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Lisento Slaven
The Drekla Consortium
Posted - 2008.05.07 13:37:00 - [31]
 

I don't see how this is rigging the election. All they're doing is asking/telling people in their own organization to vote for them. They were probably already going to do that anyways no?

Swamp Ziro
Ultimate Betrayal.
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.07 13:42:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine

Defensive much Swamp Ziro? Very Happy

Go have a nice cup of tea and chill out. We're all Eve gamers here and want the best for the game - no need for damage control, I just pointed out your leader isn't really "rigging" anything, just hoping to win the benefits of a drone voting block in an environment of potential voter apathy.



Nah I just can't resist taking a jab at you, I've been doing that since before I even was in goonfleet :V

Spoon Thumb
Khanid Provincial Vanguard
Vanguard Imperium
Posted - 2008.05.07 13:48:00 - [33]
 


Well seems silly as well since I'd say Goumindong for me has more of the popular appeal as well as some pretty sound policies (he was my 2nd or 3rd choice candidate).

Is funny that in Eve as well as IRL, parties will vote for the one the party likes, but not necessarily the one that will win the election by appealing to a broader base

Sworn Absent
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.05.07 14:03:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine

Defensive much Swamp Ziro? Very Happy

Go have a nice cup of tea and chill out. We're all Eve gamers here and want the best for the game - no need for damage control, I just pointed out your leader isn't really "rigging" anything, just hoping to win the benefits of a drone voting block in an environment of potential voter apathy.



He does raise a good point. Just about everything you say/post is unnecessarily long winded for quiet a simple and straight forward point.

Mr Rive
Black Omega Security
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.05.07 14:04:00 - [35]
 

Darius and his associates wouldnt go to this much trouble to grief a bunch of pubbies. there are much easier and hilarious ways to do so without having to spend hours of time on a campaign.

Darius takes this as seriously as any of the other candidates, and people shouldn't let bitter people put them off voting for a worthy candidate.

(Yes im a goon alt because no one would seriously believe that someone out of goonswarm would believe this)

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.05.07 14:20:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Sworn Absent
Originally by: Jade Constantine

Defensive much Swamp Ziro? Very Happy

Go have a nice cup of tea and chill out. We're all Eve gamers here and want the best for the game - no need for damage control, I just pointed out your leader isn't really "rigging" anything, just hoping to win the benefits of a drone voting block in an environment of potential voter apathy.



He does raise a good point. Just about everything you say/post is unnecessarily long winded for quiet a simple and straight forward point.


I'd say its an "opinion" rather than a "good point" obviously, but its all part of the joy of a free election really. Ultimately I'm standing on who I am not who the Goons would like me to be, and my use of language is part of that. If you can get on board with that fine! If not then I guess its back to the three line whip and vote as your leader commands Very Happy

Aleus Stygian
Posted - 2008.05.07 14:34:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Sworn Absent
Originally by: Jade Constantine

Defensive much Swamp Ziro? Very Happy

Go have a nice cup of tea and chill out. We're all Eve gamers here and want the best for the game - no need for damage control, I just pointed out your leader isn't really "rigging" anything, just hoping to win the benefits of a drone voting block in an environment of potential voter apathy.



He does raise a good point. Just about everything you say/post is unnecessarily long winded for quiet a simple and straight forward point.


As far as I've discerned, what Jade says just happens to have quite a bit of substance as well. You will also find that those candidates who did not post their manifesto on this forum managed to comment quite a lot on their own websites, in general.

On the topic though, I would say that what 'Darius' is doing is fair, so long as the Goons don't go out of their way to buy one-time accounts and spamming the ballots...

Personally, I would like to say that Darius himself sounds rather intelligent and reasonable, but also inevitably affected by his position as the figurehead of the largest and probably most detrimental power bloc in all of EVE, one that also shamelessly endorses feature exploitation and game domination, rather than just monetary gain or power acquisition. The organization in Goon that you speak of, which I am hesitant to even consider as true, is more likely a result of destructive joy and schadenfreude rather than a love of the game as well.

I could be wrong, but I don't think that Darius has addressed the issue of destructible POSes either, which to me appears as avoidance of the issue due to his and his organization's interest to simply hold as much territory as possible, for self-evident reasons.

