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Ki An
Gallente
The Really Awesome Players
Posted - 2008.04.22 15:58:00 - [601]
 

Originally by: Ikki Phoenix

I have never said that.
What I am saying is that as long as CCP approves, no one should be any complaining.And I have said this before:
If CCP changes their minds and decide to ban that tool,they will notify the creators of BACON and they will notify the community.And then,and only then,would such a tool be against the EULA,ToS or whatever else.



Why do you persist with the stupid notion that CCP approves of this? In neither of the quoted posts do CCP specifically say "We approve and condone this software". In fact, in one of the posts a dev says "Please don't take this as CCP approval", meaning CCP approval is still pending. All this means that the program IS NOT APPROVED BY CCP at this time.

It's not disapproved either, but stop ****ing saying it's approved when it's not.

Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
Posted - 2008.04.22 15:58:00 - [602]
 

Edited by: Tommy TenKreds on 22/04/2008 16:04:02


Originally by: Ikki Phoenix
What I am saying is that as long as CCP approves, no one should be any complaining.And I have said this before:

Nonsense! We have every right to complain about the use of a tool that is as destructive as BACON.

We do not decide policy, but we can and will complain about the use of tools that violate the EULA and are still under scrutiny.

Originally by: Ikki Phoenix
If CCP changes their minds and decide to ban that tool,they will notify the creators of BACON and they will notify the community.And then,and only then,would such a tool be against the EULA,ToS or whatever else.

In the meantime, a large proportion of the community will continue to signpost why we feel CCP should take action to remove BACON and any similar tool from play.

Would you care to actually discuss the application now, or continue to hide behind CCP's tentative approval as complete validation of it?

Edit: highlighted changed text - I didn't intend to speak for the whole community.. Wink

Ikki Phoenix
Gallente
United Imperial Fleet
Posted - 2008.04.22 15:59:00 - [603]
 

Originally by: Kaimon ValDreth
I agree with you tommy!

Fine for now until otherwise stated-- With this kind of outrage i dont suspect it will last


Yea,agree with you.And this raises another issue:players(not just in Eve,but in other games)not willing to accept new tools,new softwares that improve or provide small advantages to everyone and which are legal.

Enkilil
Minmatar
Thirteen Ninety Three
Posted - 2008.04.22 16:00:00 - [604]
 

This thread is now about bickering and attention whorage.

/discuss.

Dal Thrax
Perkone
Posted - 2008.04.22 16:00:00 - [605]
 

Hum two things spring to mind:

You could aggregate all this information with a central server so that somebody could build a map of real time local in every place that a user is. You could then run this against various KB sites to have a good idea what those pilots are flying...

Couldn't this same technique be used to shout "doomsday" when a titan load grid and starts to fart?


Kaimon ValDreth
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.04.22 16:02:00 - [606]
 

Originally by: Tommy TenKreds
Originally by: Ikki Phoenix
What I am saying is that as long as CCP approves, no one should be any complaining.And I have said this before:

Nonsense! We have every right to complain about the use of a tool that is as destructive as BACON.

We do not decide policy, but we can and will complain about the use of tools that violate the EULA and are still under scrutiny.

Originally by: Ikki Phoenix
If CCP changes their minds and decide to ban that tool,they will notify the creators of BACON and they will notify the community.And then,and only then,would such a tool be against the EULA,ToS or whatever else.

In the meantime, we the community will continue to signpost why we feel CCP should take action to remove BACON and any similar tool from play.

Would you care to actually discuss the application now, or continue to hide behind CCP's tentative approval as complete validation of it?


They don't approve it they have just said its not in violation as of now. Unfortunately damage is already done those that have it will have it forever. CCP would have to rewrite the log server to invalidate it. Even then if there remains a logserver this program or ones like it will still remain.

Ki An
Gallente
The Really Awesome Players
Posted - 2008.04.22 16:02:00 - [607]
 

Originally by: Ikki Phoenix


Yea,agree with you.And this raises another issue:players(not just in Eve,but in other games)not willing to accept new tools,new softwares that improve or provide small advantages to everyone and which are legal.



I can't respond to you without attacking you personally. I am aware of this, but the reason for it is that every post you make is so insanely stupid, that it's impossible not to mock you sensless.

I don't think any of us nay-sayers have trouble accepting new software that gets approved by CCP. We have trouble accepting software that we can easily see is detrimental to the game. BACON is bad for Eve. Software like it is bad for Eve. Macros are bad for Eve. We speak out because we actually care about the game, while you just care about the safety of your pixel ship and the size of your virtual wallet.

