open All Channels
seplocked Corporation, Alliance and Organization Discussions
blankseplocked Tortuga - KIA POV.
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Author Topic

KIAEddZ
Caldari
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.02 11:13:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: KIAEddZ on 02/05/2008 11:47:04
"In free countries, every man is entitled to express his opinions and every other man is entitled not to listen. - G. Norman"

In late November 2007 I was having one of my pretty bog standard chats with Sel, when out of the blue he asked "Ever thought about owning 0.0 space?"

Over the coming few weeks a plan that had been hatching within MC leadership was laid out for me to peruse and gander at, the plan was a simple one.

BoB were crumbling, their leadership afk, their membership bored and unmotivated, and it looked at this time as though there was simply no hope for them. MC wanted out of the relationship, and they wanted their home space secure from those that will Attack BoB and of course from BoB themselves. The great Irony in this story is a simple one, the betrayal of BoB by MC was effected because BoB had lost their way, the betrayal of Bob by MC gave BoB direction again...

So on 15th December 2007, Tortuga was born, and Period Basis became the new home of KIA Alliance.

Tortuga was made up of 4 Entities.

MC - Renowned Mercenary Corp, with a Capital Fleet surpassing most in the game. A good solid Alliance with an awesome Industrial backend. (This also included Daisho, a small dedicated group of people, who would turn out to be one of the backbones of Tortuga)

KIA - Empire based Mercenary Corp. Small Capital Fleet, experienced gang warfare pilots.

Outbreak - Capital Killers, made a good name in several high profile contracts.

Evoke - Ex D2, large Cap Fleet, a big weight.

The land in Period Basis was divvied up, and the plan to take it by force was set in motion.

From the outset, KIA (which means me I guess) never felt that BoB would try and defend Period Basis. Tortuga was formed with an ideal, that these 4 Entities would remain Blue to ONLY themselves, and the rest of Eve would be reset Neutral. Neutrals on your border, with no interest in attacking your Home constellation, and no intent on helping those that want to, seemed to make sense... in my cold dark heart though, I underestimated the power of feelings.

KIA took control of its space quickly and effectively, a BoB Pet DL was currently living there, and they were quickly assimilated into KIA. We understood the risks from spies, we understood the risks that this entailed, but an inner Alliance management group for these guys was setup, and we pushed forward with the plan.

By end of week 1 KIA had all of their systems Towered and collecting Sov.

As Christmas approached, everything looked great. Our first outings as a combined fleet saw up to 140 Capitals on the field, 75 dreads. 250 man fleet in total. Period Basis fell fast and hard, BoB didn't answer...

Then TPAR.

An early mistake was made, and we delayed in pushing on TPAR. When we eventually did, BoB reacted.The vilification of MC was rife, BoB were using the betrayal, the outrageous backstabbing of the people they had worked hand in hand with for many years, to motivate. Inactive players returned, numbers swelled, pets came on board... BoB breathed life again, and Molle sat astride this heaving ferocious monster hell bent on revenge, and he saw a chance, a chance to save everything that he had worked to achieve.

As the Towers came out of re enforced, in the last BoB owned area of Period Basis, BoB moved in.

You will notice in my recap of Tortuga, that I have an admiration for BoB, one forged over the last 2 months or so, and one they have indeed earned the hard way. That admiration was conceived in those weeks over Christmas. BoB threw capitals into the fray, and Tortuga made their second large and questionable decision.

We decided to NOT commit our capitals, and let BoB keep TPAR. We knew a Coalition push On Delve was coming, and we knew that TPAR would be ours no problem, no need to lose capitals!... right?.

The first attempt at TPAR was unsuccessful.

KIAEddZ
Caldari
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.02 11:14:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: KIAEddZ on 02/05/2008 11:16:05
The first attempt at TPAR was unsuccessful. Outbreak and Evoke numbers in the fleets had dropped, Christmas was coming and their membership was busy with this, no long term problems.. just wait till holidays over.

A new attempt on the 27th December was planned, we needed numbers and commitment, if we could put 60 Dreads on the field, and 150 BS, nothing could stop us taking TPAR and signing off on this stage of proceedings.. The cracks started to appear.

We were 3 weeks in, and MC KIA and Daisho were putting the numbers into the fleets, outbreak and especially Evoke simply were not. At the time there was a lot of anger and resentment from the membership of KIA towards Evoke and OB, looking back now this was mostly due to a lack of understanding.

So into January we went, still TPAR was held by BoB, and the cracks widened further.

