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Dramaticus
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.05.07 18:03:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Aleus Stygian
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
If you want to go "hardcore" and allow stations to be destroyed why not go all the way?


Well, for instance because certain blueprints are just that rare and certain items just that hard to come by. That's a bit uncomfortable for me to say. So I'd rather say that it's because you can insure certain items in real life as well.

I would say that a method would be to have it possible to insure specific items, to let people cope at least some small part for the loss of truly expensive faction gear, to let those who think they can afford it have some measure of security, but to have no standard insurance revenue like there is with ships. It would still be possible to bugger someone by surprise station detonation, and you would still have to go to a good deal of effort or expense to obtain the lost items again.

Sounds good to me if we can blow up rare items. Make me able to destroy those outposts already! YARRRR!!


I want to blow up every outpost in Omist because man does that region suck.

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2008.05.07 18:05:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Dramaticus
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Aleus Stygian
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
If you want to go "hardcore" and allow stations to be destroyed why not go all the way?


Well, for instance because certain blueprints are just that rare and certain items just that hard to come by. That's a bit uncomfortable for me to say. So I'd rather say that it's because you can insure certain items in real life as well.

I would say that a method would be to have it possible to insure specific items, to let people cope at least some small part for the loss of truly expensive faction gear, to let those who think they can afford it have some measure of security, but to have no standard insurance revenue like there is with ships. It would still be possible to bugger someone by surprise station detonation, and you would still have to go to a good deal of effort or expense to obtain the lost items again.

Sounds good to me if we can blow up rare items. Make me able to destroy those outposts already! YARRRR!!


I want to blow up every outpost in Omist because man does that region suck.

I really can't disagree with you. Sad

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2008.05.07 23:01:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Darius JOHNSON

To be frank I'm open to hearing ideas about the subject and find it an intriguing possibility if properly instituted. As opposed to holding space I could fly around destroying it. v0v


Destroying stations would be good for us yea, but it would be bad for the game. Imagine trying to hold space as a small/new 0.0/pet alliance if you had to put up your own outpost and we didn't have to even defend it, we could just blow it up?

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.05.08 07:15:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Dramaticus
I want to blow up every outpost in Omist because man does that region suck.

It would suck even more if somebody blew up all the outposts.

Killer Kelly
Allied Tactical Unit
Brutally Organized Ruthless Gangsters
Posted - 2008.05.08 10:08:00 - [65]
 

This is like when Tim Russert was surprised that African-Americans vote for Obama.

welwyn
Posted - 2008.05.08 11:33:00 - [66]
 

now i dont profess to be a political whizz or anything of the sort, however, surely the idea of voting is to relay the publics opinion.

are we to say that goon cant be members of it because they have their members vote the same guy? or are we to extend that to say we cant vote for a guy with lots of people liking his ideas? its the same thing imho, the people with the more people behind them win. either by goons having a large alliance (they want the same thing or they wont be in goons would they?) or by a candidate having a large following by having good ideas for eve.

now dont take me wrong I am not in favour of goons winning anything at all however do not boycott them becuase they have a large playerbase. after all that is what the elections are about. giving the playerbase a voice in the game.

goodby4u
Valor Inc.
Valor Empire
Posted - 2008.05.08 14:22:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: welwyn
now i dont profess to be a political whizz or anything of the sort, however, surely the idea of voting is to relay the publics opinion.

are we to say that goon cant be members of it because they have their members vote the same guy? or are we to extend that to say we cant vote for a guy with lots of people liking his ideas? its the same thing imho, the people with the more people behind them win. either by goons having a large alliance (they want the same thing or they wont be in goons would they?) or by a candidate having a large following by having good ideas for eve.

now dont take me wrong I am not in favour of goons winning anything at all however do not boycott them becuase they have a large playerbase. after all that is what the elections are about. giving the playerbase a voice in the game.
No, lets say what this guy is talking about is true(which it probably is)it wont be the opinion of the individual, but the opinion of the candidates themselves as they force their members to vote for them or be banned from the allience.

Ofcourse this is under the condition that they are doing this...

Max Teranous
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2008.05.08 14:27:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: goodby4u
No, lets say what this guy is talking about is true(which it probably is)it wont be the opinion of the individual, but the opinion of the candidates themselves as they force their members to vote for them or be banned from the allience.

Ofcourse this is under the condition that they are doing this...


As there is no way for Darius or any other goon member from knowing who did or did not vote for them, there is no way any forcing could be done, nor threats carried out. It's a closed ballot, not an open one.

