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Viceroy
Posted - 2004.04.22 22:29:00 - [1]
 

Its impossible right? No point, too much effort, not enough tools, no efficent bounty system for payout etc.

Yea you're right, but its not impossible. Its just very hard. And here are a few changes that'll make it a little easier.

Change The Payout System: Make the bounty system resemble the escrow system, so you can set bounties for certain individuals. This way bounties cant kill themselves to gain your hard earned isk. You can just place a bounty on a person and set it so only the person you want can claim it, or only the corporation you want, or only a group of people you want, or maybe only pilots that have a better security rating than X. Reputable bounty hunters would be placed into the bounty lists of rich clients, and they'd compete with eachother as well. This way the current disfunctional bounty system would start working.

Better Location Services: Lets not kid ourselves, finding people is a pain. Yes agents are nice, you can find the one time location of a person. But unless he's offline, you have a very small chance of actually catching him, since he'll be 9375 jumps away when you get there. Then you have to travel Y jumps back to the ass end of nowhere to ask your agent again, so he can run away by the time you get there again... The location service is crap, and useless for bounty hunters.

So Viceroy, you say, you whine a lot and you are bald, but what do you suggest?

I suggest make advanced location services avaliable from Concord (Aka avaliable to people with high sec status), or replace the current location system with the new system that works like this;

Viceroy gets a bounty for a Carebear, but Viceroy has no idea where Carebear is. He goes to his agent Takikioschi Okiato Makochumato and asks, but Taki-san can only give a current location on a constantly moving target (The Carebear has heard rumours that Viceroy is after him), so he's useless. Thus Viceroy goes to his Uncle ****ula, who, for a good cost, places a tracking becon on the Carebear, making his location avaliable on the map for X hours (If this system is to be based on ISK only, I suggest that agents charge hourly, and like 5x more for every hour after the first, making it horribly expensive after a few hours of tracking, and you can only use this ability once every 24 hours, AND X is limited to your standing with the agent. If it is to be based on Concord standing, then your sec status should define X, so if you have +2, you can track someone for 2 -maybe more- hours or something like that. But since SS is based on stupid NPC pirate killing, this is a bad idea.)

This way Viceroy can see where the Carebear is for X hours, and goes hunting for him. Being l33t and having an electronic parrot Viceroy podkills the Carebear and his bounty is paid to him via the new improved bounty service, that disallowes self-claiming. Happy, Viceroy returns home.

Also note that for this system to be effective manuel-refreshing for the map must be implemented.

Hmm, I'd thought of some more things but i think i forgot Neutral

Feel free to state opinions, flame, troll etc.

Jadrut
Minmatar
The KUM
Posted - 2004.04.22 22:39:00 - [2]
 

Those ideas sound good to me

Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2004.04.22 22:41:00 - [3]
 

All hail uncle shi-tula !!

Joshua Calvert
Caldari
Rule One
Posted - 2004.04.22 22:56:00 - [4]
 

The whole "can use the advanced location services if you have a high SR" is wrong.

Bounty hunters are bound to have to hit non-war enemies and take security rating hits.

Falhofnir
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2004.04.22 23:03:00 - [5]
 

good ideas.
papasmurf said something liek this was gonna be there with lvl 4 agents.

Enraku Reynolt
Minmatar
Navy of Xoc
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2004.04.22 23:05:00 - [6]
 

well, have it so you can register as a bounty hunter
but there should be a limit, say below -2.0 cant register
but if resistered, you have access to the bounty collection system suggested by Vic
AND, it makes it possable fo people to be tracked in EMpire
and when the black market is added, it should be poss able to have bounties placed on high sec people to arrange assassinations
AND last , bounties ONLY show if your a regestered bounty hunter or an listed assassin

KIAHicks
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
KenZoku
Posted - 2004.04.22 23:33:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: KIAHicks on 22/04/2004 23:35:05
We all know the bounty system is flawed as it is and I like your ideas. It would also be useful if the escrow system allows you to specify the minimum damage required before payout is made.

For example I could place a bounty of player XYZ of 30mil but say that in order to claim this bounty you must destroy and pod kill 2 or more battleships of player XYZ.

That way you don't have to payout on a lucky frigate or shuttle kill, unless you really don't mind what the pilots podded in.

