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blankseplocked [CSM Candidate] Jade Constantine
 
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Idaeus
Posted - 2008.05.22 17:59:00 - [421]
 

Oh, I know that.

I was just taking a point from your post and pointing out that that we're actually thinking about the EVE community as a whole and not just ourselves which is what many of our detractors are claiming we're doing.

Tolis Irithel
Northstar Cabal
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2008.05.22 18:01:00 - [422]
 

All too true, and because I've thoroughly read most of the posts, and all bar a handful of the CSM candidates' posted opinions, I can look past the current state of these CSM forums. The unfortunate part is, I'm concerned their legitimate points are being drowned out.

Myk Taison
Unknown Force
SOLAR WING
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:45:00 - [423]
 

Originally by: Sunwillow Auryn
Basically - go by the FIFO principle - "Fit in, or ... go away."
[...]
This is how democracy works



I don't think you "get" democracy.

Waterfowl Democracy
The Ministry of Indigenous Affairs
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:57:00 - [424]
 

Posting in a thread about democracy

Skut Farkuss
Posted - 2008.05.22 22:09:00 - [425]
 

Originally by: Skut Farkuss
Edited by: Skut Farkuss on 22/05/2008 16:59:36
Edited by: Skut Farkuss on 22/05/2008 16:50:45
Jade, I don't give a damn whether you actually step down or not, but I think we deserve an answer about whether you said you would, and if you did, why you are choosing not to.

I voted for you, though I didn't follow much of the campaigning other than threads.

Thanks!

E: I'm heading off to work, so I'll reply to any replies later, cheers all


Friendly bump for new page

Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Posted - 2008.05.22 23:46:00 - [426]
 

Edited by: Nyphur on 22/05/2008 23:47:49
Originally by: Gorobom
You're being really, really delusional. Goons pointed out lot of mistakes in the game and CCP addressed them, just like other major alliances did. Even Goons who aren't in Goonswarm like Nyphur had a huge impact in the game. The same can't be said about Derelik Capital Constructions.

WHO SUMMONS ME TO THIS THREAD? I DEMAND A SAC-RI-FICE


Of the two Goonswarm CSMs, I've only seen one of them "in action" on the forums and that's Bane Glorius. The guy's smart, he has some good ideas and I'm sure he can adapt to fill the role of CSM pretty well. Whether they zerged the votes or not isn't the issue, judge each of them on their own merits and realise that goon or not, you could do a lot worse for CSM representatives than those chosen. A LOT worse.


Initially I thought Jade would make a good chairman but it's starting to look like he's augmenting his role without talking to CCP about it and going on a bit of a power trip. The chairman is not a dictator, I'm pretty sure it's part of his job to ensure the smooth running of the council and I don't believe that's possible without treating all the council members equally. Something to keep in mind is that all of the CSMs including the chairman are accountable to CCP and I'd bet if someone is found to be abusing their role or not filling it well enough, they'd be out on their arse pretty sharpish.

BTW, shouldn't someone at CCP be here to explain everything and guide the new CSMs? Have you all just been left alone with a 13-page PR document wondering what it is you have to do?

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.05.22 23:57:00 - [427]
 

Originally by: Nyphur
Edited by: Nyphur on 22/05/2008 23:47:49
Originally by: Gorobom
You're being really, really delusional. Goons pointed out lot of mistakes in the game and CCP addressed them, just like other major alliances did. Even Goons who aren't in Goonswarm like Nyphur had a huge impact in the game. The same can't be said about Derelik Capital Constructions.

WHO SUMMONS ME TO THIS THREAD? I DEMAND A SAC-RI-FICE


Of the two Goonswarm CSMs, I've only seen one of them "in action" on the forums and that's Bane Glorius. The guy's smart, he has some good ideas and I'm sure he can adapt to fill the role of CSM pretty well. Whether they zerged the votes or not isn't the issue, judge each of them on their own merits and realise that goon or not, you could do a lot worse for CSM representatives than those chosen. A LOT worse.


Initially I thought Jade would make a good chairman but it's starting to look like he's augmenting his role without talking to CCP about it and going on a bit of a power trip. The chairman is not a dictator, I'm pretty sure it's part of his job to ensure the smooth running of the council and I don't believe that's possible without treating all the council members equally. Something to keep in mind is that all of the CSMs including the chairman are accountable to CCP and I'd bet if someone is found to be abusing their role or not filling it well enough, they'd be out on their arse pretty sharpish.

BTW, shouldn't someone at CCP be here to explain everything and guide the new CSMs? Have you all just been left alone with a 13-page PR document wondering what it is you have to do?


