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Ghaelsto Kakram
Minmatar
Mindgamers
Posted - 2008.05.02 16:18:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: DigitalCommunist
That was clever, because I accused you of the same thing a few days ago. Kudos for your wit, its almost as witty as reusing one-line memes.
Witty is failing to see the bigger picture. Don't worry, I will explain this when the plan unfolds. For now I've been sworn absolute secrecy. Wink

DigitalCommunist
Gallente
November Corporation
Posted - 2008.05.02 16:20:00 - [92]
 

That's so bad I don't even know how to be insulted. You are Aneu, aren't you?

Frannkie
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2008.05.02 16:23:00 - [93]
 

*snip* Posting with an unidentified character and characters in NPC corporations in this forum is prohibited. If you wish to participate in the discussions here, be sure to have your corporation and or alliance status ticked in your forum settings. ~Saint


Shivalla
Gallente
Financial Removal
THE SPACE P0LICE
Posted - 2008.05.02 16:23:00 - [94]
 

Who´s Aneu?

With this much bitterness I would have hoped/wished/thought it could be either Mynas, or... hmm, Mynas...

Rift Scorn
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2008.05.02 16:27:00 - [95]
 

Edited by: Rift Scorn on 02/05/2008 16:27:44
Originally by: KIAEddZ
BoB were crumbling, their leadership afk, their membership bored and unmotivated, and it looked at this time as though there was simply no hope for them. MC wanted out of the relationship, and they wanted their home space secure from those that will Attack BoB and of course from BoB themselves. The great Irony in this story is a simple one, the betrayal of BoB by MC was effected because BoB had lost their way, the betrayal of Bob by MC gave BoB direction again....


This in itself is massive presumption. You didn't know bob was crumbling, leadership AFK & membership bored and unmotivated; you presumed they were which couldn't be further from the truth. Either you got bad, or mis-information which you then took as gospel.

I've been i BoB for 3 years give or take, sometime most active, sometimes taking a hiatus; but the guy's that run the show i've known for 3 years, gone drinking with, debauched with and not once either in game or outside of TQ servers were anyone one of them having anything other than best time for a long time. You should know this EddZ, and KIA's track record against BoB has been bad, putting it mildly, from the first failed contract against us 2 1/2 years ago to this last 'for the lulz' dec a matter of weeks ago.

The presumptions you make about us in this post you shouldn't have written. They're exatley that, speculation at best - manipulative dis-information at worst and if you wrote them as a way to justify KIA's actions then it's more proof than ever that Tortuga as an entity was a reactionary force and NOT the pro-action entity that you sold yourself as, and that ended in fail. I myself am one of the old timers that came worming out the woodwork for this when i heard over the internets about Tortuga, as an ex-BNC director i know the exact details of the deal between MC/BoB which is probabley more than you do. It was a betrayal from MC specifically timed for the worst possible effect on us, and the most opportunistic for them and you. I'm glad it backfired as Tortuga worked on your assumptions you made in first post and therefore face planted.

Do i wish KIA good luck? No. It is a hard universe and no one loves you and i plan to do my bit to keep it that way, your alliance used the NAP-train bandwagon for personal gain (which i can respect) but now you must burn. You personally seem to have done rather well out the deal; now do you have the cahjoones to use it?

Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.05.02 16:37:00 - [96]
 

Interesting read, so when's Seleene writing one of these Razz

Ghaelsto Kakram
Minmatar
Mindgamers
Posted - 2008.05.02 16:40:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Rift Scorn
This in itself is massive presumption. You didn't know bob was crumbling, leadership AFK & membership bored and unmotivated; you presumed they were which couldn't be further from the truth. Either you got bad, or mis-information which you then took as gospel.

Actually it's not. Bob members themselves claimed this Tortuga ordeal made them come back out of hibernation and got them fired up ready to go. Do you want quotes for that?
So before that they were exactly in the state Eddz described.
No spin, just fair comment.