If you get a list of "bounty hunters" that have applied for your "contract" then you could select which ones are allowed to access the escrow on compleation of the kill. The ability to accept multiple hunters would help provide competition :)

Also the tracking beacon would be cool, tie it to a skill with specialisations that allow you to track for longer and at cheaper costs. Then you have the possbility of a few specialised bloodhounds hunting people :)

ElRodeo
Gallente
Posted - 2004.04.22 23:51:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: ElRodeo on 22/04/2004 23:55:46
Originally by: Viceroy
So Viceroy, you say, you whine a lot and you are bald, but what do you suggest?


.. lol Laughing

Glad to see that nothing is totally serious with you...
it wouldnt be right...Shocked

Some wood for the fire..
Perhaps making the service time/money scale based on personal standing with the agent.
Also the agent should have a harder time tracking someone in space that is not fond of them .. and vice versa, which goes towards determining the costs.
perhaps any information required on a person enables a sort of agent mission, where as upon the destruction of the assailant, the personal standing with the agent goes up a little. Hell if your clients perform well and give you (the agent) a better name.. give em a lil discount maybe.
Perhaps also as a person moves about and you are informed of their new locations, the cost for continued monitoring would be updated, based on the agents 'ease' of data collection on the target (the vice versa bit above).

hell maybe you could go all upside down and implement a sort of portable Bounty-Net device (an extra window?) that charges you more for using it further away from the agent that is contracting it to you.. good reliable bandwidth over extreme distances is golddust these days you know Wink

also small extra options like, no. of members in gang, previous travel and possibly some mild data on their current ship.. class,name,health for example.
make these options increasingly expensive.
the more expensive the service is the less likely it is to be used, which is good.
This way only a MAJORLY annoyed corp/person will ever get good detailed information on the target, and will pay through the nose for it and even more so as time progresses.

Thanks for reading
good ideas keep em rolling Wink

Edited for easy reading

Managalar
Gallente
PREMM Technologies
TRE GAFFEL
Posted - 2004.04.22 23:58:00 - [9]
 

good ideas...maybe a line of tracking drones (new skills) would be in order

Skelator
Stronghold corp
CORPVS DELICTI
Posted - 2004.04.23 00:02:00 - [10]
 

The Escrow system is a Excellent Idea Viceroy Major Kudos for thinking it up!!

And to think I almost opened fire on your Thorax in Obe almost a year ago Because you were Only the second person with a bounty I had ever faced (Up to that point of the game)
To bad you couldnt be on the advisement committee

Regards Very Happy


DB Preacher
Reikoku
KenZoku
Posted - 2004.04.23 00:06:00 - [11]
 

Yeah the bounty hunting system is currently crap.

These would be definite improvements in that area.

Don't ya just love wise, sexy, bald men?

dbp

SKiNNiEH
Posted - 2004.04.23 00:37:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: SKiNNiEH on 23/04/2004 00:43:08
Excellent points there Vice.

My thoughts...

Change the payout system:
Yes, this is the way to go...

But i'd like to see some sort of score-system in this, much like evolving from a level 1 agent to a level 2 agent.

Example:

A. Bountyhunter levels: 1 - 5
B. Advance a level everytime you go past 4000 points

1. Bounty on target is 3 mil = 300 points
2. Target destroyed in 0.0 = 100 points
3. Target destroyed in Empire = 200 points
4. Target destroyed had BS = 300 points
5. Target destroyed had Cruiser = 200 points
6. Target Destroyed had Frigate = 100 points
7. Target podded within timeframe = 250 points
8. Target is from same corporation = -2000 points

Scenario:
Now, lets say a contract is out on Viceroy for 1.5mil, made by Lord Zap. I'm just beginning my bountyhunter carreer, so i have 0 points. I take the contract (it has a 7 day timeout) and 3 days later i destroy Viceroy's Thorax and pod in a 0.3 system. I deliver the corpse to the same place as where i took the contract and press the button "mission completed". The corpse leaves my hangar or cargohold and i get the bounty of 1.5mil isk. I also get the following score:

150 points for 1.5mil bounty set
200 points for kill in Empire space
200 points for killing him in a cruiser
250 points for completing the contract on time
---
800 points gained

Five more of these "contracts" and i advance myself to being a level 2 bountyhunter... Other, more dangerous (also playermade) missions become available. Perhaps contracts that contain 2 people from the same corporation, or contracts that has a bounty above 5mil. Maybe a "level 3" contract can be performed by one level 2 and one level 1 bountyhunter.

This is just a thought ofcourse and probably flawed to hell and back, but for the sake of the discussion...

In any case, some sort of proving system should be implemented, because you wouldn't want some newbie doing your grade-A contract.

Better location services:

The way i see it, it should be taken from the npc environment and into the pvp environment.