Max Cool

goodby4u
Valor Inc.
Valor Empire
Posted - 2008.05.08 14:31:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Max Teranous
Originally by: goodby4u
No, lets say what this guy is talking about is true(which it probably is)it wont be the opinion of the individual, but the opinion of the candidates themselves as they force their members to vote for them or be banned from the allience.

Ofcourse this is under the condition that they are doing this...


As there is no way for Darius or any other goon member from knowing who did or did not vote for them, there is no way any forcing could be done, nor threats carried out. It's a closed ballot, not an open one.

Max Cool
Yes but you must understand the pressure a community within an allience can put on their player base, and if this situation is the case I can see alot of people being yelled at if he only has 1500 votes, not 4000.

You dont need to know what the person voted for to know what the person voted for.

Swamp Ziro
Ultimate Betrayal.
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.08 14:39:00 - [70]
 

If darius doesn't get at least 3k votes he'll set SMASH blue true story

goodby4u
Valor Inc.
Valor Empire
Posted - 2008.05.08 14:41:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Swamp Ziro
If darius doesn't get at least 3k votes he'll set SMASH blue true story
!!!!!!Shocked

Darius JOHNSON
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.05.08 14:51:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: goodby4u
No, lets say what this guy is talking about is true(which it probably is)it wont be the opinion of the individual, but the opinion of the candidates themselves as they force their members to vote for them or be banned from the allience.

Ofcourse this is under the condition that they are doing this...


Haha man, if only. Goons do what they want, when they want and how they want. I merely serve in a position of providing guidance and dealing with the details of administration.

goodby4u
Valor Inc.
Valor Empire
Posted - 2008.05.08 14:56:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
Originally by: goodby4u
No, lets say what this guy is talking about is true(which it probably is)it wont be the opinion of the individual, but the opinion of the candidates themselves as they force their members to vote for them or be banned from the allience.

Ofcourse this is under the condition that they are doing this...


Haha man, if only. Goons do what they want, when they want and how they want. I merely serve in a position of providing guidance and dealing with the details of administration.
Im just saying, if you did want to organize your goons in such a manner as this guy is proclaiming then they wouldnt be voting for who they believe in unless they also like being booted from the allience.

And also, you shouldve said that all your goons hath backed you with their full firepower and the nonbelievers shall be smited, I mean you are one of the main antagonists of eve...ACT LIKE ONE!Very Happy

Darius JOHNSON
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.05.08 15:08:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: goodby4u
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
Originally by: goodby4u
No, lets say what this guy is talking about is true(which it probably is)it wont be the opinion of the individual, but the opinion of the candidates themselves as they force their members to vote for them or be banned from the allience.

Ofcourse this is under the condition that they are doing this...


Haha man, if only. Goons do what they want, when they want and how they want. I merely serve in a position of providing guidance and dealing with the details of administration.
Im just saying, if you did want to organize your goons in such a manner as this guy is proclaiming then they wouldnt be voting for who they believe in unless they also like being booted from the allience.

And also, you shouldve said that all your goons hath backed you with their full firepower and the nonbelievers shall be smited, I mean you are one of the main antagonists of eve...ACT LIKE ONE!Very Happy


I would have no way of knowing who they voted for in that instance which was already mentioned.

Antagonism has its place. I just don't think the CSM forum is it. I'll rattle people's cages elsewhere.

goodby4u
Valor Inc.
Valor Empire
Posted - 2008.05.08 15:22:00 - [75]
 

Edited by: goodby4u on 08/05/2008 15:22:53
Edited by: goodby4u on 08/05/2008 15:22:25
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
Originally by: goodby4u
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
Originally by: goodby4u
No, lets say what this guy is talking about is true(which it probably is)it wont be the opinion of the individual, but the opinion of the candidates themselves as they force their members to vote for them or be banned from the allience.

Ofcourse this is under the condition that they are doing this...

Haha man, if only. Goons do what they want, when they want and how they want. I merely serve in a position of providing guidance and dealing with the details of administration.
Im just saying, if you did want to organize your goons in such a manner as this guy is proclaiming then they wouldnt be voting for who they believe in unless they also like being booted from the allience.

And also, you shouldve said that all your goons hath backed you with their full firepower and the nonbelievers shall be smited, I mean you are one of the main antagonists of eve...ACT LIKE ONE!Very Happy


I would have no way of knowing who they voted for in that instance which was already mentioned.

Antagonism has its place. I just don't think the CSM forum is it. I'll rattle people's cages elsewhere.
Listen, ive been a leader before and have seen how easy it is to misdirect the masses, and if you can get the uninformed believing you they would probably slowly convert the informed.

I thought since your a leader you would know how to do this better then me by nowVery Happy.

