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Daransee
Posted - 2008.05.14 14:20:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Daransee on 14/05/2008 14:26:38
It seems like some Candidates have a opinion about which issues they want to present to CCP and which should stay out of the Council. So would each Candidate please list up which issue's they're planning not to bring up.

Inanna Zuni
Minmatar
The Causality
Electus Matari
Posted - 2008.05.14 14:35:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Daransee
It seems like some Candidates have a opinion about which issues they want to present to CCP and which should stay out of the Council.

I have published my views on *some* of the issues I would *like* to see discussed between the Council and CCP, in part to promote early discussion, but which issues actually are put forward will depend on you and other pilots. There is nothing that I would consider 'untouchable'. If the <required by CCP's rules for the CSM> number of pilots want something raised I will be very happy to put it on the table; that is the point of you electing representatives to the CSM.

Originally by: Daransee
So would each Candidate please list up which issue's they're planning not to bring up.

None. Everything is to play for.

IZ

Karrakas
Posted - 2008.05.14 15:46:00 - [3]
 

Maybe i should precise the question... Also asked are non-issues...
Like this:
-LaVista Vista, Omber Zombie and Goumindong declare the status quo on the T2 BPO vs. Invention Question as suitable and as non-issue

But I doubt not all Participants would post their view like this. So everyone is welcome to post negative reviews from other tasks here.

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2008.05.14 16:00:00 - [4]
 

Oh please, don't be silly.

It's not for me to decide if it's an issue or not. But nobody actually came with a proper argument why T2 BPO's should be removed.

If it isn't broken, don't fix it.

If somebody can argue WHY they should be removed, I will happily bring it to CCP. Else, just get 5% to vote for the issue, and have CSM talk about it.

But until you can come up with any(I'm yet to see any) good argument, I personally don't think they are a problem.

Letouk Mernel
Caldari
Posted - 2008.05.14 16:03:00 - [5]
 

I don't think the question makes sense.

If something is an issue (i.e. it's discussed on the boards and it gathers support by players), they are forced to bring it up as per the rules.

If something isn't an issue (someone brings up, say, suicide ganking as being a problem, and a majority of players vote "no it's not an issue, it's fine"), then they may still bring it up as their pet peeve, but likely it won't be brought up.

So when you're asking "which issues they won't bring up", if anything's an issue, they HAVE to bring it up.

Karrakas
Posted - 2008.05.14 16:12:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Letouk Mernel
So when you're asking "which issues they won't bring up", if anything's an issue, they HAVE to bring it up.

Yes you're right...

But doubtfully some Candidates don't share this view. Like the topic i added. It's beeing discussed. It's an issue. But those namend refuse presenting it to CCP.
So maybe the question is less the joke that it meant to be..

Soulita
Gallente
Inner Core
Posted - 2008.05.14 16:18:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: LaVista Vista
It's not for me to decide if it's an issue or not. But nobody actually came with a proper argument why T2 BPO's should be removed.


Untrue. Some of the arguments can be found in this thread.

Feel free to join in the discussion in a flame free manner.
But please read the pro arguments and proposed solutions first, then you can adress them.

Soulita
Gallente
Inner Core
Posted - 2008.05.14 16:20:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Karrakas
Originally by: Letouk Mernel
So when you're asking "which issues they won't bring up", if anything's an issue, they HAVE to bring it up.

Yes you're right...

But doubtfully some Candidates don't share this view. Like the topic i added. It's beeing discussed. It's an issue. But those namend refuse presenting it to CCP.
So maybe the question is less the joke that it meant to be..


Yup. Agreed.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2008.05.14 16:31:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Karrakas
Originally by: Letouk Mernel
So when you're asking "which issues they won't bring up", if anything's an issue, they HAVE to bring it up.

Yes you're right...

But doubtfully some Candidates don't share this view. Like the topic i added. It's beeing discussed. It's an issue. But those namend refuse presenting it to CCP.
So maybe the question is less the joke that it meant to be..


Read how things are done, you need 5% population support and then the CSM discusses it for 7 days and makes a vote.

Karrakas
Posted - 2008.05.14 16:54:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Goumindong
Read how things are done, you need 5% population support and then the CSM discusses it for 7 days and makes a vote.

A forced represence is not really better than none.

Arithron
Gallente
Gallente Trade Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.14 16:57:00 - [11]
 

Actually, I can tell you exactly how many issues I intend to post about on the CSM forums to get presented in the CSM meetings (after the 7 day period etc)...

NONE

That's right- none. I think I am being elected to listen to PLAYER issues etc, not my own. I'll look carefully at the arguments for and against issues, both on the CSM forum and in CSM meetings, and then make a reasoned decision which way to vote, after carefully considering the arguments.

Take care,
Bruce Hansen (Arithron)

Karrakas
Posted - 2008.05.14 17:24:00 - [12]
 

Then we have two Avaiable Council members who listen first to the whole community without prejustice before representing it. What about the Other participants?

