open All Channels
seplocked Jita Park Speakers Corner
blankseplocked Speed Tanking: A litmus test for some voters.. Candidates?
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7

Author Topic

Sariyah
HUN Corp.
HUN Reloaded
Posted - 2008.05.15 17:19:00 - [91]
 

Edited by: Sariyah on 15/05/2008 17:19:25
1000 plated frigs should be > anything, ye?
Creating lag is not a legitimate tactic, fitting is.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2008.05.15 18:16:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: Sariyah
Edited by: Sariyah on 15/05/2008 17:19:25
1000 plated frigs should be > anything, ye?
Creating lag is not a legitimate tactic, fitting is.



No. Would you like a description of what a strawman argument is?

Sariyah
HUN Corp.
HUN Reloaded
Posted - 2008.05.15 19:16:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Sariyah
Edited by: Sariyah on 15/05/2008 17:19:25
1000 plated frigs should be > anything, ye?
Creating lag is not a legitimate tactic, fitting is.



No. Would you like a description of what a strawman argument is?


I'm sure you know all about it.
Besides, I guess you understood and are just pretending.

Writing pages long essays can sometimes create an interesting read for others, it may very well get you known on forums, but it can't change facts. That is, there are different ships and tactics for different situations, and PvPers probably don't want to be locked into the cage of mediocrity where only one tactic is present, that is approach your enemy and shoot, and the bigger blob kills the other. I think you'd call nanos a tactic of self-preservation, aye? You approved self-preservation tactics last time I checked.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2008.05.15 19:21:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Sariyah
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Sariyah
Edited by: Sariyah on 15/05/2008 17:19:25
1000 plated frigs should be > anything, ye?
Creating lag is not a legitimate tactic, fitting is.



No. Would you like a description of what a strawman argument is?


I'm sure you know all about it.
Besides, I guess you understood and are just pretending.

Writing pages long essays can sometimes create an interesting read for others, it may very well get you known on forums, but it can't change facts. That is, there are different ships and tactics for different situations, and PvPers probably don't want to be locked into the cage of mediocrity where only one tactic is present, that is approach your enemy and shoot, and the bigger blob kills the other. I think you'd call nanos a tactic of self-preservation, aye? You approved self-preservation tactics last time I checked.



I absolutely approve of using them. I use them myself. That doesn't mean i think their balanced and that doesn't mean they should not get fixed.

I am not proposing only one tactic be present. Currently pretty much only one tactic is present[unless you are shooting POS or absolutely must move something heavy] and its nanoing. That is a problem.

Sariyah
HUN Corp.
HUN Reloaded
Posted - 2008.05.15 19:30:00 - [95]
 

Roaming gangs, you can't judge people for wanting to be mobile. Sometimes you need to go quite some jumps to get a fight. Agility helps with that, and the speed is both for "tanking" and self-preservation, and I am not sure why some don't accept the solutions of another nano gang or webs. I personally think it's fun, and I can go home quickly if I need to. If I need to log, I can also try to go home alone, although it's still damn risky going through a gate camp.
I have used short range tanked hacs/bcs/bses in the past and I'm sure I will again, true, it's rare. But trust me if a heavy / slow gang is incoming we'll try to match it with the same since you can't effectively fight them in useless low dps nano ships. If you get a web or neut on you, you can easily get 1 shotted by 1-2 short range BSes.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2008.05.15 19:51:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: Sariyah
Roaming gangs, you can't judge people for wanting to be mobile. Sometimes you need to go quite some jumps to get a fight. Agility helps with that, and the speed is both for "tanking" and self-preservation, and I am not sure why some don't accept the solutions of another nano gang or webs. I personally think it's fun, and I can go home quickly if I need to. If I need to log, I can also try to go home alone, although it's still damn risky going through a gate camp.
I have used short range tanked hacs/bcs/bses in the past and I'm sure I will again, true, it's rare. But trust me if a heavy / slow gang is incoming we'll try to match it with the same since you can't effectively fight them in useless low dps nano ships. If you get a web or neut on you, you can easily get 1 shotted by 1-2 short range BSes.


