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Krystal Foxglove
Caldari
Best Path Inc.
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2008.05.11 22:39:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Krystal Foxglove on 12/05/2008 00:35:19
As the topic says. I'm curious on what everyone's plans to make the RPG side of this MMORPG actually happen. As it stands, the lack of it is really dwindling my want to play...


So, tell me, what will you all do to improve the (in my opinion) major aspect of this game?

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2008.05.11 23:43:00 - [2]
 

Roleplay is as real as you make it, and will never be any more so or less so. I cannot support your imagination and will to RP and nor can anyone else.

Forkrul
Ministry of War
Posted - 2008.05.11 23:47:00 - [3]
 

This is the kind of thing I hope can Jade can push for. It seems to be her (his IRL) passion. With games coming out with so much more "space" and a more extensive style of play, something EVE will have to fall back on, other than already existing players, is immersion. EVE Online can no longer rely on being a huge gaming universe. There are even Fantasy Games that are going to come out which can claim more than EVE can with respect to that. While it is true they can just keep adding systems, complicated procedural generation, which seems to be all the rage recently, will simply trump that with far less effort. Perhaps EVE can delve into these ideas, but the best immediate accomodation is immerse the gamers into the game to buy enough time to come up with something competitive. Time needs to be baught for EVE to stay on top of the SCI-FI genre... and in order for that to happen, role-players somehow consulting the developers would go a long way to improve their ability to achieve such a goal.

At the same time, Jade clearly lays out a very practical yet extensive list of things in EVE that are important to the pilots. I just hope she(he) doesn't become incredibly biased toward LULz Explosions and Piracy. While it is nice to get someone when they can't get you back... it's only fun and funny when it's because they're stupid, not because there is no possible way for them out.

Inanna Zuni
Minmatar
The Causality
Electus Matari
Posted - 2008.05.11 23:50:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Inanna Zuni on 11/05/2008 23:52:37
Originally by: Krystal Foxglove
As the topic says. I'm curious on what everyone's plans to make the RPG side of this MMORPG actually happen. As it stands, the lack of it is really dwindling my want to play... So, tell me, what will you all do to improve the (in my opinion) major aspect of this game?

Krystal Foxglove, Captian of the Phantom Celeste


Well Captain Foxglove, RP is a major part of my activities as the alliance of which I am a member carries out all in-EVE activities IC; all channels, interactions, etc. and I very much enjoy the RP side but I agree with you that, somehow, it just doesn't 'happen' in terms of interaction outside of corps or alliances. All pilots read the news reports from our various systems (and worrying they are at the moment with the increasing unrest and rioting spreading over many constellations) but the level of opportunity to interact with those events is presently negligible. Maybe the Factional Warfare coming soon might increase such possibilities; I certainly hope so.

Some people clearly live in EVE for the pewpew and take little interest in any 'underlying story' and whilst they are certainly very welcome to keep clear of the RP elements I do feel that all pilots can get so much more out of 'the game' if they take on board what being Caldari, Matari, Gallente or Amarr means, and how we all interact.

CCP joined up with White Wolf in 2006 to improve this side of things, but so far it seems to me that WW are adding storylines rather than creating multi-player ongoing interaction (as their TT & LARP gaming does). There is clearly room for expansion here and I would like to see it come. Soon.

IZ

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2008.05.12 00:04:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Goumindong on 12/05/2008 00:04:47
Originally by: Forkrul

At the same time, Jade clearly lays out a very practical yet extensive list of things in EVE that are important to the pilots.

Are we talking about the same Jade Constantine?

Scagga Laebetrovo
Failure Assured
Posted - 2008.05.12 00:15:00 - [6]
 

Krystal,

I think the question you might be trying to ask isn't represented in the words you are using to phrase it. What I think you mean to say is how can roleplay be enhanced. It's hard to believe someone implying that the RPG of this game doesn't actually happen.

I'd like to ask if have you considered the following facts:

- One of the oldest surviving active corporations is an RP corp
- One of the most stable territorial alliances is an RP alliance
- Most of the best tournament pvp teams in this game are roleplayers
- Many of the best writers in this game are roleplayers
- Many of the most interesting people I've met in this game are roleplayers

But, I digress. I'd also like to ask:

- You are, I assume aware of the developments regarding MERCURY?
- And you are, I assume, aware of the incoming factional warfare?
- And you are, I assume, aware of the incoming ambulation?
- And you are, I assume, aware of the intergalactic summit and eve library?
- And you are, I assume, aware of the huge amount of material ISD is producing?