Some of the FC's stepping up, were inexperienced, and in all honesty poor. This caused quite a kerfluffle in the KIA camp, as ships were lost, tension mounted. KIA came under flack for ill fitted Fleet ships, and all in all tensions mounted between the parties.

Add to this the continued lack of pilots from Evoke and Outbreak in the Tortugan fleets, and things didnít look so great. Then things changed for KIA. After 5 weeks of attrition, 5 weeks of war, 5 weeks of losing ships with no respite, I gave my pilots a 4 day carebear break.... and for the first time they began to understand why we were doing this.

"It is easy to embellish the pillars and insert beams in a home but hard to get the huai tree to grow. - Yuan Yeh"

Home. A daring concept for a group of people like us. For many years the like so BoB and MC had enjoyed the fruits of a stable home in 0.0. The riches, and the sense of ownership.

That first 4 day break turned the tide of negativity within KIA, home began to feel like home. ISK was readily available, and the pilots of KIA went about replacing losses. Joy had entered the hearts, the carebear in all of us began to feel the nourishment.

So January flew by, as Tortuga waited for the Coalition to push on Delve, we carebeared and ran around in gank squads. 100's of ships died, 10's of 1000's of NPC followed suit, and all was well. Our pos infrastructure grew, Necro from KIA working solid for 10+ hours a day on building the beams that would hold the KIA roof on. Moon goo suddenly seemed important, and a realisation of the riches that 0.0 entities had at their disposal became apparent. KIA was happy, it had found its home.

And into February, TPAR fell, and the coalition pushed hard on BoB. BoBs' vilification of MC had taken them so far, could they push on and turn it all round.. KIA hoped not, if BoB lived Tortuga faced trouble.

"Life is fortified by many friendships - Sydney Smith"

The ejection of Outbreak and Evoke from Tortuga is a tale laced in some ill feeling, so I will do my best to post the facts ONLY as I see them.

Outbreak and Evokes numbers from Christmas onwards were low, they didn't put the effort in that the rest of us did. They made no excuses for this, and the honesty was refreshing. Their corps were on the edge of crumbling, POS wars and the attrition that accompanies them, were killing their membership base, they HAD top stop helping in them, or they faced a bitter reality that they wouldn't have corps any longer.

The napping of Goons in an attempt to ensure BoBs demise and thus Tortugas life, also did not sit well with them. And arguments began between the leadership about the direction Tortuga should follow, many felt OB had lost thier right to demand policy, and thus talks began.

Questions were asked, if Period Basis is hit, would Outbreak and Evoke really be there to help? Would they really commit to a month of hard fought pos war.. the answer was a simple one, No.

At the time of the approach to Evoke and OB ...

Shirokko Papshimar
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2008.05.02 11:14:00 - [3]
 

yarr!

KIAEddZ
Caldari
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.02 11:14:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: KIAEddZ on 02/05/2008 11:16:52
At the time of the approach to Evoke and OB and the request for them to leave Period Basis, my own personal feeling on this was that, they had gained a lot of ISK from holding the Moons in their constellation, and as such I didnít feel at all bad about replacing them with someone new..

I know some of the OB/Evoke guys hold some ill sentiment towards Tortuga, maybe even KIA in particular, but this feeling isn't reciprocated. We wished you well at the time of the "split", and we still do now.

Odyssey, made up of the "better" corps from IAC joined Tortuga in late February, they were given the Daisho systems of TPAR and its constellation, and Daisho who had grown and thrived were given old Evoke space. A reward for a team that had consistently given high numbers, and total commitment to the cause.

"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake. - Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower"

And so that sees us through to the here n now.

MC space is under siege, and MC themselves are suffering in house. KIA and all other Tortugan parties have withdrawn the bulk of their asset to empire, all that is left are ships to fight in.

The culmination is dissapointing, with Tortugan forces ambushed hard n fast by BoB, no time to gather forces and create a fight back, MC unable to overcome internal fighting to lead the charge, and KIA/Daisho last to see the fall and thus rushing to get assets out n safe.

We are beaten, we know it now, as we have done for a while, but we also know that the fight didnt start just a few weeks ago, we have fought this fight since Dec 15th 2007, and it was a long hard fight where the chance of victory was always slim, but we fought it none the less.

We are dying on our feet, no quarter asked for, no quarter given. We wouldn't want it any other way.

"Complacency is the root of mediocrity yet there should be no room for complacency or mediocrity if one reads and lives passionately. - Lucie MacDougall"

What went wrong....