Another example:
Viceroy wants to know where Lord Zap is and he decides to spend 3mil on finding him. He sets his (yet to be implemented) snitch-tool to:

1. Person to find: Lord Zap
2. maximum of: 3mil
3. snitch action: 200k isk (per snitch)

Scenario:
So, here i am flying my iteron and i see a pulsating bracket (Bracket coloring remains the same, be it corp, gang or whatever) instead of a fixed bracket. I know a pulsating bracket means that someone is trying to know his whereabouts, so i right-click on Lord Zap and i select from the menu: "Snitch (200,000.00)" (which is only available when a bracket is pulsating).

Viceroy promptly receives an EVE-mail with LZ's location (e.g. FD-MLJ, Belt VI - 1) and i get 200k isk in my wallet. 2 systems further, Lord Zap encounters someone else and Viceroy recieves yet another EVE-mail with his exact location, 200k deposited into the wallet of the one that snitched. Now Viceroy has 2.6mil left in his "snitch wallet" or whatever it would be called.

Once someone has snitched on a person, the bracket (what gives away the "snitch" option) will stop pulsating for 5 minutes and only after 5mins will someone be able to snitch again. This is to prevent possible exploiting and ofcourse, 5 minute intervals will give the one searching for his target a nice history of where he/she might be going.

E.g. "hmm look.. EVE-mail at location A.. another EVE-mail at location B... he MUST be going for location C"

The fun thing about this: If the price is high enough... even his buddies might snitch on him. Or could it be a trap? :)
-------

Okay.. as both these things are hard to write down, all i have blabbed on about above might make no sence at all.. but for the sake of the discussion, let me know what you think :)

Mitchello
B O R G
Posted - 2004.04.23 03:41:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: DB Preacher
Yeah the bounty hunting system is currently crap.

These would be definite improvements in that area.

Don't ya just love wise, sexy, bald men?

dbp


yes..yes i doCool

Hquesinovium
Caldari
Mercurialis Inc.
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2004.04.23 04:30:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Managalar
good ideas...maybe a line of tracking drones (new skills) would be in order


I think your onto something there, maybe not for just bounty hunting though, also for wars..... Wink

DigitalCommunist
November Corporation
Posted - 2004.04.23 04:40:00 - [15]
 

I find it funny that the devs don't recognize bounty hunting as a legitimate profession, only one that players role played up, and yet the crime and punishment forum is for "bounty hunters and their prey".

GG.

I gave a shot at the whole bounty hunting thing for a long time, and in some cases I still do, but there is absolutely no isk to be had in it, has a ton of risks and can be very frustrating most of the time. But no, its not impossible..

The current way things are structured, the best you can do is hire out your services as a merc and declare war on said corp that pirate belongs to, then have like 5 people running agent scans constantly to track him/her

These ideas are good, but they are not new, perhaps the tracking thing is.. but it all rests in the hands of CCP and how they handle it. They included a bounty system on players but dont think bounty hunting is a legitimate money-making proffession Neutral

how far they go with it remains too be seen

Tobruk
ElitistOps
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2004.04.23 04:52:00 - [16]
 

just do it; sticky

Bobby Wilson
Gallente
Posted - 2004.04.23 06:29:00 - [17]
 

Yeah, this idea needs to go straight to a Dev's desk. Anyone want to translate it to Icelandic?

Ah, and do add in Hick's idea. It has to be a decent ship you get her/him in to be a decent bounty.

BW

Viceroy
Posted - 2004.04.23 07:01:00 - [18]
 

Well the main problem with bounty hunting is that if you make "kill-based", as in giving a bounty hunter sec boosts every time he kills a target, it can be abused by an alt or friend of a potential bounty, who can elevate himself to the position of th emost "feared" bounty hunter in the universe just by asking his bounty buddy to come out and die to him over and over. This way a "point based" (aka SS based) bounty system would be very abusable.

Imo killing PC bounties should give you a significant sec boost, but it should be based on the amount of SP the PC has and once you kill someone, there should be a timer that prevents you from getting another sec boost for a week or something. Even this makes it pretty abusable imo.

Also I agree that sec rating based bounty hunting would be crap, since sec rating has little to do with bounty hunting and more to do with farming capabilities. But as I said, anything that involves killing PCs to get sec boost is simply abusable.