I wouldn't worry too much Nyphur, we had a very good informal CSM meeting this evening and have a good plan going forward to the first formal meeting this saturday. Don't read too much into the public forum froth. The council itself has a group of sensible players who seemed to get on pretty well and I foresee us achieving great things in the inaugural session of the CSM.


Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Posted - 2008.05.23 00:18:00 - [428]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine
I wouldn't worry too much Nyphur, we had a very good informal CSM meeting this evening and have a good plan going forward to the first formal meeting this saturday. Don't read too much into the public forum froth. The council itself has a group of sensible players who seemed to get on pretty well and I foresee us achieving great things in the inaugural session of the CSM.

Oh I'm not worried about the quality of your plans for going forth, I'm asking if you're ALLOWED to make plans for going forth. Surely CCP have a plan for how the CSM will take place and being chairman, you must have a contact at CCP to ask questions of. If they haven't given you any explicit instructions on how to move forward and the vote has essentially only just been concluded, are you really expected to just move forward on your own and make up the process as you go along with informal meetings and such? I just don't know if you're getting ahead of yourself or not when the first official meeting (where I assume a CCP rep will be present) hasn't even taken place yet. Can you see where I'm coming from at all? If a CCP rep had said "Hey Jade, have an informal meeting to vote on members positions in the council before Saturday" I'd be a lot less concerned about it.

Of course the other issue I'm concerned about is that you might not be treating the council members impartially but I assume that if that becomes a problem, CCP wouldn't be too happy. I know you can potentially do a good job as chairman and if my advice is worth anything to you, I suggest trying to mellow out a little and not bashing horns with the guys you have to work with. Good luck with the position, anyway. I'll be here in a year's time to steal it off you :).

Skut Farkuss
Posted - 2008.05.23 00:18:00 - [429]
 

Originally by: Skut Farkuss
Originally by: Skut Farkuss
Edited by: Skut Farkuss on 22/05/2008 16:59:36
Edited by: Skut Farkuss on 22/05/2008 16:50:45
Jade, I don't give a damn whether you actually step down or not, but I think we deserve an answer about whether you said you would, and if you did, why you are choosing not to.

I voted for you, though I didn't follow much of the campaigning other than threads.

Thanks!

E: I'm heading off to work, so I'll reply to any replies later, cheers all


Friendly bump for new page


slightly less friendly bump tbqh

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.05.23 00:30:00 - [430]
 

Edited by: Jade Constantine on 23/05/2008 00:32:55

Originally by: Nyphur
Oh I'm not worried about the quality of your plans for going forth, I'm asking if you're ALLOWED to make plans for going forth. Surely CCP have a plan for how the CSM will take place and being chairman, you must have a contact at CCP to ask questions of. If they haven't given you any explicit instructions on how to move forward and the vote has essentially only just been concluded, are you really expected to just move forward on your own and make up the process as you go along with informal meetings and such?


Well we've got the documents, we have some contact with the CCP organizer who will be playing a role in the formal meetings, but largely yes, we are going to be making a lot of this up as we go along and setting down ideas and improvements to rationalize and deliver the whole process. Tonights meeting added some important elements to certain of the roles and closed with a lot of productive discussion on how exactly to make the CSM actually work in its target process of bringing good ideas from the player base to the devs at ccp. I think its likely we'll be addressing a lot of potential loopholes and procedural glitches with the CSM in and of itself in our first term, and to be honest, thats a good thing.

Quote:
I just don't know if you're getting ahead of yourself or not when the first official meeting (where I assume a CCP rep will be present) hasn't even taken place yet. Can you see where I'm coming from at all? If a CCP rep had said "Hey Jade, have an informal meeting to vote on members positions in the council before Saturday" I'd be a lot less concerned about it.


Oh sure, but rest assured we are in contact with CCP and are consulting with the organizers, but some of this stuff we do just have to take a lead on and make it happen. We haven't got months before the Iceland meetings, we've got a few weeks and its really time for us to get busy to make this thing really work.

Quote:
Of course the other issue I'm concerned about is that you might not be treating the council members impartially but I assume that if that becomes a problem, CCP wouldn't be too happy. I know you can potentially do a good job as chairman and if my advice is worth anything to you, I suggest trying to mellow out a little and not bashing horns with the guys you have to work with. Good luck with the position, anyway. I'll be here in a year's time to steal it off you :).