Darius JOHNSON
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.05.08 15:36:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: goodby4u
Listen, ive been a leader before and have seen how easy it is to misdirect the masses, and if you can get the uninformed believing you they would probably slowly convert the informed.

I thought since your a leader you would know how to do this better then me by nowVery Happy.


I've always thought honesty was the best policy. There's all different ways to be an effective leader.

goodby4u
Valor Inc.
Valor Empire
Posted - 2008.05.08 16:04:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
Originally by: goodby4u
Listen, ive been a leader before and have seen how easy it is to misdirect the masses, and if you can get the uninformed believing you they would probably slowly convert the informed.

I thought since your a leader you would know how to do this better then me by nowVery Happy.


I've always thought honesty was the best policy. There's all different ways to be an effective leader.
I know, I used the same method...However I was pointing out the possibility of doing so.

Compound Interest
Posted - 2008.05.08 16:07:00 - [78]
 

Goon bashing time.

Darius JOHNSON
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.05.08 16:13:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Compound Interest
Goon bashing time.


Please Hammer don't hurt em

Divad Ginleek
Gallente
New Eden Logistics and Trade.
Posted - 2008.05.08 18:15:00 - [80]
 

I'm sort of surprised theres not a one candidate per alliance rule. Seems the best way to avoid any one group of players (a minority) from forcing their will on the playerbase at large (the majority).

But we all know the CSM is just a vacation in Iceland. The devs will rub their chin, say "interesting ideas", then go back to what ever they were planning before the CSM showed up. Its a game company with a producer and other people in charge of ideas. Not a government body in need of input from the 'people'. So why make such a big deal about it?

Alexander Knott
ElitistOps
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.05.08 18:50:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
Originally by: goodby4u
Listen, ive been a leader before and have seen how easy it is to misdirect the masses, and if you can get the uninformed believing you they would probably slowly convert the informed.

I thought since your a leader you would know how to do this better then me by nowVery Happy.


I've always thought honesty was the best policy. There's all different ways to be an effective leader.

Might also mention that we had a primary and that Darius and Bane were the names that shook out of that. It's really more akin to EVE's first political party than election rigging.

Darius JOHNSON
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.05.08 19:04:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Divad Ginleek
I'm sort of surprised theres not a one candidate per alliance rule. Seems the best way to avoid any one group of players (a minority) from forcing their will on the playerbase at large (the majority).

But we all know the CSM is just a vacation in Iceland. The devs will rub their chin, say "interesting ideas", then go back to what ever they were planning before the CSM showed up. Its a game company with a producer and other people in charge of ideas. Not a government body in need of input from the 'people'. So why make such a big deal about it?


The votes are a majority rule. No alliance in the game is anywhere near a majority. If BRUCE had 8 people elected it would be because the majority spoke and decided that's the way it should be, therefore it would be their will represented.

Regarding the usefulness of the CSM. It may very well be that the devs want external opinions to help curb groupthink. It could also just be a pr thing to keep people engaged. You're more likely to continue buying into something you have a stake in.

Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam
Posted - 2008.05.08 19:46:00 - [83]
 

hardly suprising. Many of the major CSM candidates are being backed by similar blocs - who would likely try similar things if they had the kind of numbers Goons do.

Dirty? sure, but perfectly legit.

Darius JOHNSON
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.05.08 19:53:00 - [84]
 

Edited by: Darius JOHNSON on 08/05/2008 19:53:32
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
hardly suprising. Many of the major CSM candidates are being backed by similar blocs - who would likely try similar things if they had the kind of numbers Goons do.

Dirty? sure, but perfectly legit.



I'm afraid I don't find it dirty... it's politics. That's democracy.

If anyone is able to compel a large group of people to vote for them then that is by very definition a successful campaign. Simply because some of us have an existing support network already built that doesn't make it dirty. Should we apologize for being successful community organizers?

I also think you'll find that many more than Goons will have cast their votes in this election.

Sosus Red
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.05.08 20:13:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: Tom Harry
Edited by: Tom Harry on 07/05/2008 12:43:58
Originally by: Teclis van'Dreike

Please, entertain us. What do you think a Goon could do during that meeting at CCP. Go with the worst case scenario you can come up with.
Worst case?

There's four goons running, right? Alright, lets see then, brainfarting time.

Worst case: The four goons wait around at the arrival gate at the airport in Icelandicland. They identify and kidnap the five other CSM under the false pretense of recruiting them for a 9 seat taxi.

They take the five kidnappees out into the Icelandi wilderness, bury them in the sand dunes with only their heads poking up and a pair of chineese eating sticks to dig their way out.

The goons then proceed to the CCP building where one defecates outside in the lovely green hedge. Alerted by the strange smell from their garden, the devs come out to greet the CSM and learn that only four "had time" to come.