I am not blaming people for wanting to be mobile. I am not blaming people for gravitating to the options that are overpowered. What I am doing is saying that they are overpowered and for the good of the game ought to be fixed

People don't accept the solutions of "other nano" because its the same thing as the problem. I.E. I can't get a gang together and say "they are in nano-ships, so we need X" and expect to have a reasonable chance of killing them. The best i can do is say "they are in nano-ships, get nano-ships". Otherwise there is no reason to undock. This is something you can do for all other gangs. You can say "they have an RR gang, we need X" and then execute your strategy that does not involve RR bs to kill them.

Its like rock paper scissors. If Rock beats scissors and paper beats rock but scissors doesn't beat paper then everyone flies paper and the only way to win is to bring more paper.

Sariyah
HUN Corp.
HUN Reloaded
Posted - 2008.05.15 21:29:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Goumindong
I am not blaming people for gravitating to the options that are overpowered. What I am doing is saying that they are overpowered and for the good of the game ought to be fixed

Your choice of words is disturbing. People always try to choose the better of two options, and yes for roaming gangs this is fast ships. Nanos were nerfed already. Ceptors are faster than cruisers, cruisers are faster than BSes. It's the order of things and it's fine.
As it has been said already, fit a good neut on a short range BS then shoot them. Neuts are as bad to nano ships as webs.
I'm not blaming you for trying to get the votes of a part of the playerbase that wants to have only slow ships; fair or not, justified or not, it was expected that certain candidates will not see much beyond the number of votes they get. What I am saying is that those people will ruin the game for others while rendering certain ships useless. While promoting nerfs some can gain popularity, it's not the ethical thing to do, not to mention that it's terribly shortsighted for a programme. I fly different ships for different ops and never felt the need to whine about one or another being overpowered. It's never a small gang of ships that win or lose a war, it's the politics and the leadership. It all depends on the people. If you're good you win, if you're bad you lose. Same thing applies to small gang fights.

TheSmokeGoesUp
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.05.15 22:08:00 - [98]
 

Nano ships should be preserved as a valid tactic.

As hardin says improve counters.

I'm biased as a caldari but -

Make precision missiles ACTUALLY useful against fast moving targets - decrease their damage, increase their speed so they can hit, and improve the explosion radius, making smaller missiles actively more able to hit faster targets giving a lease of life to assault launchers and making missile combateers required to rig up with missile rigs and implants to keep up with nano pilots who raise their game. (in the case of Jades description of people raising their game with superior drugs/implants/etc.) but providing a sustained viable source of dps against nano ships.

Atm Precision missiles are just vaguely more expensive missiles with unpleasant penalties that without compromising your fit still can't catch a semi decent nano-vessel.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2008.05.15 22:12:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: Sariyah

Your choice of words is disturbing. People always try to choose the better of two options, and yes for roaming gangs this is fast ships. Nanos were nerfed already. Ceptors are faster than cruisers, cruisers are faster than BSes. It's the order of things and it's fine.


There is no problem with people choosing the better of two options. There is no problem with people choosing fast ships. After changes are made people will still choose fast ships. The point is not to kill fast ships but to reduce their ability to disengage.

Nanos were not nerfed already and are still at an unprecedented boost since their pre nov 06 level, the istab "nerf" actually made cruisers faster. The fact that currently a speed fit BC is faster and more agile with more dps and more EHP than a tanked cruiser only serves to illustrate how much this breaks the game.

Quote:

I'm not blaming you for trying to get the votes of a part of the playerbase that wants to have only slow ships


I am not doing **** for any votes. I find your accusation offensive.

Dungar Loghoth
Caldari
Gank Bangers
Posted - 2008.05.15 22:29:00 - [100]
 

you can reduce all of gourmindong's arguments to "i got owned by nanos and i'll get my revenege!!!!"