Yaay
Amarr
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2008.05.02 16:41:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: Rift Scorn
Edited by: Rift Scorn on 02/05/2008 16:27:44
Originally by: KIAEddZ
BoB were crumbling, their leadership afk, their membership bored and unmotivated, and it looked at this time as though there was simply no hope for them. MC wanted out of the relationship, and they wanted their home space secure from those that will Attack BoB and of course from BoB themselves. The great Irony in this story is a simple one, the betrayal of BoB by MC was effected because BoB had lost their way, the betrayal of Bob by MC gave BoB direction again....


I know for a fact I constantly told MC BoB leadership was alive and active, though unfocused b/c of Feyth. It was more doubt on MC's part than actual fact.

As for FCs, in hindsight, a lot of their inactive FCs were probably more a result of me than anything else, I had several Months during a job search after school where I could devote many hrs... that coincided with FAT. Dian rightly pointed out to me that our inactive FCs were more a result of people chilling on easy street who'd been there and done it b/c I was quite often there and willing. It took me a while to realize I made my own bed on that one.

BoB never suffered greatly from inactive members, they were just scattered 40 jumps apart. And 2 timezones conflicted with orders.

One thing I've never understood about MC during the grumbling phase was that they(some) wanted/expected BoB to pay for their titan loss.... WTF.

BoB didn't lose their way, they just suffered from a problem NOBODY except them has ever faced: how do you defend 7 regions you're responsible for especially with so much pressure. 80 jumps, 7-10 capital jumps from one side to the other.

Asestorian
Minmatar
Domination.
Legion of The Damned.
Posted - 2008.05.02 16:42:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: Ghaelsto Kakram
Originally by: Rift Scorn
This in itself is massive presumption. You didn't know bob was crumbling, leadership AFK & membership bored and unmotivated; you presumed they were which couldn't be further from the truth. Either you got bad, or mis-information which you then took as gospel.

Actually it's not. Bob members themselves claimed this Tortuga ordeal made them come back out of hibernation and got them fired up ready to go. Do you want quotes for that?
So before that they were exactly in the state Eddz described.
No spin, just fair comment.


I think you're missing the point. Rift said himself that he came back because of Tortuga. What he was denying was that the active members at the time had lost their motivation and leadership, which is what EddZ claims happened.

Yaay
Amarr
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2008.05.02 16:42:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: Ghaelsto Kakram
Originally by: Rift Scorn
This in itself is massive presumption. You didn't know bob was crumbling, leadership AFK & membership bored and unmotivated; you presumed they were which couldn't be further from the truth. Either you got bad, or mis-information which you then took as gospel.

Actually it's not. Bob members themselves claimed this Tortuga ordeal made them come back out of hibernation and got them fired up ready to go. Do you want quotes for that?
So before that they were exactly in the state Eddz described.
No spin, just fair comment.


That was more about old members who left probably 6 months or more before, not 2 months like it appears there.

Nina Velori
Minmatar
INIQUIT REPRISAL
Posted - 2008.05.02 16:43:00 - [101]
 

Watch out lads, Tortuga are giving no quarter.Very Happy

Ghaelsto Kakram
Minmatar
Mindgamers
Posted - 2008.05.02 16:54:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: Asestorian
I think you're missing the point. Rift said himself that he came back because of Tortuga. What he was denying was that the active members at the time had lost their motivation and leadership, which is what EddZ claims happened.

You forget at that time PL were in Delve causing mayhem. Coalition being able to take over several systems.
And someone quitting after an emo rage.
Again, it still adds up.

Siddy
Minmatar
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.02 16:56:00 - [103]
 

Edited by: Siddy on 02/05/2008 16:57:10
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
That's so bad I don't even know how to be insulted. You are Aneu, aren't you?


You just got served right there, digi!

your e-ego just got massive hit i bet!


Anyhow, i had this mental image of poor fiddler, playing outdoors in the wintter, as i red this thread.