Some greetings later they find themselves in the CCP briefing room where the unsuspecting devs go through their latest plans point by point. Little do they know of the danger at hand.

The goons sit and wait.
Downtime comes and the servers go offline.
The goons strike.

An hour later the devs are missing, the Eve Server Cluster thoroughly humped by a local dog that slipped in while none was watching and the actual game itself is rewired granting Goons Jove ships and a penetration-proof Deathstar called Ted.


Thats is actually funny

Learyth
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.05.09 00:59:00 - [86]
 

I for one did not vote for any goon. Reasons being. As they have all pretty stated. Goons do as Goons want. When they want. How they want. Etc. The consequence of those actions is deemed "Fun" by goons. This is certainly True. But was it "Fun" for the person sitting in Emp that just got suicide ganked? Can you honestly tell me that? Probably not. They have this attitude. Hence if or when a Goon sits on the CSM. They will support solely a Goon's "Fun". Not fun for the majority of the rest of us. That is why I would not vote for a single goon. The more goons that run tho. The better for us. As they are probably just diluting their own voting bloc. This is just my opinion.


Alexi Kalashnikov
Posted - 2008.05.09 08:21:00 - [87]
 

Edited by: Alexi Kalashnikov on 09/05/2008 08:22:53
!!!NEWS!!!

Parties with similiar ideologies voting in an organized matter is VOTE RIGGING!!!!!!!!!!!

/!!!NEWS!!!

Why goons?
This game was, and still is, pretty broken before we came: and putting pubbies into the CSM can only make it worse.

Darius JOHNSON
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.05.09 14:13:00 - [88]
 

Edited by: Darius JOHNSON on 09/05/2008 14:15:39
Originally by: Learyth
I for one did not vote for any goon. Reasons being. As they have all pretty stated. Goons do as Goons want. When they want. How they want. Etc. The consequence of those actions is deemed "Fun" by goons. This is certainly True. But was it "Fun" for the person sitting in Emp that just got suicide ganked? Can you honestly tell me that? Probably not. They have this attitude. Hence if or when a Goon sits on the CSM. They will support solely a Goon's "Fun". Not fun for the majority of the rest of us. That is why I would not vote for a single goon. The more goons that run tho. The better for us. As they are probably just diluting their own voting bloc. This is just my opinion.




Breaking news:

Goons want to have fun playing a videogame!

Goons rig election!

Goons won't win because they are diluting their voting bloc!

The rather definitive statements from people uninvolved about who we are, what we stand for and what our intentions are are made all the more hilarious by the continuing doublespeak.

In a videogame where you shoot other people, the people getting shot aren't always going to enjoy dying. I don't enjoy dying either. But I do it. A lot. I still log in and it's part of the game. So now goons are awful because we play the game.

I know what would make you happy. Perhaps Goons should play Eve only for the benefit of Caldari Provisions. Maybe we should just not have enemies and be friendly with everyone that would sure make for a fun game boy howdy!

Really these arguments are becoming more and more silly. The paranoid insinuations that somehow a goon CSM rep would instantly run out and convince the devs that there should be no more mining and no more fun for anyone except goons is equally silly. Reality is that way ---->

Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
Posted - 2008.05.09 14:24:00 - [89]
 

At least now we know who the goon sleeper in Styx is.

Cailais
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2008.05.09 16:09:00 - [90]
 

I cant see any problem with the OPs 'revelation' that Goonswarm are intent on focusing their considerable voting power to ensure a Pro-Goon candidate on the CSM: its entirely predictable and indeed strategicaly common sense both for Goonswarm and indeed any other Alliance.

It is in the interest of any 'power bloc' in EVE (be that a formal Alliance or playstyle) to ensure they are represented on the CSM so that they have at least the opportunity to sway CCP to supporting their own agenda or to oppose the efforts of others to do the same.

Goonswarm / SA are simply better organised, and more readily identifiable by the player base. As to their intentions its impossible to judge. If you view the GS/GF address from Fanfest you'll find them funny, self depricating and an enthusiastic bunch - look elsewhere and you'll find them hell bent on destroying EVE (or indeed any other MMO).

Where does the truth fall? Probably somewhere in the middle. Are there elements with the SA community and GS who want to see CCP and EVE fail? Almost certainly. But then thats true elsewhere in EVEs community amongst other disaffected players not associated with GS/SA.

Its worth noting the GS is a element of an already exisiting community - its simply one thats manifested on the internet rather than by national or cultural bounds. In my view its far better that CCP open a dialog with GS/GF than leave them out in the cold - keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer as they say...

C.



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