Those facts aside, I'll repeat that I think the question you might be wanting to ask is "how can we further enhance existing/planned enhancements for roleplay in eve?"


Forkrul
Ministry of War
Posted - 2008.05.12 00:16:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Forkrul on 12/05/2008 00:19:17
Edited by: Forkrul on 12/05/2008 00:17:51
Edited by: Forkrul on 12/05/2008 00:17:24
Edited by: Forkrul on 12/05/2008 00:16:53
Edited by: Forkrul on 12/05/2008 00:16:04
Originally by: Goumindong
Edited by: Goumindong on 12/05/2008 00:04:47
Are we talking about the same Jade Constantine?


I would just like to point out that the threads you linked in your very own thread actually showing other people being less progressive and more aggressive in a non-productive way first before Jade.

You're links in your thread to somehow degrade the public opinion of Jade Constantine are laughable at best. She(he) shows intelligence and understanding that every aspect of the game needs thoughts, whether little or big. Jade shows that it's all important, including nano***gtry. She was arguing on the basis that attention should eventually be allocated to the issue, not that we should drop everything else more important and immediate fix that when so many other things need fixing. Also, if you somehow thing that nano ships don't have an overbearing niche that may not be overbearing in terms of times used, but rather that when it is used in the certain circumstances, it will always win in these specific circumstances, then wtf? Not every circumstance, but you obviously don't understand the concept of people who aren't always in an alliance and those that tent to solo or small group play, very well.

Let me make this clear, I am voting for Jade in spite of being a carebear.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2008.05.12 00:28:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Goumindong on 12/05/2008 00:31:14
You're falling into here Ad hom and making up reasons for why you want to support her.

I have flown when not in large alliances or corps. I have and do partake in small gang warfare as part of small corps and large alliances. I fully understand the dynamics involved.

And Jade has made no argument towards priority of changes in those threads, and has actually said that the problem of nano-ships will fix itself if you remove sovereignty warfare and give nano-ships more goals.

edit:

Quote:

I would just like to point out that the threads you linked in your very own thread actually showing other people being less progressive and more aggressive in a non-productive way first before Jade.


Incorrect. You do not have the right timeline. The nano thread on this forum was nearly complete when that thread was linked on SCH.

Furthermore you clearly haven't read the end of the thread[or you would understand that there is a difference between being agressive, and arguing ad hominem]

Krystal Foxglove
Caldari
Best Path Inc.
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2008.05.12 00:30:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Krystal Foxglove on 12/05/2008 00:35:10
Originally by: Goumindong
Roleplay is as real as you make it, and will never be any more so or less so. I cannot support your imagination and will to RP and nor can anyone else.


I understand where you are coming from, so thanks for the response...

Originally by: Inanna Zuni
Edited by: Inanna Zuni on 11/05/2008 23:52:37
Well Captain Foxglove, RP is a major part of my activities as the alliance of which I am a member carries out all in-EVE activities IC; all channels, interactions, etc. and I very much enjoy the RP side but I agree with you that, somehow, it just doesn't 'happen' in terms of interaction outside of corps or alliances. All pilots read the news reports from our various systems (and worrying they are at the moment with the increasing unrest and rioting spreading over many constellations) but the level of opportunity to interact with those events is presently negligible. Maybe the Factional Warfare coming soon might increase such possibilities; I certainly hope so.

Some people clearly live in EVE for the pewpew and take little interest in any 'underlying story' and whilst they are certainly very welcome to keep clear of the RP elements I do feel that all pilots can get so much more out of 'the game' if they take on board what being Caldari, Matari, Gallente or Amarr means, and how we all interact.

IZ



It sounds like your corp is something I've dreamed about. A Corp that fully immerses themselves with roleplay and playing the game and I agree with your point about people living in EVE for the pewpew, it gets annoying with each and every corp you join, hoping for RP and it ends up just a big PvP fest...

Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo
Krystal,

I think the question you might be trying to ask isn't represented in the words you are using to phrase it. What I think you mean to say is how can roleplay be enhanced. It's hard to believe someone implying that the RPG of this game doesn't actually happen.