All in all, I must say that I could never vote for a GoonSwarm member or director. And this for two reasons; morals, and a desire for progress and the bettering of the gameplay for everyone. The same reasons that would have me voting for Jade.

Zareph
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.05.07 14:47:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: The Kan
Here's proof

CCP, why do you allow this to happen?


Wasn't this posted yesterday under a different character predicting the same doom and gloom?

Rolling Eyes

I just don't get the hate, especially from corps I've never seen the name of anywhere near 0.0. I don't see how Goonfleet 'ruins the game' by driving people to play it. I started playing in October and i wouldn't be here - with 4 active accounts - if it wasn't for playing in goonfleet. Prior to joinging I tried this game in 2005 and 2006 and was bored to death and quit playing.

It's downright amazing how much mythos surrounds a bunch of people who are just playing to have fun.

Swamp Ziro
Ultimate Betrayal.
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.07 14:50:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine
I guess its back to the three line whip and vote as your leader commands Very Happy



That's as true as saying that you can sometimes be concise and to the point.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.05.07 15:03:00 - [40]
 

Unless they plan to HACK/SCAM/whatever other people's accounts' passwords and vote INSTEAD of them for a GS candidate, I don't see how could you possible regard "this" as a "rigging" of the election.
How the hell can you "rig" the election in a game where scamming, trickery and financial power are the cornerstones of gameplay ?!?
I mean, without resorting to something that's illegal in RL.

Rolling Eyes

goodby4u
Valor Inc.
Valor Empire
Posted - 2008.05.07 15:16:00 - [41]
 

I knew they were going to try and rig it a long time ago...How? Well for a while goonswarm adopted the personification of a james bond villain(stupid like jaws, but about the size of nicknack)and the reason this is is they love to be hated.

So dont get all up in arms, just because they have 5000 people voting for their candidate(probably not even all 5000)youll have the other 195,000 people voting everybody else.

Now if they"hack"the vote I would personally start threads and ***** and moan until none of them could run...But thats just me.

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2008.05.07 15:19:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: goodby4u
youll have the other 195,000 people voting everybody else.

I would be surprised if we have much more than 22,000 votes overall.

goodby4u
Valor Inc.
Valor Empire
Posted - 2008.05.07 15:22:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: goodby4u
youll have the other 195,000 people voting everybody else.

I would be surprised if we have much more than 22,000 votes overall.
Well seeing as how they have a link on even the login screen im guessing its going to be a larger number then 22,000.

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.05.07 15:24:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: goodby4u
youll have the other 195,000 people voting everybody else.

I would be surprised if we have much more than 22,000 votes overall.


Well LaVista, lets get that number up +1 vote at a time. Ultimately voter apathy is the biggest enemy any of us have outside the blockvote three line whips of the big alliances. Bring the electorate out to vote and we'll get the support to counter the big beasts out there.

Cribb
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2008.05.07 15:28:00 - [45]
 

Well this took long.
Although i'm no goon fan, this is to be expected since they have the biggest member base and tend to stick together. It will be a strange thing if ther was none or only one goon candidate on the csm :)

The Kan
Gallente
The Circle
SOLAR WING
Posted - 2008.05.07 15:37:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: The Kan on 07/05/2008 15:37:45
Originally by: Zareph

Wasn't this posted yesterday under a different character predicting the same doom and gloom?

Rolling Eyes

I just don't get the hate, especially from corps I've never seen the name of anywhere near 0.0. I don't see how Goonfleet 'ruins the game' by driving people to play it. I started playing in October and i wouldn't be here - with 4 active accounts - if it wasn't for playing in goonfleet. Prior to joinging I tried this game in 2005 and 2006 and was bored to death and quit playing.

It's downright amazing how much mythos surrounds a bunch of people who are just playing to have fun.



Well if you search your killboard you will see me having recorded losses and kills since .. ever.
Some kills i made to goonsward are not posted tho, but that's typical.
You can confirm on bob killboard too.

And it's not hate. it's pure and plain truth.
I dont read about it, i dont ear about it, i saw it with my eyes, i lived it. i know exacly what i am talking about.

