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Dragonora
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2008.04.17 22:01:00 - [1]
 

Everyday a Alliance or Corporation is open for attack based on stealing intell or Equipment , who to trust is what you know. A Anti-Spy requires some walls you must keep up. Many should know this, but to keep those that don't know how to keep spies out.

Since that W A S T E L A N D [WASTE] made it noticeable that they can spy, but how well? there is too many ways to keep them out. Large alliances with many Corporations should understand that one can messup a hole Corporation or Alliance into changing their ways if they learn they are being spied on.

When Recruiting you ALWAYS, yes ALWAYS do these things:
-Never Spam, get those that are looking a corporation when they ask it in recruitment chat. Never accept people that send in random
-ask for their API Key/user ID and use Evemon to check it and the other accounts. most of the time they will have a alt account to keep them form being noticed, and the Key can be changed after you check it.
-Check the time of the character and Quiz them, ask them questions, if they act odd or too smart, that gives them away.
-Never Recruit during War unless its completely unnoticed who is recruiting

When Recruiting Corps you always do the following:
-make sure you ask about their activity, make sure they are telling the turth and make sure what their alliance history and ceo's history. if you see red lines being passed, deny them
-if they promise too much, act like they can do alot and have only a few members they are not a real corp
-ask for all API Keys and User IDs and check them. bingo you got the intell you need.

For current members:
-make sure they are them, and not some random alt, make sure they use voice or other communication.
-keep them form recruiting others unless they know how to recruit.
-during war, make sure all your members are not saying stuff, make sure that you have a close friend or alt is in the corp or alliance and feed you info to find out that if someone is going to be a spy or a traitor.
- ask for the their info asap

nomorelies is just getting a big head doing this and spies them selfs have a limit. Patch your Holes and keep it secure. make sure to do the following and keep spies out and members in.

CCP Mitnal


Minmatar
C C P
Posted - 2008.04.18 01:03:00 - [2]
 

Moved to CAOD.

DigitalCommunist
Gallente
November Corporation
Posted - 2008.04.18 01:36:00 - [3]
 

I think I've circumvented every one of those precautions, or known others who have. You can't keep spies out of your corp if you recruit, period, but you can keep them out of your head.

Most of the damage spies do is psychological and the rest is trivial to any good corp. If you're smart, you'll realize it works both ways even if you don't bother with spying.

Sopha Serpentia
Caldari
Core Dynamics
Posted - 2008.04.18 07:46:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Sopha Serpentia on 18/04/2008 07:45:53
Originally by: Dragonora


-ask for their API Key/user ID and use Evemon to check it and the other accounts. most of the time they will have a alt account to keep them form being noticed, and the Key can be changed after you check it.

-ask for all API Keys and User IDs and check them. bingo you got the intell you need.




I disagree with the whole post, I don't think anything you have suggested is helpful and can even put people in the hands of scammers.

1. NEVER EVER give your API out to anyone you don't know. Just because someone starts a corporation does not mean the have been blessed with special powers, or are actual authority figures. Some corps have been started with the sole purpose of scamming thier members.

2. NEVER EVER give your account name to anyone, ever. Its almost as bad as giving out your password. Once someone has you account name, they are 50% of the way to accessing your account.

A real spy would never allow themselves to get caught with any of the ways that have been suggested. Even the OP suggest that a spy would have an alternative account. Fact is if people want to spy on you, they will and theres not much you can do about it besides limiting access of information to new members. You can ofcourse set traps to catch spies, but who'd bother.

EnslaverOfMinmatar
Amarr
BRAPELILLE MACRO BOT MINERS
Posted - 2008.04.18 07:52:00 - [5]
 

You can bribe existing members of the corporation (who are 100% not spies, as verified by their leadership) to spy for you. Mwhahahahaah

Mark Starkiller
Caldari
Spricer
Raiden.
Posted - 2008.04.18 08:46:00 - [6]
 

Everybody who posted in this thread is a spy, except me!!!

.

Raul Rincon
Caldari
Blue Republic
Posted - 2008.04.18 09:14:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Raul Rincon on 18/04/2008 09:14:14
Spy sappin' mah sentry!