I'd like to ask if have you considered the following facts:

- One of the oldest surviving active corporations is an RP corp
- One of the most stable territorial alliances is an RP alliance
- Most of the best tournament pvp teams in this game are roleplayers
- Many of the best writers in this game are roleplayers
- Many of the most interesting people I've met in this game are roleplayers

But, I digress. I'd also like to ask:

- You are, I assume aware of the developments regarding MERCURY?
- And you are, I assume, aware of the incoming factional warfare?
- And you are, I assume, aware of the incoming ambulation?
- And you are, I assume, aware of the intergalactic summit and eve library?
- And you are, I assume, aware of the huge amount of material ISD is producing?

Those facts aside, I'll repeat that I think the question you might be wanting to ask is "how can we further enhance existing/planned enhancements for roleplay in eve?"




Thank you for correcting my statement into something I was trying to convey.. I appreciate that.

As for your assumptions, no, I haven't considered your facts or was aware of anything of that nature (Which is a shame on me... I should have delved up a bit more before creating this topic, possibly.)

I do, however, take a gander at the in game news that's reported in character, which does please me so I do know that some RP does happen... guess I wasn't looking in the right directions.

Though, I still would like to know exactly what people can do. I mean, the faction channels (Caldari, Amarr and the like) barely have roleplay and the people who go "LOL U SUX CUZ U RP, LOSER" (Generalization, mind you.) kill some of the immersive aspect that some people take or try to take here.

(And if any of what I said didn't make sense, lemme know, I'll try to clarify.)

Forkrul
Ministry of War
Posted - 2008.05.12 00:33:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Forkrul on 12/05/2008 00:44:11
I'm sorry, but I just showed my support for Jade in that she is a role-player and another candidate decided to take it upon theirself to tip it off. I am sorry for supporting that derailment.

Krystal Foxglove
Caldari
Best Path Inc.
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2008.05.12 00:35:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Forkrul
Edited by: Forkrul on 12/05/2008 00:34:09
Random Offtopic garbage.




Can we please keep this topic... on topic?

Revan Neferis
Amarr
Bloodveil
BLOOD EMPIRE
Posted - 2008.05.12 01:48:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Goumindong
Roleplay is as real as you make it, and will never be any more so or less so. I cannot support your imagination and will to RP and nor can anyone else.


As absurd as it seems, this is one of the best answers I've seen given to the topic (even in different threads) so far.
Simple but objective.

Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Posted - 2008.05.12 01:48:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Krystal Foxglove
As the topic says. I'm curious on what everyone's plans to make the RPG side of this MMORPG actually happen. As it stands, the lack of it is really dwindling my want to play...

So, tell me, what will you all do to improve the (in my opinion) major aspect of this game?

Over time I've come to learn that the choice to roleplay is down to the individual. Some make it easier on themselves by joining an RP corp; if you're unhappy about the RP aspect of where you are, perhaps you could consider the same. Otherwise, if you are really only being bothered by those who seek to deliberately break your immersion, there's always the block button.

I can't really think of a way to better improve relations between RPers and non-RPers directly, although if punishments for stupid behaviour in general were more strict, we could possibly expect an improvement across the board as a result.

/Ben

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2008.05.12 01:57:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Revan Neferis
Originally by: Goumindong
Roleplay is as real as you make it, and will never be any more so or less so. I cannot support your imagination and will to RP and nor can anyone else.


As absurd as it seems, this is one of the best answers I've seen given to the topic (even in different threads) so far.
Simple but objective.


Thank you.

Omber Zombie
Gallente
Frontier Technologies
Posted - 2008.05.12 04:21:00 - [15]
 

While I agree with Goum (yes, I can see the snow in hell atm) there are somethings ccp could do to help RPers in eve.

Things like having an official Dev in charge of player run RP events to help people out (like the racing league as an example) where they can help to spawn markers to help the universe feel more interactive /immersive than relying on hodge-podge player based solutions would be a great thing.

Basically, a way for Dev's/GM's to give players tools or at least the option of asking for help from them, to expand the story part of the game through in-game activity.

Eve has a rich backstory and the RP elements of it haven't had a lot of tools available to them in the past to help expand it.

zoolkhan
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2008.05.12 04:37:00 - [16]
 

i am a roleplayer since 5 years.

the 2nd oldest still active alliance in this game is a roleplay alliance - the only by a few hours younger alliance has been to a great extend roleplay oriented is now effectively holding
almost an entire region in 0.0 space. (the chin man gang :-)

roleplay is at times hard, if no one playes back. This is coused by intolerance, nothing a csm can do about directly. But indirectly i can suggest a few things

- wars and actuons we do between the rivaling races and factions must have an impact that
everybody can feel.
- buffer zones in which pvp and pve against the other race can occur w/o concord interferrance
teh outcomes of those battles make it into a database from which "consequences" are rendered.