And if you did not said those nice warm yummy words about you ally, you would be on jita by now, scamming people for money.

Darius JOHNSON
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.05.07 15:37:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Aleus Stygian
Originally by: Sworn Absent
Originally by: Jade Constantine

Defensive much Swamp Ziro? Very Happy

Go have a nice cup of tea and chill out. We're all Eve gamers here and want the best for the game - no need for damage control, I just pointed out your leader isn't really "rigging" anything, just hoping to win the benefits of a drone voting block in an environment of potential voter apathy.



He does raise a good point. Just about everything you say/post is unnecessarily long winded for quiet a simple and straight forward point.


As far as I've discerned, what Jade says just happens to have quite a bit of substance as well. You will also find that those candidates who did not post their manifesto on this forum managed to comment quite a lot on their own websites, in general.

On the topic though, I would say that what 'Darius' is doing is fair, so long as the Goons don't go out of their way to buy one-time accounts and spamming the ballots...

Personally, I would like to say that Darius himself sounds rather intelligent and reasonable, but also inevitably affected by his position as the figurehead of the largest and probably most detrimental power bloc in all of EVE, one that also shamelessly endorses feature exploitation and game domination, rather than just monetary gain or power acquisition. The organization in Goon that you speak of, which I am hesitant to even consider as true, is more likely a result of destructive joy and schadenfreude rather than a love of the game as well.

I could be wrong, but I don't think that Darius has addressed the issue of destructible POSes either, which to me appears as avoidance of the issue due to his and his organization's interest to simply hold as much territory as possible, for self-evident reasons.

All in all, I must say that I could never vote for a GoonSwarm member or director. And this for two reasons; morals, and a desire for progress and the bettering of the gameplay for everyone. The same reasons that would have me voting for Jade.


All pos's are destuctible...

But I believe you're alluding to stations. You're seriously insinuating that I'm dodging an issue I haven't been asked about because it just happens to be Jade's pet issue?

To be frank I'm open to hearing ideas about the subject and find it an intriguing possibility if properly instituted. As opposed to holding space I could fly around destroying it. v0v

I think you'll find I'm much better at answering questions when asked, and the results tend to be different when they come from me rather than being attributed to me.

Aleus Stygian
Posted - 2008.05.07 15:38:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Cribb
Well this took long.
Although i'm no goon fan, this is to be expected since they have the biggest member base and tend to stick together. It will be a strange thing if ther was none or only one goon candidate on the csm :)


That is hardly the issue. The problem that people have is with their policy. Hell, I might have considered voting for a Goon, if you didn't know that they would just have to bring Goon values into the equation...

Also, the fact that you happen to have four simultaneous accounts does not give you 'more right' to play this game. Rather, I would consider it eerie and suspicious, and possibly a cheap way to get more votes.

Darius JOHNSON
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.05.07 15:39:00 - [49]
 

I'll also note that I've addressed the topic of "rigging" three times in my thread. Until I have access to CCP's code I can't "rig" anything. It was an off color joke, but given the level of humor, intelligence and maturity of some of the posters this election cycle I'm not surprised to have seen it taken out of context.

Darius JOHNSON
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.05.07 15:41:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Aleus Stygian
Originally by: Cribb
Well this took long.
Although i'm no goon fan, this is to be expected since they have the biggest member base and tend to stick together. It will be a strange thing if ther was none or only one goon candidate on the csm :)


That is hardly the issue. The problem that people have is with their policy. Hell, I might have considered voting for a Goon, if you didn't know that they would just have to bring Goon values into the equation...

Also, the fact that you happen to have four simultaneous accounts does not give you 'more right' to play this game. Rather, I would consider it eerie and suspicious, and possibly a cheap way to get more votes.


Define "goon values" and point out please the section of my thread where I encourage people to purchase accounts simply to alter the outcome of the vote, which wouldn't work because they'd have to be more than 30 days old and account transfer is illegal.

I'd love to say we can plan that far into the future but we can't.

Darius JOHNSON
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.05.07 15:44:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: The Kan
Edited by: The Kan on 07/05/2008 15:37:45
Originally by: Zareph

Wasn't this posted yesterday under a different character predicting the same doom and gloom?

