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ArmyOfMe
Hysera.
Posted - 2008.04.28 19:39:00 - [1]
 

Any chance the csm candidates could post there views on removing local as thats one of the crucial things for me and a lot of others when it comes to desiding who to vote for

Evil Edna
Jian Products Engineering Group
Atlas.
Posted - 2008.04.28 19:57:00 - [2]
 

you understand they arnt being elected as devs to decide on this kinda stuff yea?

Arithron
Gallente
Gallente Trade Alliance
Posted - 2008.04.28 20:38:00 - [3]
 

My view on removing local: Don't...its been fine for years!

Some nice ideas have come up in other threads regarding some possible changes that would enhance local for some different types of players (eg, war parties). However, my feeling is that local in empire (where 80% of the player base is) is fine the way it is. Afterall, it doesn't tell you much except who is in system...their locations are still for interested parties to discover. I have read some funny posts regarding local, e.g. some players watch local and logoff when they see aggressors entering! So what, they didn't want you to shoot their mining barge up, so you can get your name on a killboard somewhere?

Changes in 0.0 space could have merit, although it would need some careful thought about exactly what changes to make (if possible to change local for just one security status). This might be a good discussion on a CSM topic forum. Any decision taken by the CSM council would still have to convinve the CCP devs.

Anyway, there's my 2 isk's worth.

Take care,
Bruce Hansen

Kelsin
Dirt Dog Trading Company
Posted - 2008.04.28 22:07:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Evil Edna
you understand they arnt being elected as devs to decide on this kinda stuff yea?


But the CSM will have a direct line to the Devs and the ability to bring issues to them for CCP to address/respond to.

There has been much discussion of the Local channel on the forums, and only a few vague hints from the devs about their plans for it. The CSM would be able to directly raise the issue and make recommendations that CCP would respond to with direct feedback on the concerns raised.

Hence, these sorts of issues are important because it will be the elected Council members who vote to decide what issues will be raised and which will be left alone.

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.04.28 22:41:00 - [5]
 



CSM Discussion - Local Chat Removal

Links to a discussion thread I authored on the subject. Short answer is I think local needs to go in 0.0 for sure and needs serious attention in lowsec. It is important we get significant upgrades to scanner functionality and ease of use at the same time though. As part of the same discussion I believe most commonly available map intel needs to be removed from 0.0 also. (kills, pilots in space, npc ships eaten) that kind of thing.


MongWen
Xeno Tech Corp
Self Destruct.
Posted - 2008.04.28 23:00:00 - [6]
 

Delicate matter, I donít think that local should be removed form all of eve, and I do know that it is a powerful Intel tool.

High Sec: as it is today, since it is way to easy communicating with people that live in that area of space, and itís a way to encourage socializing with others.
Low sec: only shows recent talkers (same as alliance and other public channels).
No sec: No local at all, but that depends on more/better functions added to the local scanner and/or by other means.

And I do agree with Jade that with the removal of local in no sec, other forms of Intel given by the map should be removed as well. So it can fit into the risk vs. reward in 0.0.

Zanpt
Caldari
Posted - 2008.04.29 11:28:00 - [7]
 

Remove Local anywhere, in any way, and tons of people will find it much less worthwhile to participate in Eve. It's the pirates and griefers who want to nerf or remove Local, but if that happens, the game will devolve to where there are only pirates and griefers and newbs. As the newbs get popped and podkilled to satisfy senseless and pointless killboards, they will leave. The pirates and griefers think Eve is an arcade game. It isn't.

Spoon Thumb
Khanid Provincial Vanguard
Vanguard Imperium
Posted - 2008.04.29 12:24:00 - [8]
 


I'm concerned far more about the social impact of losing local than any intel stuff or otherwise.

How do candidates suggest this is accounted for if local is removed from 0.0, especially considering how empty 0.0 can be already for people looking for social interactions as well as pvp?

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2008.04.29 16:18:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Spoon Thumb

I'm concerned far more about the social impact of losing local than any intel stuff or otherwise.

How do candidates suggest this is accounted for if local is removed from 0.0, especially considering how empty 0.0 can be already for people looking for social interactions as well as pvp?



When people suggest removing local they do not suggest removing the chat functionality, only the intelligence functionality.

For a good discussion regarding this see posts 38-65 of this thread

And my responses in This Thread

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2008.04.29 16:19:00 - [10]
 

I really can't add anything to this post. Jade hits the nail right on the head, as i see it.

Nickaelhoop
Minmatar
Concordance Extraction Corporation
Posted - 2008.04.29 16:31:00 - [11]
 

My opinion is that local should stay no matter what security status you are in/based in.