- i want to see more than a lousy news line that nobody cares about

- i want polaris back

- i want storyline missions that are unpredictable and can be recognised as part of something greater

- i want electroshocks for people giving themselfes stupid names (niet tegen jouw ankh*.*)

- i want NPC recognition of great achievents a player made
say, you liberated 50.000 slaves in a massive raid in amarr - a NPC faction should
reward you with something nice... it cannot come from the republic, they oppose military use against amarr (whimps) but it can come from thukkers, or from your tribe

vice versa, i know so many veterans amongst the loyalists who would deserve to fill the throne
of the amarr empire.. hell why not.

any of this should not affect the non-rp in a negative way, but encourages to participate
it bears fun. Additional to the factinal warfare.







Bunyip
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2008.05.12 06:29:00 - [17]
 

I believe RP has plenty of opportunity in this game, though I agree that the devs could take some steps to make it more prevalent. The problem with Eve is that there is so much to do that it overwhelms people. Being a sandbox game, the options you can do often get in the way of the desire to RP, but some people purposely do that.

I have had other characters who RP'd, and I'm a veteran PnP RPG'er. They have the material and opportunities, but the sandbox feature gets in the way. To really encourage RPing, they'd have to dumb down the game, and I'm quite sure nobody wants that.

Hardin
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.12 09:57:00 - [18]
 

Inanna Zunni, Scagga, Goumindong & Zoolkhan have pretty much covered everything that I would have - so will spare you having to read much more.

All I will say is that EVE is a sandbox and we make it what we want it. While many players do not class themselves as roleplayers the the fact is that we are ALL roleplayers in EVE. We all have the opportunity to build a reputation, image and story around ourselves and some of the most impressive roleplayers are those who probably wouldn't even acknowledge they are doing it aka SirMolle and EvilThug.

As others have stated there are a lot of RP 'enhancements' inbound and I welcome these and hope they work as promised. However, I also feel that overall game balance does contribute to the 'roleplay' experience and will work to ensure that varied playstyle choices are maintained and enhanced.

We have to be able to build empires - but when those empires become lax and degenerate we also need to be able to tear them down. For every 'Roman Empire' we need a 'Vandal Horde' and for or every 'Caeser' we need a 'Genghis Khan'.


Spoon Thumb
Khanid Provincial Vanguard
Vanguard Imperium
Posted - 2008.05.12 11:33:00 - [19]
 


There was a fantastic discussion about all the problems of RP in eve on general discussion a few months back. Unfotunately can't find the thread now, but it pretty much rubbishes a number of replies in this thread

What really concerns me is that there are all sorts of people who spend huge amounts of effort building up their own little RP events or activities that really let them get immersed in the world of Eve.

It is really heart wrenching is seeing all that hard work and effort and enjoyment get shattered because it is all based on obscure and sometimes broken game mechanics, that CCP one day randomly decide to "fix"

Stuff like the Azia Burgi's cemetary or Gyra Rho's ISGC races are massive, massive time sinks and require some excessive amount of effort because they are built on sh***y can mechanics

In the cemetary case, that thing had been around for a year or so before it ever made the news, then boom 2 weeks later it gets randomly nerfed to hell and back. CCP Prism X never moved any of those cans, nor help arrange for standings to erect a POS. And why should he get guilt tripped into helping with something that is not his job?

A better example is what happened to Hedonistic Imperative a while back. They'd build a whole corp and alliance on smuggling drugs for those Agent offers. When that got nerfed, CCP actually came out and said "Ah, we didn't actually think anyone bothered with those..." Then some time later and Hedonistic had created an interesting roleplay theme along illegal boosters, doing secret drops in high sec space, smuggling the stuff in from 0.0, doing shady deals. What do CCP do? They make boosters and all illegal items buyable and sellable in stations where they are illegal. No need to do shady deals or station trades or in-space drop offs.

You can buy slaves in Pator straight off the market... and if other players try to blow up your hauler when you undock they get Concorded

You're only allowed to roleplay what CCP intended for you to. There's pleanty more examples where instead of supporting or improving the mechanics people have build their own roleplay stuff around, CCP simply go "Oh, we didn't intend for that" and promptly nerf it

What really makes Eve exciting is that when you take a system from your enemy in 0.0 or destroy his/her MS it is persistant, it is a lasting change that stays in the game

This is not translated into roleplaying in Eve.