Ikki Phoenix
Gallente
United Imperial Fleet
Posted - 2008.04.22 16:04:00 - [608]
 

Originally by: Tommy TenKreds
Originally by: Ikki Phoenix
What I am saying is that as long as CCP approves, no one should be any complaining.And I have said this before:

Nonsense! We have every right to complain about the use of a tool that is as destructive as BACON.

We do not decide policy, but we can and will complain about the use of tools that violate the EULA and are still under scrutiny.

Originally by: Ikki Phoenix
If CCP changes their minds and decide to ban that tool,they will notify the creators of BACON and they will notify the community.And then,and only then,would such a tool be against the EULA,ToS or whatever else.

In the meantime, we the community will continue to signpost why we feel CCP should take action to remove BACON and any similar tool from play.

Would you care to actually discuss the application now, or continue to hide behind CCP's tentative approval as complete validation of it?


Discuss the application?More than willing.I am testing it as we speak and having a few issues uploading a standing list due to my poor coding ability LOL
However,my thinking about the application is very simple( and I have already said that too).For me the application is the equivalent to a military radar and i think that such a tool will open new tactical possibilities.I am not able to describe more because I am working on testing the tool

Skyr
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2008.04.22 16:09:00 - [609]
 

If anything, release of this software will play havoc with eve game play until such time when local is indeed removed.

The removal of local is not guarantee either since one will still be able to monitor choke systems if appropriate events get captured when player appears on the grid. Think a covert parked on choke gate etc. This will work even without local.

There are, however, other less obvious applications of this, and its derivatives, program. One can fairly easily modify it to capture market order dumps and user order dumps and indicate without any manual work (except perhaps to click an item on market shortcut) if the order is still on top.

As far as I know from person experience, others are using this technique for quite some time now.


Ikki Phoenix
Gallente
United Imperial Fleet
Posted - 2008.04.22 16:09:00 - [610]
 

Originally by: Ki An
Originally by: Ikki Phoenix


Yea,agree with you.And this raises another issue:players(not just in Eve,but in other games)not willing to accept new tools,new softwares that improve or provide small advantages to everyone and which are legal.



I can't respond to you without attacking you personally. I am aware of this, but the reason for it is that every post you make is so insanely stupid, that it's impossible not to mock you sensless.

I don't think any of us nay-sayers have trouble accepting new software that gets approved by CCP. We have trouble accepting software that we can easily see is detrimental to the game. BACON is bad for Eve. Software like it is bad for Eve. Macros are bad for Eve. We speak out because we actually care about the game, while you just care about the safety of your pixel ship and the size of your virtual wallet.



No worries,I don't get offended easily :) I have been in the gaming business for a few years to not take anything personal.

If softwares such as BACON are detrimental to the game,CCP will say so and ban it and other similar tools.

White Ronin
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2008.04.22 16:17:00 - [611]
 

Edited by: White Ronin on 22/04/2008 16:18:50
The sound effects are cool actually. YOu can make your own sound files to play when the right people enter the system. Also, the voice is a great touch.

And to those that say this is a violation of the "spirit" of the game, so is running alts as scouts.

Get over it.

Edit - Or two boxing for that matter.
Again, get over it. The "spirit" of eve is win at all costs and screw everyone else if you havent noticed. Maybe you are angry cause Bacon does less screwing and actually helps those being screwed.
As a solo player, this is pure gold.
Thanks guys.

Ikki Phoenix
Gallente
United Imperial Fleet
Posted - 2008.04.22 16:19:00 - [612]
 

Edited by: Ikki Phoenix on 22/04/2008 16:19:49
By the way,if you don't like the BACON,what do you think of the Beetracker read here

Euriti
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.04.22 16:28:00 - [613]
 

Originally by: Ikki Phoenix
Edited by: Ikki Phoenix on 22/04/2008 16:19:49
By the way,if you don't like the BACON,what do you think of the Beetracker read here


I'm against this in all its varieties. CCP should close the loophole making this possible (from a programming point of view)

Ikki Phoenix
Gallente
United Imperial Fleet
Posted - 2008.04.22 16:31:00 - [614]
 

Originally by: Euriti
Originally by: Ikki Phoenix
Edited by: Ikki Phoenix on 22/04/2008 16:19:49
By the way,if you don't like the BACON,what do you think of the Beetracker read here


I'm against this in all its varieties. CCP should close the loophole making this possible (from a programming point of view)


Good,then why not create a thread to demand that against the Goons tool?which by the way is private to the goons.
Why have multiple threads against a publicly released tool that as of now is allowed by CCP,when tools such as the Goons one exists?To me that sounds like double standard.

Buxaroo
Gallente
The Army of The Ori
IMPERIAL LEGI0N
Posted - 2008.04.22 16:34:00 - [615]
 

Wow. Look at all the isk farming carebears in this thread.