I will be entirely impartial in the role of chairman on all procedural matters and issues of fairness. Time will demonstrate this I expect. Until then yep, probably is sensible to mellow a little on the temperature of some of the exchanges with particularly energetic members of goonswarm in particular. End of the day the election is done and now we need to make the process of the CSM work correctly. And if at the end of our term we've achieved that it'll stand as our legacy and memorial to a job well done.

All the best.



Waterfowl Democracy
The Ministry of Indigenous Affairs
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.05.23 02:00:00 - [431]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine

I will be entirely impartial in the role of chairman on all procedural matters and issues of fairness. Time will demonstrate this I expect.



You have already demonstrated a divisive and destructive stance as Chair and we are only days into the process. Your very first action was to thank and welcome your particular croneys to the CSM and ignore any of the Reps who has had an independant thought. Your second action was to reverse your previous statement about resigned as Chair and putting it up for a vote. Your third action was to attempt to bully a CSM member into showing up for an "informal" meeting at almost no notice, you even threatened him with disenfranchisement.

And throughout it all you've failed to respond to any post full of valid complaints about your conduct.

Well done Jade, you have personally done more to destroy the CSM process than any large alliance could dream of.

I fully expect that you will ignore this post or quote it and then write 500 words that don't actually say anything and it's mainly been written for OTHERS to read.

Hope this helps.

Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Posted - 2008.05.23 02:44:00 - [432]
 

Looks like it's time to test out those mellow dampeners, Jade. Laughing

Angelus Damelon
Posted - 2008.05.23 02:49:00 - [433]
 

Originally by: Curzon Dax
You don't believe in live and let live. You don't bring anything to a conversation or debate. There is no such thing as "mutual respect" in a Goon's vocabulary.


Very disappointing to see you, of all people, echoing this statement, Curzon. You encountered numerous Goons (including myself) in Eve Online Hold'em during your time as manager. I was aware of your disillusionment of many individuals within Goonswarm, but I was never aware that, in your opinion, I "brought nothing to a conversation" or that there was "no such thing as mutual respect" in my vocabulary.

Outside the political theatre of CAOD, many Goons have demonstrated intelligent and good faith efforts to improve the game, the player experience, and have otherwise gotten along quite well with many non-Goons on several occasions, in-game and out.

It's disappointing to see that you've settled on the easier path of writing any and every Goon off in any and every way.

It's much more difficult to admit that someone can belong to a group and still disapprove of the actions of some within that group.

It's difficult to admit that someone can belong to a group and neither approve or disapprove of the actions of some within that group.

It's even more difficult to admit that someone can belong to a group and even participate in some of that group's actions (such as those which are within well-established mechanics that CCP has repeatedly declined to change, such as suicide ganking or scamming), but still take the health of the game as a whole very seriously.

At no point, either in internal Goonswarm discussions or in public statements, have I personally seen any sign that Darius or Bane take the CSM as a way to screw with the players of Eve, or as a lever for personal Goonswarm gain. Neither have I seen that suggested by any serious number of Goonswarm members; most either take it seriously as well, or assume that it will be a toothless, ineffectual, worthless program.

In all, Curzon, it's a shame to hear that you've dismissed all Goons in all situations -- whether it's myself or the two CSM candidates.

Keorythe
Caldari
Terra Rosa Militia
Posted - 2008.05.23 03:39:00 - [434]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine
I will be entirely impartial in the role of chairman on all procedural matters and issues of fairness. Time will demonstrate this I expect.


Jade, you have never been impartial or fair. To believe that you will do so now is truly a farce. As with anything else the first and foremost thing we will see is the push for the betterment of your alliances goals with which you will claim is what everyone else wants.

I tried to come at this with an open mind but so far I have been largely unimpressed and my old opinions were simply reinforced. The drama queens voted you into office and now its going to bite them in the rear along with the rest of us.

Dani Leone
Gallente
Positively Idle
Posted - 2008.05.23 08:11:00 - [435]
 

Originally by: Keorythe
Originally by: Jade Constantine
I will be entirely impartial in the role of chairman on all procedural matters and issues of fairness. Time will demonstrate this I expect.


Jade, you have never been impartial or fair. To believe that you will do so now is truly a farce. As with anything else the first and foremost thing we will see is the push for the betterment of your alliances goals with which you will claim is what everyone else wants.

I tried to come at this with an open mind but so far I have been largely unimpressed and my old opinions were simply reinforced. The drama queens voted you into office and now its going to bite them in the rear along with the rest of us.