---

What kicked off this whole CSM thing? The allegations of Event rigging amongst other things. The fact is there is an attitude of CCP wanting to have too much control over the game. The sandbox is 0.0 only and woe betide anyone who doesn't build sand castles

What we really need is some real power to the new storyline & rp teams (Mercury etc), so that the Eve universe feels dynamic, so systems actually change hands between the Empires, stations ruined by battles and terrorists or new ones built after involvement from the players. There is a balance needed for sure to stop things getting out of hand, but atm Empire is utterly static

The other thing we really need is a generic set of tools, in-game objects that can serve as the building blocks, so we don't have to rely on buggy small audit containers or unintended mechanics, but have some blank slates onto which players can create their own stories and events

---

Anyway, I'm not running or anything, just wanted to make the point I really don't like the candidates taking the same "business as usual" line that CCP do with regard to RP

Revan Neferis
Amarr
Bloodveil
BLOOD EMPIRE
Posted - 2008.05.12 13:02:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Revan Neferis
Originally by: Goumindong
Roleplay is as real as you make it, and will never be any more so or less so. I cannot support your imagination and will to RP and nor can anyone else.


As absurd as it seems, this is one of the best answers I've seen given to the topic (even in different threads) so far.
Simple but objective.


Thank you.


You're welcome.

I'd like to add that your answer is precise to the point because it covers many aspects of what we have been seen in eve lately.
I'm a role players as well for a few years, my character a bit public and controvertial so I can say that I have experienced many facets of it.
Nowadays, with a little experience I can trully say that ccp can not be responsible or improve your will to role play in game. The immersion factor is also pending upon player base, independent than what is said about actors in game or not.
Having ccp creating events, ISD giving propper attention to player news, it's great. But also causes the steriotype that anything outside of it is non valid or less worth it.
I believe that this was one of the greastest issues since Aurora was gone.
This said, I believe that the best way CSM candidates can support role play is just by having the will to take a look and perhaps become more active in their own ways. Participating or making events, divulging, knowing the prime fiction, trying to give their own share to it.

It was a pleasing surprise to meet many of you at my event and see that the will is there.
GL all.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2008.05.12 13:56:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Goumindong on 12/05/2008 14:13:17
Originally by: Spoon Thumb


A better example is what happened to Hedonistic Imperative a while back. They'd build a whole corp and alliance on smuggling drugs for those Agent offers. When that got nerfed, CCP actually came out and said "Ah, we didn't actually think anyone bothered with those..." Then some time later and Hedonistic had created an interesting roleplay theme along illegal boosters, doing secret drops in high sec space, smuggling the stuff in from 0.0, doing shady deals. What do CCP do? They make boosters and all illegal items buyable and sellable in stations where they are illegal. No need to do shady deals or station trades or in-space drop offs.



Did Al Capone stop being a gangster after Prohibition was lifted?

Part of roleplaying is understanding and conforming your play to the game world. If a group was smuggling drugs and suddenly it got easier for them then they just have to deal with their RP changing.

Now that isn't to say that some things are a bit confusing sometimes. But it is to say that things are a bit confusing in real life too, and if you are going to roleplay a character believably you are going to have to come to grips that sometimes, things won't have simple easy explanations hand-crafted for how you want to roleplay. Make decisions as your character would under those circumstances instead of being married to the idea of a static character in a static world. Roleplay is about how your character reacts to the world and not how you want the world to react to your character.

Quote:

What we really need is some real power to the new storyline & rp teams (Mercury etc), so that the Eve universe feels dynamic, so systems actually change hands between the Empires, stations ruined by battles and terrorists or new ones built after involvement from the players. There is a balance needed for sure to stop things getting out of hand, but atm Empire is utterly static


I wonder how we can give Mercury more power than Aurora had without making it even more corrupt than Aurora was?

Hopefully factional warfare will ease a bit of this tension by making a system by which things can change. Then Roleplayers can conform their RP to the system and play as they wish without it being manipulated directly by people with low-accountability.

One thing Mercury can do well is to give RP justification for balanced based changes, and being volunteer based its pretty much up to the interested players to get it done. And this is pretty much all that is required to hold a consistent world for all players as changes come in.