SKiNNiEH
Posted - 2004.04.23 07:17:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: SKiNNiEH on 23/04/2004 07:23:17
Originally by: Viceroy
Well the main problem with bounty hunting is that if you make "kill-based", as in giving a bounty hunter sec boosts every time he kills a target, it can be abused by an alt or friend of a potential bounty, who can elevate himself to the position of th emost "feared" bounty hunter in the universe just by asking his bounty buddy to come out and die to him over and over. This way a "point based" (aka SS based) bounty system would be very abusable.

Imo killing PC bounties should give you a significant sec boost, but it should be based on the amount of SP the PC has and once you kill someone, there should be a timer that prevents you from getting another sec boost for a week or something. Even this makes it pretty abusable imo.

Also I agree that sec rating based bounty hunting would be crap, since sec rating has little to do with bounty hunting and more to do with farming capabilities. But as I said, anything that involves killing PCs to get sec boost is simply abusable.


Well the way i envision it is that it is a contract... Which has to be mutually agreed upon, or signed if you will. The score-system i talked about prevents newbie's from requesting the good contracts (the one that put out the contract only receives offers from level 3+ bounty hunters if it is a level 3 contract).

You're right about faking contracts to boost secrating/score though. The thing that comes to mind to counteract this, is a requestable history of the person that wants your contract.

If 10 kills on little frigates in one day are shown in that history, you know somethings not right. To be sure that your bountyhunter is as good as he/she says he is, you might want to look in that history for Battleship kills.

EDIT: Also, your timer idea should be implemented too. I think a history and timer combined should counteract faking enough. Now i'm late for work again due to these damned forums :P I'll check back here when i'm there.

pHASE 11
Posted - 2004.04.23 08:11:00 - [20]
 

Devs, Polaris: sticky for this much needed feature in eve that would definitely make the game better?

Maybe I don't agree in all details, maybe there should be some tweaking done but eve do need working bounty-hunter functionality.


Shadowthrone
Caldari
Celestial Apocalypse
Posted - 2004.04.23 09:32:00 - [21]
 

There are some interesting thoughts on bounty hunting here. But no matter what way you set up the bounty system, the potential for exploit is always there. The most reputable bounty hunter corp could be in cahhots with its prey an "always getting a kill" could mean he paid his victim half.

The problem with bounty hunting is only partly the bounty system. Even with an upgraded agent, and you were able to accurately find your prey, it would not help u find their safe spot, prevent them from logging off, or staying docked. Only the unskilled would get killed.( black op frigates will help here)

The problem with bounty hunting has always been few targets, whereas pirates always have lots of targets.

Anyway it only seems to be in EVE that bounty hunters are seen as "good guys" every other fictional space universe they are see as nasty scum who will stoop to whatever lengths to get their kills, so i dont think sec status is realy that important.

ClarCE
Terran Robotics
Posted - 2004.04.23 12:32:00 - [22]
 

I like both roys idea and the points system that was posted, definately should be stickied, or maybe put in the suggestions forum, don't know if that ever gets looked at though..

Ganza
Posted - 2004.04.23 13:46:00 - [23]
 

Your idea is an exploiters dream....

I fire up my alt put a 1 isk bounty on my victim, login in main. I can now track and kill anyone i like and the victim can do nothing about it.

Jarjar
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2004.04.23 13:56:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Ganza
Your idea is an exploiters dream....

I fire up my alt put a 1 isk bounty on my victim, login in main. I can now track and kill anyone i like and the victim can do nothing about it.


Read again.

Blacklight
Reikoku
IT Alliance
Posted - 2004.04.24 01:23:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: pHASE 11
Devs, Polaris: sticky for this much needed feature in eve that would definitely make the game better?

Maybe I don't agree in all details, maybe there should be some tweaking done but eve do need working bounty-hunter functionality.


pHASE what are you doing in the forums? Get back in the lab and research us an electronic tracking device so we can kill ebil people more easily.

Good idea Viceroy, a feature similar to this would indeed be awesome-tastic.


Berilac
Amarr
Northern Intelligence
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2004.04.24 21:25:00 - [26]
 

Mabye you could get a ammo that was called 'tracking device charge' or something to the like, so if you saw someone, you could tag them and see where they were for the next 2-3 hours. it could add a scouting part to bounty hunting. you go out in an iterceptor or frig and launch a tracking device at someone go back and get you bs, and then procede to blow the crap out of said person. also there could be small medium and large charges for frigates, crusers, and battleships respectivly. perhaps they could stack too, 2 hits stays for 4 hours, 3 for 6 something like that. and then they would have to be very expencive, so someone couldent fit a ship with a bundle of guns and shoot him with like 50.

