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blankseplocked Stupid manufacturers and lack of an economy of scale
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Dr Caymus
Applied Technologies Inc
Agents of Fortune
Posted - 2008.05.16 04:41:00 - [121]

Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
...In PvP, three rookies can kill one vet easily. Could a dozen budding industrialists do the same to Dr Caymus if his suggestions were implemented?

I see your point, Tsanse, and it is a good one. I've been an industrialist for so long that I forget what it is like trying to break in to the field of manufacturing as a new player. The "budding industrialist" should be able to relatively quickly train the basic skills needed to manufacture and sell a range of T1 goods competitively on the market.

Perhaps one of my suggestions in this area was slightly exaggerated in order to draw attention to it. Requiring a new player to overcome an 80% cost deficit by climbing through the levels of the current Production Efficiency skill plus an Advanced PE skill might be a bit too much to expect. However, under the current structure, a new player can be building T1 items at costs within 5% of perfection with about a week of training and a little blueprint ME research. That strikes me as being a little too fast and too easy. Maybe the right place to be is somewhere in the middle of these two extremes.

Axiom Empire
Posted - 2008.05.16 05:14:00 - [122]

Edited by: Shakuul on 16/05/2008 05:15:10
Originally by: Apocryphai

And no, people aren't dumb in regards to industry in EVE - they're simply operating by different rules and systems to the real world. They're operating in a game and playing that game in a way that suits their enjoyment of it.

An example often raised on these forums is someone undercutting a supplier ina busy market by a large margin.
And yes, the decisions people make often seem illogical from our own point of view - that's because human beings are illogical creatures, we're driven by desires and emotions and we all think and feel differently about things. If more players of MMORPGs would realise this (not helped by average player ages in the 'teens and twenties for most games) then MMORPG forums would be a lot less whiney and histrionic :p

Its fine to have different preferences than 'professional' traders. However, your actions should be consistent with your own goals/preferences. This is where logic and intelligence come in. Sure, if you're a suicide ganker or whatever who doesn't bother with the market or has no market skills, its fairly justifiable to not really explore that aspect of the game.

The most egregious example of the "dumb" people are the people that explicitly state that they desire only to make a profit by manufacturing, and then proceed to manufacture at a loss. This is mostly because they make the mistake of valuing their minerals at 0, when in fact they could sell their minerals at the same rate for a profit.

Originally by: Bish Ounen
Now, you look at this, as a non-miner, and see hours of boring labor to get to the actual "game" portion of EvE. For them THIS IS THE GAME. THIS is what they enjoy doing. The goal is to mine as much as possible, and to chat with buddies. The ore they mine is merely a byproduct of the experience, and a way to measure their progress.

So these miners get done emptying out that belt, get back to the Empire station they are based out of, and see all the ore. What do they do with it? Well lookie here! They can SELL that ore right there on the market! Even better, if they have good refining skills (might as well train that up once the mining skills are maxed out in a month or two) they can refine the ore and sell the minerals for EVEN MORE ISK! and now they all have big fat wallets and can go get cool stuff like mining implants and cargo rigs and T2 mining ships etc etc etc.

You seem to be saying that miners mine for the sake of mining. I can't fathom how someone would be so masochistic, but supposing that is true, then they mine for its own sake and the isk they get on top of it is just icing on the cake - as you say, something to fuel their future mining habits. They would be almost indifferent to having this isk from mining or not, but if people will buy their ore what the hell...why not sell it?

If this picture of miner psychology is correct, then miners really shouldn't respond to prices. Why mine ore A, when I already enjoy mining ore B, even though ore A would be more profitable? The thing is...miners ask themselves this question all the time and DO respond to prices. This means that they do put a value on ore (above 0) since they pick one ore over another based on market price.

Seriously though, if you know any of these 'mining for the sake of mining' miners, please put me in touch with a couple of them. I'd love to get a freighterload of half price ravens.

Posted - 2008.05.16 05:24:00 - [123]

Too many manufacturers, they flood the market, so their stuff sells at cost.
QQ stop building ships

Algia Knightstorm
Posted - 2008.05.20 12:11:00 - [124]

Originally by: Jessica 415
Originally by: Algia Knightstorm

The end product costs the same so that people getting in to it can compete with you. If you had it even better and could undercut everyone because you can make EVEN MORE at LESS COST how would they compete? they wouldn't. Why would anybody move into production if tey can't compete? They Wouldn't. You would effectivly kill off a trade.

so lets make a new player in a frig able to fight a Battleship flying player in a even match.

They can................ your point is lost on me. If you mean a frig beating a BS, worst analagy ever tbh.

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