I.E. when drugs became tradable on the market someone would have been able to write this news story

"BLACK MARKET SPRINGS UP ANEW

Staff Reporter - Jamie Gimmel

JITA - CONCORD is reporting increased incidents of black market trade going through unfettered in stations all across New Eden. An increase in the demand for illegal goods has created these underground markets. The black marketeers mask their transactions by piggy backing extra units on a good or number of goods sold as a similar price. No word on any progress made to stop the transactions, though it does look like its proliferation has been limited mainly to pod pilots."

Then there is a unified backstory to the change.

ed: But the mechanisms are already in place to make this happen and the onus is entirely on the players to get it done.

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.05.12 15:54:00 - [22]
 

Well Krystal, there are a couple of problems with Roleplay in Eve to my eyes. The first problem is lack of consequence for actions in game to the background politics of the game.

Example being standings – Eve has never really made standings matter that much for anything other than NPC mission-running LP bonuses and such. Case in point being the whole matter of NPC-standings derived from shooting NPC pirate drones in NPC pirate space. Ratters generate massive negative-standings to specific Pirate factions but these have absolutely no impact on docking at stations provided by those same Pirate factions. It’s a small point perhaps, but having a game system that allows me to ruthlessly murder 10,000 Gurista warships and then have the Gurista station controller saying “Ah yes please Ms Constantine you’re quite welcome to dock at our facility!” begins to impact the suspension of disbelief just a little.

Another case in point was the past activity of Aurora and in-game Events and the way they tended to back down from enforcing consequence for deeds. I remember the Caldari State sponsoring a Race event once upon a time and having the race disrupted by members of the Curse Alliance (player empire) and there was a great scandal and news pieces with the Caldari State demanding apologies and getting “smack-talked” by these player upstarts but ultimately nothing really happened.

I’d like to see role-play with “teeth”. I’d like to see the Caldari State about to deny docking at Caldari Stations until such point as the Curse Alliance leadership actually apologised and paid compensation perhaps.

Such things make the game environment “real” and show that your decisions have real political impact. This would allow event staff to actually punish characters that crash events with the express intention of “blowing stuff up for lulz” with permanent standings penalties and realistic sanctions commensurate with their behaviour.

Of course these things do need a significant investment from CCP in intelligent factional response to political impetus, and there is a no alternative to event actors and storyline devs actually being aware of player actions and political stances and making the appropriate moves in turn with transparency and appropriate oversight to ensure clean and balanced decision making.

And the other end of the debate (at least traditionally) is that roleplay corporations/alliances have tended to be a bit isolationist themselves and adopt a snooty-superior-than-though attitude to the rest of the server and play within their little sandbox-within-a-sandbox because “that’s where the nice people are.”

This causes more problems than it solves, and ultimately unless corporations and alliances are prepared to interact with the rest of the server they are building a ghetto for themselves rather than promoting roleplay as a good and progressive playstyle that can be very rewarding and meaningful on a political level when the whole balance is right.

Anyway quite a lot there so the short bullets:

1. Encourage CCP led-events, news teams; advocate enhanced toolsets and rules of engagement.
2. Promote RP issues, background continuity, and meaningful standings and argue for an npc political situation “with teeth.
3. Encourage full engagement of RP corps and alliances with the wider community. This is a two-way process, individual players, corps, alliances need to take the plunge and define themselves in these terms while CCP should be prepared to recognize that RP is good for their game and ensure that NPC entities and personalities give appropriate recognition to leading RP forces in turn.

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.05.12 15:55:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Jade Constantine on 12/05/2008 16:39:22

And a final closing thought. RP doesn’t always have to be about shooting X,Y,Z faction.

One my all time favourite RP events in Eve was the transcranial-microcontroller craze a few years ago. This had news pieces discussing the introduction of the technology, some pros and cons, politics and scandals as the Amarrians used them for slave control and the Gallente used them for sex toys, and it was an entertaining diversion for a bit on the log-in news and such.

Then. One of our members discovered it wasn’t just fluff – there was actually an extremely profitable in-game trade route opportunity moving these things from the Ishukone stations to destination markets and if you moved fast you could make hundreds of millions from the cargo bays of frigates!

It was an event that meant something! Soon we had competitors rushing for trade rights, wardecs between industrial corps, bulk buying and sharp practices and fortunes being made and lost. And all this because somebody at CCP wrote a story arc and had the ability to introduce a new trade good to the game and make the market price reflect the passage of the on-going storyline. Everything else was down to player reaction and competitive play and it was truly excellent.