The basis of what went wrong is very simple. BoB.

BoB used the epic betrayal, and the leadership made it something it wasn't. They needed it, they needed the spark, and through clever management of people and PR, BoB now are stronger than they ever were.

Gratz to them, I mentioned a quiet admiration for them, and it is mainly because they achieved what no one gave them hope of doing, they stood on the threshold of death, and brought it all the way back.

All the credit cannot go to only them of course, their enemies through inner fighting let them slip through the net when it should of been closed, the coalition wasn't very "co-", much more ego, and MC let it all get on top of them.

As Period Basis Falls to BoBs awesome force, 400+ pilots 200+ Capitals, its with a sad heart that I look at the Tortugan Ideal, KIA just wanted to be free of obligation, and have a home in lucrative space, surrounded by like minded people.

Who says of course, that the future doesnít hold this for us still.


KIAEddZ
Caldari
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.02 11:17:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: KIAEddZ on 02/05/2008 11:47:25
In summary I would like to say that I see Tortuga as a great success for KIA.

In the 6 months that we lived and breathed this project, we have achieved much.

We have been on the killmails (please note I am fully aware some of those kills were Tortugan Efforts hence my phrasing) for over 290 billion isk of ships. We have lost in return 37 billion isk in Ships.

The corps that have remained in KIA have seen a decent growth, with KIA Corp itself swelling by about 20% over this period. We can put a fleet of 40-60 pilots on the field every night, and we have scope for adding another corp to our ranks in the future.

Pilots have made 100's of billions in personal isk, and for the first time affluence is fairly rife in KIA.

The Alliance takes away over 60 Billion in Asset- Towers, Fittings, Minerals and Fuel Stocks, all bought n paid for by the Moons here.

We maintained a happy Alliance, KIA's morale has been generally high for the past 6 months, and we have successfully run a 0.0 Entity under fair pressure.

We have a Titan, built and in action as a direct result of the Tortugan Project.

And we have learnt many lessons, some the hard way, some the easy way. Contract offers for KIA are plentiful, and the blank canvas we look at now seems to have more options than ever before. The future feels bright and I have learnt a lot about my membership, individuals and as a whole, over these past 6 months and that learning will put us in good stead for our next adventures.

My thanks to Seleene of MC, Darth of Daisho. You guys have made this what it is, and my deepest thanks to MC, Daisho, Evoke, Outbreak and Odyssey for enjoying the adventure with us.

It wouldn't be right to leave this without a genuine thanks to BoB. You guys are still the benchmark. I tip my hat to that. Well played.

But most of all, thank you to the pilots of KIA, you are what this is all about, and I doff my cap on a bended knee to your guile. Love you guys.

It always has and always will be, simply and rightfully, just about the Pew Pew :)

Sean Dillon
Caldari
Surreal corp
Stain Empire
Posted - 2008.05.02 11:21:00 - [6]
 

You win some, you lose some. Aslong it stays fun. Nice write up.

Omega Man
Amarr
The Geddy Foundation
Posted - 2008.05.02 11:21:00 - [7]
 

well done Eddz, sorry it might not have worked out quite as you expected, or perhaps it did.

thebold
Gallente
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2008.05.02 11:21:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: KIAEddZ

Pilots have made 100's of billions in personal isk, and for the first time affluence is fairly writhe in KIA.

The Alliance takes away over 60 Billion in Asset- Towers, Fittings, Minerals and Fuel Stocks, all bought n paid for by the Moons here.



Carebear

Natsumi Hikaru
Amarr
Infinite Improbability Inc
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2008.05.02 11:22:00 - [9]
 

wow the ( in my opinion ) first unbiased writeup of the Tortuga Incident ^^

Thanks EddZ

Schneiderr
Caldari
AMT.
Ev0ke
Posted - 2008.05.02 11:22:00 - [10]
 

reserved Smile

Dianabolic
Gallente
Reikoku
IT Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.02 11:23:00 - [11]
 

There are a few inaccuracies / "creative" paragraphs in that write-up, Eddz, but that doesn't sully the fact it's overall a pretty honest assessment and pretty well written.