Dungar Loghoth
Caldari
Gank Bangers
Posted - 2008.05.15 22:30:00 - [101]
 

my harbinger can't go very fast so no one else should!!!!

Dungar Loghoth
Caldari
Gank Bangers
Posted - 2008.05.15 22:32:00 - [102]
 

guys this stuff is broken elect me so i can fix it

*thinks omens are nanoships and numbers beat everything*

Dungar Loghoth
Caldari
Gank Bangers
Posted - 2008.05.15 22:33:00 - [103]
 

x be right there guys gotta nano up this falcon

Xofii
Hedion University
Posted - 2008.05.15 22:57:00 - [104]
 

Dung, you seem fairly ******ed tbh, you arent arguing merits at all, your just flinging poo. \o/ wtf man. Nanos are owerpowered, but since there is nothing to replace them with that wouldnt seriously hurt roaming gangs there simply isnt any easy fix. The fact that polycarboned hacs have become the ONLY viable option in roaming gangs, except the odd ewar ship or ceptor/dictor says alot. Noone wants to remove the possibility of using high sp high isk high risk setups from the game, however there should be circu,stance that occur atleast 20% of the time where a uber tanked slaved upp hac outperforms a nano hac, there simply isnt. HENCE unbalance.

//Xofii

Efdi
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.05.16 00:04:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: Xofii
:words:


Except Dungar knows what he's talking about, unlike Goumindongs.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2008.05.16 00:11:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: Efdi
Originally by: Xofii
:words:


Except Dungar knows what he's talking about, unlike Goumindongs.


Then why have we not seen a logical argument from him?

Dungar Loghoth
Caldari
Gank Bangers
Posted - 2008.05.16 00:44:00 - [107]
 

Edited by: Dungar Loghoth on 16/05/2008 00:46:31
it recently came to my attention that you have 0 experience, kills or deaths, with nano gangs, so you can argue "logic" all you want, but I'm going to keep calling it "eft" and "bull****"

it's pretty sad when your own directors are willing to tell me that a) you have no chance at winning the CSM b) everyone hates you c) you're an idiot and d) all you do is theorycraft.

im not going to bother seriously answering your posts anymore because you got thumped by a nano gang, like most people that hate nanos, and you decided to make it the issue you were going to run on. That's fine, there's a long laundry list of successful, single-issue political campaigns, such as,

Efdi
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.05.16 01:45:00 - [108]
 

furthermore,

Viper ShizzIe
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.05.16 01:58:00 - [109]
 

Originally by: Goumindong


Then why have we not seen a logical argument from him?


When will we see a logical argument from you, to be quite honest. All I've been hearing from you in this thread is *****ing and hypocrisy.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2008.05.16 06:34:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: Viper ShizzIe
Originally by: Goumindong


Then why have we not seen a logical argument from him?


When will we see a logical argument from you, to be quite honest. All I've been hearing from you in this thread is *****ing and hypocrisy.


Hypocrisy? Oh, do tell.

Also, i would also love to hear why my arguments are not logical.

Sariyah
HUN Corp.
HUN Reloaded
Posted - 2008.05.16 07:51:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: Goumindong
Then why have we not seen a logical argument from him?

Actually he offered quite some but you keep ignoring them Very Happy he's not as skilled and patient at arguing than you. You probably talk a lot in RL too (job related? :) ).

Originally by: Goumindong
The fact that currently a speed fit BC is faster and more agile with more dps and more EHP than a tanked cruiser only serves to illustrate how much this breaks the game.

That might be valid for certain BC compared to certain cruiser but not all for sure. Also tanked ships can fit a repairer for example while a speed ship won't. Not to mention it is 2 different ship classes. A speed cruiser is faster than a speed BC, and a tanked BC > tanked cruiser. Seems fine to me.
Originally by: Goumindong
Also, i would also love to hear why my arguments are not logical.