Sometimes CCP does get it right and that event was a superb example. More of this please – more tools for Event Staff to influence the market and local conditions and more setting up the canvas for player conflict on open-ended consequence and outcome.

Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2008.05.12 16:20:00 - [24]
 

Another good example of a mass in-game event was the cathedral being moved from Kor-Azor Prime to Amarr.

I know that agent missions aren't everyone's cup of tea, but the missions to move the cathedral piece by piece (or to stop NPC convoys carrying said bricks) were actually quite good fun, and led to all sorts of co-operation, conflict and all round RP fun.

It also ended before things got too repetitive and boring.

And what's more, there were no in-game event actors required, so there's no reason why something similar can't be done in the future!

On a similar note, I would love to see the market get affected more often by news items and the like, but sadly CCP haven't really done this as much as they could

Breha Organa
Posted - 2008.05.12 17:35:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Krystal Foxglove
Edited by: Krystal Foxglove on 12/05/2008 00:35:19
As the topic says. I'm curious on what everyone's plans to make the RPG side of this MMORPG actually happen. As it stands, the lack of it is really dwindling my want to play...


So, tell me, what will you all do to improve the (in my opinion) major aspect of this game?



Krystal, I think the next expansion, Empyrean Age, proves to be a step in the right direction. I know players who have become fully immersed in the background story of EVE. I, myself, have taken the opportunity to "role-play" with other players. Without going into too much detail, I created a private channel (name omitted) in which I invite a guest to visit me in my Penthouse suite on the top of one of the crystal skysc****rs on the "Crystal Boulevard" on my home planet of Intaki... gives me an opportunity to unwind, and enjoy a little bit of my own kind of creative fun.

My "best friend" in my corp is an Amarran pilot, who has no trouble with slavery as long as the slaves are treated "decently". When I have to do missions for "the hated Amarr" I always tell myself it's for "the greater good" and will one day return to my own "people" to fight for freedom.

So, in answer to your question, there are players who are very much interested in the background story of EVE, not just the part about accumulating wealth and power. Before joining a PVP corp, I thought it would be interesting to join a corp whose primary interest was to see that the "Sisters of EVE" prosper and accomplish their goals... to free as many slaves from the hands of the Amarr... and to fight injustice... that sort of thing.

It is possible to do this. You just have to find other players who are interested in the same "goals" as you as far as developing the back story. Mission-running is fun when done in groups, especially the higher level missions. Personally, however, I think we need some fresh missions at all levels.

If you ask on the forums regarding what you'd like to do with regard to role-play, especially in the recruitment area, I bet you'd find others with the same interests that you have. Or, feel free to convo me in game. I'd be happy to discuss this more with you.

Breha Organa
Posted - 2008.05.12 17:49:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine

One my all time favourite RP events in Eve was the transcranial-microcontroller craze a few years ago. This had news pieces discussing the introduction of the technology, some pros and cons, politics and scandals as the Amarrians used them for slave control and the Gallente used them for sex toys, and it was an entertaining diversion for a bit on the log-in news and such.

Sometimes CCP does get it right and that event was a superb example. More of this please – more tools for Event Staff to influence the market and local conditions and more setting up the canvas for player conflict on open-ended consequence and outcome.



Yes, I remember this Jade! Had I discovered the trade potential, I probably would have attempted it myself. I agree, more of this kind of thing would be terrific!

Spoon Thumb
Khanid Provincial Vanguard
Vanguard Imperium
Posted - 2008.05.12 23:45:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Goumindong

Originally by: Spoon Thumb

What we really need is some real power to the new storyline & rp teams (Mercury etc), so that the Eve universe feels dynamic, so systems actually change hands between the Empires, stations ruined by battles and terrorists or new ones built after involvement from the players. There is a balance needed for sure to stop things getting out of hand, but atm Empire is utterly static


I wonder how we can give Mercury more power than Aurora had without making it even more corrupt than Aurora was?



I'd suggest that whatever you or other people think CSM is all about, CCP's view is that CSM members are there to convince the player base they are not corrupt

I also think a lot of people want Aurora back, but with audit trails this time

Spoon Thumb
Khanid Provincial Vanguard
Vanguard Imperium
Posted - 2008.05.13 01:02:00 - [28]
 


The point about those stories I gave was that there is no consideration for impact on people's RP by the Devs. Stuff isn't designed for what it gets used for and because there are no generic tools.