I think that to be fair Keorythe, Jade has certainly not been elected to chairman soley by the vote of her own alliance and the views she put forward to get elected are what got her the votes she got.
And I seem to see that what Jade wrote there is she would be impartial on all 'procedural matters and issues of fairness.'
You appear to be worried that this means that Jade might actually try to put her views on in game mechanics and the general direction of Eve across and argue strongly for her point of view.

As someone who voted for Jade I'd expect those views to be pushed with as much force as possible, even if I expect that most of them will prove unachievable.

Just as I would expect that Waterfowl and his Goon associates will probably want to get the same from their own candidates same with those who voted for Hardin, Serenity, Ankesentapemkah and the others. I doubt that Jade can force the other 8 candidates to vote for things they believe would be damaging to the game and chair or not its down to the council, not just one person, to decide what gets put to CCP and what doesn't.

As for describing those of us who voted for Jade as Drama Queens after that little emo outburst from you ...

Just because one person you don't happen to like, for whatever good or bad reasons, got elected is no reason to judge the whole CSM a failure before it has even had it's first meeting. It's not time for Chicken Little antics yet.

A final thought, next time there is an election make sure you vote and get your friends to vote for someone who represents you, or maybe you should stand and galvanize us all with your far seeing and exciting vision for the future of Eve, instead of picking at a representative who has been elected by people who happen to like her vision for the game.

Octavinus Augustus
Amarr
Auctoritan Syndicate
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2008.05.23 09:58:00 - [436]
 

I have been thinking for some time about wether posting this will actually prove in any way constructive, or wether it will simply fuel the flame wars going on. I have decided however (being naive) that I will give it the benefit of the doubt and post.

I personally think that it is not a good thing that Jade is chairman of CSM - although not for any of the reasons I have seen posted so far (and probably not for the reasons most of you imagine by now).

I think it is fair to say that Jade is probably the CSM member with the most radical ideas on the future of EvE. Let's start out with removing local, cyno jammers and jump bridges just to give some examples.

While I do not agree with a lot of the issues Jade will be running with, I do believe it is a sign of health to have representatives in CSM presenting radical ideas and challenging the council (and thus CCP) to keep on their toes and think creatively. In my opinion this is exactly what probably most of those who voted for Jade wants her to do. I wish her the best of luck with that.

As the chairman of CSM however, it is now also part of Jades job to "moderate meetings" which I read as "keeping the peace" and make sure that meetings are productive and in good tone.

The problem lies in the fact that presenting new and radical ideas will often be perceived as provocatory by many. So Jade will naturally have to curtail many of her ideas in order to do her job as chairman.

In other words, Jade will have to make a choice of wether to do the job she was elected to do (presenting radical new ideas, pushing HARD for changes) or to do her job as chairman. Choosing to do one of them will mean that Jade will be practically bound to fail in the other.

I believe that if Jade pushes forward with her radical agenda, it should by now be obvious to all that a CSM under Jades leaderhsip will be met with a lot of accusations about her misusing her position. It doesn't really matter wether those accusations are just or not - they will serve to undermine CSM's authority regardless.

So there it is: I believe that if Jade as chairman tries to push for the radical agendas she was elected to push for, she will be accused of "bullying through" her visions and CSM will grind to a standstill in recriminations and smacktalk.

I believe that Jade, as the controversial person she undoubtedly is, would be better able to fight for her ideals as a "common" member of CSM rather than as its chairman.

So my advice to Jade would be this: Get the CSM group formed up and then step down as chairman before the work on game design ideas begin in earnest.

Now, I realise that this post will most likely fuel the desires of untold numbers of smackartists out there to renew their little "campaign". My advice to these people would be: Crawl back under your rocks - Jade was elected to a position as a CSM member and as it's chairman. To stay or go is her choice alone.

And for those of you out there who might feel the need to paint this as a CVA attack on SF or something similar, just forget it. This post is a recap of my personal thoughts on the topic and may or may not be shared by others in CVA as they may or may not be shared by anyone else.

AltBier
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.05.23 10:00:00 - [437]
 

I think the funniest Goon comment in this political spin fest was this (talking about Jade):

Originally by: Vio Geraci
Perhaps because you are not from a democracy ...


Laughing

Christy Walton
Caldari
Bloodveil
Posted - 2008.05.23 12:36:00 - [438]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine
I will be entirely impartial in the role of chairman on all procedural matters and issues of fairness. Time will demonstrate this I expect.


I'm yet to read something more absurd. Rolling Eyes


Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.05.23 12:53:00 - [439]
 

Originally by: Sariyah
Originally by: Jade Constantine
murder and mayhem in space

That's Eve. YARRRR!! Congrats for the big chair.