To me it seems that you are trying to manipulate the simple masses by coming up with arguments that are partially true, but as a whole, not really. A valid and efficient way of doing it. Lies that bear some parts of the truth are harder to identify.

It is possible to counter a nano gang, and you'd be surprised how often a nano gang choses not to fight a force that's even in numbers but with heavier ships. It's their advantage given by their agility (mostly coming from the ship class, then some from fittings). I wouldn't like to go and tackle a short ranges BS or Raven while in a speed fitted ship, if they fitted a neut it's very dangerous and I can be toast in 2 volleys. If they don't have one, though, yeah a speed fitted gang can kill them, altho still takes quite a lot of time. Also, I seen tanked ship kill nano ship, takes a bit of maneuvering but if they can put a web it's game over in seconds, literally. Inertia is speed ships enemy most of the time. But pilots that still simply use 'approach' in tanked ships after all these years deserve to die. :)

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2008.05.16 08:24:00 - [112]
 

Edited by: Goumindong on 16/05/2008 08:25:49
Originally by: Sariyah

Actually he offered quite some but you keep ignoring them



He has offered only one that has been refuted many many many many times over. Inertia matters, and he does not seem to understand this, which is utterly surprising considering his claims of my inexperience.

Quote:

That might be valid for certain BC compared to certain cruiser but not all for sure. Also tanked ships can fit a repairer for example while a speed ship won't. Not to mention it is 2 different ship classes. A speed cruiser is faster than a speed BC, and a tanked BC > tanked cruiser. Seems fine to me.


That is because you have not read the thread or are willfully ignorant on what this means. Specifically it means that it never makes sense to fly a tanked version of a smaller ship except battleships vs carriers/dreads. Because the speed larger version will be better in every way than a tanked smaller version.

The rifter is the best frigate in the game, hands down and it is made near entirely obsolete when tanked by a stabber or rupture, or even the Maller. The maller being the worst cruiser in the game. A rifter with a 400mm plate will go 2600m/s with a 5.6s align and do 90 DPS at 1.2+7.5km and have some 5k hit points.

A Maller with 2 OD, 2 nano, 2 istab will go 2600m/s with a 4.8 second align and do 157 DPS to 20km with 8k hit points. It doesn't even preclude me from fitting a rep, i can run a MAR on the maller and drop an I-stab for a 5.9 second align

The only thing a rifter does is lock faster and you only need that to happen once in a fight.

Quote:

It is possible to counter a nano gang, and you'd be surprised how often a nano gang choses not to fight a force that's even in numbers but with heavier ships.


No it is not. It is possible to not die to a nano gang. And i would not be surprised when nano-gangs choose not to engage. It happens all the damn time, as it should. That is not the issue. The issue is that they pretty much can't die because unless you have nano-ships with you[and enough to not get killed as they chase] they can always run away.

Do you remember back in summer '06 when you would see plated frigates and inties that weren't bait for stupid people? Do you remember why that was? It was because there were advantages to going fast and there were advantages to tanking harder.

Now there are no advantages to tanking harder unless its a med slot tank because the modules that allow you to go fast are not properly stacked and/or too strong.

I am not saying speed tanking is bad. Hell, my suggestion makes speed tanking stronger. But nano-ships do not speed tank, they range tank, and then they disengage when that does not work. No one has any issues with their offensive capabilities and anyone claiming such is being disingenuous. There isn't much problem with how many hit points many of them have[especially the armor tanking ones]. What people have a problem with is their ability to avoid fights and start fights then leave.

Quote:

To me it seems that you are trying to manipulate the simple masses by coming up with arguments that are partially true, but as a whole, not really. A valid and efficient way of doing it. Lies that bear some parts of the truth are harder to identify.


And this one has no truth and so is quite easy to identify as a lie.


Sariyah
HUN Corp.
HUN Reloaded
Posted - 2008.05.16 13:34:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: Goumindong
The issue is that they pretty much can't die because unless you have nano-ships with you[and enough to not get killed as they chase] they can always run away.