It is only when someone starts complaining on the forums that their RP thing is getting nerfed that they actually realise the game mechanics are being used for something other than what they designed them for. But they're still happy to go ahead with changes as "It wasn't designed to be used that way anyway"

---

If the legal system in Eve was applied to RL:

I'm looking to get high, so I walk into a shopping mall. There are police with sniffer dogs on some doors but not others, and they keep randomly rotating around the doors. But they only check you when you enter or exit

I walk into a shop selling drugs or whatever. It has a big sign on the front of it advertising exactly what it sells and is even listed in the little map of the mall I pick up at the information desk under the "illegal stuff" section

On the shelves are all sorts and varieties of illegal drugs and substances for sale. There are also a number of shifty looking individuals who I assume are dealers and can provide me with whatever isn't on the shelves. Finally there are a series of lockers

I can pick something off the shelf, buy it and get totally off my face, walk out the door and back into the street and so long as I've used it all up, the police wave me on my way

Alternatively I decide to keep some stashed on my person. I take a few looks around and low and behold, there is a door with no police on it. Despite them just having watched me enter the store, make a purchase and exit again they make no effort to approach me or change their rotation so the door I'm headed for is guarded

So then I decide to try my luck directly against the guards. They are stood on the inside, but not the outside. As I get to the door, one of the officers raises his hand: "Excuse me sir.." he begins to say as his dog starts going bananas beside him. But it is too late, I'm already pushing through the door and beyond the threshold on the other side, and he does nothing to try to follow me.

Back in the shop and I'm now happily exchanging cash for hard drugs with the shady guys lurking around

But time is running out for me, I got places to go and I need to leave my **** here. So I place the drugs in one of the lockers. It refuses to lock for no apparent reason. Weird... so I put something else completely innocent in one and it locks fine. Just not with drugs or anything else illegal

Then I for whatever reason decide to put a can of beer in the locker. It refuses to lock again, even though there is nothing illegal in it, just the can of beer.

So I ask one of the shop assistants "Why can't I put anything illegal in these lockers, even though I can buy and sell all this **** on display and walk past the cops with it?"

"Because you can't put anything illegal in these lockers sir" is the reply. WTF!?

"New question, why can't I put a can of beer in the locker, that's legal right?"

"Yes sir, but it is illegal in Saudi Arabia."

I check the lockers. They are bolted to the floor. "But we're not in Saudi.."

"I know sir"

"And the lockers are bolted to the floor.. They're never going to go to Saudi Arabia, or anywhere else for that matter"

"I know sir"

"So why can't I put stuff that is legal in this country but not in other countries in the lockers?"

"because it is illegal somewhere in the world. You can't use the lockers for anything that might be illegal somewhere in the world"

---

Seriously, I've seen better flash gangster MMO's made by some kid in their basement. And you're telling me to just "work around it" ?!

Sariyah
HUN Corp.
HUN Reloaded
Posted - 2008.05.13 11:46:00 - [29]
 

The "Im a hawt blonde caldari lets cyber" or "omg Guristas are helping Imp so not fair wtf" kind of RP? :)
I don't care much for RP, some RPers are so silly (I'm sure there's the better ones, too, I probably never seen one in action tho).

Esmenet
Gallente
Posted - 2008.05.13 12:22:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine

1. Encourage CCP led-events, news teams; advocate enhanced toolsets and rules of engagement.



CCP led events might sound good in theory but there is a reason why most mmo's abandon such ideas.

- First of all it costs money in terms of wages to support what is usually a small segment of the population.
- Giving advantages/rewards for such events generate whining on the forums. True or not the people handling such events will immediately be seen as corrupt.
- Open events with identifiable ccp characters tend to attract people with no intention of following "the rules".
- Advertised mass events attracts more spectators than the system can handle, leading to more whines and a general bad experience for all while costing extra cash to set up.
- Small scale events where few people are invited tends to be seen as favouritism.

RP in mmo's suffer from two major problems. The general lack of hardcore RP'ers compared to others, and the fact that dev led events cost money.

Imo EVE offers more for a RP'er than any other mmo out there but its mostly in 0.0. What you can hope for is more mechanics to help players stage their own events. Its doubtful that CCP will involve themselves directly in ingame events to any great extent.


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