Volarius
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.04.18 09:16:00 - [8]
 

I suspect there is a spy in my alliance, what should I do?

Cazius
Gallente
Horizon.Inc
Posted - 2008.04.18 09:22:00 - [9]
 

This post has been cleared of inappropriate content.

Regards,
The EVE Online Moderation team

5n4keyes
Caldari
Sacred Templars
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2008.04.18 10:44:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Volarius
I suspect there is a spy in my alliance, what should I do?



remove your roles and leave quietly Wink

Krystian
Caldari
Clown Punchers.
Clown Punchers Syndicate
Posted - 2008.04.18 11:47:00 - [11]
 

Got some valid points. Here's some things to add to the list -

Arrow When you interview pretend your doing interrogation/job interview

Arrow Screen shot of their wallet showing player donations.

Arrow Ask fellow corp or alliance mates if they heard or seen this person before (corp or alliance mail)

Arrow Ask if they have any alts, get a ss of their login character selection and search each name on eve-o and google it. See if they have fishy behavior or been reported as spies or thiefs.

Arrow Convo past CEO's of the applicant and ask if they had any trouble (also pry a little into their corp history to see how many times they jumped to corps)

Arrow Tell them you will give them 24 hours with final choice.

Arrow Trust your gut instinct. If it seems to good or fishy - dont recruit the person.

Arrow Talk to them on voice comms (vent, teamspeak) and get to know the person. Unless they are deaf they need to either buy a mic or dont bother joining.

Arrow Once recruited watch their behaviour and movements closely. Make sure their not afk allot or acting odd (logging in and weird hours, not showing up to corp ops etc).

Arrow Wait at least a month before assiging anything but the most basic of roles.

All said and done you cant weed out spies 100%. The above we keep the lazy and stupid ones out but not the clever ones. Those clever ones sneak in thru other corps in your alliance if your being vigiliant and might even get into your corp. Just keep an eye on the new guy is best you can do.



Volarius
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.04.18 12:50:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: 5n4keyes
Originally by: Volarius
I suspect there is a spy in my alliance, what should I do?



remove your roles and leave quietly Wink


Is destiny recruiting? ugh

Mik kyo
Minmatar
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.04.18 12:50:00 - [13]
 

Good tips, if employed these will keep out the weekend warriors alt accounts... but little more.

Mavolio
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2008.04.18 15:17:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Sopha Serpentia
1. NEVER EVER give your API out to anyone you don't know. Just because someone starts a corporation does not mean the have been blessed with special powers, or are actual authority figures. Some corps have been started with the sole purpose of scamming thier members.


Ok, lets make up some information so you can back this up:-
i have 2 char's on my account called Simon and Ted, Simon has 10million isk and Ted has 100million isk. Simon has mostly combat skills and currently training gunnery lvl 5 and Ted has no skills at all past what a new char has.

Please explain from that information how you would ever scam some one.


Originally by: Sopha Serpentia
2. NEVER EVER give your account name to anyone, ever. Its almost as bad as giving out your password. Once someone has you account name, they are 50% of the way to accessing your account.


More general OMG THE SKY IS FALLING!! not knowing how the system works. In order to look at the limited API information you need User ID and API Key. User ID isn't the same as Username its close but rly isn't the same. User ID is for your API information Username is to log into EvE. (also its alot more than 50% its more like 27,000 times easier if your password and username was 10 char's long used only char's and numbers and was completly random)

Dragonora
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2008.04.18 15:25:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Sopha Serpentia
Edited by: Sopha Serpentia on 18/04/2008 07:45:53
Originally by: Dragonora


-ask for their API Key/user ID and use Evemon to check it and the other accounts. most of the time they will have a alt account to keep them form being noticed, and the Key can be changed after you check it.

-ask for all API Keys and User IDs and check them. bingo you got the intell you need.




I disagree with the whole post, I don't think anything you have suggested is helpful and can even put people in the hands of scammers.

1. NEVER EVER give your API out to anyone you don't know. Just because someone starts a corporation does not mean the have been blessed with special powers, or are actual authority figures. Some corps have been started with the sole purpose of scamming thier members.

2. NEVER EVER give your account name to anyone, ever. Its almost as bad as giving out your password. Once someone has you account name, they are 50% of the way to accessing your account.