I thought EVE was about Darwinism in the making...guess not. You people do know this is a PVP game right?

Euriti
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.04.22 16:37:00 - [616]
 

Originally by: Ikki Phoenix
Originally by: Euriti
Originally by: Ikki Phoenix
Edited by: Ikki Phoenix on 22/04/2008 16:19:49
By the way,if you don't like the BACON,what do you think of the Beetracker read here


I'm against this in all its varieties. CCP should close the loophole making this possible (from a programming point of view)


Good,then why not create a thread to demand that against the Goons tool?which by the way is private to the goons.
Why have multiple threads against a publicly released tool that as of now is allowed by CCP,when tools such as the Goons one exists?To me that sounds like double standard.



A former goon told me he was amazed people still believed beetracker was real and also look around the text, looks like it's done in paint.

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9655/beetrackerth9.jpg

Ikki Phoenix
Gallente
United Imperial Fleet
Posted - 2008.04.22 16:39:00 - [617]
 

Originally by: Euriti
Originally by: Ikki Phoenix
Originally by: Euriti
Originally by: Ikki Phoenix
Edited by: Ikki Phoenix on 22/04/2008 16:19:49
By the way,if you don't like the BACON,what do you think of the Beetracker read here


I'm against this in all its varieties. CCP should close the loophole making this possible (from a programming point of view)


Good,then why not create a thread to demand that against the Goons tool?which by the way is private to the goons.
Why have multiple threads against a publicly released tool that as of now is allowed by CCP,when tools such as the Goons one exists?To me that sounds like double standard.



A former goon told me he was amazed people still believed beetracker was real and also look around the text, looks like it's done in paint.

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9655/beetrackerth9.jpg


That,I have no ways of knowing.I am just getting info posted on forums

Ralagina
Caldari
ReviveX Fleet
White Noise.
Posted - 2008.04.22 16:40:00 - [618]
 

Originally by: Euriti


A former goon told me he was amazed people still believed beetracker was real and also look around the text, looks like it's done in paint.

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9655/beetrackerth9.jpg


It's called "lossy compression".

Vincent S
Republic Military School
Posted - 2008.04.22 16:41:00 - [619]
 

The beetracker isn't real you ******s, it's a huge troll

Enkilil
Minmatar
Thirteen Ninety Three
Posted - 2008.04.22 16:41:00 - [620]
 

Edited by: Enkilil on 22/04/2008 16:43:13
Originally by: Ikki Phoenix

That,I have no ways of knowing.I am just getting info posted on forums


Then why are you still even talking?

You are aware the person with the most posts / responses doesn't 'win', right?

Honestly 21 pages and about 3 1/2 pages of actual content over this crap. Don't you have anything better to do with your life than this? ffs that's pathetic dude.

Ikki Phoenix
Gallente
United Imperial Fleet
Posted - 2008.04.22 16:47:00 - [621]
 

Originally by: Enkilil
Edited by: Enkilil on 22/04/2008 16:43:13
Originally by: Ikki Phoenix

That,I have no ways of knowing.I am just getting info posted on forums


Then why are you still even talking?

You are aware the person with the most posts / responses doesn't 'win', right?

Honestly 21 pages and about 3 1/2 pages of actual content over this crap. Don't you have anything better to do with your life than this? ffs that's pathetic dude.


Trust me,got plenty of things to be doing.
However I also believe in freedom of speech and in the freedom to use any tools and play in anyway allowed by the EULA.And I belive that no one has any business telling a pilot how to play or what tools to use.That is CCP's job and only if the EULA and ToS is broken.

Orion Eridanus
Dark Ashes
Posted - 2008.04.22 17:05:00 - [622]
 

Originally by: CCP Lingorm

Please do not take this as CCP approval


Originally by: CCP Lingorm

Please do not take this as CCP approval


Originally by: CCP Lingorm

Please do not take this as CCP approval


Originally by: CCP Lingorm

Please do not take this as CCP approval


Originally by: CCP Lingorm

Please do not take this as CCP approval



I'll just keep posting this until you people realize CCP has not approved this tool yet. Maybe if I do it enough you'll get it into your heads that CCP has not approved it yet and you'll stop saying CCP has approved it.

GM Grimmi

Posted - 2008.04.22 17:17:00 - [623]
 

Greetings,

The LogServer output is solely intended by CCP as information for developers to help identify and fix bugs. While BACON, and the many similar tools currently used by a large number of players, may technically not be in violation of our EULA/TOS, we frown upon the use of this information for any other purpose and we are currently working on changes to prevent this sort of unintended use of information provided by the LogServer.