Damn straight and thank you very much Sariyah! Its already pretty exciting, just like FC'ing in hostile territory in some respects Cool

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.05.23 12:54:00 - [440]
 

Originally by: Kelsin
Congratulations Jade!


/me high-fives Kelsin!

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.05.23 12:56:00 - [441]
 

Originally by: RU Sirius

Are you, perchance, slightly bitter? I didn't vote for Jade but am still a welcome member of The Star Fraction (until they kick me tomorrow). we are as free as we believe ourselves to be.



Yep, the only thing I asked of Star Fraction people was to become informed on the various platforms and to vote with their conscience. To be honest I probably would have booted out a pilot for "not caring enough to vote" but voting for somebody else is just fine Very Happy




Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.05.23 12:57:00 - [442]
 

Originally by: Cassiuss
Congrats Jade, Make us proud.



Thats the plan! (love your sig btw) its a brilliant revolutionary outcome thats for sure!

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.05.23 12:59:00 - [443]
 

Originally by: Reverend Wreckedum
Congrats, Jade.
Fortunately, it looks like people did their homework as Goumindong didn't even get a significant number of votes.
Looks like EVE is safe for the moment.



Yep I think its a great defining moment for Eve's collective good-sense. Nice to know we've still got a substantial number of mature and sensible people out there who nonetheless dare to dream of a better game!

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.05.23 13:00:00 - [444]
 

Originally by: Xofii

Gratz Jade, I dont agree with your rethorics but I do agree with parts of your vision, I hope you take pause to breath during the meetings and listen to your fellow council men/women.
Cheers Xo


Oh don't worry, as the Chair I've got a responsibility now to make sure Everyone gets a say in the meetings. To be honest its probably a good thing for the process I ended up winning rather than making speeches from the floor Cool

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.05.23 13:01:00 - [445]
 

Originally by: Revan Neferis

*winks

Always listen to a woman dear. Now, time to celebrations.
Will give you my congratulations in a more private venue Twisted Evil

I'm proud of you love. Success!


*grins* Got to say, success is always sexy Cool


Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.05.23 13:02:00 - [446]
 

Originally by: Serenity Steele
Congratulations on the Chairmanship Jade!



Thank you Serenity! Much appreciated, now lets change the world Very Happy

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.05.23 13:07:00 - [447]
 

Originally by: Kayscha
Well, it seems you made Chairwoman, congrats.
I trust you are aware of this added responsibility and will not squander it lightly with ad hominem attacks and the pursuit of personal differences with other representatives.


Well you know, I don't really believe in the categorization of "ad hominem" attacks, especially not on an internet forum where even accusing ad hominem becomes ad hominem and disappears up its own paradox more often than not. But I take your point, a certain degree of respect is going to be neccessary between CSM reps and thats something everyone is going to have to remember at all times.

Quote:
You of all CSM members will be least able to play favourites and push your own agenda lest this council is to fail before ever having assembled. (Forgive my skepticism. It has been an emotional fortnight. ;) )


Well there is a difference betwene the procedural duties of the Chair and the voting power of the CSM rep - these things aren't contradictory and its fairly easy to act with fairness and balance with a little maturity and good sense.

Time will tell, but thanks for your congratulations! Much appreciated.


Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.05.23 13:09:00 - [448]
 

Originally by: Hermia
Never thought in a million years jade would get the chair, what a pleasant supprise.
Ofcourse this means that the majority of players actually agree with jades position and THAT is very promising indeed.
Nice one jade, excellent campaign


It was a surprise to me too - I felt it was an epic task to overcome the voting blocks of the biggest powers but its a testament to the vision and bravery of the eve player base that they decided to vote for a progressive agenda over the safer conservative options on offer. Very impressive, I'm really in awe of the player base right now.

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.05.23 13:10:00 - [449]
 

Originally by: Tainted OrPHeN
Edited by: Tainted OrPHeN on 22/05/2008 00:26:06
Grats Jade. Although I knew you would get on the CSM, I didn't know if you would become chair person or not but I'm happy you are and hope all goes well in Iceland.
<3 Taint


It was pretty amazing! I'm still really impressed by the whole thing. Superb support from so many angles and voices, it convinces me that Eve is pretty ready for progressive agendas and bold new ideas!

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.05.23 13:12:00 - [450]
 

Originally by: Al'Gouhti
Hasta la victoria siempre

congratulation

Al'



Freedom and Glory! Forever, Until Victory! And yes I think the ghost of Ché" Guevara was with us these last weeks.




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