Skelator
Stronghold corp
CORPVS DELICTI
Posted - 2004.04.27 02:11:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Berilac
Mabye you could get a ammo that was called 'tracking device charge' or something to the like, so if you saw someone, you could tag them and see where they were for the next 2-3 hours. it could add a scouting part to bounty hunting. you go out in an iterceptor or frig and launch a tracking device at someone go back and get you bs, and then procede to blow the crap out of said person. also there could be small medium and large charges for frigates, crusers, and battleships respectivly. perhaps they could stack too, 2 hits stays for 4 hours, 3 for 6 something like that. and then they would have to be very expencive, so someone couldent fit a ship with a bundle of guns and shoot him with like 50.


LOL

I Played Yankee Trader, then Tradewars And Then the best of them all Galactic Warzone...
To make a long story short there was a device called a Tracking Beacon that you could attach to your enemies ship and he could do nothing about it till the charge wore off if i remember right..
Also for mtracking why not borrow a page out of Starwars and have Drones that you send out to areas and their only purpose is to locate your prey..
Give them a short life (1 day) before they self destruct..

Shocked


GardenerOfEden
Deep Space Fishing
Posted - 2004.04.27 12:43:00 - [28]
 

The fundamental problem with bounty hunting atm is that it is illegal - if you accept that the only legal jurisdiction in the EVEverse is empire space policed by CONCORD then you cannot pod kill a pilot to claim a bounty in that jurisdiction without that act of bounty hunting being treated as a crime resulting in a security status hit / CONCORD response. Sure you can pod kill a -5, or worse, sec status pilot but that is because the pilot is classified as an outlaw not because the pilot has a bounty.

It is absolutely ridiculous that you can fly passed a billboard proclaiming the fact that pilot X has a bounty running into the tens of millions of isk, is wanted for crimes against humanity, and see that pilot X right there in space before you and be unable to take any action because pilot Xís security status is something like -1.7 or is even positive.

What is required is a Bounty Hunter Licence that you can acquire from CONCORD at a set price for a set period of time (just like ship insurance) if you have, and maintain, a certain positive security status / standing with CONCORD. You would then be flagged (just like those with bounties) as a licensed bounty hunter legally entitled to pod kill pilots with bounties no matter what the sec status of the solar system or the pilot. The bounty pilot would be able to fight back in non-empire and empire space as they would not be the aggressor and CONCORD would not get involved (just like a corp war). Obviously itís a one-off kill if successful since it wipes the bounty.

I agree that there is also an issue regarding the practicalities of tracking down pilots and forcing PvP but inherent in what you are saying is the issue of how easy it should be for an individual pilot to bounty hunt as compared to a corp / network. Obviously the rewards need to be larger to attract corp / networks and I like the idea of being able to restrict (or pay a bonus to) such groups Ė players would then be more inclined to place larger bounties if they can be confident that the pirate not be able to claim the bounty with an effective suicide. Personally I donít think it should be as easy to bounty hunt solo as what has been suggested in this thread but it should not be impossible and I note in that context that CCP has already flagged the use of tracking beacons in the story Prey Miner.

Viceroy
Posted - 2004.04.27 12:46:00 - [29]
 

Bounty hunting should be illegal imo. Bounty hunters arent "good-guys". They're ambitious fighters that kill people for money. I'm a pirate and I bounty hunt too. So bounty hunting should still be partially illegal imo.

And allowing bounty hunters to kill people in secure systems even if they have a 5k bounty wouldnt be right.

GardenerOfEden
Deep Space Fishing
Posted - 2004.04.27 13:06:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Viceroy
Bounty hunting should be illegal imo. Bounty hunters arent "good-guys". They're ambitious fighters that kill people for money. I'm a pirate and I bounty hunt too. So bounty hunting should still be partially illegal imo.

And allowing bounty hunters to kill people in secure systems even if they have a 5k bounty wouldnt be right.

1. It is not about the bounty hunter it is about the pilot who has the bounty - the bounty has only been able to be placed because the pilot has been bad, probably more than once, and therefore deserves to receive justice regardless of whether it is delivered by a bad bald guy like you or a good bald guy like me Wink

2. The size of the bounty is self balancing - a bounty hunter is less likely to attack a pirate if the bounty was only 5,000 isk, when killing a npc frigate for the same bounty would be easier, but more likely if the bounty was 20,000,000 isk. Those with big bounties should be harder to kill in recognition of the difficulty, risk and the transgression.

3. Under the system I discussed it may be appropriate to change the threshold for placing a bounty if the consequences are more severe but that is a tuning matter only.


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