Regards,

GM Grimmi
Lead Game Master

Willow Whisp
Sadist Faction
Posted - 2008.04.22 17:21:00 - [624]
 

Originally by: GM Grimmi
Greetings,

The LogServer output is solely intended by CCP as information for developers to help identify and fix bugs. While BACON, and the many similar tools currently used by a large number of players, may technically not be in violation of our EULA/TOS, we frown upon the use of this information for any other purpose and we are currently working on changes to prevent this sort of unintended use of information provided by the LogServer.

Regards,

GM Grimmi
Lead Game Master


\o/

Reuser
Caldari
Gunfleet Logistics
Rogue Method Alliance
Posted - 2008.04.22 17:23:00 - [625]
 

Originally by: GM Grimmi
Greetings,

The LogServer output is solely intended by CCP as information for developers to help identify and fix bugs. While BACON, and the many similar tools currently used by a large number of players, may technically not be in violation of our EULA/TOS, we frown upon the use of this information for any other purpose and we are currently working on changes to prevent this sort of unintended use of information provided by the LogServer.

Regards,

GM Grimmi
Lead Game Master


Glad to finally have some more CCP input on the situation!

A quick question - if CCP has known about "the many similar tools currently used by a large number of players", why has it taken the release of a tool to "level the playing field" as it were, for you to address the problem?


Vanessa Vale
Posted - 2008.04.22 17:24:00 - [626]
 

Originally by: GM Grimmi
Greetings,
we frown upon the use of this information for any other purpose and we are currently working on changes to prevent this sort of unintended use of information provided by the LogServer.



Why.

Apparently a number of big alliances have been using similar tools for quite a while and CCP did nothing. It's only now that it's become known to the general public that you feel the need to address this?

Lord Lycos
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.04.22 17:24:00 - [627]
 

Originally by: GM Grimmi
Greetings,

The LogServer output is solely intended by CCP as information for developers to help identify and fix bugs. While BACON, and the many similar tools currently used by a large number of players, may technically not be in violation of our EULA/TOS, we frown upon the use of this information for any other purpose and we are currently working on changes to prevent this sort of unintended use of information provided by the LogServer.

Regards,

GM Grimmi
Lead Game Master


<3

FireFoxx80
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.04.22 17:30:00 - [628]
 

Edited by: FireFoxx80 on 22/04/2008 17:32:22
Edited by: FireFoxx80 on 22/04/2008 17:32:03
Originally by: GM Grimmi
Greetings,

The LogServer output is solely intended by CCP as information for developers to help identify and fix bugs. While BACON, and the many similar tools currently used by a large number of players, may technically not be in violation of our EULA/TOS, we frown upon the use of this information for any other purpose and we are currently working on changes to prevent this sort of unintended use of information provided by the LogServer.

Regards,

GM Grimmi
Lead Game Master


Grimmi,

Will this change also stop the many tools which look directly into the MachoNet cache folder? As the LogServer and the cache folder store the data in an almost identical format, preventing access to LogServer will just move people to look at the cache instead.

See this thread for exactly what I am talking about.

Edit: if you frown upon it's use, and intend to prevent access in the future; why not make it a breach of the EULA/TOS to use tools like this? It'd be far quicker.

Thanks,
FireFoxx80

Niccolado Starwalker
Gallente
Shadow Templars
Posted - 2008.04.22 17:33:00 - [629]
 

Originally by: GM Grimmi
Greetings,

The LogServer output is solely intended by CCP as information for developers to help identify and fix bugs. While BACON, and the many similar tools currently used by a large number of players, may technically not be in violation of our EULA/TOS, we frown upon the use of this information for any other purpose and we are currently working on changes to prevent this sort of unintended use of information provided by the LogServer.

Regards,

GM Grimmi
Lead Game Master


Then please oh please OUTLAW it!

Honestly, this is as close you can get a macro program! It directly interfers with game play! Its a automated program that is able to warn players based on the log servers rather then player input! It is so wrong in so many ways!

It simply breaches everything the game is all about!


Ki An
Gallente
The Really Awesome Players
Posted - 2008.04.22 17:35:00 - [630]
 

Originally by: GM Grimmi
Greetings,

The LogServer output is solely intended by CCP as information for developers to help identify and fix bugs. While BACON, and the many similar tools currently used by a large number of players, may technically not be in violation of our EULA/TOS, we frown upon the use of this information for any other purpose and we are currently working on changes to prevent this sort of unintended use of information provided by the LogServer.

Regards,

GM Grimmi
Lead Game Master


Thank you for your reply. Hopefully this cannot be misconstrued as CCP approval of BACON.


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