Who wrote it for you? :p

Danari
Amarr
Invictus Australis
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.05.02 11:26:00 - [12]
 

Please do not troll. ~Saint

Turkantho
Caldari
AMT.
Ev0ke
Posted - 2008.05.02 11:26:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Turkantho on 02/05/2008 12:50:54
Originally by: Schneiderr
reserved Smile


on second thought, kia is not worth a reply

Endeva
Caldari
Red Dragon Crime Syndicate.
Posted - 2008.05.02 11:27:00 - [14]
 

if you edit your post and write a little more nice words about bob i am sure you will be able to get pet status and get some stations:P

Banlish
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas.
Posted - 2008.05.02 11:28:00 - [15]
 


Read it as it was being poasted.

Finally some of the murky parts were explained, so thanks for that. The ideal wasn't a bad one, and I hope one day to see a 'merc' region or group of constellations somewhere in the game for such groups.

Hope all entities recover from this and we don't see too much smack in this thread.

flakeys
Caldari
The Great cornholio's
Paper Tiger Coalition
Posted - 2008.05.02 11:30:00 - [16]
 

Nice write up

Rheinkraft
Caldari
Eternity INC.
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2008.05.02 11:32:00 - [17]
 

Nice read. well done to you guys and especially bob YARRRR!!


Crax McGee
Caldari
ArmoredCore Armed Forces
Posted - 2008.05.02 11:32:00 - [18]
 

Really good Write up eddz- ill need 2 speak 2 u in game at somepoint :)

Kay Han
Caldari
Divine Retribution
Sons of Tangra
Posted - 2008.05.02 11:33:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: "KIAEddz"

stuff



Did you guys finally learn how to fitt a fleet bs properly?

Oh and in case you didnt know it yet... Titans cant enter jita.

Now go and die like MC Twisted Evil

Wladomir Jed
Caldari
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.02 11:35:00 - [20]
 

Nice writeup Eddz, hope you and the rest of the Tortuga guys keep having fun!

Sarovin
Gallente
Faint Corp
Posted - 2008.05.02 11:38:00 - [21]
 

nice write up, good to get all the details instead of third party speculation Very Happy

Spoon Thumb
Caldari
Khanid Provincial Vanguard
Vanguard Imperium
Posted - 2008.05.02 11:38:00 - [22]
 


You talked about "home". I think many people argued that Tortuga was a flawed concept because when you have something of your own worth fighting for, you stop becoming a mercenary and instead like all the other 0.0 entities out there

What do you say to that?

Mr Mozzie
Caldari
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.02 11:41:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: KIAEddZ
MC space is under siege, and MC themselves are suffering in house. KIA and all other Tortugan parties have withdrawn the bulk of their asset to empire, all that is left are ships to fight in.


Then stop suiciding those ships and fight.

Shivalla
Gallente
Financial Removal
THE SPACE P0LICE
Posted - 2008.05.02 11:41:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Shivalla on 02/05/2008 12:01:27
I Blame Mynas(TM)

On second note: Nice writeup, from a point of view which cannot grasp whole situation from the POV of BOB for example. But the writeup is nice, well written, and honest. But I still blame Mynas (TM)

Wanna Kill
Caldari
Amplified Pain
Posted - 2008.05.02 11:47:00 - [25]
 

Keep going Kia, if you're still fighting like you did back in the days, you'll be better off with the smaller gangs.
(embrace for trolling, respect for your write-up from this front!)

Anton Marx
Caldari
Warhamsters
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2008.05.02 11:48:00 - [26]
 

First page of such a nice write-up and already so much bitterness Confused

Enjoyed reading the story, nice read for downtime Wink

gazthenailer
Caldari
Mortis Angelus
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.05.02 11:48:00 - [27]
 

good post m8.

Nice to see people honor the fights we all are part off, instead of just smacktalk. Even when the result is not to your favor.


I know KIA this is not the end of KIA and it will be fun to see what you guys decide to do in the future.

/G


Zetjur Jilnou
Caldari
Rapid Deployment Industries
Posted - 2008.05.02 11:49:00 - [28]
 

Just about the most honest, well written post there has been on COAD for a couple of years.

Valkazm
Amarr
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.02 11:53:00 - [29]
 

one thing though what about the KIA policy that only KIA corp gets all the loot from kills .. i know its a small matter but i mean not really boosting morale that all loot goes to once corp .. im not trying to be critical i was just shocked that it worked that way .. i have full respect for KIA ..

Pesadel0
Minmatar
the muppets
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2008.05.02 11:55:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Mr Mozzie
Originally by: KIAEddZ
MC space is under siege, and MC themselves are suffering in house. KIA and all other Tortugan parties have withdrawn the bulk of their asset to empire, all that is left are ships to fight in.


Then stop suiciding those ships and fight.


Yup pretty much this.Confused


Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only