Rolling Eyes

I just don't get the hate, especially from corps I've never seen the name of anywhere near 0.0. I don't see how Goonfleet 'ruins the game' by driving people to play it. I started playing in October and i wouldn't be here - with 4 active accounts - if it wasn't for playing in goonfleet. Prior to joinging I tried this game in 2005 and 2006 and was bored to death and quit playing.

It's downright amazing how much mythos surrounds a bunch of people who are just playing to have fun.



Well if you search your killboard you will see me having recorded losses and kills since .. ever.
Some kills i made to goonsward are not posted tho, but that's typical.
You can confirm on bob killboard too.

And it's not hate. it's pure and plain truth.
I dont read about it, i dont ear about it, i saw it with my eyes, i lived it. i know exacly what i am talking about.

And if you did not said those nice warm yummy words about you ally, you would be on jita by now, scamming people for money.



You hate us without basis... you've rarely killed or died to us though you claim to have been engaged in multiple campaigns against us and membership in alliances we've historically fought. You offer not one shred of anything other than your words condemning us as liars. There is no basis to your slanderous broken statements whatsoever and you're really beginning to look foolish.

Aleus Stygian
Posted - 2008.05.07 15:49:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Aleus Stygian on 07/05/2008 15:51:00
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
All pos's are destuctible...

But I believe you're alluding to stations. You're seriously insinuating that I'm dodging an issue I haven't been asked about because it just happens to be Jade's pet issue?

To be frank I'm open to hearing ideas about the subject and find it an intriguing possibility if properly instituted. As opposed to holding space I could fly around destroying it. v0v

I think you'll find I'm much better at answering questions when asked, and the results tend to be different when they come from me rather than being attributed to me.


Right. I am sorry, and I will take that into account next time.

The destructibility of stations might be some of a 'pet issue' to Jade in particular, but I think it seems that what he desires more is making 'guerilla' warfare among corporations more viable, hence his attention to the issue of Cynosural Jammers as well.

Now that I have your attention though; How would you solve the issue of items lost in the destruction of stations? Obviously, ships can be insured, but I personally would like to see some additions to the insurance system regarding that. Whatever people may say, insurance in general seems to work perfectly to me. You are not supposed to be entirely covered in a game like this... but neither should you have to lose everything because you did not have the time to move your assets away from a station that was attacked while you were otherwise occupied.

TeddyBr FTW
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.05.07 17:16:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Tom Harry
An hour later the devs are missing, the Eve Server Cluster thoroughly humped by a local dog that slipped in while none was watching and the actual game itself is rewired granting Goons Jove ships and a penetration-proof Deathstar called Ted.
I like the "Ted" part. Very Happy

Darius JOHNSON
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.05.07 17:20:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: TeddyBr FTW
Originally by: Tom Harry
An hour later the devs are missing, the Eve Server Cluster thoroughly humped by a local dog that slipped in while none was watching and the actual game itself is rewired granting Goons Jove ships and a penetration-proof Deathstar called Ted.
I like the "Ted" part. Very Happy


If only you got the joke.

Darius JOHNSON
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.05.07 17:23:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Aleus Stygian
Edited by: Aleus Stygian on 07/05/2008 15:51:00
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
All pos's are destuctible...

But I believe you're alluding to stations. You're seriously insinuating that I'm dodging an issue I haven't been asked about because it just happens to be Jade's pet issue?

To be frank I'm open to hearing ideas about the subject and find it an intriguing possibility if properly instituted. As opposed to holding space I could fly around destroying it. v0v

I think you'll find I'm much better at answering questions when asked, and the results tend to be different when they come from me rather than being attributed to me.


Right. I am sorry, and I will take that into account next time.

The destructibility of stations might be some of a 'pet issue' to Jade in particular, but I think it seems that what he desires more is making 'guerilla' warfare among corporations more viable, hence his attention to the issue of Cynosural Jammers as well.

Now that I have your attention though; How would you solve the issue of items lost in the destruction of stations? Obviously, ships can be insured, but I personally would like to see some additions to the insurance system regarding that. Whatever people may say, insurance in general seems to work perfectly to me. You are not supposed to be entirely covered in a game like this... but neither should you have to lose everything because you did not have the time to move your assets away from a station that was attacked while you were otherwise occupied.