Lie. It was said before countless times that they can be killed using counter measures. If they all stay they can all die, or maybe 1 or 2 dies and the rest runs.
Originally by: Goumindong
the speed larger version will be better in every way than a tanked smaller version.

You're stating the obvious then. Using same fit larger > smaller usually. Using incorrect fit/ship is just as bad. Try killing a Crow in a Taranis, it's hard and unlikely. You aren't saying no news here, repairers aren't the answer against speed. Everyone knows that. Neut/web are.
Quote:
[... EFT stuff ...]

Too many EFT numbers, didn't look at them carefully. Oh noes, a cruiser is generally better than a frig. Breaking news! Shocked
Originally by: Goumindong
No it is not. It is possible to not die to a nano gang. And i would not be surprised when nano-gangs choose not to engage. It happens all the damn time, as it should. That is not the issue. The issue is that they pretty much can't die because unless you have nano-ships with you[and enough to not get killed as they chase] they can always run away.

A webbed ship with no cap won't run far.
Tank on frigs was a necessity back then, now there's other priorities. Can you blame a game from changing? If we'd all do the same as in 2004 (or earlier) this game would be damn boring. Shocked
Originally by: Goumindong
Now there are no advantages to tanking harder unless its a med slot tank because the modules that allow you to go fast are not properly stacked and/or too strong.

Originally by: Goumindong
I am not saying speed tanking is bad. Hell, my suggestion makes speed tanking stronger. But nano-ships do not speed tank, they range tank, and then they disengage when that does not work.

Decide for once at least for the same post, so now is speed bad or not? You're contradicting yourself. You said speed is not the issue, range is. Let's turn this thread into a 'nerf long range ammo, sensor boosters and tracking computers' thread instead.

This thread is about speed tanking. And earlier you were complaining why a tanked ceptor is slower than a speed fit cruiser (apples and oranges?). So what ARE you after, except cheap votes?

The only constant in your posts is that you'd like to always kill your enemies. We'd like that, too! Truth is, the enemy won't always be in lesser numbers, with less agility so you can always catch and kill them, no matter how many posts you make here. Adapt and learn or you'll keep failing horribly.
Originally by: Goumindong
And this one has no truth and so is quite easy to identify as a lie.

At least I have shown you where your mistakes are. If you're as smart as you pretend to be, try to prove me wrong instead of using random contradictory arguments that have only one single common idea, that you would like to always win. I'm sure others want too and will vote you for it, doesn't make you a good CSM member, just a good politician and a lousy and selfish player who would like to change the rules of the game in the hope of getting an advantage. Guess what, you ain't getting it, not this way, no matter what nerfs you promote.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2008.05.16 14:25:00 - [114]
 

Originally by: Sariyah

Lie. It was said before countless times that they can be killed using counter measures. If they all stay they can all die, or maybe 1 or 2 dies and the rest runs.



Its been said. But its wrong.

Quote:

You're stating the obvious then. Using same fit larger > smaller usually. Using incorrect fit/ship is just as bad. Try killing a Crow in a Taranis, it's hard and unlikely. You aren't saying no news here, repairers aren't the answer against speed. Everyone knows that. Neut/web are.


Do you understand what you replied to?


Quote:

Too many EFT numbers, didn't look at them carefully. Oh noes, a cruiser is generally better than a frig. Breaking news!


I don't think you get it. The cruiser is not "generally better" the cruiser is a better frigate than the frigate. A battlecruiser is a better cruiser than the cruiser. And it only doesn't hold true when the smaller of the ship fits speed mods. That means there is one, unified and only fitting type for all small ships.

Quote:

A webbed ship with no cap won't run far.
Tank on frigs was a necessity back then, now there's other priorities. Can you blame a game from changing? If we'd all do the same as in 2004 (or earlier) this game would be damn boring


And how do you web them? You either need a nano ship, or you need an idiot.

