Posted - 2008.05.17 16:33:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Bhodistafa on 17/05/2008 16:35:05
Originally by: JafoPBCFR

hmm never thought about it but it could be a answer to a member of a allience to join the war with out the entire allience having tobe involved as they are excluded from it anyway.


Exactly


 

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