I'm going to preface this by stating that I haven't devoted much thought to it. I don't have a pre existing agenda really going into the CSM and I question why anyone would really. There's a forum for after the elections to push your agendas. Instead we end up with a bunch of people voting for the wrong reasons entirely very few of whom really have an understanding of how the CSM process will work, and that includes candidates.

From my gut... items lost are items lost. To the victor go the spoils. It could function similar to when a ship is destroyed where some items are destroyed (generating an insurance payout possible) and others dropped as loot.

If you want to go "hardcore" and allow stations to be destroyed why not go all the way?

Franco Caruso
Posted - 2008.05.07 17:33:00 - [56]
 

I do not really care about them rigging the election.

But, IIRC ... goonfleet ( or where they originate from ) has a motto that goes like "take over a game and ruin it for everybody else" or along those lines.

THAT is what worries me. If we, the players, empower them to do so ( or at least put them in a seat that *could* eventually count something ).

They can sound as cool, realistic and game-related with their election proposals ( or whatever you call them ) as they want. Bear in mind what they are really on about.


Aleus Stygian
Posted - 2008.05.07 17:34:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
If you want to go "hardcore" and allow stations to be destroyed why not go all the way?


Well, for instance because certain blueprints are just that rare and certain items just that hard to come by. That's a bit uncomfortable for me to say. So I'd rather say that it's because you can insure certain items in real life as well.

I would say that a method would be to have it possible to insure specific items, to let people cope at least some small part for the loss of truly expensive faction gear, to let those who think they can afford it have some measure of security, but to have no standard insurance revenue like there is with ships. It would still be possible to bugger someone by surprise station detonation, and you would still have to go to a good deal of effort or expense to obtain the lost items again.

Darius JOHNSON
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.05.07 17:43:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Franco Caruso
I do not really care about them rigging the election.

But, IIRC ... goonfleet ( or where they originate from ) has a motto that goes like "take over a game and ruin it for everybody else" or along those lines.

THAT is what worries me. If we, the players, empower them to do so ( or at least put them in a seat that *could* eventually count something ).

They can sound as cool, realistic and game-related with their election proposals ( or whatever you call them ) as they want. Bear in mind what they are really on about.




To correct this point people seem to keep wanting to state as if it were a fact... we don't have a motto. We don't work for CCP and certainly can't ruin Eve.

I'm in charge. I should know. Alts don't run goonfleet. The ONLY person who can say what our Mission Statement, Motto or manifestos are is myself and we don't have any.

Darius JOHNSON
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.05.07 17:57:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Aleus Stygian
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
If you want to go "hardcore" and allow stations to be destroyed why not go all the way?


Well, for instance because certain blueprints are just that rare and certain items just that hard to come by. That's a bit uncomfortable for me to say. So I'd rather say that it's because you can insure certain items in real life as well.

I would say that a method would be to have it possible to insure specific items, to let people cope at least some small part for the loss of truly expensive faction gear, to let those who think they can afford it have some measure of security, but to have no standard insurance revenue like there is with ships. It would still be possible to bugger someone by surprise station detonation, and you would still have to go to a good deal of effort or expense to obtain the lost items again.


There is an alternate argument which would say if you don't want to lose your items don't keep them in space you can't secure. I'd also assume some system, similar to pos's but perhaps a longer timer, which would prevent a "surprise buggering" if you were adequately prepared. I'm pretty well open to suggestion in any of it in any case.

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2008.05.07 18:01:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Aleus Stygian
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
If you want to go "hardcore" and allow stations to be destroyed why not go all the way?


Well, for instance because certain blueprints are just that rare and certain items just that hard to come by. That's a bit uncomfortable for me to say. So I'd rather say that it's because you can insure certain items in real life as well.

I would say that a method would be to have it possible to insure specific items, to let people cope at least some small part for the loss of truly expensive faction gear, to let those who think they can afford it have some measure of security, but to have no standard insurance revenue like there is with ships. It would still be possible to bugger someone by surprise station detonation, and you would still have to go to a good deal of effort or expense to obtain the lost items again.

Sounds good to me if we can blow up rare items. Make me able to destroy those outposts already! YARRRR!!


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