A real spy would never allow themselves to get caught with any of the ways that have been suggested. Even the OP suggest that a spy would have an alternative account. Fact is if people want to spy on you, they will and theres not much you can do about it besides limiting access of information to new members. You can ofcourse set traps to catch spies, but who'd bother.


one you can change your API at anytime, once you show them once and its oked you can change it, quessing a Key is very hard to do. it is regenerated so there is no harm. this never gives an account name nor password only account names, if they are similar thats your problem.

so I am stating "ONCE SEE THEN CHANGE KEY, JUST PRESS THE BUTTON AGAIN"

Dragonora
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2008.04.18 15:29:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Volarius
I suspect there is a spy in my alliance, what should I do?



if you know the one that is a spy contact the ceo of the corp and warn him, if there is no change,more reason for that corp to not stay within the alliance.

Dragonora
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2008.04.18 15:30:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Mik kyo
Good tips, if employed these will keep out the weekend warriors alt accounts... but little more.


thanks, use this wisdom and keep it in mind

Dragonora
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2008.04.18 15:32:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Mavolio
Originally by: Sopha Serpentia
1. NEVER EVER give your API out to anyone you don't know. Just because someone starts a corporation does not mean the have been blessed with special powers, or are actual authority figures. Some corps have been started with the sole purpose of scamming thier members.


Ok, lets make up some information so you can back this up:-
i have 2 char's on my account called Simon and Ted, Simon has 10million isk and Ted has 100million isk. Simon has mostly combat skills and currently training gunnery lvl 5 and Ted has no skills at all past what a new char has.

Please explain from that information how you would ever scam some one.


Originally by: Sopha Serpentia
2. NEVER EVER give your account name to anyone, ever. Its almost as bad as giving out your password. Once someone has you account name, they are 50% of the way to accessing your account.


More general OMG THE SKY IS FALLING!! not knowing how the system works. In order to look at the limited API information you need User ID and API Key. User ID isn't the same as Username its close but rly isn't the same. User ID is for your API information Username is to log into EvE. (also its alot more than 50% its more like 27,000 times easier if your password and username was 10 char's long used only char's and numbers and was completly random)


Yep, thats how it works, how nice of you to place it.

Varus Riaz
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.04.18 15:48:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Varus Riaz on 18/04/2008 15:50:00
It's just very important not to get overly paranoid about spies. Be wary, but don't go absolutely nuts about spies because chances are that most decent sized entities and every alliance worthy of note has spies in it.

It's suprising how rumors of spies affect an alliance. It can get to the point where all the corps refuse to interact at all with one another for fear of a spy. This in turn makes them easy targets.

EnslaverOfMinmatar
Amarr
BRAPELILLE MACRO BOT MINERS
Posted - 2008.04.18 19:19:00 - [20]
 

IF YOU'RE A CEO, DON'T READ THIS POST

You can also eve-mail the CEO of the target corp, and tell him there is a GHSC operative in his corp. You don't know who is it, but most likely it's someone who was there for 6+ months and is one of the top members. Imagine the panic and the cleansing of the ranks that will follow mwhahahahahahaah :P

Amastat
Caldari
Blue Ring Defence
Posted - 2008.04.18 20:18:00 - [21]
 

For those who disagree with the original post - well I disagree that you disagree :D

Spies are everywhere, but may be less a issue for smaller low profile groups - but can be a big deal in large groups, and they are very widespread. Most major alliances, including Goonswarm, and even BoB, make extensive use of spy chains.

If you didn't know about that you should just leave this thread now before making a troll comment because your ignorance is throbbing.

The issue with security officers (and I have been one before) is that it's like any other system - you cannot be 100% efficient. It also becomes increasingly difficult to keep spies out, no matter what methods you may take to keep them out, if your corporation or alliance is being literally bombarded with infiltration attempts. At least one spy will get through.

So what do you do?

We'll if they make there way in you take the secondary measure - you monitor them. Just keep a eye on them, in the least keep them from making a move which could potentially hurt your corporation or allinace. If you have teh power, remove them before they can attempt any sabatoge.