Tank on a frig was not a necessity, it was an option. Now, if you tank a frigate you might as well be flying a cruiser.

Quote:

Decide for once at least for the same post, so now is speed bad or not? You're contradicting yourself. You said speed is not the issue, range is. Let's turn this thread into a 'nerf long range ammo, sensor boosters and tracking computers' thread instead.


1. There is no contradiction. The first quote says that speed mods are broken. The second says that speed tanking is not bad for the game.

2. No, because long range ammo isn't the problem the problem is the ability of the ships to disengage at a moments notice.


Quote:

This thread is about speed tanking. And earlier you were complaining why a tanked ceptor is slower than a speed fit cruiser (apples and oranges?). So what ARE you after, except cheap votes?



I am here to make the game better. If you think that different ships performing the same role is apples and oranges then you should re-asses the situation. People do not fly ships because they are the right size they fly ships because they do the job best. This is why no one flies assault frigates.

Quote:

The only constant in your posts is that you'd like to always kill your enemies. We'd like that, too! Truth is, the enemy won't always be in lesser numbers, with less agility so you can always catch and kill them, no matter how many posts you make here. Adapt and learn or you'll keep failing horribly.



This is simply not true. While it is true that the enemy won't always be in lesser numbers with less agility so you can always catch and kill them i am not asking them to be so. I am simply asking that ship classes have more clear boundaries in agility and that ships have fitting options. I expect to die when I make mistakes and I expect to die when someone outmaneuvers me. What i don't expect is for someone to survive if i out-maneuver them. Games need to have situations where another player can beat the other without the other player making a mistake.

When i play chess i do not expect to win every time. But i do expect that the other player cannot reset the board if he does not like the look of the situation that has unfolded.

Quote:
If you're as smart as you pretend to be, try to prove me wrong instead of using random contradictory arguments that have only one single common idea, that you would like to always win


I have not ever argued that i would always like to win. You are making an ad hominem argument. Not only do my motives have nothing to do with my argument, my motives are not to always win.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2008.05.16 14:27:00 - [115]
 

Quote:

At least I have shown you where your mistakes are.

I don't think you have. I think you have used a bunch of logical fallacies to attack me.

But i am quite open to hear where my logic is flawed. You just haven't presented any such situation and have instead attacked me instead of attacking the logic.

FellRaven
Minmatar
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2008.05.16 14:35:00 - [116]
 

Edited by: FellRaven on 16/05/2008 14:36:51
I haven't read all the replys so I my be repeating what another has said.

I don't think Nanoing it the problem, nanoing boost you speed at the expense of you resistance to damage. That is a fair trade off. The issue if there is one is when you add implants into the equation. Solution remove snake implants easy as that. Those with them keep them until they are podded nobody loses no nee to nerf specific races.

Dungar Loghoth
Caldari
Gank Bangers
Posted - 2008.05.16 14:51:00 - [117]
 

Originally by: FellRaven
Edited by: FellRaven on 16/05/2008 14:36:51
I haven't read all the replys so I my be repeating what another has said.

I don't think Nanoing it the problem, nanoing boost you speed at the expense of you resistance to damage. That is a fair trade off. The issue if there is one is when you add implants into the equation. Solution remove snake implants easy as that. Those with them keep them until they are podded nobody loses no nee to nerf specific races.


the vast, vast majority of nano pilots only have rogues, and most of them have 3% rogues. removing snakes entirely isn't going to fix anything.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2008.05.16 14:54:00 - [118]
 

Originally by: FellRaven
I haven't read all the replys so I my be repeating what another has said.

I don't think Nanoing it the problem, nanoing boost you speed at the expense of you resistance to damage. That is a fair trade off. The issue if there is one is when you add implants into the equation. Solution remove snake implants easy as that. Thos with them keep them until they are podded nobody loses no nee to nerf specific races.


No, there is even a problem with the modules/rigs themselves. Lets look at damage mods as an example.