DigitalCommunist
Gallente
November Corporation
Posted - 2008.05.02 16:59:00 - [104]
 

That's deep Siddy

Havoc G
Gallente
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.05.02 17:02:00 - [105]
 

nice read eddz..

Much love from the x celts guys Razz

Siddy
Minmatar
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.02 17:03:00 - [106]
 

Edited by: Siddy on 02/05/2008 17:13:02
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
That's deep Siddy


You know, like realy poor fiddler, all rags and stuff.
Playing realy realy realy sad song that cuts so deep into your heart.

A wiev so sad, no man with human heart, can pass it by an not feel pitty for this poor soul. Someone, who once was a grate maestro, but now plays in the corner of the street just to feed his 12 children.

/edit

and then i found this


VileLust
Minmatar
Xenobytes
Stain Empire
Posted - 2008.05.02 17:08:00 - [107]
 

On behalf of ODD.. we wish KIA and all the others the best, in their future adventures.

Yaay
Amarr
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2008.05.02 17:13:00 - [108]
 

Edited by: Yaay on 02/05/2008 17:16:13
Edited by: Yaay on 02/05/2008 17:14:52
Originally by: Ghaelsto Kakram
Originally by: Asestorian
I think you're missing the point. Rift said himself that he came back because of Tortuga. What he was denying was that the active members at the time had lost their motivation and leadership, which is what EddZ claims happened.

You forget at that time PL were in Delve causing mayhem. Coalition being able to take over several systems.
And someone quitting after an emo rage.
Again, it still adds up.


Someone quitting after an emo rage had more to do with that someone having his head up his own ass, and a beef with a few people. It has little to do with why he left, just the straw....

And I should know, it was me. And I learned greatly from it and improved b/c of it. Still a regret of mine.

And the very active MC push to steal a BoB FC with a lot of crap should be mentioned as part of the head up my own ass lot.

Emolayshun
Minmatar
Republic University
Posted - 2008.05.02 17:17:00 - [109]
 

*snip* Posting with an unidentified character and characters in NPC corporations in this forum is prohibited. If you wish to participate in the discussions here, be sure to have your corporation and or alliance status ticked in your forum settings. ~Saint

Murtala
Caldari
Mushin Market
Posted - 2008.05.02 17:18:00 - [110]
 

Nice and delicately written analysis and I appreciate what you are trying to say. I remember when you joined Tortuga, you said you had nothing to loose as KIA have never had 0.0 space before, so fair play.

The real fun of victory and agony of defeat is all played out in 0.0 and not empire and I am pleased for that you got to experience it. Good luck and happy to see you will remain part of past and future eve folk lure.

kwim
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2008.05.02 17:20:00 - [111]
 

amazing read eddz, great write up. Unfortunately thread ruined by DICE and BOB trolls but nothing changes there... gratz on the titan and hope to see more posts like this soon.

Doddy
Gallente
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2008.05.02 17:36:00 - [112]
 

Nice write up Eddz, unlike most people you are wise enough to state its only from your POV and i must respect that. You may be over-egging the pudding when you say the Tortuga incident saved BoB. I will say that the thought of being in PB when MC got what was coming to them certainly kept me logging into the meatgrinder/lagfest of QY6/NOL, and i think the same can be said for many of my corp/alliance mates.

Moran Trayga
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2008.05.02 17:41:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: kwim
amazing read eddz, great write up. Unfortunately thread ruined by DICE and BOB trolls but nothing changes there... gratz on the titan and hope to see more posts like this soon.


Just because it was well written doesn't mean it was accurate. Just shows how easy it is to fool people. "Look he said some nice things about the enemy, therefore this must all be true!"

Abriana Overlord
Caldari
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.02 17:46:00 - [114]
 

so to sum it up then, the Tortuga experiment is coming to an end?

Karatis
Amarr
Infinite Improbability Inc
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2008.05.02 17:55:00 - [115]
 

Salute!


o7

Best regards to you KIA.

