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Hamfast
Gallente
Posted - 2008.04.29 21:28:00 - [1]
 

To all candidates, what changes, if any, would you suggest for the invention process?

Feel free to admit a lack of knowledge on the subject.

Arithron
Gallente
Gallente Trade Alliance
Posted - 2008.04.29 21:32:00 - [2]
 

Three words: More decryptor seeding!

Prices for these, since they now coming from exploration sites, have gone upwards and now make module invention using them unprofitable (for many modules).

I also have seen some good ideas regarding ME/PE research after invention on BPC. What do others feel/think about such ideas?

Take care,
Bruce Hansen

MongWen
Xeno Tech Corp
Self Destruct.
Posted - 2008.04.29 22:04:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: MongWen on 30/04/2008 19:22:32
Like Arithron I who’d like to see more seeding of decryptors.

Even the idea off me/pe research is somewhat a good idea, that will level the playing ground between BPO and copies, though it can have a bad turnout in the long run.

Edit:
I have just started with the Invention part of the game so i dont have any extensive know all to it

Artmedis Valben
Gallente
Posted - 2008.05.13 18:38:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Artmedis Valben on 13/05/2008 18:38:57
Few questions on the subject:

1) Making the formula public? Atm we have two unknown variables Skill effect and base item effect. Since we have two unknowns, figuring out the formula is next to impossible.

2) ME/PE adjustment: several suggestions have been made regarding these. a) Make the ME/PE of the BPC reduce the Base negative penalty?
b) Make invented BPCs researcheble?
c) Intruduce skills/implants that adjust the outcome?

3) Module invention on par with T2 BPO Copies when it comes to max runs:
a) make the +run decryptors multiply with the base number runs. Then I could invent a 100 run BPC for inventing T3 if there is a major advantage to that?
b) make T3 invention always yield a single run no matter what the run of the T2 module was?

4) Decryptors, the lack of decryptors since they were all moved to exploration has led to them sky rocketting to prices where many of them are not cost effective for any invention.
a) Bring decryptors (at least the common ones) back to the static COSMOS plexes?
b) increase the spawn rate of radar sites, or increase the drop rate from all radar sites?

5) Balance, if any of these BOOSTS to invention are made, what balancing nerfs would you advocate?
a) Longer invention times?
b) Have the interfaces stuck for the duration of the jobs, i.e., only one simultaneous job per interface?
c) lower the success rates?

6) COSMOS, Invention has made decryptors used to build the special COSMOS items from the unique BPCs found there even more impractical than ever before:
a) replace decryptors with some other cosmos specific item in the BoM?
b) increase the drop rates of all decryptors to the point where their price is no longer a major hindrance to building these?

Any thoughts on these questions would be welcome

Elisa Day
Shade.
Mercenary Coalition
Posted - 2008.05.13 21:49:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Arithron
Three words: More decryptor seeding!


THIS is the only real thing that needs to be done! Virtually all modules are unprofitable at this point. Decryptor prices are up from a few 100k to tens of millions since the COSMOS nerf and it's just bad for everyone involved except the explorers (though I guess they deserve something after the skillbook prices crashed!)

... apart from obvious UI improvements like removing the ridiculous moving checkbox pane that comes down every time you install a job, the million click required per job (ABILITY TO INSTALL MANY JOBS AT THE SAME TIME PLEASE!!!)... But the UI for the entire game needs to be basically redone from scratch by real designers, and everyone knows that already.

Grey Shadow
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.13 23:42:00 - [6]
 

nutshell

less grind

more fun

reward



Andy

Breha Organa
Posted - 2008.05.15 03:58:00 - [7]
 

Little tidbit for inventors in the crowd:
Did you know that you can "repair" RAM/Tech in stations with repair facilities? thereby extending the life of the technology?

Maobih Vanire
Posted - 2008.05.15 06:33:00 - [8]
 


how would you feel about allowing stacking of bpc/invention copies so that you didn't have all these one copy/very short time frame manufacturing issues? it seems that the current way flies in the face of how manufacturing worked in pre-invention and people that liked doing production before might feel excluded now due to this change to short time frames.

Originally by: Arithron
Three words: More decryptor seeding!

Prices for these, since they now coming from exploration sites, have gone upwards and now make module invention using them unprofitable (for many modules).

I also have seen some good ideas regarding ME/PE research after invention on BPC. What do others feel/think about such ideas?

Take care,
Bruce Hansen


Bambi
Existentialist Collective
Posted - 2008.05.15 13:33:00 - [9]
 

This could apply to any build/invent jobs...
WE NEED MORE SLOTS!!
10 manufacture and 10 science slots is pittiful for a dedicated inventor builder. Give us a nice expensive high ranking skill for another 10-20 job slots.

Juang Mao
Posted - 2008.05.16 12:06:00 - [10]
 

To the candidates – Do any of the CSM candidates plan to raise suggestions from their electorate, with possible solutions. Or in fact will they merely discuss amongst themselves, and then inform CCP that the issue was raised?

I would also like to offer this idea for consideration for increasing production / reducing time.

‘Slot Batching’, in a system such as Eve Online more slots could be given to batches on multiple runs of specific jobs; for example..

A player wants to build 40 Cruise launcher II, 4 Ferox’s, 120k Graviton Reactors and 40k Quantum Microprocessors. They have 4x10run Cruise Launchers bpc, 4 Ferox BPO's, 5 Graviton Reactor BPO's and 2 Quantum BPO’s.