It is a great social tool and, as many people have commented, a simple intelligence tool for those that are paranoid.

Hamfast
Gallente
Posted - 2008.04.29 20:54:00 - [12]
 

For those of you that feel Local should go away (based on security level or something else)...

Would you be ok with Local staying if it was less efficient?
(If local acted like the Noob Help channel and only listed those that "Used" it and only maintained track of those that do a set group of actions like "Within XX KM of a gate or station", Speak in local and so on)

zoolkhan
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2008.04.30 08:53:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: ArmyOfMe
Any chance the csm candidates could post there views on removing local as thats one of the crucial things for me and a lot of others when it comes to desiding who to vote for

removing local takes away the chance to communicate

- no ransom
- no begging for mercy
- no warning ("this is a warzone, leave while you can"), no roleplay (thats a major for me)
- no friendly or unfriendly interaction with people in the same sector
- no cries for help, or offers of companionship from random folks in local
- no <insert more reasons here in random order>

on the first thought i see a lot of "no"s there.

May those who favor it explain their reasoning here.

One could argue if it should be allowed to display standing flags or no,
or if we all should go to a constellation wide channel and really remove local

but just removing it w/o showing a good alternative to compensate the "no"-list above
seems to be pretty pointless. I am also not convinced of the fact that this would gain the player base support - each of the CSMs is supposed to represent _ALL_ player base to his best effort.



Demos Colodan
101st Space Brigade - Wings of Destiny
Utterly Harmless
Posted - 2008.04.30 09:15:00 - [14]
 

I totally agree with zoo...

For me, the local chan is sth like the social basic principle and basis for everyone to start/get association. I guess there is really no need to work on this issue.

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2008.04.30 09:29:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Demos Colodan
I totally agree with zoo...

For me, the local chan is sth like the social basic principle and basis for everyone to start/get association. I guess there is really no need to work on this issue.

I think you got it a bit wrong. It's not a question of COMPLETELY removing local. Local should still be there for social interaction, but not for intel gathering. As such, local should be delayed.

Demos Colodan
101st Space Brigade - Wings of Destiny
Utterly Harmless
Posted - 2008.04.30 09:43:00 - [16]
 

My fault... I should not read, write on laptop and listen the statistic lecture

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2008.04.30 09:50:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Demos Colodan
My fault... I should not read, write on laptop and listen the statistic lecture

Hehe, i make that mistake too often.

Good thing Visual Arts class is about to start. Then i force myself to turn off the laptop, so that it doesn't get dirty. Laughing

zoolkhan
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2008.04.30 10:00:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: zoolkhan on 30/04/2008 10:02:09
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Local should still be there for social interaction, but not for intel gathering. As such, local should be delayed.


Ok, that reduces my NO-List to some extend

however, may i dare to ask whom a CSM should represent more?

the pirate who can kill the ratter much easier? or the pirate that wont find targets anymore, because ratters now rat in hordes, or in PVP ready vessels forced by such a change Wink

Is this matter of major concern to other players who are not in the YARRdepartment?

What is the miners & ratters opinion on this? Could you live with such a change?

What consequencies will it have on alliance holding space, not able to tell who moves around in their turf. Intel channels becoming obsolete, unless visual ro scanner contact can be made
on trespassing hordes.

It is an iteresting topic indeed, i personally could life with whatever the outcome is
but is that what the majority wants?

Bane Glorious
Ministry of War
Posted - 2008.04.30 18:23:00 - [19]
 

In short:

I would like it if local chat wasn't as useful as an intel tool in the way it is now, but I haven't seen a replacement for it that I can really feel comfortable with. I'd love to see it gone, but it is hard to predict what effects a new system could have on small gang, fleet, and roaming pvp, as well as blobbing. It's very touchy.

Hardin
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2008.04.30 18:27:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Bane Glorious
In short:

I would like it if local chat wasn't as useful as an intel tool in the way it is now, but I haven't seen a replacement for it that I can really feel comfortable with. I'd love to see it gone, but it is hard to predict what effects a new system could have on small gang, fleet, and roaming pvp, as well as blobbing. It's very touchy.


Yep - I said pretty much the same thing on my own [CSM] page...


Gritt Pebbledasher
PURE Legion
Pure.
Posted - 2008.04.30 18:42:00 - [21]
 

I think that for Empire space, local should remain. Call it a Concord service or whatever. That said, I think it should be removed in 0.0 (*cough*, no Concord) or at least be at the discretion of the entity who holds sovereignty.

What particularly interests me is the impact of having a 'local' on lag in busy systems...


 

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