Damage mods are worth about 23% damage before stacking penalties apiece. This is roughly the same with speed mods[20% on ODs, 16% or so on nanofibers]. With damage mods, this 23% is split into 10% damage and 10.5% rof for t2 mods. This means that if you add three of them you get roughly 67% extra DPS.

Now imagine if we had damage mods split up into rof mods and damage mods, each at 23% final DPS increase apiece? Well. If we did, and you used 3 damage mods you would have an 81.5% dps increase instead of a 67%. And if you used 4 damage mods you would have a 118% increase in DPS. And if you used 6 you would have a 178% increase.

Alright. So now imagine that when you added dmg and rof it also had secondary benefits. Speed mods not only makes you go faster and mass not only makes you go faster, but it also makes you more agile. It would be like not only getting more DPS by fitting damage mods, but also getting more hit points.

And to top this off. Speed and agility are a much stronger attribute due to combat in eve not being limited to even sized forces.

Sariyah
HUN Corp.
HUN Reloaded
Posted - 2008.05.16 15:46:00 - [119]
 

Edited by: Sariyah on 16/05/2008 15:50:59
Haha, remove snakes, made my day ^^
Remove t2 then, after all it's better than t1 and some evil people would buy it thus having an advantage ^^
Open trade and buy your own snake set, lol... trust me they will give you the same bonus...

Goon your logic is, plated / tanked ships should be faster than speed fitted ones and you claim that web and neuts can't stop speed fitted ships. I have died because of both so far. Then go and read the description of said items in game. What you saying is not arguments or logic but repeating the same nonsense.

Overally tanking is boring and you guys want to promote a boring gameplay instead of a fun one. One moment you want to remove speed fits the other you're saying that's not your intention. If nanos were not nerfed as you say then go fit a speed BS and try for yourself.
Tank is always better on bigger ships, speed is always better on smaller ships. Even if you find some really different and twisted fits just to prove it ain't (like plated frig against speed fit cruiser). You really want to make the best pimped cruisers with pilots who use implants (worth maybe close to a billion) slower than a plated taranis (what was it, 15m isk)? Lol. Weird sense of balance I must say!

If you can't afford a nano ship yourself then still, web and/or neut > nano ships. Use them. Nano problem solved.

By the way one could also argue that a damage fitted ship usually can't kill a tanked one, so I guess tanking is overpowered and MUST be NERFED into the ground asap. Dangerous ideas as I said and your intention is to ruin Eve as Goons have proven countless times so far. Enhance the game not kill it.
Quote:
Speed mods not only makes you go faster and mass not only makes you go faster, but it also makes you more agile.

Mass doesn't make you go faster. Lack of it does ONLY when MWDing and it doesn't modify base speed.
And overdrive makes you agile, yea? At least stop lying, I'm worried new players may believe you.

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.05.16 15:47:00 - [120]
 

Edited by: Jade Constantine on 16/05/2008 15:47:21

Originally by: Sariyah

This thread is about speed tanking. And earlier you were complaining why a tanked ceptor is slower than a speed fit cruiser (apples and oranges?). So what ARE you after, except cheap votes?


The real issue with this thread Sariyah is you can't sensibly-debate with a point of view that proudly asserts that a 400mm plate tanked frigate should be faster than a speed-fitted cruiser in all possible circumstances. You're grappling with an opinion that has nothing to do with Eve Online and is occupying some strange alternate space-game design philosophy. Its like arguing the difference between X-Wing physics and Star Fleet Battles, you are not ever going to get your/OUR/EVE' point of view across because its a discussion with a completely alien mindset and radically different standpoint on game balance aspiration.

Amusing that it is to watch the undulating swerves of this peculiar argument you eventually have to conclude that the Joshua AI from WarGames did have the right idea on dealing with this kind of thing: discussing nano-ship balance with some contributors to this thread is a "... A strange game. The only winning move is not to play."


Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only