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blankseplocked Allow cap ships in high sec! Hear me out....
 
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Ulfgar Rumnarn
Posted - 2008.05.02 14:45:00 - [1]
 

I think that war decs would be enhanced by allowing cap ships to be cynoed into high sec. This would allow high sec POSes to actually be taken out (have you tried to take out a POS with just BSes? ICK!) on war targets and also use cap ships in high sec wars.

In order to have no one "tank CONCORD" make a new CONCORD dread that locks a dread or Carrier down and pops with pretty quick once it arrives. CONCORD has very powerful ships why can't they have a cap ship too?

Anyone have any input on this idea? (please be constructive whether you agree or not. But saying "it sucks" helps no one)

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.05.02 14:47:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Malcanis on 02/05/2008 14:48:01
You can take out POS using just BS. it takes a while, but on the other hand, AFAIK, hi-sec POS can't have their weapons aimed by POS gunners, unlike POS in cyno-jammed systems in 0.0.

How many BS are you thinking of? 40 or 50 or so can get the job done in a couple of hours, depending on how the POS is fitted.

DDemon
Volatile Instability
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
Posted - 2008.05.02 14:48:00 - [3]
 

Concord is already untankable in a cap ship,
I tried to do so on the test server and they set drone bandwidth to 0 resulting in loss of drones/fighters.
They also reduce your cap to 0 so even a dread in siege dies in a few seconds.

I kinda like this idea but I don't think ccp will allow this.

Amastat
Caldari
Blue Ring Defence
Posted - 2008.05.02 14:49:00 - [4]
 

I may be wrong - but it is possible to have capitals in high-sec, isn't it? You just have them built in a high-sec system I think? Only issue is that once you jump out you can't get back into high-sec since cynosural fields cannot be opened in high-sec.

I had thought you can build capitals (but not super-capitals) in a station in high-sec - however no one does that since you can't jump it back in, if you plan to have it stay there you have to never jump it out.

Lance Fighter
Amarr
Posted - 2008.05.02 14:49:00 - [5]
 

Not allowing capships into highsec is a remnant of the days when CONCORD did not steal all your cap and ecm you to death. As well, they used to not warp-scram/web you...

There used to be a time when, if you had a large enough ship (a dread or carrier gang), you could indeed tank concord indefinitely. (this was also when you could build carriers/dreads in highsec iirc). Now, the problem was that a carrier or dread could easily gank something, then tank out concord long enough to dock. Now, CONCORD steals all of your cap, and you cant target anything.

So Yes, I agree. capships need to have limited ability to cyno in highsec... 0.7 is the highest you can put a pos up, right? No cynos above 0.7 space.

Also gives mommies and titans somewhere to be without fear or getting popped...

Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.05.02 14:53:00 - [6]
 

Hmmm. Some thoughts on possible mechanics:

Time-restricted capital jump clearances. Part of faction warfare.

Allows you to purchase time to jump into friendly faction territory at specific faction-controlled jump POS's. Like a Gallente Navy Jump Beacon or something. Once in, you're allowed to execute jumps within that faction's territory to specific grids only (no stations or gates, just moons for instance).

Once the clearance elapses if the pilot in question is not out of that faction's territory, the faction navy in question will wtfpwn it.

RigelKentaurus
Flying Tartiflette
Caldari Deep Space Industral
Posted - 2008.05.02 14:55:00 - [7]
 

Hmm, what would it take to suicide gank a macro-rorqual?

Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.05.02 14:58:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: RigelKentaurus
Hmm, what would it take to suicide gank a macro-rorqual?

An anti-macro-rorqual rorqual.

Gridwalker
Amarr
Divine Power.
KIA Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.02 15:00:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Amastat
I may be wrong - but it is possible to have capitals in high-sec, isn't it? You just have them built in a high-sec system I think? Only issue is that once you jump out you can't get back into high-sec since cynosural fields cannot be opened in high-sec.


It is not possible to build cap ships in hi sec, except freighters and jump freighters. This is because you can only build them in a Capital Ship Assembly Array, which can only be anchored in a 0.0 system where your alliance has sovereignty.