In science and industry, having selected the manufacturing station and as such the slot, a new section opens up 'Batches'
Each Lab / Production slot has 5 Batch Slots (into which only multi-runs of the same job could be booked.)
Therefore Slot 1, Batch 1 = Cruise Launcher bpc 1
Therefore Slot 1, Batch 2 = Cruise Launcher bpc 2 etc, upto batch 4
For the Quantums, and Graviton Reactors it would see the number of bpo’s in the station hangar, then automatically divide and assign by the max numberof bpos. So if you wanted you could use just 2 Graviton Reactor BPO’s for the 120k units (i.e. producing 60k each) or use all five BPO’s and produce 14k units on each one (reducing manufacturing times).
The same could also be done for multiple research jobs, for example the same player could then use the Ferox BPO’s, in ME research Batches to research all 4 2 levels of ME all at the same time.

This use of multiple BPO’s would also create another of CCP’s greatest loves ISK sinks.

Breha Organa
Posted - 2008.05.16 17:44:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Bambi
This could apply to any build/invent jobs...
WE NEED MORE SLOTS!!
10 manufacture and 10 science slots is pittiful for a dedicated inventor builder. Give us a nice expensive high ranking skill for another 10-20 job slots.


DON'T SHOUT! I agree with you. Your vote does count.

Breha Organa
Posted - 2008.05.16 17:51:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Juang Mao
To the candidates – Do any of the CSM candidates plan to raise suggestions from their electorate, with possible solutions. Or in fact will they merely discuss amongst themselves, and then inform CCP that the issue was raised?

I would also like to offer this idea for consideration for increasing production / reducing time.

‘Slot Batching’, in a system such as Eve Online more slots could be given to batches on multiple runs of specific jobs; for example..

A player wants to build 40 Cruise launcher II, 4 Ferox’s, 120k Graviton Reactors and 40k Quantum Microprocessors. They have 4x10run Cruise Launchers bpc, 4 Ferox BPO's, 5 Graviton Reactor BPO's and 2 Quantum BPO’s.

In science and industry, having selected the manufacturing station and as such the slot, a new section opens up 'Batches'
Each Lab / Production slot has 5 Batch Slots (into which only multi-runs of the same job could be booked.)
Therefore Slot 1, Batch 1 = Cruise Launcher bpc 1
Therefore Slot 1, Batch 2 = Cruise Launcher bpc 2 etc, upto batch 4
For the Quantums, and Graviton Reactors it would see the number of bpo’s in the station hangar, then automatically divide and assign by the max numberof bpos. So if you wanted you could use just 2 Graviton Reactor BPO’s for the 120k units (i.e. producing 60k each) or use all five BPO’s and produce 14k units on each one (reducing manufacturing times).
The same could also be done for multiple research jobs, for example the same player could then use the Ferox BPO’s, in ME research Batches to research all 4 2 levels of ME all at the same time.

This use of multiple BPO’s would also create another of CCP’s greatest loves ISK sinks.



I'm liking the sound of this... especially when my favorite research lab is 20 jumps away, and is in 0.2 space. The unavailability of research slots is also an issue for me. I'd like to see this solution only because it appears to have the effect of freeing up research slots at a facility as well. Juang, we need 5% of players agreeing that this is a "problem to be addressed" before CSM can bring it up. Make sure to check back here after the election and start a thread on "Research of BPOs"... get some discussion going on it. You have a good start for the thread right here.

Alusha
Caldari
Lobster of Babel
Posted - 2008.05.18 13:09:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Alusha on 18/05/2008 13:12:01
I like the idea of dedicated manufacturers and researchers being able to batch identical jobs.

I can see this as two new skills: Production batching, and research batching. Rank 8-12, cost 50-100mil, prereqs adv. mass prod. 4 for production batching, adv. lab. ops 4 for research batching.

Each level allows the batching of one identical job to each job, given you have enough identical BPOs/BPCs to batch. Each batched job adds 50% to the duration of the job. With research batching level 4 and inventor could batch 5 BPCs effectively doing 5x the research in 3x the time per job.

This is a specialized ability and doesn't really apply to to every activity of researchers/producers, but could give dedicated manufacturers and researchers more room to breathe in without them hogging all the slots in a whole station for example.

I endorse an implementation along these lines of research and production job batching.

I would also endorse advanced science skill (rank 5), advanced research skill (rank 5), advanced metallurgy (rank 6) and andvanced industry (rank 5) Each skill level would reduce relevant job times by -2% per level.

And I would endorse invention skill (rank 3) that would cut invention times by 4-5% per level similiar to other jobs. As well as advanced invention (rank 6) that lowers times by -2% per level.

It goes without saying that the advanced skills would require the basic skill at level 5 as prereq.

Maobih Vanire
Posted - 2008.05.18 22:00:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Juang Mao

‘Slot Batching’, in a system such as Eve Online more slots could be given to batches on multiple runs of specific jobs; for example..



allowing bpc to be stacked into a single item would effectively do this. ie:

stacking 10 1 run bpc, would be come 1 10 run bpc... hum... maybe i should call this combining.

anyway, being able to take a group of same attribute bpc, and stack them would also address the silly numbers of non stackable items one has in a hangar/container due to bpc and invention bpc being nonstackable.

i do think that slot batching is another good idea in addressing the annoying build aspects of building in the invention oriented way.

Inanna Zuni
Minmatar
The Causality
Electus Matari
Posted - 2008.05.18 22:25:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Breha Organa
we need 5% of players agreeing that this is a "problem to be addressed" before CSM can bring it up.


um, actually the 5% requirement applies to player-initiated subjects that the CSM *must* bring up; the CSM can bring up other issues too (aiui) and, going back to the OP, then yes it is clear that there is more than just minor tweaking needed to the T2BP area (whether BPO or BPC) but this must be done without completely wiping out the investment in time and skills other pilots have already made.

IZ


 

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