General Windypops
Gallente
The Littlest Hobos
En Garde
Posted - 2008.05.02 17:56:00 - [116]
 

What's that on your nose, Eddz?

Chap Man
Caldari
Damage Unlimited Inc
AN EYE F0R AN EYE
Posted - 2008.05.02 18:01:00 - [117]
 

Can we expect a statement on Tortuga from MC as well?

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2008.05.02 18:01:00 - [118]
 

Originally by: Abriana Overlord
so to sum it up then, the Tortuga experiment is coming to an end?


Nothing wrong with that, is it?

That is what experiments are good for. Trying to do some stuff, having fun and if it works even better. If it doesn't work after putting some good efforts into it, abandon it and move on to other projects.

Why cling to it when it is obviously that it won't work? Only to please BoB so that they can have fun with some fights? Looks like fun times for BoB are over, no one wants to play with them any more Razz That is much worse than having whole Eve against them!

Shivalla
Gallente
Financial Removal
THE SPACE P0LICE
Posted - 2008.05.02 18:06:00 - [119]
 

Originally by: Moran Trayga
Originally by: kwim
amazing read eddz, great write up. Unfortunately thread ruined by DICE and BOB trolls but nothing changes there... gratz on the titan and hope to see more posts like this soon.


Just because it was well written doesn't mean it was accurate. Just shows how easy it is to fool people. "Look he said some nice things about the enemy, therefore this must all be true!"


There has always been and always will be a spot for propaganda, and alts which spout it, and ofc there is a audience for it aswell.

/future prediction mode [ON]

In ´09 KIAEddz (I hope), will be writing their "insert X years together" birthday post, and ramble about how things have changed since Tortuga. How they left PB as honorable mercenary group, and how they have evolved (sorry had to use the word) into a leaner/meaner killing machine. Talk about the contracts they may have had and stuff.

Its normal to try and give a good memory (As a Corp/Alliance leader) for those who have sacrificed their time/effort/isk for a cause that made KIA what it had/has become, and how they acquired their first titan etc, and also color the history with the color palette of very own choosing, as thats how you want your precious (Corp/Alliance) to be seen.

/future prediction mode [OFF]

But dont mix those memories with truth. Truth is always tad bit more complicated, as with truth there is more sides seen as just one. As we all know, history is written by the winners, in both good and bad. As if we look back in 09, there is going to be posts from BOB and alliances who were part of this whole ordeal aswell, and they will with certainty be a lot different, as we were looking at the sights of our very own guns, while Tortugans were looking into a barrel of the gun pointing at them, and vice versa.

There is a difference on perspective how things go. And because of that perspective, its just all fun and games, crap and giggles, name it how you want. It was fun while it lasted.

For some reason I do like KIAEddz post tho, even as it is a biased and onesided, it seems like he actually believes what he has written. For that, I tip my hat, and hope good future, and more pewpew to come.

But so that this doesnt end in a all in all good and happy note, I must say that its sad that KIA took the intel they were given, and in the light of thigs, accepted em, without chewing it fully through. As maybe, I say *maybe* the events in close future would have been different on the sake of MC/KIA.

I liked MC I really did. Such a waste tho, for mere bad leadership, and bitter/emo directors.

I think I have been all too emo now, and stop posting on this thread :)

Cu on the Battlefield as they say.

Abriana Overlord
Caldari
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.02 18:09:00 - [120]
 

Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: Abriana Overlord
so to sum it up then, the Tortuga experiment is coming to an end?


Nothing wrong with that, is it?

That is what experiments are good for. Trying to do some stuff, having fun and if it works even better. If it doesn't work after putting some good efforts into it, abandon it and move on to other projects.

Why cling to it when it is obviously that it won't work? Only to please BoB so that they can have fun with some fights? Looks like fun times for BoB are over, no one wants to play with them any more Razz That is much worse than having whole Eve against them!


Apart from the obvious MC backstab...

However all I asked is was it coming to an end, nothing less, nothing more


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