At one point, you could build cap ships in NPC stations in hi sec, but this capability was removed.

As far as what the OP states, I'm personally wouldn't want to form an opinion on this until we see what faction warfare brings.

-Grid

Bronson Hughes
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering
Posted - 2008.05.02 15:02:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Amastat
I may be wrong - but it is possible to have capitals in high-sec, isn't it? You just have them built in a high-sec system I think? Only issue is that once you jump out you can't get back into high-sec since cynosural fields cannot be opened in high-sec.

I had thought you can build capitals (but not super-capitals) in a station in high-sec - however no one does that since you can't jump it back in, if you plan to have it stay there you have to never jump it out.


You cannot build capital ships in NPC stations, you need to use a Large Ship Assembly Array anchored at a POS. You cannot anchor these in HiSec anymore and CCP removed all of the ones that were.

You are correct, however, that there is no restriction on actually having a capital ship in HiSec. Chribba's Veldnaught lives in Amarr for example and there are a few more, albeit less famous, ones lurking about.

RaTTuS
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2008.05.02 15:08:00 - [11]
 

Dreads and Carriers can be built at stations
but only 0.4 and below [or is it 0.3]
Motherships and titans need arrays to build and they need sov to anchor

Rawne Karrde
Bre-X Interstellar Shipyards
Ejectile Dysfunction
Posted - 2008.05.02 15:10:00 - [12]
 

Yeah Rattus

.4 and lower npc stations you can build dreads, carriers and rorquals.
High sec npc is freighters and jump freighters
SUper caps - titans and Moms - are capital assembly arrays only.

Amastat
Caldari
Blue Ring Defence
Posted - 2008.05.02 15:20:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Bronson Hughes
Originally by: Amastat
I may be wrong - but it is possible to have capitals in high-sec, isn't it? You just have them built in a high-sec system I think? Only issue is that once you jump out you can't get back into high-sec since cynosural fields cannot be opened in high-sec.

I had thought you can build capitals (but not super-capitals) in a station in high-sec - however no one does that since you can't jump it back in, if you plan to have it stay there you have to never jump it out.


You cannot build capital ships in NPC stations, you need to use a Large Ship Assembly Array anchored at a POS. You cannot anchor these in HiSec anymore and CCP removed all of the ones that were.

You are correct, however, that there is no restriction on actually having a capital ship in HiSec. Chribba's Veldnaught lives in Amarr for example and there are a few more, albeit less famous, ones lurking about.


Ah, ok - that makes sense then :P Too bad you can't build them anymore, I was thinking of having some dreadnoughts built in a certain 0.5 system that has a awful lot of research POS's :P

Frug
Omega Wing
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2008.05.02 15:43:00 - [14]
 

Quote:
This would allow high sec POSes to actually be taken out (have you tried to take out a POS with just BSes? ICK!)


We have taken out several high sec POS's for clients.

Amastat
Caldari
Blue Ring Defence
Posted - 2008.05.02 15:44:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Frug
Quote:
This would allow high sec POSes to actually be taken out (have you tried to take out a POS with just BSes? ICK!)


We have taken out several high sec POS's for clients.



If you guys get bored, go check out the moons in Foves - you will crap yourself :P

Zephyr Rengate
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.05.02 16:25:00 - [16]
 

Many PvPers in high sec enjoy the lack of cap ships, many seeking high because of that. After getting fed up of having carriers dropped on their roaming gang etc.

ZzZGilletteZzZ
Caldari
ZzZDefZzZ
Posted - 2008.05.02 16:37:00 - [17]
 

High sec is laggy enough without introducing carrier fighter blobs.

wired2kill
State War Academy
Posted - 2008.05.02 16:40:00 - [18]
 

hmmmmmmm fighter blob in jita

nuff said

Suitonia
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2008.05.02 18:04:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Suitonia on 02/05/2008 18:04:17
Quote:
This would allow high sec POSes to actually be taken out (have you tried to take out a POS with just BSes? ICK!)


Linkage

Took a Combined effort of 11+ hours, but it went down in the end.

I personally think Capital ships should remain in lowsec and 0.0.