You need to be incredibly fair with everything and be incredibly thorough with investigations however - otherwise your 'security' will more-so divide corporation members because everyones so uptight about spies and fingers being pointed.

I did more than security however, I actually did some espionage myself. There is 3 types of spies in my book: Saboteurs, Corruptors, and Moles.

Saboteurs will infiltrate and then gain measures or take measures to sabotage and hopefully severely hurt the target group. One of the most common forms of damage done by Saboteurs is ISK/asset theft, or in rare occasions actually shutting POS's down and dismantling defenses. I personally have pulled this off on a enemy corporation before in a war and we pretty much crippled them - we eliminated half of there assets, and defected several of there members to our side as well. These are specialized agents you could say and are not often used - they are the least used agent form overall most likely.

Corruptors incite rabble-rousing, cause discontent, and fights - literally these agents divide and break up the target, or at least cause disarray and failure of communications. This is not easy to do though and only corporations with weak or absent leadership are truly vulnerable to this attack. Corruptors will use any means to achieve this goal, wither their attempts are out of cold-blood or they actually have some justified meaning. Corruptors are probably the second most used agent involved in major alliance spy-chains.

Moles are just information agents. We keep a low profile and make sure our target is completely unaware of our true intentions. These are the most hard to route out and long-term spies that will slowly feed information to enemies. Moles probably the majority spy involved in major alliance spy-chains.

EnslaverOfMinmatar
Amarr
BRAPELILLE MACRO BOT MINERS
Posted - 2008.04.18 20:42:00 - [22]
 

You could also join an alliance with your own titan, then DD their fleet and leave. :P

PMBhauler
Caldari
Pod Me Beautiful
Posted - 2008.04.18 21:08:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: PMBhauler on 18/04/2008 21:10:55
A couple more things to think about doing

When you have their temp api key and identify their alts.

-Do a search for character name on Eve-O / Scrapheap. View their posting habits and see if a particular alt writes alt posts in suport of one of your enemies.

Look up each alt in http://eve-kb.com/index.php. View past kills and losses and location. Alot of spy alts have been used as either cynos or noob scouts in enemy territories.

Just a couple thoughts

Zephyr Rengate
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.04.18 22:35:00 - [24]
 

Best way is to ask if they are a spy. Generally EvE players are honest people at heart and they will answer truthfully.

Conq Er
Caldari
Lucky Traders ltd
Posted - 2008.04.19 00:01:00 - [25]
 


Sacul
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2008.04.19 00:26:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Volarius
I suspect there is a spy in my alliance, what should I do?



wth?!!! what am i paying u for v0l? vette kip. Back to ghsc and kuguts school of 733t spying Mister. Rolling Eyes

Jim Linger
Minmatar
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.04.19 01:41:00 - [27]
 

I would just like to point out that I had 2 spies with < 1mil sp in wasteland during the war where 2 small corps completely obliterated them and forced them to disband, and they generally had no idea what was going on. I guess CCP likes supporting small corps regardless of the actual story.

I would like to make two points:
1. API KEY API KEY API KEY
2. If said spy is a paid for account, you are defenseless (assuming you recruit publicly)

Amastat
Caldari
Blue Ring Defence
Posted - 2008.04.19 02:05:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Zephyr Rengate
Best way is to ask if they are a spy. Generally EvE players are honest people at heart and they will answer truthfully.


Right - I'll believe that statement when you give me 1 billion ISK. I promise I'll give you 2 billion back - as a act of good will.

Xaldor
Caldari
Terror Australis Incorporated Limited
Posted - 2008.04.19 04:42:00 - [29]
 

I don't think the API info will do any good, anyone who is an active/effective spy will probably have an account dedicated to it.

There is nothing wrong with recruiting during war-time, it comes down to the flow of information. You need a chain of command that you are comfortable with, that you can trust and the flow of information has to be on a need-to-know basis. If someone new to the corp/alliance is getting hold of sensitive information or has access to anything then you have bigger issues.

I think the large majority of spies are those that have had a falling out with their corp/alliance and like a jilted lover they know how to hurt you better than any newcomer that comes along.

Itzena
Amarr
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.04.19 11:45:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Dragonora
:words:

It's you. You're the spy in the OP.


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