Darius JOHNSON
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.05.14 17:35:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Karrakas
Then we have two Avaiable Council members who listen first to the whole community without prejustice before representing it. What about the Other participants?


Um, that's the whole purpose. If you want to get an idea of who has a predetermined agenda start looking for manifestos. That being said people are voting for those with agendas as it seems to be a way for them to understand the motivations of people they don't know.

I'm honestly just looking forward to taking part in the process and helping to create the mold for future CSMs.

Scagga Laebetrovo
Failure Assured
Posted - 2008.05.14 17:45:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Karrakas
Maybe i should precise the question... Also asked are non-issues...
Like this:
-LaVista Vista, Omber Zombie and Goumindong declare the status quo on the T2 BPO vs. Invention Question as suitable and as non-issue

But I doubt not all Participants would post their view like this. So everyone is welcome to post negative reviews from other tasks here.


This is a great first post karrakas, welcome to Eve Online. Glad your oceans of experience are being shared with us.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2008.05.14 17:55:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Karrakas
Originally by: Goumindong
Read how things are done, you need 5% population support and then the CSM discusses it for 7 days and makes a vote.

A forced represence is not really better than none.


I am not sure what you are saying. Are you saying i wont look at issues without bias?

Karrakas
Posted - 2008.05.14 18:03:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo
Originally by: Karrakas
Maybe i should precise the question... Also asked are non-issues...
Like this:
-LaVista Vista, Omber Zombie and Goumindong declare the status quo on the T2 BPO vs. Invention Question as suitable and as non-issue

But I doubt not all Participants would post their view like this. So everyone is welcome to post negative reviews from other tasks here.


This is a great first post karrakas, welcome to Eve Online. Glad your oceans of experience are being shared with us.

Thank you for the flowers Scagga
I'm glad that my oceans of experiendce are being heard by the universe.Wink

Karrakas
Posted - 2008.05.14 18:05:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Goumindong
I am not sure what you are saying. Are you saying i wont look at issues without bias?

In short form?
-yes

Even if you don't i doubt u have the right enthusiasm.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2008.05.14 18:14:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Karrakas
Originally by: Goumindong
I am not sure what you are saying. Are you saying i wont look at issues without bias?

In short form?
-yes

Even if you don't i doubt u have the right enthusiasm.


Then you are wrong. There has been a lot of discussion on the issue already, which means i have already done so.

Soulita
Gallente
Inner Core
Posted - 2008.05.14 18:52:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Karrakas
Originally by: Goumindong
I am not sure what you are saying. Are you saying i wont look at issues without bias?

In short form?
-yes

Even if you don't i doubt u have the right enthusiasm.


Then you are wrong. There has been a lot of discussion on the issue already, which means i have already done so.


You have taken part in the discussion, but with bias.
So Karrakas is right about the bias part.

I do not see bias as so much of a problem, since being completely unbiased is close to impossible.

Personally I think all candidates taking part in the discussion are doing a good job.

Just it is a bit unfortunate that there is no pro-side candidate on the t2 bpo removal issue. As such the council is bound to fail at this topic, unless some of the candidates are willing or able to bring it up with CCP in a fair way.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2008.05.14 19:09:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Soulita

You have taken part in the discussion, but with bias.
So Karrakas is right about the bias part.


I have taken part in the discussion without bias. The discussion did not start in the thread in this forum.

Hell, my original position was to remove t2 BPOs. But i changed my mind because the data just doesn't support it and the reasons to remove them just aren't compelling.

Bunyip
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2008.05.15 06:57:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Bunyip on 15/05/2008 06:58:56
Hello all,

I guess I'm one of the few candidates whom have listed their platform for change from the beginning. My website gives all those details of which ideas I really like.

As for ideas I don't like, one of which would be the necro'd thread of Space Whaling. It doesn't fit into the Eve universe, and is also very pointless. I will listen to any idea, but let's be honest, everybody is going to have a personal bias that will slide in regardless of how much we try to keep it out.

Just my .02 ISK.

Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Posted - 2008.05.15 10:48:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Daransee
It seems like some Candidates have a opinion about which issues they want to present to CCP and which should stay out of the Council. So would each Candidate please list up which issue's they're planning not to bring up.

I'm not "planning" anything.

My campaign website - along with my posts here and on other forums - merely indicate the issues that are of interest to me. I suppose it could be argued that I probably won't have much to say about some topics that I simply don't feel qualified to talk about, such as large scale industry or the finer details of POS management, but I'm not going into this with any pre-conceived plan to actually avoid discussion on anything, nor do I plan to discuss anything else without a community mandate to do so first.

/Ben

Ma Zhiqiang
Minmatar
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2008.05.15 18:21:00 - [23]
 

I'd even discuss unserious ideas, because it can lead to some new ideas in the words and thoughts that will fly around in the room. But main issues first, that seem most important to the player community.


 

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