Karl Luckner
Caldari
Posted - 2008.05.02 18:30:00 - [20]
 

I would like it for one reason: moving my stuff around in a Carrier.

Wasted Mind
Gallente
Syntech Research and Development
Lords of the Damned
Posted - 2008.05.02 19:45:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Wasted Mind on 02/05/2008 19:45:47
An odd side note is that i think they should at least be allowed to travel through high sec but not attack anything or anyone. It would make moving items around easier and i really do think it would help more new players get attracted to eve.

The reason i say this about new players is because i remember when i first signed up i wanted to see these huge ships such as carriers, dreads ect because they really are an awesome sight to look at. A new player entering the game and seeing such things flying around in high sec may feel more inclined to continue past the trial version just because he would be like "Dear god i must have one".

Kyreax
Gallente
Neuronix
Posted - 2008.05.02 20:19:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Wasted Mind
i think they should at least be allowed to travel through high sec but not attack anything or anyone.


I agree with this. Just let em in, but no attacky nobody.

Faife
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2008.05.02 20:25:00 - [23]
 

You know what was awesome? People carrier grinding lvl 4s in total safety. Yeah, let's bring that back. That's not an isk fountain at all.

Shadow Joy
Posted - 2008.05.02 20:26:00 - [24]
 

If this was implemented, it would only be a matter of time before a titan popped a doomsday in Jita.

Which, I suppose, is an argument in favor of allowing cap ships in Empire.

Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
Posted - 2008.05.02 20:47:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Shadow Joy
If this was implemented, it would only be a matter of time before a titan popped a doomsday in Jita.

Which, I suppose, is an argument in favor of allowing cap ships in Empire.



Considering you can only doomsday 0.0 space, that would be rather hard....

Bronson Hughes
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering
Posted - 2008.05.02 20:56:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Faife
You know what was awesome? People carrier grinding lvl 4s in total safety. Yeah, let's bring that back. That's not an isk fountain at all.


Except that most missions have Acceleration Gates that don't let Capital Ships in. You could only use Cap Ships on the small handful of missions that don't have gates so I don't really see that as a problem.

For my thoughts on this, look here. Basically, I sya we should let Cynos back in HiSec, but the Cyno pilots will require faction-specific consumables similar to starbase charters in addition to Cyno fuel and they need to have high enough faction standings to match the system they're opening the Cyno in. This limits the number of Cap Ships you'd see in HiSec, limits them to systems that allow POSes, and fits with the backstory.

Aurix Lexico
Slacker Industries
The Boat Violencing Initiative
Posted - 2008.05.02 21:42:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Aurix Lexico on 02/05/2008 21:44:43
I still don't get why people want cap ships in high sec. High sec POSs can be killed with BS and logistics (it is alittle hard on well setup POSs, and it should be)

Cap ships should be rare, and it should be a moment of awe when you first see one. A noob seeing a bunch outside of Jita removes the whole "wow, that thing is huge and about to kill me" vibe.

So what if it would make moving ships easier in high sec? When has game changes been based purely on your convenience?

Ever think some people want to pvp without worrying about capitals? Alot of people move to high sec just so they don't have to worry about capitals. I know some of our targets have complained about how many more sp's we have, but atleast they can still kill us. I don't want to sit outside a high sec station in a capital gang, and I know alot of people agree with me.

Faife
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2008.05.02 21:55:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Faife on 02/05/2008 21:55:37
Yeah, that's the other aspect.

Right now, I fly mostly BCs in pvp because I can't afford better. If I got wardecced by a corp 10 times my size (there's 19 of us) I can at least rely that by staying in high-sec i won't have to fight stuff bigger than BSes.

If I thought that at undock I'm gonna get surprise cyno sex, I just might drop to an NPC corp for a while. Less fun for me, less fun for the pirates, who wins on this?

Draeca
Tharri and Co.
Posted - 2008.05.02 22:02:00 - [29]
 

Yes, a capital blob outside jita 4-4 is just what we need.

Kaaii
Caldari
Kaaii-Net Research Labs
KAAII-NET
Posted - 2008.05.02 22:46:00 - [30]
 



I already have caps in high sec, why would i want the rest of you nimrods to own them....ugh



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